Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Evil Genius]

That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?

You mean the Strategic Reports "prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years"

No, I've not read them. Nor can I see why they have any relevance to the issue under discussion, which is who is to blame for the present debacle at Casement.

It seems obvious that this was the fault of Ulster GAA for submitting plans for a stadium which was never going to gain Planning Permission (for safety reasons) on their chosen site. Then instead of revising those plans to a design which would receive PP, or finding another site, they merely submitted them again, only to receive the same answer.

But while we're demanding answers, care to respond to my question where I asked whether you would be happy to permit your children to watch a game or attend a concert at a venue which independent experts consider to be fundamentally unsafe to host large crowds?

[Ronnie]

That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?

You mean the Strategic Reports "prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years"

No, I've not read them. Nor can I see why they have any relevance to the issue under discussion, which is who is to blame for the present debacle at Casement.

It seems obvious that this was the fault of Ulster GAA for submitting plans for a stadium which was never going to gain Planning Permission (for safety reasons) on their chosen site. Then instead of revising those plans to a design which would receive PP, or finding another site, they merely submitted them again, only to receive the same answer.

But while we're demanding answers, care to respond to my question where I asked whether you would be happy to permit your children to watch a game or attend a concert at a venue which independent experts consider to be fundamentally unsafe to host large crowds?

I've stood in Casement Park with 25,000+, I've stood in Ravenhill with my kids which is A1 fantastic and I've sat in Windsor Pk which is also splendid.   The 'most unsafe' we ever felt was when a section of Windsor were singing 'up to our necks in fenian blood'.   We like all sports and support all.  So, no, I'm not happy when my sons feel unsafe.  Now go away the feck

[manfromdelmonte]

Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast

[Milltown Row2]

Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast

So have it somewhere else?

[Ronnie]

I agree that the games are more important than the buildings.  But  I was shocked recently when a mate told me that some major Belfast clubs were amalgamating at minor hurling level.   Genuinely shocked.   Some posters on here know the details.    For arguments sake:  if Croke Pk had been housed and a green field site developed mid-Leinster, early 90s how many children wouldn't have had the benefit of playing Gaelic football and Hurling?   This isn't pie in the sky economics.   This is sports science.  Ulster Rugby & IFA also have their work cut out.   Sports unites, doesn't divide unlike some posters on here.   Bit like GFA's Irish, British, Both & neither.   Any business owner - including the hotel lobby - in Belfast wants Casement built.   It's only a matter of time.

[Evil Genius]

I've stood in Casement Park with 25,000+, I've stood in Ravenhill with my kids which is A1 fantastic and I've sat in Windsor Pk which is also splendid.   The 'most unsafe' we ever felt was when a section of Windsor were singing 'up to our necks in fenian blood'.   We like all sports and support all.  So, no, I'm not happy when my sons feel unsafe.  Now go away the feck

So you're saying you know more about stadium safety than independent experts, then?

The problem with the Casement proposal was not that it couldn't be built to accommodate 40k spectators. Rather it was that if those 40k needed to be evacuated in an emergency, this could not be done safely or quickly enough, due to the constraints of the site.

Or was that not your experience from any of the emergency evacuations you were involved in at Ravenhill, Casement or Windsor?

[Evil Genius]

Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast

Following the decision to scrap the multi-use Maze Stadium, the government redistributed the money amongst the three bodies on condition that it be used to build three single-use replacement stadia instead.

So the govt money could not legally have been spent as you suggest above. Meanwhile, one of the reasons why the GAA was allocated so big a share (£62m) was because they were also prepared to invest a further £15m of their own money (fair enough). It was their intention that £77m would build them a state of the art 40k capacity stadium on the Casement site. Of course, as we now know, that ambition was never going to be realised, because the physical constaints of the site meant it could never gain Planning Permission.

However, had they redirected their £15m to the sorts of purpose you suggest above, and instead accepted a lesser amount from HMG (say £40m? I'm guessing), they likely could have built a more modest stadium of 20-25k capacity (another guess) with that, thereby having their cake and eating it.

[Ronnie]

Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

[johnnycool]

Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

[RadioGAAGAA]

How many Strategic Reports have you read?

I have yet to meet a page that refused ink...

[Ronnie]

Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.

[Ronnie]

Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.

And, no, before someone asks... "I predict a Riot'.    I didn't go in expectation of seeing it a bit of agro.  " It is possible to predict a riot."   Discuss.

[johnnycool]

Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.

And, no, before someone asks... "I predict a Riot'.    I didn't go in expectation of seeing it a bit of agro.  " It is possible to predict a riot."   Discuss.

I see the Bernabeu was built in the 40's so dare I suggest that health and safety and evacuation planning was nowhere near as advanced as now and as you say you didn't feel safe.

It probably wouldn't be allowed to be built in this day and age.

[Eire90]

if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.

[manfromdelmonte]

if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.

There's no way Dublin would play any game after the first round out of Croke Park.