Clerical abuse!

Started by D4S, May 20, 2009, 05:09:14 PM

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We all know this disgusting scandal is as a result of The Church and The State, but who do you hold mostly accountable, and should therefore pay out the most in compensation to victims?

The State
The Church
Split 50/50

tonto1888

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 10:10:37 PM
Zzzzzzzz.The only consolation I take is that this thread is not in any way representative of Public Opinion in the real world.That's why Bishop Mc Areavey (who apologised for errors of judgement honestly and did not deny he made any) remains on the Board of Governors of St Colmans and Sean Brady gets standing ovations at Armagh Finals.

They are,like scores of others,mere footnotes in the utterly depraved lives of Brendan Smyth and Malachy Finnegan.

You're full of it and have no idea of what public opinion in the real world is

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 07:52:58 PM
More hypocrisy.What if relatives of Sean Brady or Bishop Mc Areavey read this Board? To blame these two men for the monstrosities that were Brendan Smyth and Finnegan is outrageous.Just as is the case with the BBC,Professional Soccer and just about every other organisation paedophiles escaped justice and ruined lives due to a multitude of failings at all levels.

One of the great sins of your Church is the sin of omission.

In Catholic teaching, an omission is a failure to do something one can and ought to do. If an omission happens deliberately and freely, it is considered a sin.

Therefore, by failing to inform the civil authorities of abuse or failing to deal correctly with the abuser or doing whatever is required to ensure the abuser could not repeat offend, the bishops you mention have committed sins of omission. Therefore within the rules of your Church the clerical hierarchy have seriously sinned.

How do you explain this away?

Rawhide

I know of one such parent that Tony blames. This parent was born into a catholic home, a poor home, opportunities back in the late 40's were few and far between, not every catholic got the chance to get educated at third level back then, instead she had to leave school at 14 to bring what ever income into the family home she could. At school she, like every other child was brow beaten into believing everything in the Catholic Church was sacred, the priest was infallible, salute the priest when you met them, their minds were systematically manipulated to the point where they were brain washed that the Catholic Church was infallible. Then we have the paedophilic priests who are treated the same as 'safe priests' because of this brainwashing as children in our catholic school system of the 40's which has more or less remained the same up until recently where inspections and audits as well as educated parents ensures better practise and standards. These are the parents that Tony refers to, the parents who were a sponge  for a brainwashing system that conditioned these children who later became parents to not ever question the morality of the pedestal  priest, because they simply did not know any better. The church depended on these people who had little hope of a better life but clung unto 'hope' Hope of a better place in the next world.
cccc is a true supporter lol

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 10:10:37 PM
Zzzzzzzz.The only consolation I take is that this thread is not in any way representative of Public Opinion in the real world.That's why Bishop Mc Areavey (who apologised for errors of judgement honestly and did not deny he made any) remains on the Board of Governors of St Colmans and Sean Brady gets standing ovations at Armagh Finals.

They are,like scores of others,mere footnotes in the utterly depraved lives of Brendan Smyth and Malachy Finnegan.

Bishop McAreavey is on the Board of Governors because he appointed himself onto the Board because he is the current bishop of Dromore.  He can only be removed by resigning as Bishop or being removed as bishop by the Archbishop - neither of which will happen.

Rawhide

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 11:25:43 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on February 17, 2018, 11:10:18 PM
I know of one such parent that Tony blames. This parent was born into a catholic home, a poor home, opportunities back in the late 40's were few and far between, not every catholic got the chance to get educated at third level back then, instead she had to leave school at 14 to bring what ever income into the family home she could. At school she, like every other child was brow beaten into believing everything in the Catholic Church was sacred, the priest was infallible, salute the priest when you met them, their minds were systematically manipulated to the point where they were brain washed that the Catholic Church was infallible. Then we have the paedophilic priests who are treated the same as 'safe priests' because of this brainwashing as children in our catholic school system of the 40's which has more or less remained the same up until recently where inspections and audits as well as educated parents ensures better practise and standards. These are the parents that Tony refers to, the parents who were a sponge  for a brainwashing system that conditioned these children who later became parents to not ever question the morality of the pedestal  priest, because they simply did not know any better. The church depended on these people who had little hope of a better life but clung unto 'hope' Hope of a better place in the next world.

You are in effect describing my own parents.They had no education,and believed in everything the Church said.But even though they were uneducated they were not brainwashed and would have let nobody take them for fools.Your dismissal of that generation is arrogant and condescending and does not reflect well on you.They had lives tougher than anything we could imagine but got on with it,not like the current educated snowflake generation.I don't think even the most ardent anti Catholic believes the Church facilitated child abuse.Without doubt the handling of the matter was woeful within the Church,as it was everywhere else,BBC,Professional football etc.Maybe we can all just agree that thankfully things are a hell of a lot better today,in terms of protection of the vulnerable.

No Tony, you like me were fortunate that one of these paedophilic priests were either not placed into our schoools, parishes, or if they were they didn't prey on us, sad to say it had feck all to do with our parents.
You could argue pure luck
cccc is a true supporter lol

smelmoth

#2270
Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 11:40:30 AM
So when does this "hold" end? When the victims grow up and smell the money?

Even you couldn't deny that you are a viciously unpleasant moron

smelmoth

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 04:49:35 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 17, 2018, 01:37:55 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 01:01:33 PM
Zzzzz.They are not bad children.Just unfortunate.Children need to know from an early age that their parents are their rock and refuge and encouraged to tell their parents everything.

Except the when parents are handing their children over to a person of trust, 'in loco parentis' and when the parents are also being groomed and to an extent also abused by the person in trust which has been the case in virtually all cases of clerical abuse where the abuser has used his position in the community.  This abuse of trust is further extended within your Church to the hierarchy who have covered up the abuse not only by moving the abuser but by using their positions to prevent parents from gaining justice for their children, e.g. the Brady-Smyth case.

Did the parents as well as Sean Brady not know? If they did why did they not go to the Police? Why didn't they all do what those two young brothers from Portadown did? TELL THEIR PARENTS

Are these questions of the parents supposed to excuse Brady'a abuse facilitating actions?

smelmoth

Quote from: Targetman on February 17, 2018, 06:52:20 PM
A delegation of parents of P7 pupils at St.Patricks primary school in Hilltown met Bishop McAreavey and told him they didn't want him confirming their children, the parish priest Fr Byrne is now confirming them, they also expressed their wish to see the parochial house flattened!!

An example of good parenting that nobody could disagree with.

It's time for parents to look at their schools. Who is on the board of governors and why? What is their qualification? What is their track record? Clearly anybody involved in the cover up of child abuse or failure to act to protect children should be removed from the role as unfit

smelmoth

Quote from: Targetman on February 17, 2018, 07:51:25 PM
Quote from: longballin on February 17, 2018, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: Targetman on February 17, 2018, 06:52:20 PM
A delegation of parents of P7 pupils at St.Patricks primary school in Hilltown met Bishop McAreavey and told him they didn't want him confirming their children, the parish priest Fr Byrne is now confirming them, they also expressed their wish to see the parochial house flattened!!

Excellent if it's true... can a priest do confirmation?
I'm no expert on this matter, but I was speaking to one of the parents and that's what I was told, it'll be interesting to see if any other parishes follow suit, and the reasoning behind it is obviously the fact that McAreavey knew what Finnegan had been guilty of and took no action, fair play to the parents, did he think the letter that was read out at mass last week and an apology would sort everything

Certainly other parishes have done the same in respect of other clerics. This was the basis of Brady being removed from the confirmation circuit. Parents they didn't want him

smelmoth

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 07:52:58 PM
More hypocrisy.What if relatives of Sean Brady or Bishop Mc Areavey read this Board? To blame these two men for the monstrosities that were Brendan Smyth and Finnegan is outrageous.Just as is the case with the BBC,Professional Soccer and just about every other organisation paedophiles escaped justice and ruined lives due to a multitude of failings at all levels.

They are being blamed for their own actions. Those actions are being judged to be horrific.

When somebody's actions allows an abuser to continue to abuse its fair ro call out the abuser and the facilitator. It's not complex. Only the anti-logic brigade would fail to realise this

smelmoth

Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 10:10:37 PM
Zzzzzzzz.The only consolation I take is that this thread is not in any way representative of Public Opinion in the real world.That's why Bishop Mc Areavey (who apologised for errors of judgement honestly and did not deny he made any) remains on the Board of Governors of St Colmans and Sean Brady gets standing ovations at Armagh Finals.

They are,like scores of others,mere footnotes in the utterly depraved lives of Brendan Smyth and Malachy Finnegan.
Let's invite Brady to this years final.
Let McAreavey make a cameo appearance at confirmation in Hilltown.

And the media report the public reception

Let St Colmans make a statement on the fitness and probity of their Board of Governors

smelmoth

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on February 17, 2018, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 17, 2018, 10:10:37 PM
Zzzzzzzz.The only consolation I take is that this thread is not in any way representative of Public Opinion in the real world.That's why Bishop Mc Areavey (who apologised for errors of judgement honestly and did not deny he made any) remains on the Board of Governors of St Colmans and Sean Brady gets standing ovations at Armagh Finals.

They are,like scores of others,mere footnotes in the utterly depraved lives of Brendan Smyth and Malachy Finnegan.

Bishop McAreavey is on the Board of Governors because he appointed himself onto the Board because he is the current bishop of Dromore.  He can only be removed by resigning as Bishop or being removed as bishop by the Archbishop - neither of which will happen.

If in the course of an interview for a position at St Colmans you admitted that you knew of an abuser but did nothing what would be the outcome? Would it hinge on whether or not you had said sorry?

smelmoth

Quote from: T Fearon on February 18, 2018, 09:13:45 AM
Are you trying to break the record for most moronic posts in ten minutes? The Church has to have an input into the running of its own schools.Similarly the Church,not the parents,chooses who will administer its own sacraments,not the other way round.

If parents no longer want their children to have a catholic education,and the huge benefits that brings both academically and spiritually,let them withdraw their children and put them into an integrated or state school.

So in summary you argue that McAreavey will officiate in Hilltown and the parents will lump it and that any parent who objects to someone who fails to act on child abuse issues being involved in a school should and in fact will be told to withdraw their child from the school.

I suppose time will tell.

Look up the word moronic. Prepare yourself for some self reflection

Dubh driocht

Quote from: hardstation on February 18, 2018, 12:39:10 AM
I think it is impossible for anyone to know how they would react in such circumstances. Including the demeanour they would display to other people.
Tony, I am in the minority on the board who find some of your posts valuable in that you actually think for yourself and don't follow the party line. However in this debate you have got it completely wrong and Hardstation has got it completely right. I don't know you but knew your late brother; a super guy. It's clear you had good, strong,articulate parents. Not everyone did.

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: T Fearon on February 18, 2018, 11:13:43 AM
But the demonisation of individuals like Sean Brady and Bishop Mc Areavey for mistakes they made years ago (and they were let down by the system) gets on my goat.

Bishops McAreavey and Brady are just two examples of where hierarchy did not just 'make mistakes' they were unlike Jesus in that they were complying with Canon Law, a Church defined doctrine, instead of 'doing the right thing', otherwise defined by the Catholic Church as a sin of Omission. Canon Law is a device used by the Church for its self protection and it is still being put ahead of natural justice by the Church.