Re: The paid manager part of it.
Dublin have paid employees (Before you all start)
However a bit different here, i mentioned a current manager was getting 50/60 a year at a certain county and got lambasted.
Genuine question, any ideas who this is. Football, no Championship silverware (implying maybe a league :)
My own opinion its Mayo or Tyrone, look to managers with no job and maybe one that has held on to it for too long.
Is it on the books and paying tax on it?
Spillane in the Indo:
A bigger issue is that even in counties where the manager is not getting paid, he has assembled a very expensive back-room team, so the county board doesn't save anything. By the way, this time last year I revealed that one football manager was being paid €100,000.
So how did he get on?
Well, his team didn't win any championship silverware.
But he's back at the helm in 2020 with presumably the same package.
The take-home message from all the reaction I received last weekend was that somebody needs to cry halt.
Maybe the next GAA president, who will be elected in a couple of months, might be the man to save us all.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/pat-spillane-the-tipp-football-team-had-a-busier-festive-period-than-liverpool-their-schedule-was-ridiculous-38854931.html
Quote from: TheGreatest on January 13, 2020, 11:29:29 AM
Re: The paid manager part of it.
Dublin have paid employees (Before you all start)
However a bit different here, i mentioned a current manager was getting 50/60 a year at a certain county and got lambasted.
Genuine question, any ideas who this is. Football, no Championship silverware (implying maybe a league :)
My own opinion its Mayo or Tyrone, look to managers with no job and maybe one that has held on to it for too long.
Is it on the books and paying tax on it?
Spillane in the Indo:
A bigger issue is that even in counties where the manager is not getting paid, he has assembled a very expensive back-room team, so the county board doesn't save anything. By the way, this time last year I revealed that one football manager was being paid €100,000.
So how did he get on?
Well, his team didn't win any championship silverware.
But he's back at the helm in 2020 with presumably the same package.
The take-home message from all the reaction I received last weekend was that somebody needs to cry halt.
Maybe the next GAA president, who will be elected in a couple of months, might be the man to save us all.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/pat-spillane-the-tipp-football-team-had-a-busier-festive-period-than-liverpool-their-schedule-was-ridiculous-38854931.html
Can't be an O6 county if its €.
12. I reckon 13 inter-county football managers are getting paid at the moment – which is a relatively low figure.
Personally would have thought it was closer to at least double that.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 13, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
12. I reckon 13 inter-county football managers are getting paid at the moment – which is a relatively low figure.
Personally would have thought it was closer to at least double that.
How would Pat Spillane know this? Given the majority of club managers are getting paid these days (at least in Tyrone) i'd have assumed 90+% of county managers would be also
Spillane does roughly the same levels of research for his articles, as a bull does into its mating partners.
He has been stealing a living for 25 years, and that his opinions are considered still relevant is a blemish on Irish society.
Quote from: bigpackiechestout on January 13, 2020, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 13, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
12. I reckon 13 inter-county football managers are getting paid at the moment – which is a relatively low figure.
Personally would have thought it was closer to at least double that.
How would Pat Spillane know this? Given the majority of club managers are getting paid these days (at least in Tyrone) i'd have assumed 90+% of county managers would be also
I reckon that the number of mangers
not being paid in Offaly is definitely in single digits, across both codes. I'd nearly say that you could count them on one hand.
Anyone that thinks that some county managers are not getting paid are living in cloud cuckoo land. We even an individual on here who was adamant that their county manager was doing it for nothing.
And probably around 2,000 Senior Club managers between football and hurling earning from €10k upwards.
A Club in Roscommon giving a lad €170 per session for a 30km round trip.......
Quote from: thewobbler on January 13, 2020, 12:48:42 PM
Spillane does roughly the same levels of research for his articles, as a bull does into its mating partners.
He has been stealing a living for 25 years, and that his opinions are considered still relevant is a blemish on Irish society.
Spillane is like the Larry Gogan of GAA punditry. Larry played records, there was no real research or insight. He relied on sound bites. In Larry's case this was ok. He was a humble soul, knew the score and was professional at what he did. Spillane on the other hand has a high opinion of himself and sees himself as some sort deep thinker.
I wonder if he is talking about McGeeney? The question is how would he know regardless of who he is talking about? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to that one
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
I wonder if he is talking about McGeeney? The question is how would he know regardless of who he is talking about? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to that one
I'd offer to do something extremely stupid if McGeeney is on 100k. Absolutely no chance in my opinon.
Is the myth of Harte not getting paid gone now then??
I'd imagine Gavin didn't get paid or refused to take expenses or whatever he seems like that sort.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 13, 2020, 09:02:55 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
I wonder if he is talking about McGeeney? The question is how would he know regardless of who he is talking about? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to that one
I'd offer to do something extremely stupid if McGeeney is on 100k. Absolutely no chance in my opinon.
Depending who you listen to he is on anything between £50k and £80k. Not that I necessarily believe that
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
I wonder if he is talking about McGeeney? The question is how would he know regardless of who he is talking about? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to that one
Probably Horan!
Quote from: screenexile on January 13, 2020, 09:32:12 PM
Is the myth of Harte not getting paid gone now then??
I'd imagine Gavin didn't get paid or refused to take expenses or whatever he seems like that sort.
Another Derryman unleashing his subjective bias on us.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 13, 2020, 12:48:42 PM
Spillane does roughly the same levels of research for his articles, as a bull does into its mating partners.
He has been stealing a living for 25 years, and that his opinions are considered still relevant is a blemish on Irish society.
While Pat is the master of the Failed analogy, he does actually know what hes talking about . easy for the Kids to forget he has a good claim to be the Best ever footballer , unlike Brolly who was a minor of a once off champion and is rivaling Ronnie Delany for making the most out of one Medal
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2020, 09:30:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 13, 2020, 09:32:12 PM
Is the myth of Harte not getting paid gone now then??
I'd imagine Gavin didn't get paid or refused to take expenses or whatever he seems like that sort.
Another Derryman unleashing his subjective bias on us.
Mickey isn't getting paid then??
Quote from: screenexile on January 14, 2020, 11:44:58 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2020, 09:30:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 13, 2020, 09:32:12 PM
Is the myth of Harte not getting paid gone now then??
I'd imagine Gavin didn't get paid or refused to take expenses or whatever he seems like that sort.
Another Derryman unleashing his subjective bias on us.
Mickey isn't getting paid then??
Couldn't tell you, couldn't tell you if Jim Gavin was either.
All I take from this thread is that the ignore function is a very useful tool so thanks again to proboards for providing it. ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 14, 2020, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 13, 2020, 08:06:48 PM
I wonder if he is talking about McGeeney? The question is how would he know regardless of who he is talking about? I'm fairly sure I know the answer to that one
Probably Horan!
Probably most definitely.
Horan won a national league title
Quote from: DuffleKing on January 15, 2020, 11:00:31 AM
Horan won a national league title
He did....
In the article it states said manager won no Championship silverware, meaning could have won a League.
Can see the sense in counties paying managers something but my major problem is the club manager circuit, clubs who are struggling to keep the lights on are having to try and fundraise etc to try pay some boy to come in when the money could be going to better use for juvenile teams etc
Quote from: themac_23 on January 15, 2020, 12:13:25 PM
Can see the sense in counties paying managers something but my major problem is the club manager circuit, clubs who are struggling to keep the lights on are having to try and fundraise etc to try pay some boy to come in when the money could be going to better use for juvenile teams etc
A suggestion I saw somewhere is that at club level the same rules regarding players should apply to managers regarding registration and transfers.
That would be a help and could save €20m per annum.
I just can't see any way around managers getting paid myself, much as I'd love to.
Put them "through the books" and the ultra-black market of sponsors sending envelopes directly to managers, will become the norm for everyone. The GAA can't control this. Send a top investigative journalist onto the case and he might unearth and shame a few, but the majority will trundle on.
Tie them to club membership, and they become strength and conditioning coaches / physios in name, which means they can run the show from the sidelines, in every way apart from wearing a bib on championship days.
These moves would only feed whispers and resentment, while changing nothing.
It's an insipid part of association's culture.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 15, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
I just can't see any way around managers getting paid myself, much as I'd love to.
Put them "through the books" and the ultra-black market of sponsors sending envelopes directly to managers, will become the norm for everyone. The GAA can't control this. Send a top investigative journalist onto the case and he might unearth and shame a few, but the majority will trundle on.
Tie them to club membership, and they become strength and conditioning coaches / physios in name, which means they can run the show from the sidelines, in every way apart from wearing a bib on championship days.
These moves would only feed whispers and resentment, while changing nothing.
It's an insipid part of association's culture.
+1
You are bang on and no amount of waffling about tying managers to club memberships or putting their income through the books will solve the problem. That is, if you regard it as a problem in the first place.
I believe that most managers derive most if not all of their income through covert sponsorship deals- probably with the knowledge of county boards or club executive. I mean that clubs or cbs could manage to pay some of the payments being bandied about on this board and prevent it showing up on the books.
Apart from that, a great many clubs and counties are already struggling to keep going as it is without stuffing thousands of euros into brown envelopes on the qt.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 16, 2020, 01:11:15 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 15, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
I just can't see any way around managers getting paid myself, much as I'd love to.
Put them "through the books" and the ultra-black market of sponsors sending envelopes directly to managers, will become the norm for everyone. The GAA can't control this. Send a top investigative journalist onto the case and he might unearth and shame a few, but the majority will trundle on.
Tie them to club membership, and they become strength and conditioning coaches / physios in name, which means they can run the show from the sidelines, in every way apart from wearing a bib on championship days.
These moves would only feed whispers and resentment, while changing nothing.
It's an insipid part of association's culture.
+1
You are bang on and no amount of waffling about tying managers to club memberships or putting their income through the books will solve the problem. That is, if you regard it as a problem in the first place.
I believe that most managers derive most if not all of their income through covert sponsorship deals- probably with the knowledge of county boards or club executive. I mean that clubs or cbs could manage to pay some of the payments being bandied about on this board and prevent it showing up on the books.
Apart from that, a great many clubs and counties are already struggling to keep going as it is without stuffing thousands of euros into brown envelopes on the qt.
Will these lad end up with a very minimal pension if taxes not paid on earnings? A bit like the lads in parts of the UK who were paid cash "off the books" for years and are now destitute in their old age?
is there any one on this chat room, that is involved in payment of mangers ? either as a club member or as a manager?
How do they get paid is it brown paper bags
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 16, 2020, 01:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 16, 2020, 01:11:15 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 15, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
I just can't see any way around managers getting paid myself, much as I'd love to.
Put them "through the books" and the ultra-black market of sponsors sending envelopes directly to managers, will become the norm for everyone. The GAA can't control this. Send a top investigative journalist onto the case and he might unearth and shame a few, but the majority will trundle on.
Tie them to club membership, and they become strength and conditioning coaches / physios in name, which means they can run the show from the sidelines, in every way apart from wearing a bib on championship days.
These moves would only feed whispers and resentment, while changing nothing.
It's an insipid part of association's culture.
+1
You are bang on and no amount of waffling about tying managers to club memberships or putting their income through the books will solve the problem. That is, if you regard it as a problem in the first place.
I believe that most managers derive most if not all of their income through covert sponsorship deals- probably with the knowledge of county boards or club executive. I mean that clubs or cbs could manage to pay some of the payments being bandied about on this board and prevent it showing up on the books.
Apart from that, a great many clubs and counties are already struggling to keep going as it is without stuffing thousands of euros into brown envelopes on the qt.
Will these lad end up with a very minimal pension if taxes not paid on earnings? A bit like the lads in parts of the UK who were paid cash "off the books" for years and are now destitute in their old age?
Maybe be an idea for the GAA to insist on tax clearance certs from the Revenue for anyone who wants to manage a senior intercounty team?
Another possible idea is to ask the government to increase the reporting requirements and financial controls for sporting clubs and associations.
Make it so that every club/association that is looking to fundraise from the public in any way or receive tax payer funds have to provide five years of all their financial reports for the the charity regulator to post on the charity regulator's website, with increased requirements in terms of the detail on where money is spent. The last few years have shown that simply requiring audited reports is inadequate.
There should be complete visability in terms of every cent spent by any sporting club or association, especially as regards salaries and expenses.
I find it gas that Spillane who has been making a lot of money from the GAA for years now should begrudge inter-county Managers getting rewarded for their time.
It's like lets me sit up here in my Ivory tower getting well paid for writing a few columns and a bit of TV. Meanwhile you should get nothing for spending most of your year Managing a football team for nothing.
Quote from: twohands!!! on January 16, 2020, 05:26:14 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on January 16, 2020, 01:43:36 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 16, 2020, 01:11:15 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 15, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
I just can't see any way around managers getting paid myself, much as I'd love to.
Put them "through the books" and the ultra-black market of sponsors sending envelopes directly to managers, will become the norm for everyone. The GAA can't control this. Send a top investigative journalist onto the case and he might unearth and shame a few, but the majority will trundle on.
Tie them to club membership, and they become strength and conditioning coaches / physios in name, which means they can run the show from the sidelines, in every way apart from wearing a bib on championship days.
These moves would only feed whispers and resentment, while changing nothing.
It's an insipid part of association's culture.
+1
You are bang on and no amount of waffling about tying managers to club memberships or putting their income through the books will solve the problem. That is, if you regard it as a problem in the first place.
I believe that most managers derive most if not all of their income through covert sponsorship deals- probably with the knowledge of county boards or club executive. I mean that clubs or cbs could manage to pay some of the payments being bandied about on this board and prevent it showing up on the books.
Apart from that, a great many clubs and counties are already struggling to keep going as it is without stuffing thousands of euros into brown envelopes on the qt.
Will these lad end up with a very minimal pension if taxes not paid on earnings? A bit like the lads in parts of the UK who were paid cash "off the books" for years and are now destitute in their old age?
Maybe be an idea for the GAA to insist on tax clearance certs from the Revenue for anyone who wants to manage a senior intercounty team?
Another possible idea is to ask the government to increase the reporting requirements and financial controls for sporting clubs and associations.
Make it so that every club/association that is looking to fundraise from the public in any way or receive tax payer funds have to provide five years of all their financial reports for the the charity regulator to post on the charity regulator's website, with increased requirements in terms of the detail on where money is spent. The last few years have shown that simply requiring audited reports is inadequate.
There should be complete visability in terms of every cent spent by any sporting club or association, especially as regards salaries and expenses.
How can you audit something that doesn't exist?
I know you mean well with what you're proposing. But the crux of the issue is you won't find a paper trail linking it together, as the money managers receive either a) never actually comes into the association (sponsors making direct payments), or b) is never recognisable as income; it is an addendum to the declared figures on gate receipts, lottos, and other cash fundraisers. Short of appointing an auditor to attend all potential income generation events - which would be both unconstitutional and more costly than the managers they are pursuing - there is no way of breaking this code.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 16, 2020, 05:37:35 PM
I find it gas that Spillane who has been making a lot of money from the GAA for years now should begrudge inter-county Managers getting rewarded for their time.
It's like lets me sit up here in my Ivory tower getting well paid for writing a few columns and a bit of TV. Meanwhile you should get nothing for spending most of your year Managing a football team for nothing.
Agree, but it doesn't make him wrong! and it isn't just county football.
There are a long list of people reaching into the pockets of communities up and down the country in the name of preparing club and county teams:
- Managers - Organisation, man management, doing the line etc etc
- Coaches (a variety of kinds) - but not the job of a manager
- Physios - treating injuries, pitchside, rub downs etc
- Performance / video analysis
- Sports Psychology
Don't get me wrong - some of this is defensible in the interest of player welfare - particularly physios, but there are a lot of trimmings.
You have stuff like this - and I don't know if it's still going?
http://www.breakforball.com/other-services/
What is the objective here? Only one team can win any given competition at the end of the year - so what is it all about? Excellence? Commitment? Competitiveness? ....Money?.
It starts with some big shot on an ego trip, deciding to pay for Ballygobackwards GAC to have a manager. The manager gets paid per session, so the training starts earlier in the year and its three nights a week, all in the name of getting the edge on our rivals - the players are taking out gym memberships for a strength and conditioning winter programme. It's ultra-competitive and there are 30 lads training every night early in the year. The manager prefers if the players use a particular phsyio and they run up a sizeable bill. Ballygobackwards don't win the championship, therefore now need to pay a better manager and we need bonding weekends. But by this stage the big shot has disappeared, but the club continues to fundraise to pay a manager and has also built a gym.
The highpoint is a Senior Final in which they get badly beaten but within two years they are back in Intermediate football. Ballygobackwards still has the gym, but the players aren't using it. They no long field a reserve team and only have 10 players training some nights. They are still fundraising (from all of the usual suspects in the local community) - some of it being used to pay an outside manager, who insists on a coach and a physio.
Is this sensible?