Messages

I've nothing to apologise for to a liar like you.

Your tables mean nothing because you have selected an arbitrary cut off point. Your argument is false. Money = achievement, yet you deliberately don't include periods like the fifities (in both hurling and football) and the seventies where success was attained and sustained without this investment.

The money given to Kerry has also increased from the mid 80s, yet you don't argue that it has materially improved their performances in the noughties when they won six All Ireland titles (including 2000). You say that it is the quantity of the money involved that makes the difference, but refuse to accept the logical point that when a county contains nearly 1/3 of the total population it should receive more resources. And even dividing the money on a per capita basis isn't fair because some counties face different challenges - for instance why would we give money to Kilkenny for football development when there is no will within the Kilkenny county board itself to promote football.

Antrim deserve all the money they need to address their own specific needs, to make them more successful and promote the games within a harsh enviroment. They shouldn't receive the same amount of money as Dublin because they don't have the same amount of players nor do they have the same amount of potential players or club members. That's just logic and demographics - neither of which you grasp.

As for Dublin's achievements pre 1950, I think most Dublin fans like me would accept that those teams were not representative of the county. However, it is a measure of the job the county board did (under direction from St. Vincents) to turn that round by the 55 football final and to have a true Dublin team competing. It is actually quite similar to the good job that has been done in the past few years reorganising our minors and U-21s, and  that is not about money. That is about being organised and having a plan.

You want reasons for our underachievement in the noughties? A lot of it had to do with a badly run county board not about money.

You'rea joker and a troll. Worse - you know nothing about the GAA.  Keep it up - it gets more revealing as you go on. Throw in a few more emoticons while you're at it.

Couldn't make it today, but got to watch it on the box. One of the their best ever performances, no matter the competition - ten points down?

They're starting to have the same aura as that great Meath team from twenty five years ago- they always come back!

I know but what can you do? Dublin League games in Croke Park are getting an average of (I think) 22,000 people - that is more than double Parnell Park. The hurlers get less of a crowd and they use PP. I used to love the league games in Parnell - it could be a right bear pit - there were a couple of really intense clashes with Tyrone there in the mid noughties that stand out.

there was talk a couple of years ago that the county board had land set aside out near Rathcoole to put a new stadium on - with a 25k capacity, I think. But the fact is Dublin, as a city, probably has too many stadiums already, and the ones it has it can't maintain - thinking of places like Dalymount, Tolka Park - good locations, but falling apart.

I'd say though the attendances haven't been great this year and they seem to debate it every season as to whether it is worth it - the bottom line will rule on this one - if it becomes unfeasible to have league games in Croker it will be back to donnycarney.

Difficult one to judge - playing the League finals out of Croke Park a few years ago was deemed a disaster in terms of attendance (was it 2006? I think it was Kerry and Donegal? Correct me if I am wrong).

Also remember the 99 final in Pairc Ui Chaoimh dubs v Cork - very poor atmosphere, poor game. Definitely think we could play semi finals out of Croker, but the finals should be there - as a reward for  getting there.

1. No your statement wasn't factual. As you have a tenuous grasp on reality, this is not surprising.

2. As I've said on numerous occasions during this bizarre debate, Dublin needs more money because  it has more players than any other county, but also has a huge non-playing population which the GAA need to get playing. These are two reasons, not excuses. Your entire argument is embarrassing.

3. I saw your table and in my first post on it, told you what was wrong with it. You're grasping for straws now DM.

4. What I actually said was that I was happy to accept the achievements of the 1961 team - who were Dubs. They were also the last team to contest an All Ireland hurling final, Very proud of them actually. You're a disaster DM.

5. Counties don't get 1.5 million a year because they don't have the same population as Dublin, both playing and non-playing. Jesus, you are dim. Like an auld deaf and blind dog, chewing on a chair leg because he thinks it's a bone.

"Dublin bought their titles, Dubs are all drug addicts, Dub bankers wrecked the country.." et cetera, etc cetera repeat ad infinitum.......fade to black

It must be dark down there under the bridge DM.

Let's do this quick - I'll try and leave out big words in case you are confused.

1. Using bold typeface does not make a statement factual.

2. Kilkenny does need funds to promote the GAA - but not as much as Dublin does, because there are a lot more people in Dublin. Forget foundation level - this is remedial. (Oh no, big words!!!)

3. Ah, so you're saying that money does not buy titles for anyone bar the Dublin team post 2011. Yet they were getting the same level of money before that? So were they just bad at spending it, or maybe, just maybe, the current crop of players are a wee bit special, with or without money? As they proved already today. By the way I'm not strung out, but reading your posts is probably like being very high - an initial rush, a fog of confusion, and a very bad comedown.

4. I don't mind being slagged myself, but you are slagging off the achievements of Dublin club hurlers - for instance the 1961 Leinster champions, backboned by St. Vincents men like the Foley brothers, the Fergusons, Noel Drumgoole, Shay Lynch etc. More than happy to claim their achievements for Dublin, as I am with the team  that contested two successive Leinster finals in 90 and 91, a time when hurling was truly competitive in Leinster, including a cousin of mine. Lads who don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as a trolling knuckledragger such as yourself, who has zero knowledge of Dublin GAA.

5. As for players who came through the "multi-million euro system", I thought we had agreed that games development money wasn't spent on the senior team? I think every county has the chance and the choice to emulate Dublin's processes. Not that Dublin are the ne plus ultra of football and hurling - sport is a cycle and in a few years time, some other team will have ripped up the blueprint and gone a different way - as Tyrone did in the noughties, as the Northern counties did in the 90's, as Meath did in the late 80s, as Kerry did in the 70s, and the Dubs before them again.

Look them up - you might be surprised what you will learn. Joker and a troll. Back under the bridge with you.

By the way, I agree completely with Mick Foley's article - I'd love to get a few road trips as would a lot of fans I know.

So Dublin is over three times bigger than the next biggest county, 20 times bigger than many but they still need millions of euro to compete with them? Embarrassing. 

As I said before, Dublin is not using that money as an unfair advantage against other GAA counties - they are using it to compete with soccer, rugby and a lot of different, easily available sports. You are embarrassing.

very other county competes with other sports, you think it's only hurling and football played outside Dublin?  Plus many rural areas have far higher rates of emigration to Dublin.

Then surely Dublin should have more funds to deal with this migration? If you had to do it yourself, you might appreciate a well-run club infrastructure catering for you and your family.

Every county struggles with playing numbers, it's not unique to Dublin and it doesn't justify 1.5million per year. Kilkenny don't have much footballers, should the GAA give them millions to sort it out?

Kilkenny does not have a potential playing population in hundreds of thousands. This is foundation level maths. It appears you are as challenged numerically as you are grammatically.

The GAA wasn't set up as a charity to help Dublin you know? I can see where you get confused as the rest of the country is always helping out the Dubs, building methadone clinics, bailing out banks destroyed by your bankers etc etc Every county is meant to be on an equal footing in the GAA.

Well if it is that bad, maybe the rural people will stop migrating up here. If you're any kind of example, I doubt it will be adding much to the gene pool.

Quote
I didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?
You're simple enough for me. That is perhaps the greatest paragraph ever written on this board. Moron.

You want be to post up the table of titles won pre money and post money again? I know it's hard to accept but you've won titles unfairly.

You're missing the point, but that is not surprising. Let's spell it out for you - "I'm not saying that money buys titles - I'm saying that the money given to Dublin bought their titles." Genius.

This is the best yet, you're the one that knows nothing about Dublin GAA it seems. I said they never won anything in hurling on their own. Not many players from Dublin in those Leinster title wins was there? Not surprising that you have no shame in claiming them though as you're happy to accept titles bought for you now!

I'm sure lads like Lar Foley are resting easy in their graves with your knowledge of their non Dub back ground.

You are a moron. By the way Dublin just came back from a 10 point deficit to beat Cork - money can't buy that.

[same work]

Dublin.including Fingal and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, is over three times bigger than the nearest county Cork and 5 times bigger than Galway. When compared with the other counties it is at least ten times bigger, 20 times bigger in a lot of cases. In crude population terms, Dublin needs more than these counties to do the same work effectively.

Factor in the the competition that GAA has in the capital from other other sports, that are all easily available usually within driving distance. My own home area would be serviced by three GAA clubs - there are at least six soccer teams nearby, one rugby team, the National Aquatic Centre, four or five golf club, three athletic clubs, rowing and canoeing clubs - all within a twenty minute drive from my front door, less if the traffic isn't bad. Other urban areas have the same competition but not to the same extent as Dublin. Rural counties would have far less choice, less competition. Like it or not, a third of the population is based in Dublin - if the GAA does not compete with the other sports it loses a huge swathe of the country's young people. The real figures that are interesting are not crude comparisons of Dublin's spend with other counties which cannot tell the real story, but what other sports are spending in Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative.

Secondly there's nothing wrong with teams being successful as long as it's by fair means ie. nothing wrong with Dublin winning in the 70's or Kerry winning. Thirdly, games development means improving structures and employing development officers to assist clubs and work with underage teams, the improved underage results can be seen in the tables I put up earlier, this leads to the All Irelands that have been won in 2011 and 2013.

So you're saying that improving your results through games development is unfair? Bizarre.

I didn't claim money wins you All Irelands, I'm claiming the money Dublin received since 04/05 has bought them numerous titles in hurling and football including 2 senior All Irelands. Is that simple enough for you?

You're simple enough for me. That is perhaps the greatest paragraph ever written on this board. Moron.

Dublin already have the huge advantage in playing numbers, far more than any other county. Far more clubs also. Does it cost 1.5 million or so per year to get kids from the Southside to see a hurl or O'Neills size 5?  Is that what you're sticking to?

As we've discussed before, the playing population is small compared to what it could be. And when you have such a big population to convert to Gaelic Games in order to secure their survival in an urban enviroment with a lot of different competition, then yes I am sticking to it.

As my earlier table points out, yes every county gets games development funds but Dublin get around 1.5million while the next highest gets around 100,000 while some counties have to make do with 40,000! How do Dublin need it more than everyone else? You think Dublin deserve the special treatment? Dublin make revenue and even more if they're successful, hence why this money was and is given to Dublin.

You really are a slow learner - Dublin gets more because it has more players than anyone else, Dublin gets more because there is a huge population beyond that who could be players, and this money is spent on on clubs, game development, training squads from u-12s up - all of which other counties do, but a lot of them don;t do it as effectively as Dublin. This feeds into our senior teams and it is possible for every other county to do this. Dublin county board on the other hand, does its own business, sponsorship and revenue deals - a lot of this money is spent on our senior teams. A lot of other counties are looking at this model to emulate it and appoint commercial directors. Fair dues to them if they do.

They get handed 1.5million for games development per year, even Brian Cowen could marshall those kind of resources. It's indisputable that the current success has been bought for them, undeniable. They never won anything in hurling on their own and now look! I've spelt it out here for you in the simplest terms.

No they never won anything in hurling - except 6 All Ireland and 24 Leinster titles. And it should have been two more except the team of the late eighties and early nineties ran up against Offaly and Kilkenny sides who were brilliant in the final. You wouldn't remember Bryan McMahon would you? You know nothing about Dublin GAA and yet you spend your days on here trolling about it.  What a waste of time.

Hopefully it wasn't too complicated for you. 

Nothing you say is complicated. Back under the bridge troll.

[Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.]

Of course what he leaves out are the figures for 74 to 85 - for instance 6 Leinster titles in a row, six AllIreland finals in a row and 3 All Ireland titles.

I should have put the same amount of years previous the millions to post the millions on my comparison, that would have been fair but I put 20 years previous and still you aint happy.

And the figures for say, I dunno, Kerry over the same periods of time.

I'll do the stats for Kerry when you provide the figures that show them receiving more than 1 million per year off the GAA.

And also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables   completely skewed and irrelevant

So Dublin have the population advantage and you still think it's fair they get about 1,500,000 yearly?

And he never comments on the fact that in the years of the biggest allocations 2009 we were beaten by was it 17 points by Kerry in a quarter final, 2008 we were beaten by Tyrone by 12 points in a quarter final, 2007 we were beaten by Kerry by 2 points in a semi final. So going by Dont Matter's "logic" the increased cash must have been making our performances worse, given that there is such a proven link between cash and results.

The money in the table is for games development, it doesn't include money for team expenses or anything else. You understand what games development means or do I need to explain it?

His logic is "indefensable". Here's a clip of him compiling his stats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.

Did you make it home yet?

The reason I quoted the 70s is to illustrate the point that Dublin were successful in that period without the financial backing that you are so annoyed about, and were unsuccessful between 1995- 2011 with it - thus disproving your point that money buys All Irelands.

I don't have to show Kerry receiving millions from the GAA because I don't claim money buys All Irelands - you are claiming that, so to prove your point you should be able to show a link between finance and Kerry's dominance. Can you do that? Of course not.

Dublin have an advantage in that there is more people in the county than any other - however, relative to the actual population, our playing numbers are actually small. The GAA took the decision a long time ago that having a county where over a quarter of the population lives with huge areas completely uninterested in the GAA was unsustainable for the Association as a whole. As you noted yourself, the money is for games development which happens in areas where the games are not popular - not buying All Irelands for the Dublin county team (but if evangelizing the games in areas of the Southside where no hurl or O'Neills size 5 have ever been seen means more players for the county team, than happy days)

The money in the table is for games development, it doesn't include money for team expenses or anything else. You understand what games development means or do I need to explain it?

You do realise that you are completely contradicting yourself here? Every county gets money for games development and as I explained above, Dublin happens to need more than any other. But they are also, over the last 25 years, in good years and bad, the biggest revenue generator for the GAA. What has changed in the past five years is the foresight and planning of the county board, neither of those values are exclusive to Dublin - nor can they be bought.

Dublin deserve credit for how they have planned, how they have marshalled their resources and how they are spreading the games into areas they haven't been before. But anyone who believes it was bought for them, or that the current dominance will transform into a permanent hegemony, doesn't know their history,or is a troll or is a moron. Or in Don't Matter's case, all three.

Of course what he leaves out are the figures for 74 to 85 - for instance 6 Leinster titles in a row, six AllIreland finals in a row and 3 All Ireland titles.

And the figures for say, I dunno, Kerry over the same periods of time.

And also the fact that Dublin has a far bigger population than any other county, thus making his tables   completely skewed and irrelevant

And he never comments on the fact that in the years of the biggest allocations 2009 we were beaten by was it 17 points by Kerry in a quarter final, 2008 we were beaten by Tyrone by 12 points in a quarter final, 2007 we were beaten by Kerry by 2 points in a semi final. So going by Dont Matter's "logic" the increased cash must have been making our performances worse, given that there is such a proven link between cash and results.

His logic is "indefensable". Here's a clip of him compiling his stats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Somewhere a village is crying out for its idiot.

Well lads it needs to be sorted, why isn't anyone backing me up? It's always defended even by non Dubs. I regularly am up protesting outside of Croke Park, I have a couple of different banners I use. One is 'stop treating us like the blacks, this is our home too'. You'd think someone in the media would cover it but they're thinking of their pockets also, only pro Dub stories allowed. It's like apartheid around here boys, and I'm the only Nelson Mandela willing to fight.

Joke or not, I can do without reading this kind of crap. Casual racism is casual racism, whether it is done in an "ironic" manner or not.

I always thought of the board as the online equivalent of a clubhouse and there is plenty of them up and own the country with foreign born players, kids etc. I don't know how many of those GAA people would feel welcome here. No need for this kind of knuckle dragging.

BTW as a Dub i have no problem travelling down the country for league or champo - had a brilliant time in Longford 04 and the two weekends against Kerry in 01 were classic, despite the result.

they were probably left out of the original black card offences because of the prevalence of attackers holding defenders arms when they come over the shoulder and buying frees (not saying that happened in either of the incidents being discussed here)

A bit of hysteria here around jobs - TV3 have been shedding full time jobs for years, even with the GAA contracts, whereas Sky, when they broadcast from Ireland usually use Irish OB production facilities (of course TV3 would also have used Irish production facilities). Certainly there will be no jobs lost within those disciplines (freelancers move between productions all the time).

Just responding to a question from Fionntamhnach - the old GAA show that went out on Sky back in the late 90s, early noughties was called "Clash" - worked on it the odd time, it was an edited highlights package. It got rebranded around 2003? maybe to GAA2003/2004 etc.

They dropped it in around the time Setanta set up stand alone channels. But it was on Sky for at least six years.

All lot I agree with there Fionn, but I think your analysis is slightly skewed with regard to ratings on SS3.
I'll preface this by saying that I worked on a subscription channel for many years. And the first thing that matters to a subscription channel in terms of revenue are subscriptions, second is programme sponsorship and third (and it is always the revenue source that comes in under expectation) is between programme advertising.

Subscription channels (whether they are Sky or Setanta) cannot and do not rely on ratings. If they do, they will not last very long. So Sky will look at GAA not in terms of how many will watch, but how many they can induce to subscribe - they obviously think there is a business case for this. Given how much churn there has been with recession, people dumping their subs or scaling them back, often the acquisition of just one sport can be the tipping point to get them back. GAA might be that for a few thousand people - remember they don't need hundreds of thousands watching for it to be viable.

Just on SS3 ratings, Sky have pursued a policy of branding their channels over the past few years - so football appears mainly on SS1, cricket on SS2, golf on SS4. You don't see them moving the Ashes off SS2 to SS1 for it to get more viewers - the same with the golf. When you get a subscription you get all 4 - I don't think Sky are looking at SS3 as a ratings graveyard for GAA - I think during the summer, it just means that SS2 will be busy with cricket, SS4 with golf, and there is no point putting it on SS1 as there will be clashes when the Premier League returns in August.

Lastly, there has been comparisons (not by you Fionn!) of the GAA with speedway, netball etc. This misses the point by a fair way. TV rights for those sports would ve very cheap, non existent in some cases - they are practically begging for Sky coverage. With the GAA, Sky entered a competitive rights market and spent a lot of money (especially given the uncertainty surrounding Heineken Cup and the their loss of the Champions League) for a sports package that it is hugely important to Ireland - a territory that is being bitterly contested by themselves and BT in both TV subs and broadband packages (I'm including UPC as the BT proxy here). They have to make a big deal of it - maybe not as big as Premier League of course, but certainly you'd hope the production values would be on a par with their Heineken Cup coverage.