Test appetite for Irish Unity in Census 2021

[bennydorano]

Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

[RedHand88]

Problem with this it's usually one of the parents who fills out for the whole house, including adult children. Hard to say how accurate it would be. A straw man poll I say.

[haranguerer]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

[Syferus]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The British don't care enough to argue either way. The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades. Sinn Fein have no sense of timing.

[Rossfan]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

[Syferus]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

[RedHand88]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

[Syferus]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

When the side that is actually going to vote yes is in a majority. Duh.

[shark]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

We will never know what the right time is, until in hindsight. In that respect it is worth playing it conservatively. Demographics are only going one way, and there is a decent chance that sentiment will follow. Patience is key. Do it right and only do it once.

[haranguerer]

Rubbish. We need to have unionists on board, but unionist leadership is intent on burying its head in the sand - it will take a clearly impending referendum, if not a referendum itself, for there to be a full and open conversation about reunification. We need to be having these conversations openly and as soon as possible to avoid the likes of the brexit mess. We shouldn't also bury our heads in the sand, waiting for the 'right moment'. It doesn't make much difference if the first one is lost, and it will be very beneficial if it starts the debate in earnest and across all communities.

[Stan Laurel]

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

When the side that is actually going to vote yes is in a majority. Duh.

Cameron thought it was the right time, Hilary thought she was home and hosed with numpty running against her.  No one knows when the majority is going vote yes, but if we are dragged out of customs union and a 300 mile boarder comes up even the staunchest unionist will feel it in her / her pocket.

[Syferus]

Rubbish. We need to have unionists on board, but unionist leadership is intent on burying its head in the sand - it will take a clearly impending referendum, if not a referendum itself, for there to be a full and open conversation about reunification. We need to be having these conversations openly and as soon as possible to avoid the likes of the brexit mess. We shouldn't also bury our heads in the sand, waiting for the 'right moment'. It doesn't make much difference if the first one is lost, and it will be very beneficial if it starts the debate in earnest and across all communities.

Spending your political capital and getting soundly rejected (as a vote in 2018 or even 2021 would undoubtedly be) would be ruinous for the cause of Irish nationalism. The reaction in Scotland when Sturgeon tried to raise the spectre of another vote there in the wake of Brexit is something you would do well not to ignore. The public just were not interested and wanted to get on with their lives and for their politicians to concentrate on something that materially effected their lives and not an emotive cause. You get one shot at this sort of thing every couple generations, if you're lucky.

There are currently too many protestants and die-hard unionists to ever win a vote in the north. FFS, nationalists haven't even controlled the NI government for an hour of its history. You're trying to go to the Moon when you haven't even walked on dry land yet. Becoming the largest party in the north should be SF's medium term aim and not this juvenile nonsense.

[Owen Brannigan]

Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Probably is a good collection method.

However, it bring us back to the bad old days of the 1960's before one man one vote.  At that time the householder had a vote and no one else in the family.  So, he/she who fills in the census form has the vote on behalf of everyone else.

Not sure how you cannot ensure that each person in the household has had a say and whether each of them is eligible to vote.

[Solo_run]

Sinn Fein have shown themselves to be the progressive party out of the two for the last number of years. They no longer align themselves with any religion and that is evident in the same sex marriage and abortion referendums. However the DUP are lagging behind and showing little signs of being a progressive party. There is no way they will ever support same sex marriage or abortion. Instead they are trying to turn make themselves more appealing to staunchly religious Irish Catholics who have staunchly religious views - this is exactly why she is attending GAA games because the DUP have identified a market they can appeal to. Whether this works remains to be seen.

However, with that being said more and more people are breaking away from the stranglehold religion has on in the north and south. DUP are not being progressive enough and with them bringing a religious tone to politics the DUP will find themselves as an out of date party that will lose its appeal. It is easy to see that this has started already and it will not be long until a United Ireland will be on the agenda.

[weareros]

Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.