The IRISH RUGBY thread

[BarryBreensBandage]

In agreeing with a lot of posts here, I think that the defeat arose from the fact that Ireland were trying to play a brand of Rugby that they have tried maybe once or twice over the past 18 months, where they have consistently reverted to the Munster/O'Gara kick and ruck style of game to steam roller opponents.

If that is the way they are going to play at the WC they might as well play the whole Munster team, at least there would be some cohesion.
My question is, why do Ireland choose to play the kicking game when it is so obvious that they are more than capable of playing an open game like Saturday on every occasion? They would become used to playing this style of Rugby, and, and hopefully we reach a point were we can beat the All Blacks, because if we keep reverting to kick and hope, we never will.

The last time I seen Ireland playing Rugby as open as Saturday was on the tour of the US last year. It was also the style of Rugby that won the Grand Slam.

think a fair whack of the Munster team would have Irish eligibility issues. Regarding numbers playing the game in New Zealand, anybody know how the Islanders that the Kiwis seem to be able to draw on at will figure in those stats?

I realise that anglocelt, just trying to make the point.

I thought Philip Matthews spelt it out during BBC's excellent coverage of the match when he said that it was as if Ireland had woken up and realised that this is the way Rugby is played now, where possession is key.

Scotland beat South Africa by retaining the ball instead of kicking it back to the opposition.

And I agree with you, Indiana, it may be too late to revert to for the WC, but at least we could give it a shot in the 6 Nations - better to burn out than to fade away.

[Joxer]

Ireland team to play Argentina, Guinness Series 2010, Aviva Stadium, Sunday 28 November, 2.30pm:

15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)

[tyroneboi]

I would like to have seen Tom Court keep his place, Sean O'Brien given a go and possibly Earls but apart from that there wasnt many more you could make a case for. Hopefully Geordan Murphy has a good game. 

[Hoof Hearted]

I love watching G Murphy play. He has been one of the most consistent players in the English Premiership as last 10 years.

[Dinny Breen]

POC makes his return for Young Munster, a bit to go on the conditioning side as he looks bolloxed but great news for him and Ireland..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_l60L7rd6c&feature=player_embedded

Hoof Hearted, I always felt that only Brian O'Driscoll was more talented than Murphy, I think if he played for Leinster or Munster he'd have more caps and his defensive flaws wouldn't have been used as a stick to beat him with...delighted to see him there and hopefully he can make the jersey his own, if even he is a Naas bollox   

[tyroneboi]

What did you guys make of all the rugby this weekend? Very impressed by Australia and South Africa while New Zealand were never in trouble against Wales. I only seen the 1st half of the Ireland game but seemed to play well in patches. Sexton seems to have gained a lot of confidence from starting in 3 of the 4 games. Stringer played well which is good but at the same time worrying that we are still reliant on a 9 who made his debut 10 years ago. 6 nations will be interesting with Frances horror show against the Aussies and the English were disappointing as well. I still think we will beat England at the Aviva and you really don't know what the French will be at come February.

[INDIANA]

What did you guys make of all the rugby this weekend? Very impressed by Australia and South Africa while New Zealand were never in trouble against Wales. I only seen the 1st half of the Ireland game but seemed to play well in patches. Sexton seems to have gained a lot of confidence from starting in 3 of the 4 games. Stringer played well which is good but at the same time worrying that we are still reliant on a 9 who made his debut 10 years ago. 6 nations will be interesting with Frances horror show against the Aussies and the English were disappointing as well. I still think we will beat England at the Aviva and you really don't know what the French will be at come February.

2nd half was dire mate. Probably the worst 40 of the Autumn Series. Just too many knock ons, poor lineouts, poor restarts and aimless kicking to call today a good performance. Poor argentinian team. Top 4 would put 50 on them.
Team prefers playing without the ball which goes against the law changes. 6 Nations will be tight. We'll beat Italy and we could technically beat everyone else by a few points or lose them all by the same. It really is that tight.
NH rugby is mired in medicority. You could win the 6nations and still get hosed by australia in the World Cup.
The problem with the French result is that either Liveroment will get the sack or be forced to pick his best team. Last night team has about 5 of the best players in France playing. I think England will beat us. They are closer to the SH teams then we are.

Australia were majestic. Yes French were poor but it was the ruthless efficiency that impressed me. And the way that 30 points wasnt enough. They kept going -wanting to bury them. We never do that.

[Declan]

Australia second half performance was the best rugby I've ever seen.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Australia second half performance was the best rugby I've ever seen.

France raised the white flag long before the end though. As they sometimes do when things don't go their way. Australia then put on a load of garbage time points. In fairness France aren't as bad as they looked that night and Australia aren't as good.

6 Nations looks very open. England looked like they were getting somewhere after the Australia game but were well beaten over the weekend by South Africa. France have had a very poor series but you'd imagine they will be better. Ireland, Wales and Scotland have all been up and down.

[Celt_Man]

Would think that Alan Quinlan broke his arm/elbow in Munster's win over Connacht today.  Looked nasty, hopefully he isn't too badly injured and out for too long

By the way, two entertaining games today...

[DuffleKing]

Haven't had time to see any rugby this season lads - where are we in finding a front row for the world cup?

[Dinny Breen]

Would think that Alan Quinlan broke his arm/elbow in Munster's win over Connacht today.  Looked nasty, hopefully he isn't too badly injured and out for too long

By the way, two entertaining games today...

dislocated the elbow

The Connacht game was awful, absolute terrible ref Munster somewhat fortunate to win - they have serious scrum issues.

Haven't had time to see any rugby this season lads - where are we in finding a front row for the world cup?

Healy, Court and Ross should be the props with Varley, Cronin and maybe Best as the hooker.

[Capt Pat]

Time to have a look ahead to the 6 nations and world cup and give a few opinions about how it might work out quite well for Ireland, the pros and cons etc.

Remember the big hoopla leading up to the last world cup for a couple of years before it and how Ireland had a great chance of winning it before performing terribly, well its time to wind up that band wagon again about Ireland having a potentially great team with the ability to beat anyone on their day. Here is why I beleive we might do well, it is of course all about playing resources.

LEts start with the starting 15 from the last world cup v a possible starting 15 for this world cup

15 Dempsey                15 Rob Kearney
14 Trimble                  14 Bowe
13 O'Driscoll                13 O'Driscoll 
12 Darcy                     12 Darcy
11 Hickey                    11 Fitzgerald/Earls
10 O'Gara                    10 Sexton   
9 Stringer                     9 O'Leary
8 Leamy                       8 Heaslip   
7 Wallace                     7 O'Brien/Wallace
6 Easterby                    6 Ferris
5 O'Connell                   5 O'Connell
4 O'Callaghan                4 O'Callaghan
3 Hayes                        3 Buckley/Ross /Hayes
2 Best                          2 Best/Varley/Flannery 
1 Horan                        1 Healy/Court/ Horan

15 - Starting at the top Lions full back Robe Kearney against the legend that never was Girv the swerve. Assuming Kearney gets his form back and he will this is a big upgrade at a position that can be very important depending on the way a game goes

14 - Tommy Bowe, one of the best wingers in the world against Trimble or Horgan, no contest here another big improvement.

13 - Old O'Driscoll v Young O'Driscoll. Ok this is where we missed the boat at the last world cup. We had the best centre in the world in his prime and he didn't get a chance because the whole team was so poor. Now a more experienced player, he has lost a step or 2 of pace. NOt as good any more.

12 - Darcy if he makes it to the tournament will start at inside centre, a very strong player for Ireland over the years is losing pace as well, we  really have to hope that the experience of thes centres is what makes them a strong partnership in New Zealand.  Has taken a step back.

11 - Hickey was a good international winger and a hard act to follow, but with the talents of Fitzgerald or Earls in this position Ireland might even have a better player playing in this position at the next world cup

10 - Sexton can do things that O'Gara never could like move a back line and run with the ball in hand and not get blown away in the tackle. His kicking game is of a similar level and this position looks to be an upgrade at the next tournament.

9 - Tomas O'Leary at his best is a huge improvement over the quick passing but limited Stringer. O'Learys stronger physique and ability to break, kick, score and create tries and tackle are a big improvement over what Stringer brought to the team. Overall The half back pairing of O'Leary and Sexton could be a massive upgrade over O'Gara and Stringer and a big tournament for the half backs is one of the main reasons for optimism for this team

8 - Heaslip is one of the best 8s in the world, maybe only Parisse and Read are better, I would rather have Heaslip ahead of those 2.  Leamy is/was a good player and we still have him so this position will be much stronger.

7 - Sean O'Brien/ Wallace hasn't been capped for Ireland yes because Dave Wallace is so good and so now is O'Brien. This position is better as we have both Wallace and O'Brien.

6 - Ferris is a powerful 6, Easterby was a good and consistent player for us, but Ferris is a step up in power and ability especially in ball carrying and tackling. Overall the backrow is a lot better and we didn't think we would be saying that after the last world cup.

5 & 4 O'Callaghan and O'Connell. Getting older but still a great pair for Ireland, won't suffer as much as the centre pairing will from getting older, no change between world cups in this position.

3 Buckley against Hayes. Both poor in the scrum, Buckley is better rumbling around the park, Hayes a better line out jumper. No change in talent levels between 07 and 11 teams

2 - Best, Vlarley, Flannery. We have to hope that Flannery and or Best can stay fit for this tournament so we have an experienced player at this key position. No real change in talent levels.

1 Healy against Horan. Healy is even better around the park than Hoan was which is a help to the team. They will both be around so this position will be stronger.

I think it jumps off the page that the 2011 team everything going well will be a stronger team than the 07 team especially from numbers 6-15.There is a lot of attacking backline talent and a lot of good ball carriers in the back row. THe second row shuld remanin solid.

This brings us to the front row of the scrum and scrummaging . The way the game is reffed now we ahve to be able to scrummage solidly or we are going nowhere. We ill be blown out of the game by the refs and powerful French, Argentinian. English, SOuth African scrums if we get to play them and we should at some point in the tournament. We have to hope that buckley and Mike Ross can improve their games and hold down that tightend side of the scrum or that the refs go easy on us. The other thing is the hooker position and line out throwing we need Flannery fit to throw the ball in as he is the only consistent thrower.

So looking forward, we play the English and French at home in the 6 Nations so the tournament is winnable and I will predict that we will win it. Not saying we will get a grand slam but there is reason for optimism. I would like to see how the 6 nations and tri nations goes  and see who turns up fit and in for,before making my final world cup predictions. So for now I will predict a New Zealand win with Ireland not having too many problems in the group this time  with only Italy  to overcome to get a quarterfinal and Australia to win the group. Someohw and with the decision makers at 8,9 and 10 having big tournaments we will make the semi finals.

[Hoof Hearted]

good write-up. when you see it broken down like that, maybe it's not as doom and gloom as i thought. I would take a grand slam and a semi spot at the WC for 2011.

More than likely 3 or 4 wins in the 6N and a beaten 1/4 finalist, although i hope im wrong

[Capt Pat]

THis is how I think the squad of 30 players will shape up. I am trying to work out if that is the way the squad is done or will they take extra props, hookers, scrum halves, fly halves etc?

15 Kearney, Geordan Murphy
14 Bowe, Horgan
13 O'Driscoll, Earls
12 Darcy, Fitzgerald
11 Hickey, Trimble
10 Sexton, O'Gara
9 O'Leary, Reddan
8, Heaslip, Leamy
7 Wallace, O'Brien
6 Ferris, Jennings
5 O'Connell, Toner
4 O'Callaghan, Donacha Ryan
3 Buckley, Ross
2 Best, Flannery
1 Healy, Court