Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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Ball Hopper

Anyone think the EU exit rules fell very short?  The rules should have made it very difficult to leave.

Maybe the EU will amend the "Rules to Leave" to state that any member wishing to Leave must be agreed firstly by all other EU members (parliamentary majority sufficient unless less than 60% margin in either direction will cause a referendum in that country).  Any single nation can thereby veto an exit request.

Then proceed to an Exit agreement between the member and the EU if all nations agree to allow the request to proceed. 

Finally, place the final, no further negotiations allowed, agreement on the referendum ballot in the nation wishing to leave...voters choice is to accept the agreement means Leave, reject the agreement means Remain.

No nation can request to Leave again until 10 years after such a referendum.

Just my 2 cents from afar...you boys are much closer to the action/inaction.

The solution to the current dilemma is to request UK to postpone any exit plans until such amendments are made to EU rules and then proceed as they wish. 

LCohen

Quote from: yellowcard on February 07, 2019, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 07, 2019, 07:57:58 PM
That's kind of what I was getting at YC. The appeared lack of alternative options by Labour.

Is this article not a bit of a turn up? Spectator very tight wing. Maybe they actually see the DUP for the cretins they are.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/a-referendum-on-irish-unity-might-be-the-best-way-to-solve-the-brexit-border-issue/amp/

I think it's a simple case of English nationalism trumping any pretence that the union is precious. For many Brexiteers the preservation of the UK is important but just not as important as releasing themselves from the shackles of the EU and their delusions that some form of utopia will automatically follow. 

Previous polls carried out last year suggested that many within England would ditch the 6 counties if it became an obstruction to them getting the Brexit that they wanted. I think that article is probably just a manifestation of that. If the DUP did not hold the balance of power im Westminster my guess is that the border would already have been established in the Irish sea.   

If Labour 's current proposal is rejected and you would have to expect that politically May is compelled to reject it the an Irish Sea customs border could get cross party support.


DUP could have their Ulster Says No moment but the sane world would move on . May's government would collapse and there would have to be a general election

LCohen

Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 07, 2019, 08:57:59 PM
There won't be border checks on day 1 (Leinster v Ulster match). Give it 6 months until Ireland is advised by EU to have the frontier with NI

I genuinely don't think Dublin or London want a border but either would do it if needs be

LCohen

Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 07, 2019, 09:05:10 PM
Anyone think the EU exit rules fell very short?  The rules should have made it very difficult to leave.

Maybe the EU will amend the "Rules to Leave" to state that any member wishing to Leave must be agreed firstly by all other EU members (parliamentary majority sufficient unless less than 60% margin in either direction will cause a referendum in that country).  Any single nation can thereby veto an exit request.

Then proceed to an Exit agreement between the member and the EU if all nations agree to allow the request to proceed. 

Finally, place the final, no further negotiations allowed, agreement on the referendum ballot in the nation wishing to leave...voters choice is to accept the agreement means Leave, reject the agreement means Remain.

No nation can request to Leave again until 10 years after such a referendum.

Just my 2 cents from afar...you boys are much closer to the action/inaction.

The solution to the current dilemma is to request UK to postpone any exit plans until such amendments are made to EU rules and then proceed as they wish.

If you tried to introduce those rules today several member states would veto them

Ball Hopper

Quote from: LCohen on February 07, 2019, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 07, 2019, 09:05:10 PM
Anyone think the EU exit rules fell very short?  The rules should have made it very difficult to leave.

Maybe the EU will amend the "Rules to Leave" to state that any member wishing to Leave must be agreed firstly by all other EU members (parliamentary majority sufficient unless less than 60% margin in either direction will cause a referendum in that country).  Any single nation can thereby veto an exit request.

Then proceed to an Exit agreement between the member and the EU if all nations agree to allow the request to proceed. 

Finally, place the final, no further negotiations allowed, agreement on the referendum ballot in the nation wishing to leave...voters choice is to accept the agreement means Leave, reject the agreement means Remain.

No nation can request to Leave again until 10 years after such a referendum.

Just my 2 cents from afar...you boys are much closer to the action/inaction.

The solution to the current dilemma is to request UK to postpone any exit plans until such amendments are made to EU rules and then proceed as they wish.

If you tried to introduce those rules today several member states would veto them

True, but do all nations vote to accept new members as well?  Can one nation veto a new member? 

I don't know the answer, by the way.

yellowcard

Quote from: LCohen on February 07, 2019, 09:02:30 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 07, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 07, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
Is the real failure in this sorry state of affairs not the Labour party??

The ERG and their apologists within the media would love you to believe that. Those charlatans should be the people held to account for this sorry mess.

Corbyn may have his faults but he is not the architect of this whole Brexit charade. That said I do believe a more centrist labour leader would have helped deliver some form of Brexit deal with cross party support.
.

Is that not what he is doing?

Belatedly, probably after he seen the latest poll result.

trailer

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 07, 2019, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 07, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 07, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
Is the real failure in this sorry state of affairs not the Labour party??

The ERG and their apologists within the media would love you to believe that. Those charlatans should be the people held to account for this sorry mess.

Corbyn may have his faults but he is not the architect of this whole Brexit charade. That said I do believe a more centrist labour leader would have helped deliver some form of Brexit deal with cross party support.

A proper Labour leader would have gotten off his backside and campaigned properly for Remain, maybe enough to swing the vote and avoid this whole sorry mess.

He's the elected leader of the Labour party who has consistently been anti EU. The wankers in the labour party who elected him are at fault. They voted for a socialist revolution, what they now have is a Geography teacher in a stupid communist cap who hasn't got a f**king clue.
Brexit could be an economic disaster. I hope for my family it isn't. The Tory and Labour parties have a lot to answer for.

johnnycool



Any similarities between beelzebub and our Sammy are purely coincidental.


RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: LCohen on February 07, 2019, 09:00:26 PM
Anything more specific?

I assume your question is related to trade?

It is widely accepted that there is a correlation between core infrastructure (transport/utilities) and productivity. Taken that given, then...


If there were a UI, we would likely see vast improvements in infrastructure in the border areas leading to improved growth in these areas. The improvement of the roads already within the ROI due to EU led investment should be consider as examples. For instance, we would most likely definitely see:
- New main road linking Monaghan to Maguiresbridge.
- Improved main road linking Enniskillen to Donegal town (via Ballyshannon).
- The A5 gets done rather than dithered over.

Then, dealing with the east coast:
- The York road junction gets done rather than dithered over.
- The Dublin-Belfast enterprise service gets new rolling stock that pulls the journey time down to around an hour (its only 100 miles). Even use of the older intercity 125s on a track fit for purpose would see a big drop in journey time - current top speed is limited to 90 mph. The enterprise service as it stands at the moment is an embarrassment. Benign topology and yet the best we can do is an average speed of ~55 mph between the 2 largest cities just 100 miles apart?

We would possibly see:
- extension of the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Enniskillen. I wouldn't imagine this would dual carriageway over to Ballyshannon.
- improvements of the links to Warrenpoint dock so freight can be moved more quickly onto the motorway/rail network.

I'd also like to think there would be EU monies put toward improving broadband infrastructure in rural areas, which would also lead to improved economic output from our smaller businesses.
i usse an speelchekor

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: LCohen on February 07, 2019, 09:01:18 PM
What exactly are you asking here?

1. Economic prospects in event of Brexit and Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK

2. Economic prospects in event of Brexit and a United Ireland.
i usse an speelchekor

armaghniac

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Dubh driocht

I am now strongly of the view that we're on the one road here, and while it may be the long road we're together now - so who cares. There have been regular and informed comments from many posters, particularly Seafoid, which have helped me understand what's going on. Now I think it has boiled down to this: if the worst happens and the UK crash out with no deal it's now inevitable there will be a united Ireland within 10 years so happy days. If the best happens and the UK gets a deal which we are all happy with then life goes on as is and we still progress towards a united Ireland at a slower pace so happy days.

RedHand88


seafoid


No deal would be suicidal for the U.K.

If No deal went ahead the economic justification for the existence
of Northern Ireland would disappear

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/07/no-deal-brexit-medieval-siege-eu-britain-industries

Plus the south is more socially progressive regarding reproductive rights !! After decades being behind .# Jaysus

If a time traveler from Crossmaglen in the 50's rolled up they would not believe the changes that have happened. It all started when Down won the All Ireland in 1960. ;)

The Irish govt was dealt a bad hand with the Brexit referendum but they played as a team
and they got a result. It is fantastic to see all the Irish parties both north and south united in support of everyone in the north.

https://youtu.be/O3G1bwD0ao0
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 08, 2019, 11:28:24 PM
I am now strongly of the view that we're on the one road here, and while it may be the long road we're together now - so who cares. There have been regular and informed comments from many posters, particularly Seafoid, which have helped me understand what's going on. Now I think it has boiled down to this: if the worst happens and the UK crash out with no deal it's now inevitable there will be a united Ireland within 10 years so happy days. If the best happens and the UK gets a deal which we are all happy with then life goes on as is and we still progress towards a united Ireland at a slower pace so happy days.

Yep, no deal and a rather bumpy landing, or we can glide in towards the runway without wakening the passengers.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B