Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[jb81]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

I forgot about McAliskey actually. Hope he returns well from the injury, would be very good option to have in the FF line. Has a bit of strength and ball winning about him.
The Mattie Donnelly one is the problem. the last two years he lined out at midfield and played around there, 2 all stars. This year he lined out at CF and played anywhere and everywhere but it didn't work for him, did he really know what he should be doing.. It also means we are losing out on lining out another possible scoring forward.. I think he has to line out at midfield and let us have another forward on the field

[Dire Ear]

MDonnelly is far too slow,  don't know where you would play him

[omagh_gael]

I think our championship line up next year should look something like this...

Morgan
Hampsey
McNamee
McCarron
McCann
R Brennan
Harte
Donnelly
Colm Cav
McClure
Sludden
Mulgrew
L Brennan
Bradley
McAliskey

I'd have the team line up something like....

                                   Morgan

Hampsey                McNamee                     McCarron

                 McCann                    Brennan       
                               
                                 Colm Cav

McClure     Sludden     Harte     Donnelly         Mulgrew

                                    Bradley

                      L Brennan        McAliskey
   
There has to more commitment to attack and to do that we'd have no option but to give our defence more responsibility. Mayo play two men up front and Doherty as a link man between their defensive structure and forward unit. This gives the opposition no option but to leave more men back 'tagging.' Tiernan McCann talked about this on Wooly's podcast that last year Mayo stumped them because they commited more men forward. He, and the other defenders, had no option but to hang back and tag their men therefore almost wiping out our gameplan. Looking back with hindsight it was foolish to think this system could stump the Dubs. I suppose that's were our natural county bias clouds our rational thinking.

[clarshack]

as others have said. McCarron is done at this level.

also don't think you can get away with having 2 small players in the forward line.  it's one or the other, if even that.

[Tyrone Gaa]

I actually don't know where I sit regarding the Harte situation.  At the start of the year I said he had to show progress and went onto clarify that progress would be winning against a Dublin, Kerry or Mayo something we hadn't done for years.  After the public humiliation that was Sunday My head is saying he has to go but my heart is saying another year he might be able to change it up.

I would love to know the thoughts of the players regarding the management.  Obviously Mickey rules the roost, players don't speak with RTE and that's respected until 10 minutes after they retire or leave the setup, so do they really respect the manager or is it a case of if you don't you will be dropped.

Its the unanswered questions.  If Mickey has the 100% backing of the players that will support his management even when he is outside the room then I'd be up for an extension.  I'm also wondering who do you replace him with?  Fergal Logan?? I don't think so.  Paul Devlin has shown that he isn't the man. 

[omagh_gael]

Would it be worthwhile picking someone like Donnelly or McClure and try to develop them as inside men? Spend the whole winter and spring developing an alternative to the current approach.

I still find it crazy how rigid our tactics can be. If you look at soccer there can be occasions when the total tactical approach changes depending on the situation within a game. A 4-4-2 can change to a 3-5-2 to adapt to the challenges faced dynamically. We've got our defensive system sussed and it will stiffle weaker opposition, we need something more dynamic to give the top teams more to think about. I see no reason why these can't be used even within games depending on circumstances.

[blewuporstuffed]

MDonnelly is far too slow,  don't know where you would play him

Mattie Donnelly certainly isn't slow.
He can slow the play down at times, but he has plenty of pace.
I think he has to line out at MF. 
This year at corner forward, or that free role or whatever he was doing just wasnt as effective

[Mikhailov]

Now that the dust has started to settle and the reality is setting in, a few points regarding Sunday and the situation we find ourselves in as a county going forward;

1. We are better than Sunday and I don't think Dublin are as good as we made them look albeit they were very impressive on the day
2. If Mayo learn from our mistakes then they will give Dublin all they want and may be victorious on the day but they will have to be at their best
3. Our system as has been alluded to several times is only functional when you are in front
4. We were too 'nice' on Sunday
5. We had one of the best teams of all time (03-08) with some legendary players but they all had a nasty, competitive and win at all costs attitude - we didn't have that on Sunday past.
6. Our 'big' players failed to turn up in Croke Park again when it mattered ala Kerry '14, Mayo '16. They weren't let play
7. Taking off Mark Bradley was insulting to the player - the sacrificial lamb who played against 3 players all game and was isolated and we take him off early like an underage club coach....take the wee corn8er forward off first FFS !!!
8. We obviously have no plan B.....or we do have the belief that we will NOT need a plan B....
9. All year we met opposition teams on the '45 with our defensive wall - this did not happen on Sunday - we met them at the D if at all. It seemed that we decided that if we keep out the goals then we win - O'Callaghan put an end to that ploy after a few minutes.
10. Morgan didn't take any '45's, all year he bolted up the pitch to take them...
11. we had no support runners all game,  our player on the ball was isolated (Dublin made sure this happened with their blocking of runners, pulling and hauling) - did we not expect this to happen. This is a standard tactic for Dublin !!
12. Sean Cavanagh, McCarron and possibly Justy will quit, other players may decide to pull the pin as the gap is too large and they are not prepared to sit on the bench all year and be used only for in house 15v15 games....

13. We are NOT in the top 3. the last 3 seasons have proved this...
14. The super 8's actually will benefit us as we are guaranteed 3 games if we get that far - we need to start winning big games again.
15. Ulster titles mean nothing ....unless you back it up with a big win in Croker
16. Who would want the Tyrone job - you have to win an AI to be deemed a success - this wont happen short term

17. Lets look forward to some club football - put us out of our misery....our 3 club championships are wide open.

[longballin]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-virtually-a-criminal-offence-to-criticise-him-in-tyrone-joe-brolly-on-mickey-hartes-future-36083493.html
This is so true....

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

I agree with much of this. I've been saying for ages that this system we play is pointless. It has never beaten anybody we couldn't beat anyway playing a more expansive style. We'd have won as much by committing more to attack, it would have been more entertaining to play in and to watch and it might have given us a puncher's chance in games like Sunday.

I was shocked to hear Mickey say he wouldn't be making any major changes as the system has served us well. It hasn't. It always fails against top opposition and being able to beat or at least compete with top opposition is the only reason you would play like this. We have wasted the last few years building a more limited version of Donegal circa 2012-2014 - a style of football that is arguably already old hat even if you do it as well Donegal did. It's ironic that Mickey often says football has moved on and people complaining about his tactics haven't moved with the times. Watching Tyrone chase shadows from the very early stages of Sunday it was clear that it was Mickey who was at the wheel of the Ford Anglia for these past few years.

Mickey has got a lot of praise the last few weeks and those who dared question his tactics were written off. But Sunday was the big test and Tyrone failed it very badly. Had they even made some kind of contest of it then you could make a good argument that he had earned another year. But there is no sign that lessons have been learned. We have wasted the last couple of years on a flawed system. Squandered the last couple of seasons of Sean Cavanagh in a county jersey. Everyone is saying his legs were gone on Sunday but it was hardly the correct role for a 34 year old. He should have spent the last two years close to goal with the likes of Harte, Sludden and Donnelly up the field to help out. All the talk last week was that we were the best prepared side to leave Ulster. In reality, given all the talent, time, money and effort put into a team that had no idea what to do after the 5th minute suggests we were, relatively speaking, the most poorly prepared team ever to leave Ulster.

Mickey is a legend and there would be no guarantee that Tyrone would appoint a better manager. But I do think he has had plenty of chances now and isn't making the best use of the talent at his disposal. Time for a change.

[omagh_gael]

Mikhailov, point 10 is interesting as I watched Morgan being called up for a long range free but he didn't go. I'm nearly sure it was the one off the ground Petey Harte scored in first half.

[driveherin]

Harte has to go....everyone lauds him for 3 all Irelands!! He actually should have won more with the group of players he had!!! Sorry...

[Club boi]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

I agree with much of this. I've been saying for ages that this system we play is pointless. It has never beaten anybody we couldn't beat anyway playing a more expansive style. We'd have won as much by committing more to attack, it would have been more entertaining to play in and to watch and it might have given us a puncher's chance in games like Sunday.

I was shocked to hear Mickey say he wouldn't be making any major changes as the system has served us well. It hasn't. It always fails against top opposition and being able to beat or at least compete with top opposition is the only reason you would play like this. We have wasted the last few years building a more limited version of Donegal circa 2012-2014 - a style of football that is arguably already old hat even if you do it as well Donegal did. It's ironic that Mickey often says football has moved on and people complaining about his tactics haven't moved with the times. Watching Tyrone chase shadows from the very early stages of Sunday it was clear that it was Mickey who was at the wheel of the Ford Anglia for these past few years.

Mickey has got a lot of praise the last few weeks and those who dared question his tactics were written off. But Sunday was the big test and Tyrone failed it very badly. Had they even made some kind of contest of it then you could make a good argument that he had earned another year. But there is no sign that lessons have been learned. We have wasted the last couple of years on a flawed system. Squandered the last couple of seasons of Sean Cavanagh in a county jersey. Everyone is saying his legs were gone on Sunday but it was hardly the correct role for a 34 year old. He should have spent the last two years close to goal with the likes of Harte, Sludden and Donnelly up the field to help out. All the talk last week was that we were the best prepared side to leave Ulster. In reality, given all the talent, time, money and effort put into a team that had no idea what to do after the 5th minute suggests we were, relatively speaking, the most poorly prepared team ever to leave Ulster.

Mickey is a legend and there would be no guarantee that Tyrone would appoint a better manager. But I do think he has had plenty of chances now and isn't making the best use of the talent at his disposal. Time for a change.

100%

What Harte done in the past was remarkable, he will forever be a legend in Tyrone for bringing home 3 All Irelands but its now 9 years since and we havent even come close to winning it again. I cant remember a year since 08 when we can say "Tyrone were unlucky there, that team could've won the AI"

Fact is No other "Big" County would tolerate it

[LeoMc]

If a new Manager is appointed he has to be given time, 3-5 years to develop. My fear is that after 1 or 2 poor results or 1 early exit there would be a clamour for his head.

[Tyrone Gaa]

Clubs in the county don't give their managers breathing space because their paying that under performing manager, fail and your gone!! Will the clubs advise their county board delegates to back or sack Mickey that's what it comes down to only difference its not their money its other funds from the county purse that would go to Mickey.

Only man in the club football living on past glories is Damien Cassidy and if Clonoe exit this year I wouldn't expect a renewal.