Hmm, what to discuss
Financial Doping
Home Ground
Death Rattle of the Leinster SFC
€35 on the day ticket price
attendance
Fixtures - 3 games on the trot for Kildare
I suppose we could take about the football but would it serve any real purpose.
Kildare were very wasteful in the first 20 mins against Longford, a repeat against Dublin will see the game over pretty much by then, so we need to be as clinical as we have ever been to have any chance . I suspect we will go for it but as always with Kildare we will give up 1 or 2 soft goals and that will suck momentum and life out of us. Dublin won't be great, but they won't need to be. They will win by 8/9 points.
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
And after 4 games Kildare go to Round 2.
Sligo after 1 game in mid May go to Round 2.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 05, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
And after 4 games Kildare go to Round 2.
Sligo after 1 game in mid May go to Round 2.
Maybe there are more counties in Leinster
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 05, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
And after 4 games Kildare go to Round 2.
Sligo after 1 game in mid May go to Round 2.
Maybe there are more counties in Leinster
Maybe the structures are shit and still unfair after over a 100 years.
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 05, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
And after 4 games Kildare go to Round 2.
Sligo after 1 game in mid May go to Round 2.
Maybe there are more counties in Leinster
Maybe the structures are shit and still unfair after over a 100 years.
The qualifiers are banjaxed as a concept
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
:D here we go again what, its the same hymne sheet.
Dublin get good grant money yes and put it to good use for the betterment of the children, club members and non club members, sons and daughters of, as you put them, immigrants from the country" or as i would put them, my fellow country man, women.
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
:D here we go again what, its the same hymne sheet.
Dublin get good grant money yes and put it to good use for the betterment of the children, club members and non club members, sons and daughters of, as you put them, immigrants from the country" or as i would put them, my fellow country man, women.
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Any examples here? And I mean actual facts. The Dublin grant money is black and white, irrefutable.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
:D here we go again what, its the same hymne sheet.
Dublin get good grant money yes and put it to good use for the betterment of the children, club members and non club members, sons and daughters of, as you put them, immigrants from the country" or as i would put them, my fellow country man, women.
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Any examples here? And I mean actual facts. The Dublin grant money is black and white, irrefutable.
It is irrefutable, and its brilliant for Dublin GAA and for children of non gaa backrounds to get the chance to express themselves at our national game, if anything more cash should be injected into it, needs expansion.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
:D here we go again what, its the same hymne sheet.
Dublin get good grant money yes and put it to good use for the betterment of the children, club members and non club members, sons and daughters of, as you put them, immigrants from the country" or as i would put them, my fellow country man, women.
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Any examples here? And I mean actual facts. The Dublin grant money is black and white, irrefutable.
This guy can't be Ewan McKenna, sure he never bothers with fact in his reporting.
Dublin GAA remaind me of a nature documentary I once seen on the Cuckoo. You probably have all seen it. The Cuckoo lays her egg in another species nest. All the eggs hatch out and the Cuckoo chick proceeds to push all the other hatched chick out one by one. It proceeds to get fed on its own by the unbeknownst Parents of the other chicks.
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
It was? ???
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Massive clubs in Kildare? ;D
Numbers wise you're probably only looking at Naas and maybe Celbridge at a push. They would also be the two strongest hurling clubs in the county at the moment and promote both codes 50/50. The other big clubs in the county like Moorefield and Sarsfields have very little hurling.
Newbridge is evenly split between Moorefield and Sarsfields. The rivalry probably benefits football in Newbridge compared to Naas which has become too big for one club.
The likes of Athy, Round Towers (Kildare town) and Clane would be no different from any other small town clubs in other counties. Leixlip is split between St Mary's and Confey and the place is full of Dubs. Maynooth is also a smallish club because the place does not have a big native population once you factor in the number of students living there.
Kildare football teams would still have a big representation from smaller rural clubs like Johnstownbridge, Carbury, St Laurence's, Two Mile House, Allenwood, Monasterevin etc.
Kildare's form is simply not there this year the loss of Daniel Flynn to their side can't be underestimated. Finished 4th in Div 2 (much worse than Div 1 relegation last year when they gave a good account of themselves in most games) and in the championship thus far fell over the line against Wicklow and needed two games to beat a Longford team missing some key players. 3 games in 3 weeks is certainly something Kildare could have done without especially when that 3rd game is v the Dubs in Croke park
Dublin 3-17 Kildare 0-12 i reckon.
Paul Cribbin's probably a bigger loss than Daniel Flynn. If we had those two we could keep it below 10, but we don't, so we won't
I always had a grá for Kildare football ever since the days of the great Pat Dunny and the 1966 under 21s. To me Kildare were a classy team who always chose to play football rather than get involved in the cynical stuff. Their decline therefore gives me no pleasure. The reasons for their decline can be debated but can only be addressed within Kildare. There's no point in scapegoating Dublin. If Dublin were to abandon Gaelic games tomorrow Kildare would still struggle to make it into the top ten teams.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on June 05, 2019, 11:05:16 PM
I always had a grá for Kildare football ever since the days of the great Pat Dunny and the 1966 under 21s. To me Kildare were a classy team who always chose to play football rather than get involved in the cynical stuff. Their decline therefore gives me no pleasure. The reasons for their decline can be debated but can only be addressed within Kildare. There's no point in scapegoating Dublin. If Dublin were to abandon Gaelic games tomorrow Kildare would still struggle to make it into the top ten teams.
If Dublin were to abandon Gaelic football tomorrow there would be Leinster Championship for starters. Can you imagine the hope there would be? There then would be an All Ireland Championship after that. At the moment we have the present mess we have. A mess that gives one county all the money, all the important home games and all the other tweaks.
The gas thing is - Dublin fans are bored. The only ones that go now are those who have gone in the past out of habit. This year is just a waiting game. Waiting to get to the Super 8's and see what the chasers can come up with.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 05, 2019, 02:01:25 PM
Quote from: TheGreatest on June 05, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Ewans back.
Can Kildare put up a performance against greatest naturally gifted team of any sport ever? or will they fold early.
Will Kildare go ultra defensive?
Will their be a tale back of 4x4s on the N7 for this?
With Kildares resources and population, they should be able to compete?
Ha! Most posters know my opinion of Ewan, he's actually claiming he highlighted the financial doping/home advantage that Dublin have. Fair to say he pretty much robbed it all from here and added his own research.
Kildare is more electric motors that 4x4s these days.
We don't do ultra defensive.
What resources? All the grant monies go to Dublin. A large part of our population tends to made of up immigrants from Dublin who have no sense of community or inclusion.
:D here we go again what, its the same hymne sheet.
Dublin get good grant money yes and put it to good use for the betterment of the children, club members and non club members, sons and daughters of, as you put them, immigrants from the country" or as i would put them, my fellow country man, women.
Sure Kildare was always part of Dublin, like parts of Meath and Wicklow, some Wicklow teams play in the Dublin leagues.
You cant blame Dublin for the years of wastefullness by the Kildare GAA comunity, some massive clubs, lots of money, lots of wealthy individuals, all put to waste, In particular extortionite amounts of cash to previous managment regimes.
Any examples here? And I mean actual facts. The Dublin grant money is black and white, irrefutable.
Don't bother. He made the same claim last year and was asked to back it up with facr several times. He never did.
He also never refused to deny payments to Dublins management.
Jack Robinson not good enough good enough for the senior panel yet? Looked like he was playing for Kildare juniors last night.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
Jack Robinson not good enough good enough for the senior panel yet? Looked like he was playing for Kildare juniors last night.
He took a year out to go travelling, came back last summer. He's good enough. Superbly talented minor.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 06, 2019, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
Jack Robinson not good enough good enough for the senior panel yet? Looked like he was playing for Kildare juniors last night.
He took a year out to go travelling, came back last summer. He's good enough. Superbly talented minor.
Watched him against Mayo minors in 2016 and he stood out a mile, barely noticed Hyland at all that day.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 06, 2019, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
Jack Robinson not good enough good enough for the senior panel yet? Looked like he was playing for Kildare juniors last night.
He took a year out to go travelling, came back last summer. He's good enough. Superbly talented minor.
Watched him against Mayo minors in 2016 and he stood out a mile, barely noticed Hyland at all that day.
Hyland was black carded in the first half of that game for getting pulled out of a brawl!!
Being in college out in Galway probably doesn't help Robinson getting a run with the seniors. Most of the students on Kildare panels would be in Maynooth, Carlow or in Dublin.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on June 06, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 06, 2019, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 06, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
Jack Robinson not good enough good enough for the senior panel yet? Looked like he was playing for Kildare juniors last night.
He took a year out to go travelling, came back last summer. He's good enough. Superbly talented minor.
Watched him against Mayo minors in 2016 and he stood out a mile, barely noticed Hyland at all that day.
Hyland was black carded in the first half of that game for getting pulled out of a brawl!!
Being in college out in Galway probably doesn't help Robinson getting a run with the seniors. Most of the students on Kildare panels would be in Maynooth, Carlow or in Dublin.
Same issue with Matthew Kelly.
God help ye poor dears.... 1 panellist far away ::)
Why isn't Masterson on the Kildare panel. Why is Flynn not a starter? What happened the brother Flynn?
Masterson left the panel despite a decent bit of game time in the league. Daniel's not interested this year. Luke in similar boat afaik.
I see Mannion got his red card overturned
QuoteThat appeal has been successful, the CHC ruling that the alleged infraction of "behaving in a way which is dangerous to an opponent" could not be proven
What does "could not be proven" mean? Surely there's footage and it's either dangerous or not (I didn't see the incident myself)? The whole suspension / appeals process could do with an overhaul
Very simple process -
If it's a Dublin player he didn't do it
Quote
Kildare and Dublin have met at interesting junctures in their respective histories. This weekend in Croke Park both is and isn't one of those occasions. Kildare aren't expected to do any better than gallantly lose and haven't actually beaten Dublin as All-Ireland champions since the 1903 season.
On the other hand, the champions are on the road towards what they hope will be history. Defeat mightn't derail that project but it would be a sensation.
The counties' fortunes aren't entirely separate, though. Some of Dublin's biggest successes have been helped along by the standards Kildare have set – like the protracted All-Ireland of 1903 when the 'home' final against eventual champions Kerry went to two replays.
The sequence is widely credited with establishing football as a major spectator sport, an achievement the counties would repeat in the 1920s to make it the pre-eminent sporting attraction in the country.
Kildare came back to win a first All-Ireland two years later and challenged, Dublin responded with a three-in-a-row from 1906-08.
One hundred years ago, by coincidence, Dublin halted Wexford's attempt at five-in-a-row, the first in GAA history but Kildare won that year's All-Ireland, driving Dublin to another three-in-a-row in the early years of the 1920s.
Even Dublin's most fabled era, the 1970s, has a Kildare story. The counties met in the 1974 NFL Division Two final and Kevin Heffernan's team lost, leaving no traces of what would be an imminent championship breakthrough.
Paddy Cullen, goalkeeper on the team and a future Dublin manager, had been around long enough to know that nothing was guaranteed in the fixture, having lost his only two championship matches against Kildare, but he said this obscure league final had an impact on the summer to come.
"We met in the Holyrood Hotel for dinner that evening and the conversation was all about how seriously did we want this – how tired were we of getting beaten all the time? We had lost something, not anything important, but something we should have won.
"Heffernan was pushing it and everyone was on the same hymn-sheet and attitudes changed. People got serious about what they were doing. Heffernan's position was that 'we're in this to win and if you're not, just tell me now and we'll shake hands and you can walk out that door'. That's the way it was."
Little over two months later, they reversed the league outcome in that July's Leinster semi-final.
Fate and fatalism
Given that the county had been so influential in the first 50 years of the GAA and remains one of the most enthusiastic in terms of activities, why have Kildare failed to win – or hardly contest – an All-Ireland since 1928 while their neighbours to the north, have banged off 14?
Eoghan Corry, GAA historian and writer (his 1989 book Catch and Kick is dedicated to 'the next Kildare team to win an All-Ireland') believes that it proved difficult for his county to adjust to a decline in prominence.
"Kildare have tended to be a top-10 team most of the time but they have very little to show for it over the years. There has been a sense of arrogance historically because they were so important in bringing Gaelic football from the margins of Irish sport, a rural, out-of-town activity to being centre-stage.
Paddy Cullen: former Dublin goalkeeper and manager. "Heffernan's position was that 'we're in this to win and if you're not, just tell me now and we'll shake hands and you can walk out that door'. That's the way it was."
"Until the 1920s, attendances at rugby or soccer internationals would exceed those at football and Kildare were participants in bringing Gaelic football ahead and setting new milestones. Since 1929 it has been the biggest spectator sport in Ireland.
"Kildare historically found it difficult to accept that it wasn't at the heart of this anymore.
"Even though two entire generations have grown up since Kildare last won the All-Ireland, there is a sense that the game is very strong there, still a very strong spectator sport. Even junior matches can get 3,000 or 4,000 attendances but at county level, Dublin are currently so far ahead that a sense of fatalism – that we will never actually reach that level – has set in."
Dublin look inward
While Kildare laboured after 1928, Dublin didn't do a whole lot better, winning one All-Ireland in 35 years between 1923 and '58 but there was a world of difference between those years. Until the 1920s Dublin had benefited from the requirement that those in the city for work-related reasons, had to play for their county of residence.
Ironically, this allowed them to enlist one of Kildare's great players, Larry Stanley, who was also an Olympic athlete.
Captain of the 1919 All-Ireland champions, Stanley was a Garda, eventually stationed in Dublin and upset at having been suspended by his own county for allegedly 'not trying' in a tournament match against Kerry - a charge with unspoken suggestions of betting irregularities.
According to Matthew Hussey's biography of Jack Higgins, another Kildare star of the era, Stanley's team-mates were outraged and in a signed letter to the authorities called for his reinstatement, which was refused.
Kildare manager Cian O'Neill. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Kildare manager Cian O'Neill. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Although rules on declaration changed, which allowed him play again for his own county and return to Kildare for the 1926 championship, he had lined out for the third of Dublin's three-in-a-row in 1923.
By the 1950s the St Vincent's revolution had taken place, insisting that Dublin players came from the county and, under the captaincy of Kevin Heffernan, the 1958 All-Ireland was won.
The age of revolution
Heffernan's arrival as manager in the 1970s came at a time of hardship for Dublin. In the words of Paddy Cullen:
"We were going around getting beaten by Westmeath in the championship in the late 1960s. Anyone and everyone was having a go at us at that time. Kildare actually had a very good team around that time even if they didn't win anything big."
As has been exhaustively chronicled, the new Dublin manager began by insisting on unheard-of levels of fitness, believing that an ability to outlast opponents would in itself be enough to win some matches.
"All of a sudden we were getting bigger and better," says Cullen. "He wanted us to be able to go for 90 minutes [in those years, championship matches lasted 80 minutes]. We all believed it and it worked."
This combined with a sharp tactical appreciation of how to exploit the upgraded capacity sent Dublin and Kerry, as Mick O'Dwyer cottoned on to the new approach, into a different orbit, which left Kildare resolutely earth-bound, according to Eoghan Corry.
"In 1974, Kildare were completely oblivious to the fitness revolution that Kevin Heffernan was about to launch. Things would end up passing them by. Two of the most one-sided Leinster finals of all time were in 1975 and '78. There was a great degree of talent in the Kildare team but the evolution of the game was leaving them behind.
"Kildare weren't part of the coaching and fitness revolution despite having been to the forefront of virtually every previous one.
"They spearheaded the first fitness revolution in the 1900s when collective training was introduced. They pioneered the hand-pass – there's arguments over who invented it but Kildare were the most successful exponents – and the hand-to-toe solo was also a big tactic in the county."
Now, all they could do was watch
Return of the Mick
Kildare's eventual reawakening had echoes of the 1970s when Mick O'Dwyer, having broken records with Kerry, took over the county in 1990. Within months, he had secured promotion to Division One and a place in the league final against Dublin, managed by Paddy Cullen.
"We were fairly lucky," he recalls, "that a Vinnie Murphy shot from about 40 metres dropped into the net over the 'keeper's head. We won and I said to Mick afterwards on the pitch that we had got away with it and that we had been lucky with that goal at the end.
"I also said, 'come championship, we'll do a good job on you'. We both laughed and shook hands and walked away but we did actually do a good job on them when we met in the championship."
It took two tours of duty but seven years later, and after five championship failures to beat Dublin in the 1990s, O'Dwyer delivered Kildare's first win in the fixture for 26 years to set up the county's only All-Ireland appearance since 1935. However frustratingly, Galway were too good.
Brian Fenton: Dublin's midfielder and four-time All-Ireland medal winner has yet to lose a senior championship game with the county. Photograph: Oisín Keniry/Inpho
Brian Fenton: Dublin's midfielder and four-time All-Ireland medal winner has yet to lose a senior championship game with the county. Photograph: Oisín Keniry/Inpho
"The weight of expectation on the players was intense," according to Corry. "It's a GAA-mad county, especially for somewhere that hasn't won anything in so long. If they had won they would have got rid of all those inhibitions. I'm not saying they would have dominated because there were good teams around at the time but the psychological blow of losing was significant."
Epilogue: failing the Tebbit test
The irony of Kildare's burgeoning population, says Corry, from a GAA perspective is that much of it comes from the surge in the capital's population.
"The support base has been seriously affected by the spillover from Dublin into Kildare. From 1971, the population has gone from just over 70,000 to 220,000 so it has effectively trebled in a 45-year period. When Dublin are playing the huge estates of the big towns in North Kildare – Leixlip, 22,000; Celbridge 24,000; Naas, 23,000 – are spilling out cars onto the road that are waving more blue flags than white.
"This means that of the thriving, under-age culture in Kildare an awful lot are actually Dublin supporters. There is a sovereignty issue!"
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2019, 06:52:41 AM
Quote
Kildare and Dublin have met at interesting junctures in their respective histories. This weekend in Croke Park both is and isn't one of those occasions. Kildare aren't expected to do any better than gallantly lose and haven't actually beaten Dublin as All-Ireland champions since the 1903 season.
On the other hand, the champions are on the road towards what they hope will be history. Defeat mightn't derail that project but it would be a sensation.
The counties' fortunes aren't entirely separate, though. Some of Dublin's biggest successes have been helped along by the standards Kildare have set – like the protracted All-Ireland of 1903 when the 'home' final against eventual champions Kerry went to two replays.
The sequence is widely credited with establishing football as a major spectator sport, an achievement the counties would repeat in the 1920s to make it the pre-eminent sporting attraction in the country.
Kildare came back to win a first All-Ireland two years later and challenged, Dublin responded with a three-in-a-row from 1906-08.
One hundred years ago, by coincidence, Dublin halted Wexford's attempt at five-in-a-row, the first in GAA history but Kildare won that year's All-Ireland, driving Dublin to another three-in-a-row in the early years of the 1920s.
Even Dublin's most fabled era, the 1970s, has a Kildare story. The counties met in the 1974 NFL Division Two final and Kevin Heffernan's team lost, leaving no traces of what would be an imminent championship breakthrough.
Paddy Cullen, goalkeeper on the team and a future Dublin manager, had been around long enough to know that nothing was guaranteed in the fixture, having lost his only two championship matches against Kildare, but he said this obscure league final had an impact on the summer to come.
"We met in the Holyrood Hotel for dinner that evening and the conversation was all about how seriously did we want this – how tired were we of getting beaten all the time? We had lost something, not anything important, but something we should have won.
"Heffernan was pushing it and everyone was on the same hymn-sheet and attitudes changed. People got serious about what they were doing. Heffernan's position was that 'we're in this to win and if you're not, just tell me now and we'll shake hands and you can walk out that door'. That's the way it was."
Little over two months later, they reversed the league outcome in that July's Leinster semi-final.
Fate and fatalism
Given that the county had been so influential in the first 50 years of the GAA and remains one of the most enthusiastic in terms of activities, why have Kildare failed to win – or hardly contest – an All-Ireland since 1928 while their neighbours to the north, have banged off 14?
Eoghan Corry, GAA historian and writer (his 1989 book Catch and Kick is dedicated to 'the next Kildare team to win an All-Ireland') believes that it proved difficult for his county to adjust to a decline in prominence.
"Kildare have tended to be a top-10 team most of the time but they have very little to show for it over the years. There has been a sense of arrogance historically because they were so important in bringing Gaelic football from the margins of Irish sport, a rural, out-of-town activity to being centre-stage.
Paddy Cullen: former Dublin goalkeeper and manager. "Heffernan's position was that 'we're in this to win and if you're not, just tell me now and we'll shake hands and you can walk out that door'. That's the way it was."
"Until the 1920s, attendances at rugby or soccer internationals would exceed those at football and Kildare were participants in bringing Gaelic football ahead and setting new milestones. Since 1929 it has been the biggest spectator sport in Ireland.
"Kildare historically found it difficult to accept that it wasn't at the heart of this anymore.
"Even though two entire generations have grown up since Kildare last won the All-Ireland, there is a sense that the game is very strong there, still a very strong spectator sport. Even junior matches can get 3,000 or 4,000 attendances but at county level, Dublin are currently so far ahead that a sense of fatalism – that we will never actually reach that level – has set in."
Dublin look inward
While Kildare laboured after 1928, Dublin didn't do a whole lot better, winning one All-Ireland in 35 years between 1923 and '58 but there was a world of difference between those years. Until the 1920s Dublin had benefited from the requirement that those in the city for work-related reasons, had to play for their county of residence.
Ironically, this allowed them to enlist one of Kildare's great players, Larry Stanley, who was also an Olympic athlete.
Captain of the 1919 All-Ireland champions, Stanley was a Garda, eventually stationed in Dublin and upset at having been suspended by his own county for allegedly 'not trying' in a tournament match against Kerry - a charge with unspoken suggestions of betting irregularities.
According to Matthew Hussey's biography of Jack Higgins, another Kildare star of the era, Stanley's team-mates were outraged and in a signed letter to the authorities called for his reinstatement, which was refused.
Kildare manager Cian O'Neill. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Kildare manager Cian O'Neill. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Although rules on declaration changed, which allowed him play again for his own county and return to Kildare for the 1926 championship, he had lined out for the third of Dublin's three-in-a-row in 1923.
By the 1950s the St Vincent's revolution had taken place, insisting that Dublin players came from the county and, under the captaincy of Kevin Heffernan, the 1958 All-Ireland was won.
The age of revolution
Heffernan's arrival as manager in the 1970s came at a time of hardship for Dublin. In the words of Paddy Cullen:
"We were going around getting beaten by Westmeath in the championship in the late 1960s. Anyone and everyone was having a go at us at that time. Kildare actually had a very good team around that time even if they didn't win anything big."
As has been exhaustively chronicled, the new Dublin manager began by insisting on unheard-of levels of fitness, believing that an ability to outlast opponents would in itself be enough to win some matches.
"All of a sudden we were getting bigger and better," says Cullen. "He wanted us to be able to go for 90 minutes [in those years, championship matches lasted 80 minutes]. We all believed it and it worked."
This combined with a sharp tactical appreciation of how to exploit the upgraded capacity sent Dublin and Kerry, as Mick O'Dwyer cottoned on to the new approach, into a different orbit, which left Kildare resolutely earth-bound, according to Eoghan Corry.
"In 1974, Kildare were completely oblivious to the fitness revolution that Kevin Heffernan was about to launch. Things would end up passing them by. Two of the most one-sided Leinster finals of all time were in 1975 and '78. There was a great degree of talent in the Kildare team but the evolution of the game was leaving them behind.
"Kildare weren't part of the coaching and fitness revolution despite having been to the forefront of virtually every previous one.
"They spearheaded the first fitness revolution in the 1900s when collective training was introduced. They pioneered the hand-pass – there's arguments over who invented it but Kildare were the most successful exponents – and the hand-to-toe solo was also a big tactic in the county."
Now, all they could do was watch
Return of the Mick
Kildare's eventual reawakening had echoes of the 1970s when Mick O'Dwyer, having broken records with Kerry, took over the county in 1990. Within months, he had secured promotion to Division One and a place in the league final against Dublin, managed by Paddy Cullen.
"We were fairly lucky," he recalls, "that a Vinnie Murphy shot from about 40 metres dropped into the net over the 'keeper's head. We won and I said to Mick afterwards on the pitch that we had got away with it and that we had been lucky with that goal at the end.
"I also said, 'come championship, we'll do a good job on you'. We both laughed and shook hands and walked away but we did actually do a good job on them when we met in the championship."
It took two tours of duty but seven years later, and after five championship failures to beat Dublin in the 1990s, O'Dwyer delivered Kildare's first win in the fixture for 26 years to set up the county's only All-Ireland appearance since 1935. However frustratingly, Galway were too good.
Brian Fenton: Dublin's midfielder and four-time All-Ireland medal winner has yet to lose a senior championship game with the county. Photograph: Oisín Keniry/Inpho
Brian Fenton: Dublin's midfielder and four-time All-Ireland medal winner has yet to lose a senior championship game with the county. Photograph: Oisín Keniry/Inpho
"The weight of expectation on the players was intense," according to Corry. "It's a GAA-mad county, especially for somewhere that hasn't won anything in so long. If they had won they would have got rid of all those inhibitions. I'm not saying they would have dominated because there were good teams around at the time but the psychological blow of losing was significant."
Epilogue: failing the Tebbit test
The irony of Kildare's burgeoning population, says Corry, from a GAA perspective is that much of it comes from the surge in the capital's population.
"The support base has been seriously affected by the spillover from Dublin into Kildare. From 1971, the population has gone from just over 70,000 to 220,000 so it has effectively trebled in a 45-year period. When Dublin are playing the huge estates of the big towns in North Kildare – Leixlip, 22,000; Celbridge 24,000; Naas, 23,000 – are spilling out cars onto the road that are waving more blue flags than white.
"This means that of the thriving, under-age culture in Kildare an awful lot are actually Dublin supporters. There is a sovereignty issue!"
A thought provoking article Dinny.
Yea I thought so too. With all the teeth gnashing going on, the history of the sport and the game gets by-passed. I think it's fair comment that one of the previous beauties of the GAA, it's amateur ethos has been eroded. I don't mean on the pitch, I mean off it. I often wonder is their a co-relation between the development of Croke Park, the appointment of Peter McKEnna in 2001 and the current mess we find ourselves in. The GAA hierarchy became obsessed with maximizing Croke Park revenues, always looking at ways to fill it, has this obsession come at the expense of football, the true national sport. It would be an interesting debate for sure, obviously not the thread for it but when you get reminded of the history, you do worry about the present and the future.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-football-stars-commanding-hefty-fees-for-promotional-appearances-38193584.html
Quote from: Rossfan on June 08, 2019, 11:28:23 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-football-stars-commanding-hefty-fees-for-promotional-appearances-38193584.html
You a great lad for bumping up the Dublin threads. Saves me having to do. Thanks Sfyin ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2019, 09:01:14 AM
Yea I thought so too. With all the teeth gnashing going on, the history of the sport and the game gets by-passed. I think it's fair comment that one of the previous beauties of the GAA, it's amateur ethos has been eroded. I don't mean on the pitch, I mean off it. I often wonder is their a co-relation between the development of Croke Park, the appointment of Peter McKEnna in 2001 and the current mess we find ourselves in. The GAA hierarchy became obsessed with maximizing Croke Park revenues, always looking at ways to fill it, has this obsession come at the expense of football, the true national sport. It would be an interesting debate for sure, obviously not the thread for it but when you get reminded of the history, you do worry about the present and the future.
Of course I want Dublin to win tomorrow but if it were any other team Kildare were playing I would always go for Kildare. That's always been the case but unfortunately in the past they have very often let me down. I often wonder what they lack compared to the likes of Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry etc. which prevents them from going for the jugular when it really matters. (Am I tempting fate here?) ;)
I could not care less about the Leinster football championship and I'm sure I am not the only one
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on June 08, 2019, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 08, 2019, 09:01:14 AM
Yea I thought so too. With all the teeth gnashing going on, the history of the sport and the game gets by-passed. I think it's fair comment that one of the previous beauties of the GAA, it's amateur ethos has been eroded. I don't mean on the pitch, I mean off it. I often wonder is their a co-relation between the development of Croke Park, the appointment of Peter McKEnna in 2001 and the current mess we find ourselves in. The GAA hierarchy became obsessed with maximizing Croke Park revenues, always looking at ways to fill it, has this obsession come at the expense of football, the true national sport. It would be an interesting debate for sure, obviously not the thread for it but when you get reminded of the history, you do worry about the present and the future.
Of course I want Dublin to win tomorrow but if it were any other team Kildare were playing I would always go for Kildare. That's always been the case but unfortunately in the past they have very often let me down. I often wonder what they lack compared to the likes of Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry etc. which prevents them from going for the jugular when it really matters. (Am I tempting fate here?) ;)
Er... no!
I think you're safe enough. :)
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 07, 2019, 02:16:25 PM
I see Mannion got his red card overturned
QuoteThat appeal has been successful, the CHC ruling that the alleged infraction of "behaving in a way which is dangerous to an opponent" could not be proven
What does "could not be proven" mean? Surely there's footage and it's either dangerous or not (I didn't see the incident myself)? The whole suspension / appeals process could do with an overhaul
It was clearly an incorrect decision to give the red, so there was really never any doubt that it was going to be overturned.
Quote from: Hound on June 09, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 07, 2019, 02:16:25 PM
I see Mannion got his red card overturned
QuoteThat appeal has been successful, the CHC ruling that the alleged infraction of "behaving in a way which is dangerous to an opponent" could not be proven
What does "could not be proven" mean? Surely there's footage and it's either dangerous or not (I didn't see the incident myself)? The whole suspension / appeals process could do with an overhaul
It was clearly an incorrect decision to give the red, so there was really never any doubt that it was going to be overturned.
It was at most a yellow card, mistimed rather than reckless.
Bernard Brogan played for Plunketts last night, so he's not in the 26 today, despite his best efforts to be involved.
Rock, Cooper and Murchin all missed the Louth game through injury. I know Murchin played for Na Fianna since then so he's likely back involved, dunno about the other two.
A bit worrying from a Kildare perspective that it seems all it not what it could be in the camp. But maybe that's bull. With all due respect to Longford, it's a bit disappointing that they made such hard work of beating them. When i saw 'no score' after 17mins of the replay, it was a ::) moment, but scoring 1-18 in the remainder must have meant there was a massive improvement and maybe something to build on.
Feely to full forward being suggested by the Wooly podcast. But would that be too big a loss from midfield?
Looks like the 1/80 shots are home and hosed. Probably beat the -14 handicap. Probably the end of O'Neill?
Dublin v probably the 2nd best team in Leinster. 2 and a bit pages on GAA board, but don't tier the championship.
Imagine Dublin being tested by Kerry, Donegal, Galway, Mayo, Tyrone etc, in the white heat of championship. Proper tests. Not this turkey shoot which Leinster has become. Most teams aren't even trying against them.
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2019, 06:59:31 PM
Dublin v probably the 2nd best team in Leinster. 2 and a bit pages on GAA board, but don't tier the championship.
Imagine Dublin being tested by Kerry, Donegal, Galway, Mayo, Tyrone etc, in the white heat of championship. Proper tests. Not this turkey shoot which Leinster has become. Most teams aren't even trying against them.
Mayo or Tyrone wouldn't be much of a test for them.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 09, 2019, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2019, 06:59:31 PM
Dublin v probably the 2nd best team in Leinster. 2 and a bit pages on GAA board, but don't tier the championship.
Imagine Dublin being tested by Kerry, Donegal, Galway, Mayo, Tyrone etc, in the white heat of championship. Proper tests. Not this turkey shoot which Leinster has become. Most teams aren't even trying against them.
Mayo or Tyrone wouldn't be much of a test for them.
Mayo have gone so far back it's frightening but even more scary is people haven't coped it yet .
Saying that I don't believe any team will even come close to beating Dublin this year or for the foreseeable . Perhaps they will lose their hunger after six or seven but will they ?
Quote from: larryin89 on June 09, 2019, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 09, 2019, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2019, 06:59:31 PM
Dublin v probably the 2nd best team in Leinster. 2 and a bit pages on GAA board, but don't tier the championship.
Imagine Dublin being tested by Kerry, Donegal, Galway, Mayo, Tyrone etc, in the white heat of championship. Proper tests. Not this turkey shoot which Leinster has become. Most teams aren't even trying against them.
Mayo or Tyrone wouldn't be much of a test for them.
Mayo have gone so far back it's frightening but even more scary is people haven't coped it yet .
Saying that I don't believe any team will even come close to beating Dublin this year or for the foreseeable . Perhaps they will lose their hunger after six or seven but will they ?
Can't see this happening larry- not any time soon- as in the next 20 years r thereabouts! Dublin has the most complete set of footballers you'll find anywhere or at any time. You have to give them full credit for that. I mean we can gripe with reason about the massive imbalance in central funding and lots of other issues as well but for any other side to better them in the foreseeable future is a non-runner. There's one or two other counties, Kerry for one, who might edge them in a one-off final or semi once in a while but I can't see any other county ever having the logistics, players, facilities and back up etc. to keep the Dubs off the Hogan Stand on the third Sunday of September for more than an odd year in maybe five. When the famous Blue Wave initiative was published (in 2011?), Dublin (some CB members anyway) were predicting 3 out of 5 AIs as a possibility but it looks as that was totally underestimating the realities.
Dublin will always always have a stream of talented younger players attempting to force their way to the top and,equally, a number of established players trying hard to hold onto their starting places at all costs. Whatever problems Jim Gavin may have in time to come with his team, lack of motivation won't be one of them.
Quote from: seafoid on June 08, 2019, 05:56:59 PM
I could not care less about the Leinster football championship and I'm sure I am not the only one
You care enough to post in a thread about it. And to read said thread.
Tweets from Ewan
''Dublin 0-26 Kildare 0-11. Majority of the gate receipts from this will go to victors too so they can win by more next year. Game thriving. Funny part is grew up regularly losing to Dublin and, man, it grated. Now honestly don't feel any emotion. Most are the same.''
''Still time left and it's Dublin 0-21 Kildare 0-10. Cue being told it was a good game and there's plenty to work with and it could have been closer and with a little bit of time that gap will close further and the championship isn't dead yet. That's the level we've reached.''
''Neutral Leinster semi-final in Dublin's ground begins with a lengthy video tribute to Stephen Cluxton (who has been and still is remarkable, before people go after that). The knees must be nearly worn from the GAA's trousers at this stage.''
''10 years ago, Dublin and Kildare met in the Leinster final. 74,572 were there. In the Irish Times, the attendance was described as 'slightly disappointing'. Dublin and Kildare meet today, and as part of a double bill, but less than half of that expected. And not being shown on TV''
Yet another Leinster yawnfest, let's be at least honest about it. :-\
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o6Ztrk67E3iKaZyiA/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115cfd7a1d46746f3549966e9b&rid=giphy.gif)
there will be no massive celebrations when dublin win leinster
Quote from: irish345 on June 09, 2019, 11:00:08 PM
there will be no massive celebrations when dublin win leinster
Not much celebrating in Tyrone this week .....
Dublin had too many good players for Kildare. Mannion and Costello were just superb on the day.
As always, Dublin will give you a chance, if you've the forwards to take them. Kildare had a very good second quarter to claw themselves back into the game after going 7-1 down early. But they'd 3 clearcut goal chances between the end of the first half and beginning of the second, and took none. At least 2 of them should have been scored and that would have put some pressure on, but the Dubs made them pay for the misses.
I presume Spewan was the only Kildare man who was upset at Cluxton being honoured prior to his 100th appearance.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 08:13:08 AM
Dublin had too many good players for Kildare. Mannion and Costello were just superb on the day.
As always, Dublin will give you a chance, if you've the forwards to take them. Kildare had a very good second quarter to claw themselves back into the game after going 7-1 down early. But they'd 3 clearcut goal chances between the end of the first half and beginning of the second, and took none. At least 2 of them should have been scored and that would have put some pressure on, but the Dubs made them pay for the misses.
I presume Spewan was the only Kildare man who was upset at Cluxton being honoured prior to his 100th appearance.
The name calling is very mature. For the record he wasn't the only one upset. However nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the lovefest between the Gaa and Dublin.
Enjoy another Leinster win. Its hard earned. ::)
Quote from: mup on June 10, 2019, 08:45:03 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 08:13:08 AM
Dublin had too many good players for Kildare. Mannion and Costello were just superb on the day.
As always, Dublin will give you a chance, if you've the forwards to take them. Kildare had a very good second quarter to claw themselves back into the game after going 7-1 down early. But they'd 3 clearcut goal chances between the end of the first half and beginning of the second, and took none. At least 2 of them should have been scored and that would have put some pressure on, but the Dubs made them pay for the misses.
I presume Spewan was the only Kildare man who was upset at Cluxton being honoured prior to his 100th appearance.
The name calling is very mature. For the record he wasn't the only one upset. However nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the lovefest between the Gaa and Dublin.
Enjoy another Leinster win. Its hard earned. ::)
Yeah, if you're looking for "mature", read Spewan's tweets and articles ::)
No surprise that you were another who was upset for the 90 second montage marking the remarkable achievement of Cluxton.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: mup on June 10, 2019, 08:45:03 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 08:13:08 AM
Dublin had too many good players for Kildare. Mannion and Costello were just superb on the day.
As always, Dublin will give you a chance, if you've the forwards to take them. Kildare had a very good second quarter to claw themselves back into the game after going 7-1 down early. But they'd 3 clearcut goal chances between the end of the first half and beginning of the second, and took none. At least 2 of them should have been scored and that would have put some pressure on, but the Dubs made them pay for the misses.
I presume Spewan was the only Kildare man who was upset at Cluxton being honoured prior to his 100th appearance.
The name calling is very mature. For the record he wasn't the only one upset. However nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the lovefest between the Gaa and Dublin.
Enjoy another Leinster win. Its hard earned. ::)
Yeah, if you're looking for "mature", read Spewan's tweets and articles ::)
No surprise that you were another who was upset for the 90 second montage marking the remarkable achievement of Cluxton.
I don't know how long it was as I wasn't in CP yesterday.
So you presumed Ewan was the only Kildare man that was upset and you are not surprised I was another one that was upset. Intelligent stuff out of you. ;D
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/dublin-are-so-far-ahead-that-leinster-is-beyond-repair-1.3920177
Dublin are so far ahead that Leinster is beyond repair
Tipping Point: Fans know how it will end – no wonder they don't bother their barney to go
On the walk into Croke Park on Sunday, just down at the corner where the Hogan Stand meets Hill 16, two metallers stood gawping at the edifice in front of them. That's right, metallers. One bald, one hirsute, both in cargo shorts, black T-shirts, Slayer, Megadeth, the whole bit. If you were to guess they had been to Slane on Saturday for Metallica, they could not have been offended by your presumption.
They were German, but one of them had been here before and he was explaining to his mate that this huge stadium was going to be filled today for the Dublin football team. Croke Park never looks bigger than it does at that corner, where you can peer in through the gate and see the seven floors of seats rise up around the bowl, with the sheer terrace of the Hill off to your left. In the imagination, before the stiles open on a matchday, it's a wondrous place.
Had they chanced it and looked about popping inside for the afternoon, we all know their wonder would have taken a fair battering. But they were only passing through and had no notion of going to the games, so it would have been pointless to interrupt them with the truth. What would you say, anyway?
"Well actually chaps, the place will only be about a third full. Time was, you'd get seventy-odd thousand in here for a Leinster semi-final double-header, but Dublin have only lost one game in the competition in 15 years so nobody bothers their barney anymore. Hope they rocked the gaff for ye down in Slane because this place will be like a Monday afternoon cinema visit."
Which it was. As the Meath and Laois teams warmed up on the pitch 15 minutes before the first game, the Cusack Stand had fewer than 1,000 people in it. That's no vague estimate – they were easily counted. Not alone could you hear the teams going through their warm-ups, you could all but hear the grass grow underneath them. You'd feel a greater sense of occasion paying your car tax.
Meath and Laois played out a perfectly harmless semi-final. At times, when Donal Keogan or Bryan Menton or Cillian O'Sullivan would plant a flag for Meath, you allowed your mind to go crazy and imagined the place rocking with hard-chaws from Navan and Skryne and Ashbourne a fortnight from now. But then you remembered that it was the Leinster Championship we're talking about here, and sure Ashbourne is full of Dubs now anyway.
And then Dublin came out and did what Dublin do to everyone in the province and have done for pretty much the whole decade. It was 15 points yesterday; it will be the same again or something like it in the final. The Leinster Championship is a non-competition.
Meath's Donal Keogan and Robert Pigott of Laois during their Leinster Championship semi-final match at Croke Park, Dublin, on Sunday. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho Meath's Donal Keogan and Robert Pigott of Laois during their Leinster Championship semi-final match at Croke Park, Dublin, on Sunday. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho
"As the Meath and Laois teams warmed up before the first game, the Cusack Stand had fewer than 1,000 people in it
This thing is broken. It really is. You can get smothered under the avalanche of numbers when it comes to how far Dublin are ahead of everyone, and yet the beauty of sport is that everything is measurable. These are hunches or swings in the dark. Sport tells you what the story is and it tells you right between the eyes.
Yesterday was Dublin's 20th Leinster Championship game since Jim Gavin took the reins at the start of 2013. They have, of course, won all 20. No great leap forward there – they won 22 of the 23 they played before he took over, going all the way back to the start of 2005.
But the margins have ballooned beyond all proportion to what went before. Of those 20 wins under Gavin, 18 have been by 10 points or more. The other two were by seven and nine: the Leinster finals of 2013 and 2017. For comparison, in those beano years between 2005 and 2012 when Dublin won seven titles out of eight in the province, they only put up five double-digit wins altogether. Essentially, they've gone from handing out double-digit beatings 22 per cent of the time to doing it 90 per cent of the time.
Regenerate
Thing is, nobody can see a way for it to be any different anytime soon. Dublin's ability to refresh and regenerate their playing squad is apparently set in train for generations at this stage. They took the field on Sunday with Dean Rock and Jonny Cooper not on the panel through injury, and with Eoin Murchan and Philly McMahon on the bench. Darren Gavin is this year's new addition; Paddy Small came on to snipe a point. Dublin will have footballers as long as there is football.
"The numbers for this semi-final double-header have been steadily dwindling across the decade
Will anyone in Leinster still care, though? When they announced the attendance at half-time in the second game here, the figure of 36,126 was met with a few nodding heads and raised eyebrows. Not because it was so low, more because it was generally expected to be lower still. There had been talk beforehand of them struggling to get 30,000 through the gates.
That will happen in time, surely. The numbers for this semi-final double-header have been steadily dwindling across the decade, from 58,000 in 2011 to 51,000 in 2015 to 36,000 this year. Where does this end? Where does it go?
With supremely odd timing, the GAA put out a press release at 4.50pm on Sunday afternoon, just as the second half was getting under way in the Dublin game. It was to announce the names and aims of the taskforce set up to take a wholesale look at fixtures in the GAA and try to find a workable calendar, with everything on the table and up for grabs. And you can only bid them godspeed, not an easy task ahead of them, etc, etc.
The Leinster Championship is a bolted horse, though. Whatever they come up with, there's no fixing what it has become.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: mup on June 10, 2019, 08:45:03 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 08:13:08 AM
Dublin had too many good players for Kildare. Mannion and Costello were just superb on the day.
As always, Dublin will give you a chance, if you've the forwards to take them. Kildare had a very good second quarter to claw themselves back into the game after going 7-1 down early. But they'd 3 clearcut goal chances between the end of the first half and beginning of the second, and took none. At least 2 of them should have been scored and that would have put some pressure on, but the Dubs made them pay for the misses.
I presume Spewan was the only Kildare man who was upset at Cluxton being honoured prior to his 100th appearance.
The name calling is very mature. For the record he wasn't the only one upset. However nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the lovefest between the Gaa and Dublin.
Enjoy another Leinster win. Its hard earned. ::)
Yeah, if you're looking for "mature", read Spewan's tweets and articles ::)
No surprise that you were another who was upset for the 90 second montage marking the remarkable achievement of Cluxton.
I thought it was highly inappropriate and disrespectful to play it so close to the start of the game. And I don't recall having seen it done for any player before and certainly not one that's still playing. Nothing the GAA does surprises me anymore when it comes to Dublin.
As for the game itself, Kildare's body language was a give away. Mentally they just wanted to get through it . Very impressed with Dublin's movement, they really play like a basketball team, loads of illegal blocking too but it's all so fast no referee would ever pick it up.
The feet on Costello, Mannion and O'Callaghan, brilliant at gaining half a yard in space. No county has three players like them, maybe Clifford, Geaney and an in-form O'Donoghue but still the 3 Dublin lads work harder.
Unless they have an off day in the semi-final or final no team will stop them this year.
I'd imagine be last time provincial semis played at Croker. One in Tullamore. Other in Portlaoise. Funny Dubs subs did a bit of a session on pitch after the game yesterday. Long term, not sure what will happen. Practically splitting Dublin won't be easy. And if it doesn't happen I think they should look at possibility of treating Dublin like a separate entity. Rotate which province they play in each year maybe.
Nobody has made their 100th appearance before.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
Nobody has made their 100th appearance before.
Yes Hound, their comments are "divisive and mean spirited"!
Don't they know that Croke Park is Dublin's home ground and they can pay any tributes they like to their own.
Kildare should be thankful they were allowed in at all.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2019, 11:38:22 AM
Don't they know that Croke Park is Dublin's home ground and they can pay any tributes they like to their own.
Kildare should be thankful they were allowed in at all.
Another "divisive and mean spirited" comment!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 10, 2019, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2019, 11:38:22 AM
Don't they know that Croke Park is Dublin's home ground and they can pay any tributes they like to their own.
Kildare should be thankful they were allowed in at all.
Another "divisive and mean spirited" comment!
There's a bit of the stopped clock analogy going on here, but you're absolutely right FTB!
The Dubs had nothing to do with the tribute, because if Cluxton had been asked about it, he would have told Croke Park not to do it!
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2019, 11:49:38 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 10, 2019, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2019, 11:38:22 AM
Don't they know that Croke Park is Dublin's home ground and they can pay any tributes they like to their own.
Kildare should be thankful they were allowed in at all.
Another "divisive and mean spirited" comment!
There's a bit of the stopped clock analogy going on here, but you're absolutely right FTB!
The Dubs had nothing to do with the tribute, because if Cluxton had been asked about it, he would have told Croke Park not to do it!
Well said Hound! I'd say you almost believe that yourself at this stage.