Money, Dublin and the GAA

[Dinny Breen]

So Ciar, who were you previously registered as?

Can you explain how the games development funding that went to mainly on introducing primary school children to the games directly led to Dublin winning the 2013 Leinster hurling championship (and being a whisker away from an All Ireland final)?

And given all the money that's been pumped into hurling since (Games development coaches equally divide their time between football/hurling/boys/girls) how is it that the Dubs hurlers have disimproved so much? Now admittedly none of the games development coaches would have coached a single hurler who played with the Dubs, but still I'm intrigued by your answer, seeing as you know so much!

How does Games Development benefit Dublin?

Let's see does it help develop talent, only if you consider the formative years of football/hurling to be massively important, I don't by the way.

Now does it help talent identification - absolutely 100%.

It introduces the games to greater numbers than ever before, therefore the more players playing the more talented players playing.

Now how else does it help, well all these new players have to play somewhere, but you can't just rock up to a Dublin club and start kicking ball, nope you pay a membership.

Kilmacud Crokes - https://kilmacudcrokes.com/club/membership

Family +3 Children €450
Family 2 Adults 2 Kids €355
Family 1 Child €245
Nursey 1 Child €170

A child can't join on his own.

Recently played an u8 tournament there - they had 8 teams, say 80 kids. That means Kilmacud u8s generate the guts of 20k for the club. Add in memberships across all their teams and you are into ridiculous revenues from membership.

But how does this help the Dublin Senior Footballers?

Well, all this money means they can improve facilities help attract more members including crucially the middle classes. Why are the middle classes important because it's known this socioeconomic group support their children in sport and their children are less likely to fall away. Again the longer they stay the more memberships the better the facilities.

So like most clubs Kilmacud would have a pyramid structure where everything is driven towards playing senior hurling or senior football. It's a bit of survival of the fittest, as these young players excel in their clubs with excellent facilities from astro to hurling walls to to gyms, they get identified by Dublin development squads where they get exposed to excellent coaching. Again this feed back into the club where they get to play against similar clubs with similar pathways in the most competitive club championship in Ireland. A club championship aides massively in the development of inter-county standard footballers.

Has the Dublin Senior Hurling Championship improved? Wonder where the All-Ireland Senior Club Hurling champs are from!!!!

Kilkenny

Damn 2 years ago so.

[Owenmoresider]

So if Leitrim players all get free cars and dinners, jobs in Carrick, a lorry load of backroom staff (Jim Gavins word) their 3,500 registered GAA players will turnout a 25 as good as the best of Dublins 39,000?
Only 1 team can win says he.
Yes but when it's the same team every year...
GAA you've got a problem

What has cars and dinners got to do with it? Plus backroom staff - I heard Derry had about 14 or 15 and they're in Div. 4.

Nobody was complaining about Dublin'spopulation 15 years ago - it was never mentioned.  Now, it's an issue as they are winning.

If you translate this to club level for example, in Galway, are people complaining because Corofin are winning the championship? - is their population bigger than clubs in other parts of Galway? No.  Have they more money than other clubs in Galway? No.

By all accounts they have a huge catchment area so it's conceivable that they have a bigger population than most, not compared to the city or town clubs but to the rest, and the penetration would be far greater than in the urban areas as it almost always is.

[Dinny Breen]

Good man Dinny!

That was a great effort.

Yep, population, and club membership is a huge advantage. Everyone seems to want to live in Dublin. A huge amount of those Kilmacud members are country people who've moved in. When my team plays Kilmacud, all you can hear is country accents of various hues from their supporters.

And the standard of Dublin club football means that the strong lads out of minor get amazing experience straight away, and sets them up, if they're good enough, to progression to senior intercounty.

Then you have geography of none of the Dubs players having any distance of note to travel for training.

Games development funding completely irrelevant to the Dubs senior team. Likes it's irrelvant to the senior hurling team and to the U20s and minor teams.

Actually amazing how many of the Dubs senior team have father's who played senior football. Yet people seem to think it was games development coaches in primary schools that introduced these lads to football. Bizarre.

They help finance the club structures which feeds into the county, they are a factor. Hard to quantify but a factor that can't be ignored simply because of the inequality across the country.

I have always highlighted Dublin's culture and son's of son's of son's will always be part of that culture.

[tonto1888]

So Ciar, who were you previously registered as?

Can you explain how the games development funding that went to mainly on introducing primary school children to the games directly led to Dublin winning the 2013 Leinster hurling championship (and being a whisker away from an All Ireland final)?

And given all the money that's been pumped into hurling since (Games development coaches equally divide their time between football/hurling/boys/girls) how is it that the Dubs hurlers have disimproved so much? Now admittedly none of the games development coaches would have coached a single hurler who played with the Dubs, but still I'm intrigued by your answer, seeing as you know so much!

How does Games Development benefit Dublin?

Let's see does it help develop talent, only if you consider the formative years of football/hurling to be massively important, I don't by the way.

Now does it help talent identification - absolutely 100%.

It introduces the games to greater numbers than ever before, therefore the more players playing the more talented players playing.

Now how else does it help, well all these new players have to play somewhere, but you can't just rock up to a Dublin club and start kicking ball, nope you pay a membership.

Kilmacud Crokes - https://kilmacudcrokes.com/club/membership

Family +3 Children €450
Family 2 Adults 2 Kids €355
Family 1 Child €245
Nursey 1 Child €170

A child can't join on his own.

Recently played an u8 tournament there - they had 8 teams, say 80 kids. That means Kilmacud u8s generate the guts of 20k for the club. Add in memberships across all their teams and you are into ridiculous revenues from membership.

But how does this help the Dublin Senior Footballers?

Well, all this money means they can improve facilities help attract more members including crucially the middle classes. Why are the middle classes important because it's known this socioeconomic group support their children in sport and their children are less likely to fall away. Again the longer they stay the more memberships the better the facilities.

So like most clubs Kilmacud would have a pyramid structure where everything is driven towards playing senior hurling or senior football. It's a bit of survival of the fittest, as these young players excel in their clubs with excellent facilities from astro to hurling walls to to gyms, they get identified by Dublin development squads where they get exposed to excellent coaching. Again this feed back into the club where they get to play against similar clubs with similar pathways in the most competitive club championship in Ireland. A club championship aides massively in the development of inter-county standard footballers.

Has the Dublin Senior Hurling Championship improved? Wonder where the All-Ireland Senior Club Hurling champs are from!!!!

Kilkenny

Damn 2 years ago so.

Hahaha. If I'm not mistaken Cuala won 2 in a row didn't they

[priceyreilly]

Good man Dinny!

That was a great effort.

Yep, population, and club membership is a huge advantage. Everyone seems to want to live in Dublin. A huge amount of those Kilmacud members are country people who've moved in. When my team plays Kilmacud, all you can hear is country accents of various hues from their supporters.

And the standard of Dublin club football means that the strong lads out of minor get amazing experience straight away, and sets them up, if they're good enough, to progression to senior intercounty.

Then you have geography of none of the Dubs players having any distance of note to travel for training.

Games development funding completely irrelevant to the Dubs senior team. Likes it's irrelvant to the senior hurling team and to the U20s and minor teams.

Actually amazing how many of the Dubs senior team have father's who played senior football. Yet people seem to think it was games development coaches in primary schools that introduced these lads to football. Bizarre.

Time after time it gets pointed out to you but you just stick your fingers in your ears!

The games development funding plays a vital role in producing and identifying talent but it's just the first step in the financial doping scandal. These professional coaches go into schools, coach kids the basics at a young age and encourage them to join the local club. In the clubs they coach the coaches and take sessions themselves but one of their key roles is identifying talent and reporting their findings to the various regional of hurling development officers who get these players into the development squads and the elite player program.
The money Dublin GAA save by having the professional coaches paid for is freed up to invest in these development squads and elsewhere. The coaches, football, strength and conditioning and elsewhere, the sports scientists, nutritionists etc involved in developing talent in Dublin are second to none and they don't come cheap. The results from this elite player pathway are there for all to see. It's a system that has been up and running since 2001. They have highly paid officials including a strategic program manager overseeing all of this.
The underage teams have big backroom teams but of course, these are eclipsed by the much publicised senior backroom teams. Again, these don't come cheap and again, having nearly 100 professional coaches paid for makes it easier to afford. What also helps is the huge sponsorship money Dublin receive. This has increased hugely off the back of the success that has come about off the back of Dublin GAA being handed millions.
The financial doping is a multi-layered process but it's all connected. In an amateur sport where you can't buy players and have to progress with what you have, a multi million euro player creation system is a massive advantage. That's an understatement. When you add this to multi million euro senior team preparations, you can see why Dublin have dominated senior football and why Dublin should be absolutely embarrassed by the hurlers' failure to reach close to their levels.
The bottom line is that the buying of success does not only go against the ethos of the GAA but it is blatant cheating. And it must be stopped. We're getting closer to the day that will come thankfully.

[Hound]

Time after time it gets pointed out to you but you just stick your fingers in your ears!

The games development funding plays a vital role in producing and identifying talent but it's just the first step in the financial doping scandal. These professional coaches go into schools, coach kids the basics at a young age and encourage them to join the local club. In the clubs they coach the coaches and take sessions themselves but one of their key roles is identifying talent and reporting their findings to the various regional of hurling development officers who get these players into the development squads and the elite player program.

That's just complete lies.

The games developments officers have absolutely nothing to do with identifying talent.

For example, at U14 level, the mentors of my lad's team were asked to bring their best 10 players to a Dublin development trials day. The mentors, who were parents like me, had the decision to make which 10 out of the about lads were going to do. Our games development officer never went near these lads. Ever.

My lad was one of the 10, so I went along. Now, he knew and I knew that there was no chance of ever playing for the Dubs, but it was a great experience to get that tiny glimmer of hope!
From memory, they did 5 different 10/15 minute sessions, where they were mixed with one other club and doing various drills and taken by different trainers who were there. I remember David Henry and Declan Lally were there. I think Stephen O'Shaughnessy was co-ordinating it. There was probably 100 kids there, with 5 coaches plus the co-ordinator, so every coach worked with every player. There was was probably at least one other separate session with 100 more. 4 of our lads were asked back to a second session and they whittled them down until they got to a workable number.

The following year they start with the best of the lads, and ask the mentors in each team to identify any lads who missed out but they think warrant another look. The games development officers have zero impact or influence, many of them arent even Dubs ffs (we're on our fourth at my club in my time, and the 3rd one was the only Dub). I'd be surprised if most other counties don't have something similiar, albeit with much less numbers! But none of it has anything to do with games development funding directed at primary school children.

So yeah, you talk a load of shite about stuff you know nothing about.

[seafoid]

Time after time it gets pointed out to you but you just stick your fingers in your ears!

The games development funding plays a vital role in producing and identifying talent but it's just the first step in the financial doping scandal. These professional coaches go into schools, coach kids the basics at a young age and encourage them to join the local club. In the clubs they coach the coaches and take sessions themselves but one of their key roles is identifying talent and reporting their findings to the various regional of hurling development officers who get these players into the development squads and the elite player program.

That's just complete lies.

The games developments officers have absolutely nothing to do with identifying talent.

For example, at U14 level, the mentors of my lad's team were asked to bring their best 10 players to a Dublin development trials day. The mentors, who were parents like me, had the decision to make which 10 out of the about lads were going to do. Our games development officer never went near these lads. Ever.

My lad was one of the 10, so I went along. Now, he knew and I knew that there was no chance of ever playing for the Dubs, but it was a great experience to get that tiny glimmer of hope!
From memory, they did 5 different 10/15 minute sessions, where they were mixed with one other club and doing various drills and taken by different trainers who were there. I remember David Henry and Declan Lally were there. I think Stephen O'Shaughnessy was co-ordinating it. There was probably 100 kids there, with 5 coaches plus the co-ordinator, so every coach worked with every player. There was was probably at least one other separate session with 100 more. 4 of our lads were asked back to a second session and they whittled them down until they got to a workable number.

The following year they start with the best of the lads, and ask the mentors in each team to identify any lads who missed out but they think warrant another look. The games development officers have zero impact or influence, many of them arent even Dubs ffs (we're on our fourth at my club in my time, and the 3rd one was the only Dub). I'd be surprised if most other counties don't have something similiar, albeit with much less numbers! But none of it has anything to do with games development funding directed at primary school children.

So yeah, you talk a load of shite about stuff you know nothing about.

It's not about age 14 , Hound
It's about the system
"Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn't. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."

You can tell yourself the Dub thing is entirely natural all you want but people are are turning away from gaelic football.

[Hound]

It's not about age 14 , Hound
It's about the system
"Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn't. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."

You can tell yourself the Dub thing is entirely natural all you want but people are are turning away from gaelic football.

Well of course there's loads of Dubs, and we have a really good county development system that focus on football ability not size (hence a small lad like Murchan can get through). But that's nothing to do with the games development funding!

And of course we generate more money. Bryan Cullen I'd guess is a super S&C coach. Left Leinster to join Dublin, so he's getting paid. Do other counties have similar? I presume they do, but we'll get the best. My understanding is the co-ordinator of the development panel is an employee of Dublin County board, but he has to find volunteer coaches to run the stuff (who presumably get expenses).

I don't know how this is funded, AIG and other sponsorship I presume. But I do know that not a penny of the games development funding goes to coaching elite players (or any other costs for elite players).

There's plenty of genuine advantages Dublin have (population, Croke Park, sponsorship, everyone living in the county). But the games development funding has zero to do with Con and Mannion and Fenton and Jack being brilliant footballers.

[mup]

It's not about age 14 , Hound
It's about the system
"Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn't. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."

You can tell yourself the Dub thing is entirely natural all you want but people are are turning away from gaelic football.

Well of course there's loads of Dubs, and we have a really good county development system that focus on football ability not size (hence a small lad like Murchan can get through). But that's nothing to do with the games development funding!

And of course we generate more money. Bryan Cullen I'd guess is a super S&C coach. Left Leinster to join Dublin, so he's getting paid. Do other counties have similar? I presume they do, but we'll get the best. My understanding is the co-ordinator of the development panel is an employee of Dublin County board, but he has to find volunteer coaches to run the stuff (who presumably get expenses).

I don't know how this is funded, AIG and other sponsorship I presume. But I do know that not a penny of the games development funding goes to coaching elite players (or any other costs for elite players).

There's plenty of genuine advantages Dublin have (population, Croke Park, sponsorship, everyone living in the county). But the games development funding has zero to do with Con and Mannion and Fenton and Jack being brilliant footballers.

It's actually a bit scary that you think it has nothing to do with it. It's bonkers that you believe that not a penny of development funding goes to developing and coaching the elite players. Seriously?

It was refreshing to read the Examiner over the weekend where they interviewed three 'Dublin' coaches. Leaving aside that they were originally from other counties they all more or less said that the funding needs to be addressed.

[TheGreatest]

@Hound, lads on here are not interested in facts which you clearly have first hand knoweledge off, The funding issues is just a cheap jibe to try and take away from the senior footballers.

As you outlined, there is bigger advantages Dublin have than some coach coming up to Dublin to coach in primary schools to mostley kids who are not even in GAA clubs, no offence to any but its a glorifed P.E job, a lot of schools dont have P.E coaches, these lads come in and do an hour or 2 a week.

[johnnycool]

How much do Croke Park charge Dublin CB for the hire of Croke Park for a National League game?

[mup]

@Hound, lads on here are not interested in facts which you clearly have first hand knoweledge off, The funding issues is just a cheap jibe to try and take away from the senior footballers.

As you outlined, there is bigger advantages Dublin have than some coach coming up to Dublin to coach in primary schools to mostley kids who are not even in GAA clubs, no offence to any but its a glorifed P.E job, a lot of schools dont have P.E coaches, these lads come in and do an hour or 2 a week.

Yea like the funding part is completely made up.

It's like ye are all part of some sort of cult.

[seafoid]

It's not about age 14 , Hound
It's about the system
"Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn't. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."

You can tell yourself the Dub thing is entirely natural all you want but people are are turning away from gaelic football.

Well of course there's loads of Dubs, and we have a really good county development system that focus on football ability not size (hence a small lad like Murchan can get through). But that's nothing to do with the games development funding!

And of course we generate more money. Bryan Cullen I'd guess is a super S&C coach. Left Leinster to join Dublin, so he's getting paid. Do other counties have similar? I presume they do, but we'll get the best. My understanding is the co-ordinator of the development panel is an employee of Dublin County board, but he has to find volunteer coaches to run the stuff (who presumably get expenses).

I don't know how this is funded, AIG and other sponsorship I presume. But I do know that not a penny of the games development funding goes to coaching elite players (or any other costs for elite players).

There's plenty of genuine advantages Dublin have (population, Croke Park, sponsorship, everyone living in the county). But the games development funding has zero to do with Con and Mannion and Fenton and Jack being brilliant footballers.

Before the GAA started pumping the money in the Dubs won 43 Leinsters in 118 years
Since funding has been pumped in, they have won 15 out of 19
You can't explain that , Hound, unless you admit the truth

[TheGreatest]

It's not about age 14 , Hound
It's about the system
"Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn't. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."

You can tell yourself the Dub thing is entirely natural all you want but people are are turning away from gaelic football.

Well of course there's loads of Dubs, and we have a really good county development system that focus on football ability not size (hence a small lad like Murchan can get through). But that's nothing to do with the games development funding!

And of course we generate more money. Bryan Cullen I'd guess is a super S&C coach. Left Leinster to join Dublin, so he's getting paid. Do other counties have similar? I presume they do, but we'll get the best. My understanding is the co-ordinator of the development panel is an employee of Dublin County board, but he has to find volunteer coaches to run the stuff (who presumably get expenses).

I don't know how this is funded, AIG and other sponsorship I presume. But I do know that not a penny of the games development funding goes to coaching elite players (or any other costs for elite players).

There's plenty of genuine advantages Dublin have (population, Croke Park, sponsorship, everyone living in the county). But the games development funding has zero to do with Con and Mannion and Fenton and Jack being brilliant footballers.

Before the GAA started pumping the money in the Dubs won 43 Leinsters in 118 years
Since funding has been pumped in, they have won 15 out of 19
You can't explain that , Hound, unless you admit the truth

I was also involved in underage in my club and i never seen, met or heard of the GDO that was attached to the club, sure i know a couple of others from other clubs, its a dos, none of them work Mondays.

Also introduced during that period was the development system, the stucture of recentley enought past players taking teams out. Massive growth (Super clubs), Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin and some great players sons being part of it team the last decade. The introduction of coaching courses and workshops for parents, foundation level to level whatever.

As i said , a lot of advantages, like other elite teams, like Galway have over Leitrim or Cork should have over Kerry but dont.

[Rossfan]

Cork is a hurling County.