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Carrick game has regressed to the point where is now a liability, anyone who is unable to see that needs to go to spec savers 

from experinece i can tell you that this group would have been given ample time, and clear instruction on what it needed to do to ensure it continued. Head in the sand syndrome

some things need to understood before discussion moves on, just to stop BS. Joe O'kane does not want to play county football, that is a well known fact. Johnny Bradley also doesn't want to play. He told me himself whan i asked him was he never asked unto the count one night in Glen club. His job as a games analysis sems to interfer. Pinny not even a cousin of an intercounty, also he is seriously injured. lets not thrown out names that have been used or played before, IMo its pointless

I believe that Derry will struggle for a while before its improves, and i base this on a number of things
1. We don't have the players, and I can't see how anyone who has knowledge on derry football could argue differently. The quality of club football has seriously declined, particularly in the past three/four years and its now that it is beginning to actually show.
2. We have had no undergae success for a long time, and especially at u21, which is more reflective of how many players are actually close to senior county ability. Down are in an senior final, did it come from no where, bollox, they have won Ulster u21 in 05, 08, 09 being closely beaten in the All Ireland final last year. Pete Mc Grath knew Down were turning the corner and explains why he went for the job. Kildare won the u21's under Glen Ryan a few years ago, in other words evidence of a number of teams or quality players emerging. derry are not Kerry, we need successful underage teams to allow us to have a successful senior team
3. can any Derry poster tell me who might be our full back, please do, cause I can't see it, who is our midfilders, don't talk about the current one's, there not good enough for a winning Ulster c'ship team, full of effort but the quality is tripe, none can score, and that element mising from midfield play is really hurting Derry. Perhaps Kevein O'Neill may step up, and i do hope so, but I serious doubt his phyically strenght to play in this area never mind the desire
4. Our senior players ie Mc Cloy, Doherty, Muldoon, paddy Bradley are all over the hill and are on the downward slope, there peformances with the exception of muldoon have been consistantly poor the past 2 yrs in the big games Derry have played. Worst still is that none of them are leaders on the pitch (Muldoon excluded), and when derry need that player to step up in the games they are chasing, bang they are no where to be seen.
5. In the absense of obvious leaders at this minute, who do we look to, Gerard O'kane, a player who was made captain this yr and it looks like he struggled with the responsibility. Eoin Brdaley, phew. Barry Mc Goldrick (possibly), Mark Lynch, maybe, this has been his best year in a Derry jersry.
6. We have not put back to back wins in the Ulster c'ship in tens years, that tells anyone with half a brain that the players are not good enough, even with a bad manager, the law of averages will have pervailed to break that duct over a ten year period

In summary my assessment maybe pessimistic, but Lynchboy is corrct when he says that we very close to the teams in dividion one in result terms. He is wrong in saying division 4 teams could have beaten us, we lost in the c'ship to Kildare, in a game where derry created a serious amount of untaken scoring chances,so perhaps there is more potential than i think, but I will go back to point 3 and 4.

I would really like to see Brennan get the job.

Lets have a decent debate on this as the derry thread is now useless for debate. Glad you started this on a new thread.

That was a real turn up for the books, with the Ogs getting beaten, didn't expect that. Cross cant have gone back that far as for them not to be favourites, especially with their record.

[that's not relevant right now]

That is savage. As someone said she shouldn't have been out but that's not relevant right now, the fact is what happened to the poor wee child. God love her.

That's the bit that really annying me. The ammount of people who have the whole case summed up and the parents blamed based on the report that she informed he parents she would be back in a few minutes and that it was late at night. It seems to have taken over everything else.

annoyed, more puzzled?

absolutely shocking and it makes me sick.

Also

At around midnight, she told her parents she was going out for a while on her bicycle and would be back shortly

Life has changed since I was 12. My parents would have kicked my arse down to my room.

your right, what parent with half a brian cell would let their kid of 12 go out on their bike at midnight FFS. Surely there has to be more to this part of the story

Apart from your half forward line don't think Down are that far ahead of Armagh. Down got the better deal on the manager side.

Down have had players coming though a few years but McCartan has been able to make it gel. People have talked about Derry having players coming through for a few years but it has never materialised.

Bit jealous myself but will be cheering the boys in Red ( sorry yellow) against Cork

Derry haven't many players coming through the past while, no minor since 02 and nothing at the most important age group in years for u21's. Down won the Ulster u21 in 05, 08 and 09, that means that you have a number of quality young players coming through. James has obviously made his mark, but something was happening in Down whenever wee Pete Mc Grath wanted the hot seat again.

hughes an excellent chb- i'd keep him there !

He is an excellent Centre Half Back and I'd leave him there too Lynch boy! A big attacking option.
I don't think he's as tall as Clerkin Duffle king, certainly not as strong or physical and I don't think he'd be big enough for MidField Konica, not yet. I think he's only about 24 too, so time on his side.

But there is no doubt Monaghan do seem to struggle around the middle - against Tyrone and Kildare they were cleaned out - especially against Kildare. 

Will be interesting tosee what banty decides!

Kildare are strong in midfield, very strong, they cleaned derry out in that sector also, and as with the monaghan game and derry game it dictated the result. Kildare won have won by a bagful only for taking Early off.

[2. I hope Mr Hughes doesn't get a game again this summer after the decision on the penalty in the first half, to give a free out was criminal; I just don't rate him as a ref, he is frustrating at a game, he is likely to let an elbow to the face go then give a free for someone brining the ball two inces forward.]

1. The better team won; Cork have better footballers and should have the game closed out well before the penalty. Limerick did not play as well as they did in the Munster final.
2. I hope Mr Hughes doesn't get a game again this summer after the decision on the penalty in the first half, to give a free out was criminal; I just don't rate him as a ref, he is frustrating at a game, he is likely to let an elbow to the face go then give a free for someone brining the ball two inces forward. 3. The game was awful, actually the three game were muck yesterday but Limerick v Cork kept the interest until the end due to the score.
4. Write Cork off at your peril remember '09 (Kerry v Longford; Sligo & Antrim) '08 Tyrone v Mayo; '07 Kerry v Monaghan; '06 Kerry v Cork Munsfer final replay. The object of these game is to get through them, Cork are in the hat tomorrow and I do not want to draw them.
5. I have to agree with Kerry Mike - the CCCC should be reviewing the game; some of the Cork hits were high to me - especially one from Nicholas Murphy but if a head butt and a hurley to the 'lower regions' were not reviewed last week them Cork have nothing to fear.

Roll on next weekend....

I thought that Hughes was so poor, how was it not highlighted more on the Sunday game. Apart from the obvious penalty, he gave so many yellow cards i was almost expecting a players to hit him out of pure frustration. What a tube of a ref!!!!

JM I like many derry supporters was a surprised as anyone with Paddy getting dropped. I remember reading in some thread somewhere prior to the Carlow game where some poster was predicting that Bradley was going to get dropped, I called him a WUM, but he had the inside track it seems.  My personal thoughts are he should still be there and he should have had the balls that Mc Guckian had, who incidently was excellent at the weekend. I have asked two players that I know reasonably well, and without them obviously not wanting to say to much about it, said that they had no quams about him getting dropped as his attitude in training and the game agianst Donegal was very poor, he didn't play in the Longford game. If it was personal would the brother still be involved- no chance. Also its worth noting that Bradley has played very poorly for Derry and Glenullin this year, his conditioning is poor and his performances have reflected it. All players are entitled to play poorly, they can't play top draw football all the time, but when there forms dips they should be big enough to put the team first

my guess would be:

gillis
ogie mcguckian mcbride
okane b mcgoldrick sean leo
diver, your man from d'given. cant mine his name
kielt, lynch, e brown
crook, muldoon, e bradley

e brown, your r a wum, and no PB

Saw a cracking debate on TV last night between Ian Paisley jnr and (I think) Jim Alister....... boy do they despise each other. Magnificent stuff. The SFer and SDLP lads also went at each other but not a patch on the other two.

The host couldn't control them at all. Have to say IP Jnr didn't come out of it too bad.

seen it also, and I tell you if I lived in the north antrim area I would vote DUP to try and make sure that header didn't get in. A dino of hate if ever I saw one.

Saw Green Zone at the weekend and thought it was good movie. Its all about the lies surrounding weapons of mass destruction