https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1027/1256297-barca-sack-koeman-after-defeat-to-rayo-vallecano/
FC Barcelona have fired tonight Ronald Koeman as the first team coach," the club said on Twitter.
Barcelona are ninth in La Liga on 15 points from 10 games, six points behind leaders Real Madrid who beat them 2-1 at the Camp Nou on Sunday.
They are third in their Champions League group with three points from three matches after suffering 3-0 defeats in their opening two games against Bayern Munich and Benfica.
Barcelona are five-times European champions and the results marked the first time in the club's history that they had failed to score in their opening two European games.
Teams have cycles. Their level of European success was modest pre Pep. They'll come again.
What an overreaction of a thread ;D
Should it not be the fall of Man Utd and Barcelona??
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on October 28, 2021, 01:57:30 PM
What an overreaction of a thread ;D
Yeah think the European Leagues thread couldve covered this one. For that reason.......im out 😃
La Liga -
Before Messi made debut - 16
Since Messi made debut - 10
European Cup
Before Messi made debut - 1
Since Messi made debut - 4
Barcelona haven't always been as super successful as people seem to think, there were stages in 80's & 90's they had brilliant teams but from 50's-80's they had relatively no success. From 1960-1990 they won two league titles but were cup specialists winning 8 Copa Del Rays & 3 Cup Winner Cups.
They have won 35 major trophies since Messi made his debut. The team they assembled at one point will still be talked about in 50 years times along with the greatest club sides of all time (Xavi, Iniesta, Pique etc) & Slightly before that (Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto'o) and even in the most recent years (Neymar & Suarez)
With their politics, money problems & internal issues I can't see them becoming a force for many more years. Their cycle is completely over. If they struggle to make the Champions League for a year or two it's hard to see when the cycle will take an upturn again. Busquets & Aguero are 34 next season, Jordi Alba is 33 next season, Pique is 35 in a couple of months. They bought Dembele & Coutinho for £240 million and would probably struggle to sell the pair of them for £50/60 million now. They were resigned to signing free agents in the summer (Garcia, Depay, Aguero etc) They took 31 year old striker Luuk De Jong on loan from Seville in the summer, Martin Braithwaite was signed for 16million 6 months after he left Middlesbrough - madness. Aguero, who is obviously quality signed in the summer & played his first game last week & made only 20 appearances last season due to injury.
Barcelona are walking a tight rope at the minute, it could all get very messy for them very soon.
This is a bit more than a cycle though, the club are in crazy debt hence Messi leaving and their inclination to try and sign has-beens on frees (Aguero, Wijnaldum, Depay etc.).
They can't sign big players and I don't know how they will even pay decent players given their wage cap was set at 97 million euro. As a comparator, Real Madrids was set at 700 million euro or thereabouts and Barcelona's was up around there prior to their troubles.
I still see ridiculous articles stating that Barcelona are going to spend over a billion on stadium upgrades, or that they are going to sign Haaland/Mbapppe etc, when none of these things will happen. Barcelona will flounder for a long time and will be lucky if they don't go into administration very soon.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 28, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
This is a bit more than a cycle though, the club are in crazy debt hence Messi leaving and their inclination to try and sign has-beens on frees (Aguero, Wijnaldum, Depay etc.).
Has-beens...what a ridiculous comment
They do have the youngsters Pedri and Gavi in midfield. Both only teenagers and accomplished full internationals for Spain. So it is not all doom and gloom.
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
On top of that, as has been mentioned in the Utd thread, elite managers are like hen's teeth and Barcelona don't tend to give a manager long to put his stamp on a team.
Theres strengthening while youre at the top and theres buying Dembele Coutinho and Griezeman for silly silly money and crazy wages to largely sit on the bench.
Good summary by Nrico there apart from the hasbeens bit
Quote from: gawa316 on October 28, 2021, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 28, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
This is a bit more than a cycle though, the club are in crazy debt hence Messi leaving and their inclination to try and sign has-beens on frees (Aguero, Wijnaldum, Depay etc.).
Has-beens...what a ridiculous comment
He's 31 next month so more than likely past his best.
Although he has never played for Barcelona in his life so i'm not sure why were talking about him lol
Financially they are in a very deep hole, but still a good team on paper. The stadium is just run down concrete but it could be patched up.
Quote from: toby47 on October 28, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on October 28, 2021, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 28, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
This is a bit more than a cycle though, the club are in crazy debt hence Messi leaving and their inclination to try and sign has-beens on frees (Aguero, Wijnaldum, Depay etc.).
Has-beens...what a ridiculous comment
He's 31 next month so more than likely past his best.
Although he has never played for Barcelona in his life so i'm not sure why were talking about him lol
He mentioned it because they were after him until PSG came in. He is 31 next month but I think the days of a players peak being 28/29 are done. He has a good 3 years left at the top imo.
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 28, 2021, 05:04:57 PM
They do have the youngsters Pedri and Gavi in midfield. Both only teenagers and accomplished full internationals for Spain. So it is not all doom and gloom.
Add Fati to that list as well.
Better teams than them fell away, Look at AC Milan.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 28, 2021, 07:20:40 PM
Better teams than them fell away, Look at AC Milan.
Debatable who was better AC Milan 1989 to 1995 or Barcelona 2008 to 2015. Right now both are a long way off those levels however at least Milan are top of the Serie A while Barcelona are 9th in mediocre La Liga.
https://frontofficesports.com/barcelona-1-57b-in-debt-looks-to-sell-media-stake/FC Barcelona is in $1.57 billion in debt, and is seeking to sell a $58.1 million stake in its media venture, Barca Studios.
Surely Gallsman can give us the inside track here
Quote from: gawa316 on October 28, 2021, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: toby47 on October 28, 2021, 05:20:17 PM
Quote from: gawa316 on October 28, 2021, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 28, 2021, 02:58:43 PM
This is a bit more than a cycle though, the club are in crazy debt hence Messi leaving and their inclination to try and sign has-beens on frees (Aguero, Wijnaldum, Depay etc.).
Has-beens...what a ridiculous comment
He's 31 next month so more than likely past his best.
Although he has never played for Barcelona in his life so i'm not sure why were talking about him lol
He mentioned it because they were after him until PSG came in. He is 31 next month but I think the days of a players peak being 28/29 are done. He has a good 3 years left at the top imo.
My point was that Barcelona are now looking for players:
- in their 30s or
- who are past their best or
- who are available for free or very cheap, or
- who aren't top players.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 28, 2021, 11:49:37 PM
Surely Gallsman can give us the inside track here
I don't work for them or anything! Everything easily read in English language media
Pretty much as has been said, scandalous mismanagement overpaying transfer fees and wages, and in doing so completely wasted the prime of Messi's career. The story of how they ended up paying so much for Dembélé (who still had so much potential but it's constantly injured, perhaps from lack of effort) tells you all you need to know. Coutinho was bought to have a Brazilian in the team after Neymar left, even though they could never accommodate him, Messi and Suarez from a defensive perspective. Accounting tricks to swap one of the best young midfielders in Europe in Arthur for an aging, unnecessary Pjanic. Complete nonsense.
As has been said though, they have somehow managed to gather some of the best young talents in Europe all over again. Pedri was in the team of the tournament at the Euros, Gavi started the Nations League final and Ansu Fati looked like a superstar a year ago before his injury. The problem will be keeping them. They already lost Ilaix to Leipzig.
The Camp Nou is a tired, crumbling shitshow of a stadium. They're gonna have to do something creative (cough cough more oil money) to survive but they'll be in the wilderness from the European elite perspective for years to come. Koeman had to go as they still have a squad that should be comfortable managing at least 4th but they've left themselves a ton of work.
Basically they don't have a moneybags owner as PSG, Man City and Chelsea do.
In order to keep up with escalating prices they had to borrow money.
This is a losing game.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2021, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
On top of that, as has been mentioned in the Utd thread, elite managers are like hen's teeth and Barcelona don't tend to give a manager long to put his stamp on a team.
They appointed a manager who hadn't a clue what he was doing at Everton
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 29, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2021, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
On top of that, as has been mentioned in the Utd thread, elite managers are like hen's teeth and Barcelona don't tend to give a manager long to put his stamp on a team.
They appointed a manager who hadn't a clue what he was doing at Everton
Completely....imagine putting red baubles on your Christmas tree....
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 30, 2021, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 29, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2021, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
On top of that, as has been mentioned in the Utd thread, elite managers are like hen's teeth and Barcelona don't tend to give a manager long to put his stamp on a team.
They appointed a manager who hadn't a clue what he was doing at Everton
Completely....imagine putting red baubles on your Christmas tree....
He bought 4 players to play #10
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 30, 2021, 10:58:54 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on October 29, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2021, 05:14:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 05:10:48 PM
1. Too much debt
2. Covid lockdowns hammered them
3. They didn't get the European Super League and they needed it.
This is a crisis
On top of that, as has been mentioned in the Utd thread, elite managers are like hen's teeth and Barcelona don't tend to give a manager long to put his stamp on a team.
They appointed a manager who hadn't a clue what he was doing at Everton
Completely....imagine putting red baubles on your Christmas tree....
;D
Could this be the end of Sergio Aguero's playing days?
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/sergio-aguero-diagnosed-cardiac-arrhythmia-hospital-tests-239478
This whole clamour for Xavi is mad too. Given the state they are in, you would imagine someone with a bit of sense would advise them to get a top quality manager who has proven credentials. Xavi has done or shown nothing to suggest he will do any better than the previous failures.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 04, 2021, 09:15:59 AM
This whole clamour for Xavi is mad too. Given the state they are in, you would imagine someone with a bit of sense would advise them to get a top quality manager who has proven credentials. Xavi has done or shown nothing to suggest he will do any better than the previous failures.
Like who?
Quote from: Rossie11 on November 04, 2021, 10:15:14 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 04, 2021, 09:15:59 AM
This whole clamour for Xavi is mad too. Given the state they are in, you would imagine someone with a bit of sense would advise them to get a top quality manager who has proven credentials. Xavi has done or shown nothing to suggest he will do any better than the previous failures.
Like who?
That's it, they have become a bit of a basket club these days and I'm not sure anyone will be breaking the door down to manage them. It is likely it will be a former great who feels loyalty to them, a Xavi or the likes. Start a rebuild process which wa a always gonna have to happen post Messi
Quote from: Rossie11 on November 04, 2021, 10:15:14 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 04, 2021, 09:15:59 AM
This whole clamour for Xavi is mad too. Given the state they are in, you would imagine someone with a bit of sense would advise them to get a top quality manager who has proven credentials. Xavi has done or shown nothing to suggest he will do any better than the previous failures.
Like who?
Who do you want me to name? Point is, there are lots of managers out there who have more pedigree than Xavi. For some reason they expect Xavi to fix everything, when they should really go for someone tried and tested at such a critical time.
They are bringing in Xavi as he's a club legend and cheaper option. They don't have the funds to pay someone like Conte 20 million a year like Spurs.
You'd have to worry about the state of a club that hired Ronald Koeman to manage them.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 04, 2021, 06:22:44 PM
You'd have to worry about the state of a club that hired Ronald Koeman to manage them.
Barcelona have the tradition of appointing ex players as managers. Xavi the latest it seems.
Playing a certain style of football is almost more important than winning at Barcelona, thus there hasn't been an Italian manager there in over 50years.
You could say Koeman had more pedigree than Xavi having won titles in Holland but he was always going to be a disaster.
The job is too big a role for most managers in the world, Pep and Enrique both got burnt out in the end despite the successes
Xavi (if he gets the job) is not expected to fix everything. Far from it. But he will be given time to improve things as he will be seen as doing the right things by the club for the
long term future rather than an outsider who will be expected to fix things quickly which is currently impossible.
Its going to be a slow build and Xavi will focus more on the Masia and developing the young talent they have, he will get the team playing the Barca way and get the fans back in the stadium
If he can do that it should be classed as a success as they are in a terrible spot at the moment
If Madrid tried to hatch a plan to destroy Barca they could not have done as good a job as Rosell and Bartomeu have done the last 10 years
Reports are suggesting Aguero might have to retire.
Resigning Dani Alves too.
Bringin the band back together 😃
Thiago linked too.
Tough luck on Aguero for the club and him obvs
In the Europa now
I do hate saying "I told you so" but I told you so (apart from the bit about La Liga being a duopoly, it's not even that now).
La Liga and all the other major continental European leagues are fucked.
The Premier League is the only game in town.
Quote from: sid waddell on April 26, 2018, 12:23:41 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 25, 2018, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2018, 10:43:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2018, 09:39:36 PM
If Real go through then you'd wonder have they enough hunger to win another?
It looks like Real are in Fergie/Cody time.
Which would mean we don't see them again for a good while after this year or next year
Which wouldn't be unbearable
You're off your rocker if you think Real fûcking Madrid won't be there or thereabouts every year.
Empires can quickly come to an end.
Where are AC Milan now? What happened to Serie A's empire?
England has already hoovered up Europe's best coaches.
When Messi and Ronaldo go, and that's not far away, it mightn't be long until the world's best players all decide to make England their destination of choice rather than Spain.
England already has six clubs who are world brands and mostly 50k plus stadiums filled every week. In a few years' time that will be seven or eight clubs with 60k plus stadiums filled every week.
La Liga will continue to be a duopoly.
Quote from: sid waddell on April 26, 2018, 12:52:47 AM
Real Madrid didn't win a European Cup between 1966 and 1998 and reached one final in those 32 years.
It took them another 12 years to get back to a final after 2002. They tend to make hay when they're good but more often than not they haven't been that great at European level and Spain's production line of players could easily dry up. It's not even a decade since Liverpool completely demolished them over two legs in the last 16 of the Champions League. Dortmund were demolishing them more recently than that again.
Serie A hoovered up the world's best players for over 20 years and AC Milan hoovered up the world's best players for over a decade. Not anymore.
Things don't stay still forever and the dominance they and Barcelona have enjoyed at European level is likely to end sooner rather than later - Barcelona's period at the top of European football already looks over.
Quote from: sid waddell on April 26, 2018, 01:08:28 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on April 26, 2018, 12:40:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 26, 2018, 12:23:41 AM
Quote from: Syferus on April 25, 2018, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 25, 2018, 10:43:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2018, 09:39:36 PM
If Real go through then you'd wonder have they enough hunger to win another?
It looks like Real are in Fergie/Cody time.
Which would mean we don't see them again for a good while after this year or next year
Which wouldn't be unbearable
You're off your rocker if you think Real fûcking Madrid won't be there or thereabouts every year.
Empires can quickly come to an end.
Where are AC Milan now? What happened to Serie A's empire?
Serie A went bankrupt FFS. That's hardly going to happen to Real.
The decline of Serie A should be a warning to La Liga as to what can happen. The Premier League in general is a much more attractive product than La Liga, which is almost totally about the Madrid-Barcelona rivalry, and since 2009 about the Messi-Ronaldo rivalry. It also happened to coincide with Spain having their greatest ever team at international level, with Xavi, Iniesta, Pique and Busquets being on the opposite side to Ramos, Casillas, Alonso etc in derbies.
Serie A had the Maradona v Gullit/Van Basten/Rijkaard v Matthaus/Klinsmann/Brehme narrative in the late 80s and early 90s which made it compelling. The other backdrop was Italy having a brilliant national team at the time with players like Baresi, Maldini, Baggio and Vialli, and hosting the World Cup. Once that narrative went, it wasn't as attractive.
The Messi v Ronaldo rivalry will soon be gone and the 2010 Spain players are either gone or near the end. The compelling nature of the Barcelona v Madrid rivalry is likely to decline with it, at least as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
Barca generate more revenue then any PL clubs, the issue is they've wasted it even more-so then United which takes some doing.
They'll be back but its going to take a bit longer then they'd hoped.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on December 09, 2021, 02:15:29 PM
Barca generate more revenue then any PL clubs, the issue is they've wasted it even more-so then United which takes some doing.
They'll be back but its going to take a bit longer then they'd hoped.
Financially they are in turmoil though. Not a straightforward road back.
Barcelona have agreed a deal that could total £55m with Manchester City to sign Ferran Torres.
The Spanish side will pay an initial £46.7m (€55m) plus a further £8.5m (€10m) in add-ons. Some £5.9m (€7m) of those add-ons are said to be more or less guaranteed.
It means City will have made at least £27m (€32m) on a player they paid Valencia around £20m (€23m) for in 2020.
They have not paid any of the agreed add-ons to Valencia due to the limited time he has spent at the Etihad.
Barcelona regard Torres as one of Spain's rising talents and have money to spend in January after recently receiving sizeable investment via a bank loan.
How the feck are Barca getting a loan...