gaaboard.com

Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Problem with this it's usually one of the parents who fills out for the whole house, including adult children. Hard to say how accurate it would be. A straw man poll I say.

I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The British don't care enough to argue either way. The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades. Sinn Fein have no sense of timing.

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2018, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:48:07 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2018, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2018, 02:51:36 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:48:07 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2018, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

When the side that is actually going to vote yes is in a majority. Duh.

Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2018, 02:51:36 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:48:07 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2018, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

We will never know what the right time is, until in hindsight. In that respect it is worth playing it conservatively. Demographics are only going one way, and there is a decent chance that sentiment will follow. Patience is key. Do it right and only do it once.

Rubbish. We need to have unionists on board, but unionist leadership is intent on burying its head in the sand - it will take a clearly impending referendum, if not a referendum itself, for there to be a full and open conversation about reunification. We need to be having these conversations openly and as soon as possible to avoid the likes of the brexit mess. We shouldn't also bury our heads in the sand, waiting for the 'right moment'. It doesn't make much difference if the first one is lost, and it will be very beneficial if it starts the debate in earnest and across all communities.

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:53:03 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2018, 02:51:36 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:48:07 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2018, 02:46:21 PM

Quote from: Syferus on June 27, 2018, 02:29:38 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on June 27, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I don't see how else consensus can be gained that it is necessary to have one. Unionists and brits will always argue conditions not met, nationalists will argue otherwise. There does need to be some mechanism to provide strong evidence one way or the other. Allows the process to move on to the next, most important stage - what exactly would we be voting for?

The idea of doing it now is so monumentally stupid that it would set back the actual process of unification back a couple decades.

Could you explain why oh knowledgeable one?

Look at a fecking census and see for yourself, cherub.

When exactly is the "right time" if the biggest constitutional upheaval in a century against the wishes of the north isn't?!

When the side that is actually going to vote yes is in a majority. Duh.

Cameron thought it was the right time, Hilary thought she was home and hosed with numpty running against her.  No one knows when the majority is going vote yes, but if we are dragged out of customs union and a 300 mile boarder comes up even the staunchest unionist will feel it in her / her pocket.

Quote from: haranguerer on June 28, 2018, 08:36:40 AM
Rubbish. We need to have unionists on board, but unionist leadership is intent on burying its head in the sand - it will take a clearly impending referendum, if not a referendum itself, for there to be a full and open conversation about reunification. We need to be having these conversations openly and as soon as possible to avoid the likes of the brexit mess. We shouldn't also bury our heads in the sand, waiting for the 'right moment'. It doesn't make much difference if the first one is lost, and it will be very beneficial if it starts the debate in earnest and across all communities.

Spending your political capital and getting soundly rejected (as a vote in 2018 or even 2021 would undoubtedly be) would be ruinous for the cause of Irish nationalism. The reaction in Scotland when Sturgeon tried to raise the spectre of another vote there in the wake of Brexit is something you would do well not to ignore. The public just were not interested and wanted to get on with their lives and for their politicians to concentrate on something that materially effected their lives and not an emotive cause. You get one shot at this sort of thing every couple generations, if you're lucky.

There are currently too many protestants and die-hard unionists to ever win a vote in the north. FFS, nationalists haven't even controlled the NI government for an hour of its history. You're trying to go to the Moon when you haven't even walked on dry land yet. Becoming the largest party in the north should be SF's medium term aim and not this juvenile nonsense.

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Probably is a good collection method.

However, it bring us back to the bad old days of the 1960's before one man one vote.  At that time the householder had a vote and no one else in the family.  So, he/she who fills in the census form has the vote on behalf of everyone else.

Not sure how you cannot ensure that each person in the household has had a say and whether each of them is eligible to vote.

Sinn Fein have shown themselves to be the progressive party out of the two for the last number of years. They no longer align themselves with any religion and that is evident in the same sex marriage and abortion referendums. However the DUP are lagging behind and showing little signs of being a progressive party. There is no way they will ever support same sex marriage or abortion. Instead they are trying to turn make themselves more appealing to staunchly religious Irish Catholics who have staunchly religious views - this is exactly why she is attending GAA games because the DUP have identified a market they can appeal to. Whether this works remains to be seen.

However, with that being said more and more people are breaking away from the stranglehold religion has on in the north and south. DUP are not being progressive enough and with them bringing a religious tone to politics the DUP will find themselves as an out of date party that will lose its appeal. It is easy to see that this has started already and it will not be long until a United Ireland will be on the agenda.

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.

The problem is 3 recent polls have it as a toss of a coin with one actually having unity with a slim lead and yet on Spotlight last week Noel Thompson was only quoting one ridiculously flawed poll with 21% support for Unity. Peter Weir then lied and said no poll had ever shown anything other than a resounding support for the Union. The whole time Niall O Donnghaile said nothing like an idiot and didn't challenge either of them. The polls also are given a massive swerve by the media. Nationalists should be screaming the results at every opportunity to build momentum.

This is unwise and typically irresponsible from SF. The census is not an opinion poll on a political question.
I think the proportions of people describing themselves as Irish in the census might be useful data for a border poll campaign.
However SF have no plan for a UI, if they did their recent Ard Fheis would have proposed economies in expenditure that might leave some  funds for the project, but instead they demanded more spending on everything.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 28, 2018, 09:40:18 PM

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.

The problem is 3 recent polls have it as a toss of a coin with one actually having unity with a slim lead and yet on Spotlight last week Noel Thompson was only quoting one ridiculously flawed poll with 21% support for Unity. Peter Weir then lied and said no poll had ever shown anything other than a resounding support for the Union. The whole time Niall O Donnghaile said nothing like an idiot and didn't challenge either of them. The polls also are given a massive swerve by the media. Nationalists should be screaming the results at every opportunity to build momentum.

Agreed. Even the headline for the BBC poll (which was almost 50/50) was "Fewer NI People Feel British than other UK Regions." Talk about burying the lede. If there's anything resembling a hard brexit, a unity vote could pass. I would be very disappointed if Irish govt did not secure a border poll in such circumstances.

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 28, 2018, 09:40:18 PM

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.

The problem is 3 recent polls have it as a toss of a coin with one actually having unity with a slim lead and yet on Spotlight last week Noel Thompson was only quoting one ridiculously flawed poll with 21% support for Unity. Peter Weir then lied and said no poll had ever shown anything other than a resounding support for the Union. The whole time Niall O Donnghaile said nothing like an idiot and didn't challenge either of them. The polls also are given a massive swerve by the media. Nationalists should be screaming the results at every opportunity to build momentum.

Agreed. Even the headline for the BBC poll (which was almost 50/50) was "Fewer NI People Feel British than other UK Regions." Talk about burying the lede. If there's anything resembling a hard brexit, a unity vote could pass. I would be very disappointed if Irish govt did not secure a border poll in such circumstances.

Well at least you are giving yourself plenty of time. For the disappointment that is

Not a mission of their being a vote for UI in an RoI referendum. And the chances of there being a referendum only slightly less remote

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 10:07:12 PM

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 28, 2018, 09:40:18 PM

Quote from: weareros on June 28, 2018, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on June 27, 2018, 11:21:47 AM
Great idea. Wonder is it allowed.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/06/27/news/test-appetite-for-irish-unity-in-census-says-sinn-fe-in-1366961/

Not a good way to test opinion. They should look to see why nearly every opinion poll (done via phone) did not forecast a Trump presidency. People found phone opinion polls too self-identifying and it does not capture the shy vote. The census would have been less chance of catching  the shy vote given that it reveals answers down to the household level. So severely stupid idea.

The recent BBC poll is much more accurate for these reasons and shows the vote for unity is very close. However, knowing Sinn Fein, they will make it jingoistic and scupper the chances. Likewise the DUP campaigning for the Union can only hurt their prospects, too.  Both parties would be wise to keep a low profile in such a vote.

The problem is 3 recent polls have it as a toss of a coin with one actually having unity with a slim lead and yet on Spotlight last week Noel Thompson was only quoting one ridiculously flawed poll with 21% support for Unity. Peter Weir then lied and said no poll had ever shown anything other than a resounding support for the Union. The whole time Niall O Donnghaile said nothing like an idiot and didn't challenge either of them. The polls also are given a massive swerve by the media. Nationalists should be screaming the results at every opportunity to build momentum.

Agreed. Even the headline for the BBC poll (which was almost 50/50) was "Fewer NI People Feel British than other UK Regions." Talk about burying the lede. If there's anything resembling a hard brexit, a unity vote could pass. I would be very disappointed if Irish govt did not secure a border poll in such circumstances.

Well at least you are giving yourself plenty of time. For the disappointment that is

Not a mission of their being a vote for UI in an RoI referendum. And the chances of there being a referendum only slightly less remote

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

This seems to be Unionists are pinning their hopes on these days

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy.  The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy.  The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy.  The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're very clued in for someone with 38 posts🤔🤔

Quote from: bennydorano on June 29, 2018, 09:08:17 AM
You're very clued in for someone with 38 posts🤔🤔

You do realise you don't have to post on this board to be able to read it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

Quote from: Rossfan on June 29, 2018, 10:06:43 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

Good man you can google too - did you not read what he posted?

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy.  The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're right. Seafoid had approximately the right number, but the wrong label.

The deficit (i.e. spending vs. income, as represented by borrowing) for the 12 months to March was £42.6 Billion (https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3).

The national debt is £1.79 Trillion (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/december2017).

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're right. Seafoid had approximately the right number, but the wrong label.

The deficit (i.e. spending vs. income, as represented by borrowing) for the 12 months to March was £42.6 Billion (https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3).

The national debt is £1.79 Trillion (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/december2017).

For someone constantly being very diligent for factually correct posts, you can see how this wrong label is simply being used by the poster for shock value.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

The UK is in serious shit , young man
1.7tn is the debt alright.  The deficit as a %  GDP is eyewatering. You can troll.all you want but the numbers won't change.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/27/project-fear-coming-true-after-all-two-years-later-brexit

Osborne warned that the Treasury's best minds had reached a terrible conclusion: that leaving the European Union would knock 6% off economic growth by 2030, costing each household £4,300 a year.

Last week, Bank of England governor Mark Carney said the UK was already following the trajectory mapped out by the Treasury.



Business Today: sign up for a morning shot of financial news

 

Read more

He said the UK had already lost almost 2% of predicted growth and 4% from household incomes. This translates into a £900 loss per household. Most of the damage, he said, was Brexit-related. The result is that the economy is £40bn smaller than it would have been without Brexit; it's possible to show that this amounts to a £15bn loss of tax revenue, or £300m a week.

The public, on the other hand, appeared to be nonplussed. This is partly because the loss is a notional one, based on economic forecasts that the Treasury and Bank of England have become notorious for getting wrong over the last 10 years.

Carney made this warning explicit in a speech last week that revealed the Bank is prepared to withdraw its plans for raising interest rates if this happens. Inflation, he said, had cut household spending power and accounted for around a third of the £900 loss. The remaining two-thirds was due to lost productivity – and that was largely due to a collapse in investment.

Figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development documenting foreign direct investment show a 90% collapse in flows to the UK in 2017 compared with the previous year. Granted, the previous year was characterised by a strong recovery from a miserable 2014 and 2015. Nevertheless, a 90% fall in funds coming to the UK shows how fragile Britain's reputation among corporate investors has become, and how positive sentiment can evaporate almost overnight.

Large domestic companies are of the same mind. They are the main losers from the Brexit vote and the costly trade and customs arrangements it could usher in. They are the most averse to making investment decisions until the situation is clearer. And even then, if it becomes obvious that a hard Brexit is the most likely result, with a customs deal no better than Canada's, they might ditch their investment plans altogether.

 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/25/uk-economy-posts-worst-quarterly-gdp-figures-for-five-years

The weakest household spending for three years and falling levels of business investment dragged the economy to the worst quarter for five years, official statisticians have said.

The Office for National Statisticsconfirmed its previous estimate that GDP growth slumped to 0.1% in the first quarter, while sticking to its view that the "beast from the east" had little impact. 



Nottingham has lowest household disposable income per head in UK

 

Read more

The latest figures will further stoke concerns over the strength of the UK economy, amid increasing signals for deteriorating growth as Britain prepares to leave the EU next year. Some economists, including officials at the Bank of England, thought the growth rate would be revised higher as more data became available.

The figures show the services industries contributed the most to GDP growth, with an increase of 0.3% in the first quarter, while household spending grew at a meagre 0.2%. The construction industry declined by 2.7% and business investment fell by 0.2%.

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 10:30:59 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

The UK is in serious shit , young man

You are full of shit, your posts are a means to be top poster on this site, most are cut and paste from web sites, you are the most uninformed person on this board.  You are a bit like the Tory Government, make it up as you go along.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 10:36:16 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 10:30:59 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

The UK is in serious shit , young man

You are full of shit, your posts are a means to be top poster on this site, most are cut and paste from web sites, you are the most uninformed person on this board.  You are a bit like the Tory Government, make it up as you go along.

Are you looking for a reaction?
What's GDP outlook for the UK for the next 5 years ?

He's probably just another being affected by the heatwave and had decided to take his aggression out on Seafóidín.
Or maybe he's just a Brexiteer in heat

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 11:14:21 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 10:36:16 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 10:30:59 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

The UK is in serious shit , young man

You are full of shit, your posts are a means to be top poster on this site, most are cut and paste from web sites, you are the most uninformed person on this board.  You are a bit like the Tory Government, make it up as you go along.

Are you looking for a reaction?
What's GDP outlook for the UK for the next 5 years ?

I am sure you will cut and paste some shite from the interweb to let us all know.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 12:12:59 PM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 11:14:21 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 10:36:16 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 10:30:59 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

The UK is in serious shit , young man

You are full of shit, your posts are a means to be top poster on this site, most are cut and paste from web sites, you are the most uninformed person on this board.  You are a bit like the Tory Government, make it up as you go along.

Are you looking for a reaction?
What's GDP outlook for the UK for the next 5 years ?

I am sure you will cut and paste some shite from the interweb to let us all know.

What's your view on it?

My view is you post lies to get a reaction / your post count up, or maybe you just can't determine what the truth is and believe every article on the web!

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
My view is you post lies to get a reaction / your post count up, or maybe you just can't determine what the truth is and believe every article on the web!

That isn't really a view on Brexit.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
My view is you post lies to get a reaction / your post count up, or maybe you just can't determine what the truth is and believe every article on the web!

Have you spent your confirmation money yet?

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

You can say it undermines the GFA but that is not same as saying that a UI is any more appealing to the respective citizenry of RoI and NI

As for the economy, GB being outside the EU is a disaster for NI and for ROI. But the argument that NI needs to leave it largest free trade partner in order to maintain its position with its second biggest free trade partner has not yet been set out. If you find in convincing could you set out the argument?

TBF Seafoid was way off the mark here.

Not only did he say deficit, he also described what the deficit is and then proceeded to post the figure for national debt.

This is the same thing as quoting your mortgage balance when examining how much you overspent on your grocery budget, so to call it the wrong label is the understatement of the century.

Im proUI, opposed to Brexit and sovereign debt BTW... but muddling basic facts like this is an instant turn off to any argument

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're right. Seafoid had approximately the right number, but the wrong label.

The deficit (i.e. spending vs. income, as represented by borrowing) for the 12 months to March was £42.6 Billion (https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3).

The national debt is £1.79 Trillion (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/december2017).

UK lives beyond its means. So do a lot of others.

No matter what Bexits long term implications are its safe to say that the short term implications will be negative. The belt tightening isn't over yet.

NI is a trillion miles away from being able to survive without a major subvention. That subvention could never be extracted from the RoI economy. It's a fraction of the UK economy though

It all boils down to money. If its gonna cost people thousands for a utd ire then it wont be voted in.

Quote from: snoopdog on June 29, 2018, 07:52:53 PM
It all boils down to money. If its gonna cost people thousands for a utd ire then it wont be voted in.

There would also be synergies
There are less with the UK
There is a lot of duplication between NI and the South
If there was a programme to identify best practice between the 2 things would also improve.
The pension funds do nothing with their money.

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 07:57:48 PM

Quote from: snoopdog on June 29, 2018, 07:52:53 PM
It all boils down to money. If its gonna cost people thousands for a utd ire then it wont be voted in.

There would also be synergies
There are less with the UK
There is a lot of duplication between NI and the South
If there was a programme to identify best practice between the 2 things would also improve.
The pension funds do nothing with their money.

Synergies and best practices!

Are you a management consultant?

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're right. Seafoid had approximately the right number, but the wrong label.

The deficit (i.e. spending vs. income, as represented by borrowing) for the 12 months to March was £42.6 Billion (https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3).

The national debt is £1.79 Trillion (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/december2017).

Add to this that the UK's current account deficit was £16.9 billion in Quarter 1 deficit, so the whole economy is living beyond its means. Ireland has a current account surplus of €14 billion.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2018, 12:57:11 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

You're right. Seafoid had approximately the right number, but the wrong label.

The deficit (i.e. spending vs. income, as represented by borrowing) for the 12 months to March was £42.6 Billion (https://www.ft.com/content/16cb28c0-479f-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3).

The national debt is £1.79 Trillion (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/december2017).

Add to this that the UK's current account deficit was £16.9 billion in Quarter 1 deficit, so the whole economy is living beyond its means. Ireland has a current account surplus of €14 billion.

And it's going to come to a point where nobody will lend to them.

But just focusing on one metric may obscure the bigger picture.. The UK has very poor velocity of money which means that the money is not getting to the people. A lot of new jobs are low wage . Retail sales are very weak. They all feed into the deficits.

The UK is in a structural crisis.
And Brexit is not the answer.

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere?

Far be it from me to speak for Seafoid, but given the modest amount of tax these companies pay their reporting their profit elsewhere might make a big difference on the headline GDP but make little enough difference to anything of any importance.

Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2018, 09:03:53 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere?

Far be it from me to speak for Seafoid, but given the modest amount of tax these companies pay their reporting their profit elsewhere might make a big difference on the headline GDP but make little enough difference to anything of any importance.

The 40% of the Corporation Tax that comes from just 10 companies might strike you as modest but I wager few would agree

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

When are the lazy whiny whingy Nordies going to get off their lazy fat arses and do some work and generate some GDP for themselves?
Their biggest political party is actively pursuing a policy that will reduce their bit of an economy by 10 or 15%.
Their 2nd biggest party are going around chanting Border Poll Border Poll non stop.
Yet when Irish unity is suggested Unionists and Nationalists alike come out with -can you lot afford to give us loads of free money?

Time to start growing up lads and lassies - Scottish oil or 26 Co taxpayers don't owe ye lot a living.

Have a nice day now😀

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

All very well but despite your great ability to spout economic data you made the simple mistake of not knowing the difference between recurrent deficit and national debt.

UK is debt ridden but the cuts in public spending have brought the quarterly deficit virtually to an end but it may fluctuate for another while depending on tax income. 

However, the cost of removing the deficit has been borne by the public while companies revel in greatly lowered corporate tax as a bribe to stay in low tax UK after Brexit.

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 01, 2018, 11:22:12 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

All very well but despite your great ability to spout economic data you made the simple mistake of not knowing the difference between recurrent deficit and national debt.

UK is debt ridden but the cuts in public spending have brought the quarterly deficit virtually to an end but it may fluctuate for another while depending on tax income. 

However, the cost of removing the deficit has been borne by the public while companies revel in greatly lowered corporate tax as a bribe to stay in low tax UK after Brexit.

It was a mistake. So what.
The UK economy is stagnant. It needs to GROW to pay of all the debt.
And the level of investment is atrocious

This is a structural crisis . There is no way back to equilibrium.

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

Quote from: Rossfan on July 01, 2018, 10:52:49 AM
When are the lazy whiny whingy Nordies going to get off their lazy fat arses and do some work and generate some GDP for themselves?
Their biggest political party is actively pursuing a policy that will reduce their bit of an economy by 10 or 15%.
Their 2nd biggest party are going around chanting Border Poll Border Poll non stop.
Yet when Irish unity is suggested Unionists and Nationalists alike come out with -can you lot afford to give us loads of free money?

Time to start growing up lads and lassies - Scottish oil or 26 Co taxpayers don't owe ye lot a living.

Have a nice day now😀

It is indeed time to grow up. But no signs of it. And even if there were signs of it now how long would it take to be a non issue. It's a big problem for everyone in NI and a big problem for Irish Nationalists everywhere. So who has the solutions?

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

It would need a lead in time but it could be done

By changing the focus of the economy away from asset bubbles
By improving the links between research and indigenous firms.
Via a national investment strategy
By harnessing the pension funds instead of having them invest in bonds
By reforming secondary education
By taking the finger out generally.

I don't think the Dublin only strategy  is particularly efficient
There is a lot of fat in the current model.

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

It would need a lead in time but it could be done

By changing the focus of the economy away from asset bubbles
By improving the links between research and indigenous firms.
Via a national investment strategy
By harnessing the pension funds instead of having them invest in bonds
By reforming secondary education
By taking the finger out generally.

I don't think the Dublin only strategy  is particularly efficient
There is a lot of fat in the current model.

So what is your timeframe? 25 years, 50 years, 75 years? Or longer?

Nobody could accuse you of overdoing the specifics

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 07:11:09 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

It would need a lead in time but it could be done

By changing the focus of the economy away from asset bubbles
By improving the links between research and indigenous firms.
Via a national investment strategy
By harnessing the pension funds instead of having them invest in bonds
By reforming secondary education
By taking the finger out generally.

I don't think the Dublin only strategy  is particularly efficient
There is a lot of fat in the current model.

So what is your timeframe? 25 years, 50 years, 75 years? Or longer?

Nobody could accuse you of overdoing the specifics

I didn't get paid for it so what is the point?
Neoliberalism is going to collapse within 10 years . We are in the equivalent of the 1930s. Conventional thinking in the 1930s couldn't predict the 50s.
If Ireland got organised I think 25 years could be doable.
But it depends on the deep state, doesn't it?

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 07:18:36 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 07:11:09 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

It would need a lead in time but it could be done

By changing the focus of the economy away from asset bubbles
By improving the links between research and indigenous firms.
Via a national investment strategy
By harnessing the pension funds instead of having them invest in bonds
By reforming secondary education
By taking the finger out generally.

I don't think the Dublin only strategy  is particularly efficient
There is a lot of fat in the current model.

So what is your timeframe? 25 years, 50 years, 75 years? Or longer?

Nobody could accuse you of overdoing the specifics

I didn't get paid for it so what is the point?
Neoliberalism is going to collapse within 10 years . We are in the equivalent of the 1930s. Conventional thinking in the 1930s couldn't predict the 50s.
If Ireland got organised I think 25 years could be doable.
But it depends on the deep state, doesn't it?

Fair enough you don't have any specifics but are you aware of anybody who does?

Somebody out there who supports the idea of a UI must have some idea of what the burden the subvention of the NI treasury would place on the RoI economy? And the timescale within which that burden could start to be met?

People can talk about demographics in NI but that will do nothing to address the seeming impossibility of winning a referendum in RoI if it has been triggered by a referendum in NI where northern voters have been guaranteed no reduction in public spending as a result of voting for a UI

Quote from: LCohen on July 02, 2018, 08:29:18 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 07:18:36 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 07:11:09 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 03:27:36 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 10:40:46 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 01, 2018, 06:55:42 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 10:07:57 PM

Quote from: LCohen on June 30, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
Seafoid,

Have you any analysis on the prospects for the Irish economy post brexit? Or it's prospects if 1 or more of the foreign companies it relied upon started reporting its taxable profits elsewhere? Or it's prospects if both happened?

Can you name a less balanced western economy than RoI?

And as this is a UI debate have you any analysis that points to RoI being able to afford a UI as it currently stands and then sensitised said analysis in the light of the 2 risk factors I have outlined?

More importantly has anybody else who proposes a UI carried out this analysis and prepared to publish it?

As things stand LCohen  the economy will blow up when the US does.
A lot of companies are going to go to the wall.
The groupthink is nuts.
Assuming the money in the financial orgs could be saved and the economic system changed to focus on demand Ireland would have seveal advantages such as age profile, level of education, productivity.
The key thing is to hoard capital now before all hell breaks loose.

I am working on a  few things in this regard. I think the pension funds are key. NI needs massive investment and the funds do nothing with their money.

So you have nothing that suggests that RoI could afford a UI?

Can RoI generate another £9bn pa?
Can the £9bn be reduced via productivity improvements?

Yes and yes but not under this system

You do know that the real bill is substantially in excess of £9 bn?

But anyway, tell me how RoI could find £9bn p.a.?

It would need a lead in time but it could be done

By changing the focus of the economy away from asset bubbles
By improving the links between research and indigenous firms.
Via a national investment strategy
By harnessing the pension funds instead of having them invest in bonds
By reforming secondary education
By taking the finger out generally.

I don't think the Dublin only strategy  is particularly efficient
There is a lot of fat in the current model.

So what is your timeframe? 25 years, 50 years, 75 years? Or longer?

Nobody could accuse you of overdoing the specifics

I didn't get paid for it so what is the point?
Neoliberalism is going to collapse within 10 years . We are in the equivalent of the 1930s. Conventional thinking in the 1930s couldn't predict the 50s.
If Ireland got organised I think 25 years could be doable.
But it depends on the deep state, doesn't it?

Fair enough you don't have any specifics but are you aware of anybody who does?

Somebody out there who supports the idea of a UI must have some idea of what the burden the subvention of the NI treasury would place on the RoI economy? And the timescale within which that burden could start to be met?

People can talk about demographics in NI but that will do nothing to address the seeming impossibility of winning a referendum in RoI if it has been triggered by a referendum in NI where northern voters have been guaranteed no reduction in public spending as a result of voting for a UI

Peter Hitchens describes what needs to be done. A policy has to be devised, put to the people in an election, won and implemented.

https://youtu.be/QUjLmw4bgq0

It won't happen on its own. ImportaNT things generally don't. 

A start would be to calculate the cost of separation and the potential of NI.
Expressing it in terms of money would convince more people.

So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

"Irish Nationalism" in all its political persuasions  hasn't got a policy other than "Border poll now, Border poll now " from one outfit.

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.   

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.

I am always amazed when a random selection of words is grammatically correct. A variant of the infinite monkey theory

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 10:43:48 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.

I am always amazed when a random selection of words is grammatically correct. A variant of the infinite monkey theory

I think it might be a bot

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 10:43:48 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.

I am always amazed when a random selection of words is grammatically correct. A variant of the infinite monkey theory

You are not thinking about the system. You think a UI will just happen, do you ?

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 04:35:04 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 10:43:48 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.

I am always amazed when a random selection of words is grammatically correct. A variant of the infinite monkey theory

You are not thinking about the system. You think a UI will just happen, do you ?

I don't it will happen in 100 years. And I'm certain it won't happen within 50 years

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 11:26:45 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 01, 2018, 11:22:12 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

All very well but despite your great ability to spout economic data you made the simple mistake of not knowing the difference between recurrent deficit and national debt.

UK is debt ridden but the cuts in public spending have brought the quarterly deficit virtually to an end but it may fluctuate for another while depending on tax income. 

However, the cost of removing the deficit has been borne by the public while companies revel in greatly lowered corporate tax as a bribe to stay in low tax UK after Brexit.

It was a mistake. So what.
The UK economy is stagnant. It needs to GROW to pay of all the debt.
And the level of investment is atrocious

This is a structural crisis . There is no way back to equilibrium.

Just read this, made my day, this is someone trying to give fiscal policy on this board, just as well you aren't in charge of anything important, if when you don't know the basics you say it was a mistake so what, heavens above.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Stan Laurel on July 05, 2018, 08:25:08 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 11:26:45 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 01, 2018, 11:22:12 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

All very well but despite your great ability to spout economic data you made the simple mistake of not knowing the difference between recurrent deficit and national debt.

UK is debt ridden but the cuts in public spending have brought the quarterly deficit virtually to an end but it may fluctuate for another while depending on tax income. 

However, the cost of removing the deficit has been borne by the public while companies revel in greatly lowered corporate tax as a bribe to stay in low tax UK after Brexit.

It was a mistake. So what.
The UK economy is stagnant. It needs to GROW to pay of all the debt.
And the level of investment is atrocious

This is a structural crisis . There is no way back to equilibrium.

Just read this, made my day, this is someone trying to give fiscal policy on this board, just as well you aren't in charge of anything important, if when you don't know the basics you say it was a mistake so what, heavens above.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

FFS
You don't know anything about the UK economy.

Quote from: LCohen on July 05, 2018, 07:22:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 04:35:04 PM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 10:43:48 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2018, 10:02:13 AM

Quote from: LCohen on July 03, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
So it's your policy to develop a policy. Is Irish Nationalism any further down the road than you on this one?

Things will only change when the Euro collapses I imagine. Groupthink is a very powerful force. Change usually only happens when there is no alternative.
A lot of the structures of life in Ireland date from 100 years ago, the last time there was a serious change.

I am always amazed when a random selection of words is grammatically correct. A variant of the infinite monkey theory

You are not thinking about the system. You think a UI will just happen, do you ?

I don't it will happen in 100 years. And I'm certain it won't happen within 50 years

Unionists could be a minority in Co Down by 2068 at the rate things are going 

Quote from: seafoid on July 05, 2018, 08:58:42 PM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on July 05, 2018, 08:25:08 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 01, 2018, 11:26:45 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 01, 2018, 11:22:12 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2018, 11:10:20 AM

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 30, 2018, 10:38:55 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:44:07 AM

Quote from: Hardy on June 29, 2018, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Stan Laurel on June 29, 2018, 08:28:01 AM

Quote from: seafoid on June 29, 2018, 06:05:49 AM

Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2018, 12:49:54 AM

Quote from: LCohen on June 28, 2018, 10:56:40 PM

Brexit is a mess. But as a driver of UI it's a red herring

Not so, the undermining of the whole 1998 settlement and the NI economy is very definitely influential.

I agree. The UK is close to bankruptcy. The deficit is the difference between govt income and spending.  It is €1.7 Trillion pounds now. A no deal Brexit could be the end.
Unionists are in a very difficult situation.

Do you just pull figures out of the sky?

What is the true figure?

Between spending and revenue it is certainly not 1.7 Trillion but seafood loves the fake news, any post for him is a good post to rack up his posting count, nearly all of his posts are bullshit, cut and pasted from some web site or other.

In the last quarter the UK government broke even in terms of income and expenditure. So the current deficit has been brought under control and is zero.

However, the UK government debt is now around £1.7 trillion.

The debt is partly due to bailing out the banks and the remainder is running a government in most years in deficit between income and expenditure.

GDP growth in Q1 was 0.1%
The UK needs growth to repay the debt.
Tax receipt growth is related to pay rises. These are a function of investment.

Real wages in the UK are still 6.5% below where they were in February 2008. They are the same as they were two years ago

Look at investment. 
Cutting Govt spending is no.panacea either.
Demand is not being supported. The UK will probably default

All very well but despite your great ability to spout economic data you made the simple mistake of not knowing the difference between recurrent deficit and national debt.

UK is debt ridden but the cuts in public spending have brought the quarterly deficit virtually to an end but it may fluctuate for another while depending on tax income. 

However, the cost of removing the deficit has been borne by the public while companies revel in greatly lowered corporate tax as a bribe to stay in low tax UK after Brexit.

It was a mistake. So what.
The UK economy is stagnant. It needs to GROW to pay of all the debt.
And the level of investment is atrocious

This is a structural crisis . There is no way back to equilibrium.

Just read this, made my day, this is someone trying to give fiscal policy on this board, just as well you aren't in charge of anything important, if when you don't know the basics you say it was a mistake so what, heavens above.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

FFS
You don't know anything about the UK economy.

And you know f**k all,  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is it possible to embarrass Seafoid?? Getting owned all over the place on this thread but still posting away.