https://www.boylesports.com/sports/gaa/outrights
Kerry 2/1
Dublin 11/4
Galway 6/1
Derry 15/2
Mayo 15/2
Tyrone 16/1
Armagh 20/1
Donegal 25/1
Cork 33/1
KE/MN/RN 66/1
Paddy Power Each Way: 1/2 Odds, 2 Places
Kerry 15/8
Dublin 11/4
Galway 6/1
Derry 7/1
Mayo 8/1
Tyrone 16/1
Armagh 22/1
Donegal 25/1
Cork 50/1
Monaghan 50/1
Roscommon 50/1
The each way might be interesting, although the structure of the draw is less clear than of old.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 06:08:24 PMPaddy Power Each Way: 1/2 Odds, 2 Places
Kerry 15/8
Dublin 11/4
Galway 6/1
Derry 7/1
Mayo 8/1
Tyrone 16/1
Armagh 22/1
Donegal 25/1
Cork 50/1
Monaghan 50/1
Roscommon 50/1
The each way might be interesting, although the structure of the draw is less clear than of old.
Same order
Donegal the biggest movers. They were 50 and 60/1 before Jim McGuinness was appointed.
How many teams on that list would you say could realistically win it?
Truthfully two.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:08:54 AMTruthfully two.
Probably correct. Another 1 of the next 3 could do it with a bit of a run, form and belief.
Galway were poor last year. I am not sure they would be at that level at all. Mayo either tbh. Derry maybe.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:08:54 AMTruthfully two.
Well it depends on those two. If Dublin are motivated, only Kerry can stop them. If Clifford stays injury free, only Dublin can stop them.
But should it transpire that in terms of application and intent, 2022 was actually Dublin's denouement, and perhaps Clifford endures a few injury problems, it would leave the AI wide open, to the point that any of those 11 listed teams could win it.
I think there are a number of teams that can realistically win sam. It would take the rub of the green but say if the top 2 meet in a semi final, then the likes of Derry, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Galway would all fancy their chances in a 1 off game in the final. Honestly
Quote from: samuel maguire on November 07, 2023, 09:42:01 AMI think there are a number of teams that can realistically win sam. It would take the rub of the green but say if the top 2 meet in a semi final, then the likes of Derry, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Galway would all fancy their chances in a 1 off game in the final. Honestly
Id be hesitant to throw Donegal in with the rest there but I otherwise agree. Weve seen always of these sides give the big dogs a run for their money in the last few years and ultimately just fall short on the big day.
I'll be most interested to see Armagh. When you look at how narrow their defeats have been these past two seasons and how stacked with talent they are, youd have to fear meeting them in an AI semi. Armagh E/W could be a good bet.
Maybe if they got a new manager and the subsequent bounce but with mcgeeney they're going absolutely nowhere.
The draw for ulster has been very kind to them again so maybe they'll get over the line with that this year
It's the Last Dance for this Armagh panel in my opinion. Yes it's a favourable draw in Ulster but we've a habit of making a mess of that. Yes they have had lots of very tight losses in the last 2 years but the reality is, top sides grind out wins when it is in the melting pot. I would be pleasantly surprised if we were near an AI semi final.
Quote from: samuel maguire on November 07, 2023, 09:42:01 AMI think there are a number of teams that can realistically win sam. It would take the rub of the green but say if the top 2 meet in a semi final, then the likes of Derry, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Galway would all fancy their chances in a 1 off game in the final. Honestly
Agreed. Galway almost caught Kerry in 2022. Derry, Mayo, Armagh, Galway, Tyrone etc all not a million miles away from each other and capable of beating each other. Would take Dublin and Kerry to meet in a semi though. Any of the above would definitely fancy their chances in a final if they got there and anything can happen on the day. If Clifford was to get injured Kerry drop way back into that pack as they are very reliant on him.
I know you've mentioned Donegal, remains to be seen if Jimmy can get them back up a level tbh.
Galway are the only team in the chasing pack with Final experience.
They had a lot of injuries in 2023 plus Silke and Molloy were missing. If everyone is fit they have a great chance.
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2023, 10:36:46 AMGalway are the only team in the chasing pack with Final experience.
They had a lot of injuries in 2023 plus Silke and Molloy were missing. If everyone is fit they have a great chance.
I honestly wouldn't put Galway ahead of any of the others. I think on their day they could all beat each other. Maybe i am being biased but for me Derry, Galway and Armagh would be a tiny it ahead of the Tyrones, Donegals etc
As soon as Comer is injured they're stuffed and he seems to be getting more injury prone. Walsh would need to find form again. Playing for Kilmacaud and not getting a rest likely not helping.
Of the chasing pack I think that Derry will be best placed. There was obviously alot of turmoil going on in the background last year and Harte being there should increase belief with a hungry manager who has experience of winning multiple all irelands.
Quote from: statto on November 07, 2023, 11:21:22 AMOf the chasing pack I think that Derry will be best placed. There was obviously alot of turmoil going on in the background last year and Harte being there should increase belief with a hungry manager who has experience of winning multiple all irelands.
He needs to find a few new players.
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2023, 12:13:25 PMQuote from: statto on November 07, 2023, 11:21:22 AMOf the chasing pack I think that Derry will be best placed. There was obviously alot of turmoil going on in the background last year and Harte being there should increase belief with a hungry manager who has experience of winning multiple all irelands.
He needs to find a few new players.
Quite a number of new call ups afaik, hopefully a few gems maybe!
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2023, 10:36:46 AMGalway are the only team in the chasing pack with Final experience.
They had a lot of injuries in 2023 plus Silke and Molloy were missing. If everyone is fit they have a great chance.
2021 - remind me
Can't see Harte working out for Derry. He will likely be too conservative for a core of players that looked to be on the brink of overcoming a lack of gun forwards, by everyone chipping in.
Galway were wiped top to bottom with injuries last year. They've got the size and athleticism to match the big two. They just need a (pretty) clean bill of health among their forwards.
That Derry squad has peaked, id expect them to drop 10 - 15% from last year. You cant rely on the same small core group of players over & over again. They've been very fortunate with injuries and form in the last couple of years. The definition of a side punching above their weight. Disasterous move for Harte
Lengthy injury for the keeper lynch by all accounts.
Hand on heart hard to see Donegal match the top teams. McGuniness will take them on and get them in the best place they can be expected to get for sure, but I don't think they have the quality or depth to compete.
Derry with Harte could go either way in my head. It could be the extra experience needed to push on, or his own style of play may not suite that group of players.
Galway know they have a good team and, luck with injuries and a bit of form, will safely be the third best team able to complete with the top 2.
Tyrone and Armagh, as I mentioned last year, to much Jekyll and Hyde. On a good day they can compete, on a bad day they look inept. Form is everything for these two teams. Hit a bit of form, and they can cause any team headaches.
Yeah I would think the same. Derry could go either way under Harte and Tyrone / Armagh just aren't at that level these days. Tyrone will really miss Mattie Donnelly if he's not back or if he is hard to see him get back to the same level.
Galway have loads of very good players but has meant nothing thus far.
Donegal have one of the best keepers in ireland, probably the best in my opinion - Patton
Defensively is where Jim excels, rest assured Jimmy will have the defense water tight. take it as given
Donegal have the best selection of midfielders in Ulster. Lots of big tree's! Jason McGee, McFadden ferry, Hugh mcFadden, McGonagle etc
IF they can get their best forwards fit and on the field of play at the same time, they will be a force for sure. Murphy static at 14. Oisin Gallen, McBrearty, Daire Ó Baoill, Jamie brennan, peadar mogan...
They had some cracking young forwards in their u20 side back in 2022. McGettigan was one name i remember
Jim McGuinness isnt back unless he see's something and believes in it....! If i was Derry i would be fearful
Quote from: God14 on November 07, 2023, 01:54:00 PMThat Derry squad has peaked, id expect them to drop 10 - 15% from last year. You cant rely on the same small core group of players over & over again. They've been very fortunate with injuries and form in the last couple of years. The definition of a side punching above their weight. Disasterous move for Harte
Lengthy injury for the keeper lynch by all accounts.
Zzz.... In Mickey Harte we trust
As long as Derry get to the All Ireland series that is fine with me, I think some Derry fans are forgetting how poor Derry have been for 18 years. Even if Derry get beat in a QF it is a successful season.
I just would like to see Derry give Armagh another sickener in the Ulster final and beat Tyrone in the semi obviously. I've spent too long reading comments from Armagh and Tyrone people online and I have bitterness towards them.
Quote from: NormPeterson on November 07, 2023, 05:06:04 PMAs long as Derry get to the All Ireland series that is fine with me, I think some Derry fans are forgetting how poor Derry have been for 18 years. Even if Derry get beat in a QF it is a successful season.
I just would like to see Derry give Armagh another sickener in the Ulster final and beat Tyrone in the semi obviously. I've spent too long reading comments from Armagh and Tyrone people online and I have bitterness towards them.
I don't care what happens us next year as long as we don't get beat on penalties lol.
Genuinely have always got on the best with any Derry person I've met in person, only bitterness I see is online. (And Brolly depending on what mood he's in).
At least we can both agree we want Tyrone bate lol
Quote from: God14 on November 07, 2023, 03:24:02 PMDonegal have one of the best keepers in ireland, probably the best in my opinion - Patton
Defensively is where Jim excels, rest assured Jimmy will have the defense water tight. take it as given
Donegal have the best selection of midfielders in Ulster. Lots of big tree's! Jason McGee, McFadden ferry, Hugh mcFadden, McGonagle etc
IF they can get their best forwards fit and on the field of play at the same time, they will be a force for sure. Murphy static at 14. Oisin Gallen, McBrearty, Daire Ó Baoill, Jamie brennan, peadar mogan...
They had some cracking young forwards in their u20 side back in 2022. McGettigan was one name i remember
Jim McGuinness isnt back unless he see's something and believes in it....! If i was Derry i would be fearful
100%. Will be a very interesting Ulster Championship, well 1 side of the draw any road
None of those midfielders are fantastic though. They're all ok but no real out and out stars there. Is murphy back? Gallen could be very good but not sure mcbrearty top level at county any more.
I honestly don't care if Donegal beat us in Ulster. Our side of the draw is a minefield sure to include injury along with physically and emotionally sapping games. So feck that when we need to compete against Kerry/Dublin/Galway who won't have faced anyone before the round robin!
My main thing is we need to show some progression in our play from the last 2 years.
I'm hoping Harte can unearth a scoring forward from somewhere and we can get to an AIQF with a clean bill of health where anything can happen. That and staying in Div1 are the main goals for the season I'd say!!
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2023, 10:00:37 PMI honestly don't care if Donegal beat us in Ulster. Our side of the draw is a minefield sure to include injury along with physically and emotionally sapping games. So feck that when we need to compete against Kerry/Dublin/Galway who won't have faced anyone before the round robin!
My main thing is we need to show some progression in our play from the last 2 years.
I'm hoping Harte can unearth a scoring forward from somewhere and we can get to an AIQF with a clean bill of health where anything can happen. That and staying in Div1 are the main goals for the season I'd say!!
Galway will be facing a Div 1 team in the Connacht final two teams they have lost against recently.
Let's say Derry are knocked out by Donegal. It would mean they'll be 3rd seeds in the group whereby making it harder to top that group. And not topping the group would mean playing against a rested Kerry,Dublin or the Connacht champion in the Quarter final and Derry facing into their 3rd match in 3 weeks.
I don't know what people are watching, Donegal ain't great, new manager back or not!
Derry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 12:55:12 AMI don't know what people are watching, Donegal ain't great, new manager back or not!
Agree with this. They'll be harder to beat but people forget how goo the players were under McGuinness initially and I don't think the same can be said here. They had 3 very good scoring forwards, Lacey, McGees, Durcan, McGlynn etc etc. They don't have close to that level of player now. Gallen is very good and Jamie Brennan on his day is decent. Murphy carried them for a long time so if he's not back I still think they'll struggle. If McGuinness hadn't come in I think they'd have gone to division 3 but don't think they will now.
(BTW I like Donegal and happy to be proven wrong but McGuinness didn't make a silk purse out of sow's ear the first time etc. Also they still have a chance of beating Derry ;D Derry need to win this IMO to win AI as it would make their path too much harder.)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:02:59 AMDerry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
So you don't care about ulster and you don't care about the league. Is it AI final or nothing? I tell myself ulster is a minefield and you might be better off not getting to the final but I don't want any of those teams to beat Derry either. I think the biggest occasion of last year was the Ulster final, even more so than the AI semi. The hype around that game was unreal, especially with the RG incident in the week leading up to it. Good chance Armagh will get to the final this year again so it will be very similar as they bring a massive support and are desperate to win it. You'd be sick if two other teams were in it this year.
Quote from: Mario on November 08, 2023, 09:05:04 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:02:59 AMDerry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
So you don't care about ulster and you don't care about the league. Is it AI final or nothing? I tell myself ulster is a minefield and you might be better off not getting to the final but I don't want any of those teams to beat Derry either. I think the biggest occasion of last year was the Ulster final, even more so than the AI semi. The hype around that game was unreal, especially with the RG incident in the week leading up to it. Good chance Armagh will get to the final this year again so it will be very similar as they bring a massive support and are desperate to win it. You'd be sick if two other teams were in it this year.
I have to say I agree with what you say about the Ulster Final last year.
Knowing how MH operates, Derry will be going out to win every game in every competition. He doesn't (or didn't) do tactical losses so far as I know.
He wont want to lose to McGuinness, or Tyrone or Armagh. So I can see us going all guns blazing for Ulster again, which I'd have no issue with.
As someone else said though, we've been in the wilderness for 20 odd years (maybe even 30), so I'd take any Ulster title (or any championship win) we can get.
Ultimately, I'd think goals for the year will be progression. Retain Div1 status, win ulster, get to an AI final.
Success will be Retain Div1 and get to an AI SF (beating Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh along the way).
Of course an AI would be dreamland for Derry.
Quote from: screenexile on November 07, 2023, 10:00:37 PMI honestly don't care if Donegal beat us in Ulster. Our side of the draw is a minefield sure to include injury along with physically and emotionally sapping games. So feck that when we need to compete against Kerry/Dublin/Galway who won't have faced anyone before the round robin!
My main thing is we need to show some progression in our play from the last 2 years.
I'm hoping Harte can unearth a scoring forward from somewhere and we can get to an AIQF with a clean bill of health where anything can happen. That and staying in Div1 are the main goals for the season I'd say!!
Any idea who? Or where this could come from in the short term?
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 08, 2023, 09:21:08 AMQuote from: Mario on November 08, 2023, 09:05:04 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:02:59 AMDerry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
So you don't care about ulster and you don't care about the league. Is it AI final or nothing? I tell myself ulster is a minefield and you might be better off not getting to the final but I don't want any of those teams to beat Derry either. I think the biggest occasion of last year was the Ulster final, even more so than the AI semi. The hype around that game was unreal, especially with the RG incident in the week leading up to it. Good chance Armagh will get to the final this year again so it will be very similar as they bring a massive support and are desperate to win it. You'd be sick if two other teams were in it this year.
I have to say I agree with what you say about the Ulster Final last year.
Knowing how MH operates, Derry will be going out to win every game in every competition. He doesn't (or didn't) do tactical losses so far as I know.
He wont want to lose to McGuinness, or Tyrone or Armagh. So I can see us going all guns blazing for Ulster again, which I'd have no issue with.
As someone else said though, we've been in the wilderness for 20 odd years (maybe even 30), so I'd take any Ulster title (or any championship win) we can get.
Ultimately, I'd think goals for the year will be progression. Retain Div1 status, win ulster, get to an AI final.
Success will be Retain Div1 and get to an AI SF (beating Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh along the way).
Of course an AI would be dreamland for Derry.
How is success the same as the previous years? Its an AI final appearance or derry have gone backwards.
Quote from: tyrone08 on November 08, 2023, 10:03:49 AMQuote from: tbrick18 on November 08, 2023, 09:21:08 AMQuote from: Mario on November 08, 2023, 09:05:04 AMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:02:59 AMDerry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
So you don't care about ulster and you don't care about the league. Is it AI final or nothing? I tell myself ulster is a minefield and you might be better off not getting to the final but I don't want any of those teams to beat Derry either. I think the biggest occasion of last year was the Ulster final, even more so than the AI semi. The hype around that game was unreal, especially with the RG incident in the week leading up to it. Good chance Armagh will get to the final this year again so it will be very similar as they bring a massive support and are desperate to win it. You'd be sick if two other teams were in it this year.
I have to say I agree with what you say about the Ulster Final last year.
Knowing how MH operates, Derry will be going out to win every game in every competition. He doesn't (or didn't) do tactical losses so far as I know.
He wont want to lose to McGuinness, or Tyrone or Armagh. So I can see us going all guns blazing for Ulster again, which I'd have no issue with.
As someone else said though, we've been in the wilderness for 20 odd years (maybe even 30), so I'd take any Ulster title (or any championship win) we can get.
Ultimately, I'd think goals for the year will be progression. Retain Div1 status, win ulster, get to an AI final.
Success will be Retain Div1 and get to an AI SF (beating Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh along the way).
Of course an AI would be dreamland for Derry.
How is success the same as the previous years? Its an AI final appearance or derry have gone backwards.
Like I said, I'm sure that will be one of the goals for the year.
But if we retain Div1 status (for the first time in many years) and make it to the last 4, that has to be considered success given that we will also have a new management team in place and probably adapt the way this team has been playing.
Provincial does not matter for the endgame.
Teams need to manage energy for key stages eg 3rd game of round robin, provincial final. They need to be fit for qf.
Can Monaghan and Derry kick on?
Can Mayo find something extra ?
Will Kerry fall back like Tyrone ?
Will Molloy and Silke make a difference for Galway?
Are Cork on an upward trend?
Can Kildare move up ?
Are Meath any use?
If Galway get all their players fit they are a formidable outfit and apart from Kerry/Dublin they are well out in front of the rest of the chasing pack
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:02:59 AMDerry not win Ulster as there only been 1 three in a row since the 1960's. It's finding players in the league and go full tilt in the All-Ireland series, The league, I be happy if we just manage to stay up. But wouldn't be too worried if we went down again, as the league importance fell away badly, been too close to the championship.
Not Harte's style, wants to win every competition enters you never seen a Mickey Harte McKenna cup team in January??
Mickey might not have a choice on his line up in the forthcoming mckenna cup, IF Glen footballers & Slaughtneil hurlers are still motoring well he wont have access to them
Long term injury to the keeper as well
Quote from: God14 on November 08, 2023, 02:31:52 PMMickey might not have a choice on his line up in the forthcoming mckenna cup, IF Glen footballers & Slaughtneil hurlers are still motoring well he wont have access to them
Long term injury to the keeper as well
Just look at the team line ups from last years McKenna Cup final.
Derry were missing the three Glen lads, and McKaigue was suspended, otherwise they were full out. 14 of the starting line up that night got on to the field at some stage of the AI semi v Kerry.
Whereas only half the starting Tyrone team actually played against Kerry. Though some of their main men were on the bench in the McKenna Final and D Canavan was injured.
Derry will probably go all out again. Though new blood is definitely required. There have been very few changes on the Derry starting XV in the last two years, and that needs to develop.
Quote from: NotedObserver on November 08, 2023, 01:20:39 PMIf Galway get all their players fit they are a formidable outfit and apart from Kerry/Dublin they are well out in front of the rest of the chasing pack
Galway are part of chasing pack that would be aiming to reach the last 4 in 2024 and might reach the final if they avoid Kerry,Dublin in the semi final. They rely on keeping Shane Walsh and Comer fit and in form. That will be easier said that done with Walsh to get little or no rest before Galway's season starts and Comer gets injured a lot.
It's going to be Dublin again and probably Kerry final. Media continue to try and convince people otherwise but it's like Man City in the Premier League now, it's not competitive and boring for the most part. And that's before we talk about the style of football.
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:44:33 PMIt's going to be Dublin again and probably Kerry final. Media continue to try and convince people otherwise but it's like Man City in the Premier League now, it's not competitive and boring for the most part. And that's before we talk about the style of football.
Yeah very unlikely either are beat before a final unless they meet in semi.
Any sign of a few retirements from that Dublin squad ;D
Kerry missed David Moran and Clifford looked knackered in the All Ireland Final. They have been on the go a while.
What are the parallels between this Donegal squad and the Donegal squad of 2011 when Jim first took over.
Were Rory Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher, the Mcgees, Karl Lacey, Mcfadden etc. highly rated and underperforming or did Jim just transform these players.
Obviously Murphy would have been talked about massively as a 'wonderkid' to use the soccer term, after getting Donegal to U21 Final and his performance against Cork I think it was.
When I look at this current Donegal squad if they have everyone available I'd argue they have as much if not more talent than the squad of 2011, more depth anyway. Which is why I have hopes that Donegal has similar scope for improvement with this squad as the one in 2011.
But would love to hear peoples thoughts on this?
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:44:33 PMIt's going to be Dublin again and probably Kerry final. Media continue to try and convince people otherwise but it's like Man City in the Premier League now, it's not competitive and boring for the most part. And that's before we talk about the style of football.
Which papers / journalists are saying it will be a county other than the big 2 winning Sam?
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 10, 2023, 09:40:37 AMWhat are the parallels between this Donegal squad and the Donegal squad of 2011 when Jim first took over.
Were Rory Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher, the Mcgees, Karl Lacey, Mcfadden etc. highly rated and underperforming or did Jim just transform these players.
Obviously Murphy would have been talked about massively as a 'wonderkid' to use the soccer term, after getting Donegal to U21 Final and his performance against Cork I think it was.
When I look at this current Donegal squad if they have everyone available I'd argue they have as much if not more talent than the squad of 2011, more depth anyway. Which is why I have hopes that Donegal has similar scope for improvement with this squad as the one in 2011.
But would love to hear peoples thoughts on this?
Karl Lacey already had two All Stars and only Keith Higgins would have come close to him as a corner back. Ironically, McGuinness transformed him into a play-making centre back.
The likes of Cassidy, Kavanagh, the McGees and McFadden all had great ability, but the commitment, team game plan and the resulting consistency just wasn't there.
I'm very skeptical that we have the same ceiling with the current squad.
Lacey was a generational talent. The likes of Murphy come on the scene even less frequently. Those two alone are probably among the three greatest ever players ever to come out of the county. There's no one there now to even approach their level.
I'd have great hopes for Oisin Gallen, who has the size, ball-winning and shooting ability to be a top intercounty forward, provided he can finally avoid these injuries that have continually held him back. Any maybe McGuinness will get the likes of Michael Langan and Ciaran Thompson playing to a consistent level where we can be confident they'll put their size, skill and shooting to use every game and leave the inconsistency behind. Brendan McCole looks very promising at full back, but he has a way to go yet to match Neil McGee. And are the supporting cast up to the levels of the likes of Mark McHugh, Frank Mc Glynn, Leo McLoone and Anthony Thompson? I don't know...
McBrearty will be interesting to watch in terms of what McGuinness does with him. Ryan McHugh too.
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2023, 01:29:16 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 10, 2023, 09:40:37 AMWhat are the parallels between this Donegal squad and the Donegal squad of 2011 when Jim first took over.
Were Rory Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher, the Mcgees, Karl Lacey, Mcfadden etc. highly rated and underperforming or did Jim just transform these players.
Obviously Murphy would have been talked about massively as a 'wonderkid' to use the soccer term, after getting Donegal to U21 Final and his performance against Cork I think it was.
When I look at this current Donegal squad if they have everyone available I'd argue they have as much if not more talent than the squad of 2011, more depth anyway. Which is why I have hopes that Donegal has similar scope for improvement with this squad as the one in 2011.
But would love to hear peoples thoughts on this?
Karl Lacey already had two All Stars and only Keith Higgins would have come close to him as a corner back. Ironically, McGuinness transformed him into a play-making centre back.
The likes of Cassidy, Kavanagh, the McGees and McFadden all had great ability, but the commitment, team game plan and the resulting consistency just wasn't there.
I'm very skeptical that we have the same ceiling with the current squad.
Lacey was a generational talent. The likes of Murphy come on the scene even less frequently. Those two alone are probably among the three greatest ever players ever to come out of the county. There's no one there now to even approach their level.
I'd have great hopes for Oisin Gallen, who has the size, ball-winning and shooting ability to be a top intercounty forward, provided he can finally avoid these injuries that have continually held him back. Any maybe McGuinness will get the likes of Michael Langan and Ciaran Thompson playing to a consistent level where we can be confident they'll put their size, skill and shooting to use every game and leave the inconsistency behind. Brendan McCole looks very promising at full back, but he has a way to go yet to match Neil McGee. And are the supporting cast up to the levels of the likes of Mark McHugh, Frank Mc Glynn, Leo McLoone and Anthony Thompson? I don't know...
McBrearty will be interesting to watch in terms of what McGuinness does with him. Ryan McHugh too.
Still a lot of quality in that current Donegal forward line though. Mcbrearty, Gallen, Brennan, Langan, Thompson, O'Donnell, Mogan.
Big men round the middle in Mcgee, McFadden, McGonggle.
Likes of Ryan Mchugh, Eoghan Ban, McMenamin, McFadden Ferry in defence theres plenty of options there.
I presume theres no persuading Murphy and McNiallis back?
The McHughs are like the Donnellans in Galway. Multi generational talents capable of leadiq
ng the county to All Irelands.
Hopefully Máirtín Beag has passed on the baton of never having to pay for his dinner in Manhattan.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 10, 2023, 02:06:46 PMQuote from: J70 on November 10, 2023, 01:29:16 PMQuote from: SouthOfThe Bann on November 10, 2023, 09:40:37 AMWhat are the parallels between this Donegal squad and the Donegal squad of 2011 when Jim first took over.
Were Rory Kavanagh, Neil Gallagher, the Mcgees, Karl Lacey, Mcfadden etc. highly rated and underperforming or did Jim just transform these players.
Obviously Murphy would have been talked about massively as a 'wonderkid' to use the soccer term, after getting Donegal to U21 Final and his performance against Cork I think it was.
When I look at this current Donegal squad if they have everyone available I'd argue they have as much if not more talent than the squad of 2011, more depth anyway. Which is why I have hopes that Donegal has similar scope for improvement with this squad as the one in 2011.
But would love to hear peoples thoughts on this?
Karl Lacey already had two All Stars and only Keith Higgins would have come close to him as a corner back. Ironically, McGuinness transformed him into a play-making centre back.
The likes of Cassidy, Kavanagh, the McGees and McFadden all had great ability, but the commitment, team game plan and the resulting consistency just wasn't there.
I'm very skeptical that we have the same ceiling with the current squad.
Lacey was a generational talent. The likes of Murphy come on the scene even less frequently. Those two alone are probably among the three greatest ever players ever to come out of the county. There's no one there now to even approach their level.
I'd have great hopes for Oisin Gallen, who has the size, ball-winning and shooting ability to be a top intercounty forward, provided he can finally avoid these injuries that have continually held him back. Any maybe McGuinness will get the likes of Michael Langan and Ciaran Thompson playing to a consistent level where we can be confident they'll put their size, skill and shooting to use every game and leave the inconsistency behind. Brendan McCole looks very promising at full back, but he has a way to go yet to match Neil McGee. And are the supporting cast up to the levels of the likes of Mark McHugh, Frank Mc Glynn, Leo McLoone and Anthony Thompson? I don't know...
McBrearty will be interesting to watch in terms of what McGuinness does with him. Ryan McHugh too.
Still a lot of quality in that current Donegal forward line though. Mcbrearty, Gallen, Brennan, Langan, Thompson, O'Donnell, Mogan.
Big men round the middle in Mcgee, McFadden, McGonggle.
Likes of Ryan Mchugh, Eoghan Ban, McMenamin, McFadden Ferry in defence theres plenty of options there.
I presume theres no persuading Murphy and McNiallis back?
I honestly think Donegal are not too far away in Ulster.
They improved massively under O'Rourke and Bradley last year. With McGuinness in there now, I'd expect them to progress more.
They are physically very big and have a some excellent players. McBrearty is passed his best but still can find scores. Keep Gallen fit, that's a potent enough forward line.
I'd expect Donegal to become much better defensively than in recent times too.
A real hum-dinger of a first round game with Derry v Donegal (Harte v McGuinness).
It could well be the pick of the first round games up and down the country.
Derry are the bet now. I'm guessing they'll take the league seriously and so those odds will probably shorten by the time the championship comes around
yes it will probably be Dublin or Kerry again and the media will try and spin a narrative to get people to care i think if its a Dublin or Kerry final a lot will boycott it and it will be limerick in hurling media will keep yapping on about 5 in a row to try and make it interesting it when most people do not care.
I think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Why would you boycott a Kerry Dublin game. Should we ask them not to try as hard to give the other counties a chance.
People may not boycott it directly but i think a mental boycott will happen people will be like mehhh and be apathetic if its kerry v dublin again does not matter if the game itself is good no matter how the media spin with stuff like kerry trying to stop the dubs win 2 in a row or something,
Fair enough. Personally I'd watch it just for the quality of footballers alone. What might become an interesting one in a few years is if Dublin get close to Kerrys record of wins.
Quote from: Eire90 on November 13, 2023, 08:35:10 PMI think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon. Galway probably the best candidate, but they're still a bit away.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2023, 10:55:45 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 13, 2023, 08:35:10 PMI think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon. Galway probably the best candidate, but they're still a bit away.
Galway if they can keep everyone fit and in form have a great chance, if Harte can raise Derry another level they could catch one of the big 2.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 10:57:59 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2023, 10:55:45 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 13, 2023, 08:35:10 PMI think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon. Galway probably the best candidate, but they're still a bit away.
Galway if they can keep everyone fit and in form have a great chance, if Harte can raise Derry another level they could catch one of the big 2.
Not for me, personally.
Monaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
Quote from: toby47 on November 14, 2023, 12:53:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 10:57:59 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2023, 10:55:45 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 13, 2023, 08:35:10 PMI think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon. Galway probably the best candidate, but they're still a bit away.
Galway if they can keep everyone fit and in form have a great chance, if Harte can raise Derry another level they could catch one of the big 2.
Not for me, personally.
2 bad decisions away for beating Kerry by 3/4 points this year. Squad bolstered, MH in charge... Who knows?
Quote from: JoG2 on November 14, 2023, 02:17:40 PMQuote from: toby47 on November 14, 2023, 12:53:20 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 10:57:59 AMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2023, 10:55:45 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 13, 2023, 08:35:10 PMI think the all ireland really needs a team that has not won it in a long time to give it a boost a team.
Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon. Galway probably the best candidate, but they're still a bit away.
Galway if they can keep everyone fit and in form have a great chance, if Harte can raise Derry another level they could catch one of the big 2.
Not for me, personally.
2 bad decisions away for beating Kerry by 3/4 points this year. Squad bolstered, MH in charge... Who knows?
Depends on Clifford I suppose. If he gets to an ai club final with Fossa he'll have played some football in last 2 years, bound to take its toll. Anyway wasn't a whole pile between Derry and Kerry last year. Probably wouldnt have been much between Derry and Dublin either
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PMMonaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
There is a big difference between staying in contention to 65 mins and winning
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 02:37:52 PMQuote from: Aaron Boone on November 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PMMonaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
There is a big difference between staying in contention to 65 mins and winning
True. But if its in the melting pot at that stage anything can happen. Lucky goal, a penalty, a red card etc
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 03:13:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 02:37:52 PMQuote from: Aaron Boone on November 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PMMonaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
There is a big difference between staying in contention to 65 mins and winning
True. But if its in the melting pot at that stage anything can happen. Lucky goal, a penalty, a red card etc
Most times the team with experience grinds out the win.
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2023, 01:23:47 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 03:13:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 02:37:52 PMQuote from: Aaron Boone on November 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PMMonaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
There is a big difference between staying in contention to 65 mins and winning
True. But if its in the melting pot at that stage anything can happen. Lucky goal, a penalty, a red card etc
Most times the team with experience grinds out the win.
Monaghan have experience, won ulster relatively recently...been in the latter stages of the AI and have a group of players that have been around a long time. The age of their experienced players might be their downfall though as they rely heavily on the older lads.
Derry have a good age profile, have loads of experienced players in terms of club series from Slaughtneil and Glen. Plenty of players now who have won all-ireland minors too and who have played in the latter stages of the AI whilst also winning back to back ulsters. The only experience lacking is winning an AI. But I take your point, in an AI final the team who have been there and done it before will always have an edge.
So it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2023, 01:23:47 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 14, 2023, 03:13:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 02:37:52 PMQuote from: Aaron Boone on November 14, 2023, 01:29:47 PMMonaghan & Derry weren't far away in their semis this year. They have to believe they can beat them next time.
There is a big difference between staying in contention to 65 mins and winning
True. But if its in the melting pot at that stage anything can happen. Lucky goal, a penalty, a red card etc
Most times the team with experience grinds out the win.
Unless Derry or Monaghan got Mayo...
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 10:30:04 AMSo it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Would be brilliant if that was the AI Final pairing.....with Derry winning though ;D
Most people in Derry are realistic and most are happy that we can compete with the top teams again. No-one expects to win the AI, but its fantastic to at least be in the conversation with a chance.
We've one AI in our history, so success for me is being able to compete at the top end consistently and if we win Sam that would be the cherry on top. Would love my kids to get that experience and I think Derry as a county would get some lift if they did win it, but at the end of it all if we don't win it doesn't take away the enjoyment and the hope.
I feel Derry could have won last year, should have beat Kerry and would have given Dublin a tougher game in the final. But it was still a great year for us, and this year hopefully will be too.
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 03:28:20 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 10:30:04 AMSo it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Would be brilliant if that was the AI Final pairing.....with Derry winning though ;D
Most people in Derry are realistic and most are happy that we can compete with the top teams again. No-one expects to win the AI, but its fantastic to at least be in the conversation with a chance.
We've one AI in our history, so success for me is being able to compete at the top end consistently and if we win Sam that would be the cherry on top. Would love my kids to get that experience and I think Derry as a county would get some lift if they did win it, but at the end of it all if we don't win it doesn't take away the enjoyment and the hope.
I feel Derry could have won last year, should have beat Kerry and would have given Dublin a tougher game in the final. But it was still a great year for us, and this year hopefully will be too.
Kerry was level 1-13 each with 73 minutes played in this years All-Ireland final i don't think Derry would have given much tougher than that.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 17, 2023, 03:58:00 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 03:28:20 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 10:30:04 AMSo it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Would be brilliant if that was the AI Final pairing.....with Derry winning though ;D
Most people in Derry are realistic and most are happy that we can compete with the top teams again. No-one expects to win the AI, but its fantastic to at least be in the conversation with a chance.
We've one AI in our history, so success for me is being able to compete at the top end consistently and if we win Sam that would be the cherry on top. Would love my kids to get that experience and I think Derry as a county would get some lift if they did win it, but at the end of it all if we don't win it doesn't take away the enjoyment and the hope.
I feel Derry could have won last year, should have beat Kerry and would have given Dublin a tougher game in the final. But it was still a great year for us, and this year hopefully will be too.
Kerry was level 1-13 each with 73 minutes played in this years All-Ireland final i don't think Derry would have given much tougher than that.
That was with Clifford not firing.
It's all ifs and buts I know, but I think if Derry had been playing Dublin, we'd have put them under more pressure than Kerry did. Only an opinion and last season has been and gone. I'd be happy if we got a chance to test ourselves against Kerry/Dublin again at that stage of the championship.
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 05:25:07 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 17, 2023, 03:58:00 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 03:28:20 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 10:30:04 AMSo it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Would be brilliant if that was the AI Final pairing.....with Derry winning though ;D
Most people in Derry are realistic and most are happy that we can compete with the top teams again. No-one expects to win the AI, but its fantastic to at least be in the conversation with a chance.
We've one AI in our history, so success for me is being able to compete at the top end consistently and if we win Sam that would be the cherry on top. Would love my kids to get that experience and I think Derry as a county would get some lift if they did win it, but at the end of it all if we don't win it doesn't take away the enjoyment and the hope.
I feel Derry could have won last year, should have beat Kerry and would have given Dublin a tougher game in the final. But it was still a great year for us, and this year hopefully will be too.
Kerry was level 1-13 each with 73 minutes played in this years All-Ireland final i don't think Derry would have given much tougher than that.
That was with Clifford not firing.
It's all ifs and buts I know, but I think if Derry had been playing Dublin, we'd have put them under more pressure than Kerry did. Only an opinion and last season has been and gone. I'd be happy if we got a chance to test ourselves against Kerry/Dublin again at that stage of the championship.
We would have been without Mckinless and Mcgrogan for the final. Very little chance we would have beaten the Dubs without those two imo.
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 05:25:07 PMQuote from: Captain Obvious on November 17, 2023, 03:58:00 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on November 17, 2023, 03:28:20 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 10:30:04 AMSo it's Monaghan to beat Derry in 2024 AI Final?
Would be great to have a Final without Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone or the crowd to the West of us.
Would be brilliant if that was the AI Final pairing.....with Derry winning though ;D
Most people in Derry are realistic and most are happy that we can compete with the top teams again. No-one expects to win the AI, but its fantastic to at least be in the conversation with a chance.
We've one AI in our history, so success for me is being able to compete at the top end consistently and if we win Sam that would be the cherry on top. Would love my kids to get that experience and I think Derry as a county would get some lift if they did win it, but at the end of it all if we don't win it doesn't take away the enjoyment and the hope.
I feel Derry could have won last year, should have beat Kerry and would have given Dublin a tougher game in the final. But it was still a great year for us, and this year hopefully will be too.
Kerry was level 1-13 each with 73 minutes played in this years All-Ireland final i don't think Derry would have given much tougher than that.
That was with Clifford not firing.
It's all ifs and buts I know, but I think if Derry had been playing Dublin, we'd have put them under more pressure than Kerry did. Only an opinion and last season has been and gone. I'd be happy if we got a chance to test ourselves against Kerry/Dublin again at that stage of the championship.
Not sure how much closer you can run them than that lol. Would like to see Derry play Dublin myself, think you's would definitely run them close as well.