Bit of a tsunami underway now. Women starting to speak up and a lot of high profile people are getting implicated.
Louis CK and Steven "every film I make is a great big self-indulgent w***-fest about how tough I am" Seagal were hitting the headlines this morning.
I see now that Sepp Blatter has been accused by Hope Solo. Every day seems to be a case of "which high profile celebrity is going to be de-throned today"?
Hope fecking Solo. She'd break your nose.
Louis CK's press release was different
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/nov/10/louis-ck-statement-sexual-misconduct-allegations-these-stories-are-true
"These stories are true," he says. "At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question. It's a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me.
"And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I've tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I'm aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position."
The comedian, whose stand-up special with Netflix was dropped and new film I Love You Daddy is no longer being promoted, added: "I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn't want to hear it. I didn't think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it.
"There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with".
The statement continues: "I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.
"The hardest regret to live with is what you've done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I'd be remiss to exclude the hurt that I've brought on people who I work with and have worked with who's professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/10/us/100000005547526.mobile.html
RESPONSE"Each of the women who have come forward used grains of truth to sell false narrative." »
RESPONSE"We are heartbroken and confounded by deliberate and cruel defamations," said his family in a statement. »
RESPONSE Many of his professional interactions with subjects were sexual and explicit in nature but all of the subjects of his work participated consensually," a spokeswoman said.
RESPONSE For my offenses against some of my colleagues in the past I offer a shaken apology and ask for their forgiveness." »
RESPONSE I fully recognize that I have tested certain boundaries, which I am working hard to correct." »
RESPONSE"I am very disturbed by these anonymous allegations, which make my heart ache. I take them very seriously." »
According to Sean Hannity and his guest the other evening, actual real assaults are"few and far between". This from the man and network who had wall to wall Harvey Weinstein a few weeks back (same week O'Reilly's 30+ million settlement came out). But when control of the US Senate is in play and a GOP candidate on the dock, character assasination of victims is the most important thing to get out there.
Darling of darlings George Takei has now been accused of assaulting a 23 year old many years ago, drugged him no less and groped his willy according to the alleged victim, you gotta love hollywood people!
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
Yep
If it's on fb it's the truth!
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
A lot of them have admitted to what is alleged.
And the likes of Weinstein (and, arguably, Moore), how many people does it take before it is taken seriously?
The floodgates have opened, just like they did with the priests. Of course it is possible that some might be unfairly accused. But how are you going to prevent that in this day and age? I guess you can try to intimidate with threatened law suits, like Trump did (although he, strangely for such an accomplished litigant, never followed through).
Trump has faced down allegations. Bill Clinton has. It seems Roy Moore is going to try to.
With others, it appears that whatever people around them on the ground actually knew, they'd little choice but to resign or back down or whatever.
But I don't see much in the way of legal penalties or convictions coming the way of most of these people.
Not sure what the alternative is though to the way it is currently going down. A lot of people have evidently decided they won't be intimidated into maintaining silence any more.
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
Yep
Err, many of these are multiple accusations - very hard to manufacture.
I don't think either you have much underastanding of how difficult it is to bring an allegation of sexual assault against a public figure. In most if not all of these cases it's very obvious what is being claimed did indeed happen - these people have much more to lose than to gain from a false claim. You seriously think there's a big money racket in claiming Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted you? Cop on ffs.
Believe victims, not your own prejudices.
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2017, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
Yep
Err, many of these are multiple accusations - very hard to manufacture.
I don't think either you have much conception of how difficult it is to bring an allegation of sexual assault against a public figure. In most if not all of these cases it's very obvious what is being claimed did indeed happen - these people have much more to lose than to gain from a false claim. You seriously think there's a big money racket in claiming Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted you? Cop on ffs.
Believe victims, not your own prejudices.
So if 8 posters on here claimed you raped them and put it on Facebook that be true?
I'm not saying these sex allegations aren't by the way
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2017, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2017, 03:18:14 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
As i said before, a lot of people being convicted by the media. It seems an accusation is enough; no evidence required.
Yep
Err, many of these are multiple accusations - very hard to manufacture.
I don't think either you have much conception of how difficult it is to bring an allegation of sexual assault against a public figure. In most if not all of these cases it's very obvious what is being claimed did indeed happen - these people have much more to lose than to gain from a false claim. You seriously think there's a big money racket in claiming Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted you? Cop on ffs.
Believe victims, not your own prejudices.
So if 8 posters on here claimed you raped them and put it on Facebook that be true?
I'm not saying these sex allegations aren't by the way
If it was eight people I was known to have met and had little or no ties to each other then, yes, it would be pretty damn clear something happened.
You've created an absurdist straw-man where eight disparate people have colluded to falsely claim sexual assault. Do you not get what a black mark on a woman (let alone a man) it is to come out and go public with such a horrible story? The victim blaming they know they will get from the mob and the vested interests? You are categorically looking at this issue from the wrong position.
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
Do you genuinely think that it's that simple? Man.
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2017, 04:38:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
Do you genuinely think that it's that simple? Man.
The more people say it, it will make it easier for the rest..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Syferus on November 11, 2017, 04:38:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
Do you genuinely think that it's that simple? Man.
The more people say it, it will make it easier for the rest..
Except we live in a society where people in power abuse that power and use it to cover up this sort of shít or, failing that, hide behind lawyers. If you worked in the movie industry and the most powerful producer in Hollywood grabbed your arse or barged into your hotel room you might have a better understanding of how going public is never a clean or easy choice.
Times seem to finally be changing but your attitude and ignorance of the nuances involved here are very much part of the problem that needs to be overcome, if I'm being honest.
Charlie Rose now! :o
The ultimate, interesting, classy, professional interviewer on screen, lewd sc**bag off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/eight-women-say-charlie-rose-sexually-harassed-them--with-nudity-groping-and-lewd-calls/2017/11/20/9b168de8-caec-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html?utm_term=.f44686d66b27 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/eight-women-say-charlie-rose-sexually-harassed-them--with-nudity-groping-and-lewd-calls/2017/11/20/9b168de8-caec-11e7-8321-481fd63f174d_story.html?utm_term=.f44686d66b27)
I heard Sylvester Stallone's name mentioned the other night.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 21, 2017, 12:40:59 AM
I heard Sylvester Stallone's name mentioned the other night.
In that case - GUILTY
Quote from: Minder on November 21, 2017, 08:53:14 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 21, 2017, 12:40:59 AM
I heard Sylvester Stallone's name mentioned the other night.
In that case - GUILTY
was all over FB, so must be true
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Quote from: HiMucker on November 21, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Is that not what they are doing now? how many rape cases now compared to 20 years ago? people are going to the police and they are being followed up on and charged.. the stigma it seems based on whats happening now show that it is not the major concern..
Rape victims felt in the past that nothing would come of it and felt that there was no point going to police or they actually felt embarrassed and shamed by it all and said nothing... so my post is simple.. you would come out and say it to the police and have them charged.. no?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 21, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Is that not what they are doing now? how many rape cases now compared to 20 years ago? people are going to the police and they are being followed up on and charged.. the stigma it seems based on whats happening now show that it is not the major concern..
Rape victims felt in the past that nothing would come of it and felt that there was no point going to police or they actually felt embarrassed and shamed by it all and said nothing... so my post is simple.. you would come out and say it to the police and have them charged.. no?
Incredibly simplistic view.
As has been seen to happen in many rape cases, interpretation of consent can vary and often a victim is tarnished with "well she's notorious for sleeping about so it couldn't have been rape".
The Ched Evans case is one high profile example of when a victim alleged she was raped and the Evans family went to town on her in a PR exercise and ruined her life, so how would that encourage other who have been raped to come forward?
Quote from: Mike Tyson on November 21, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 21, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Is that not what they are doing now? how many rape cases now compared to 20 years ago? people are going to the police and they are being followed up on and charged.. the stigma it seems based on whats happening now show that it is not the major concern..
Rape victims felt in the past that nothing would come of it and felt that there was no point going to police or they actually felt embarrassed and shamed by it all and said nothing... so my post is simple.. you would come out and say it to the police and have them charged.. no?
Incredibly simplistic view.
As has been seen to happen in many rape cases, interpretation of consent can vary and often a victim is tarnished with "well she's notorious for sleeping about so it couldn't have been rape".
The Ched Evans case is one high profile example of when a victim alleged she was raped and the Evans family went to town on her in a PR exercise and ruined her life, so how would that encourage other who have been raped to come forward?
Was she a victim though?
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 21, 2017, 01:27:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on November 21, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 21, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Is that not what they are doing now? how many rape cases now compared to 20 years ago? people are going to the police and they are being followed up on and charged.. the stigma it seems based on whats happening now show that it is not the major concern..
Rape victims felt in the past that nothing would come of it and felt that there was no point going to police or they actually felt embarrassed and shamed by it all and said nothing... so my post is simple.. you would come out and say it to the police and have them charged.. no?
Incredibly simplistic view.
As has been seen to happen in many rape cases, interpretation of consent can vary and often a victim is tarnished with "well she's notorious for sleeping about so it couldn't have been rape".
The Ched Evans case is one high profile example of when a victim alleged she was raped and the Evans family went to town on her in a PR exercise and ruined her life, so how would that encourage other who have been raped to come forward?
Was she a victim though?
Victim probably the wrong word in this case in regards to the rape. In the eyes of the law she was not a victim of rape.
Quote from: Mike Tyson on November 21, 2017, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 21, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
If you were raped you'd come out and say it and have that person charged? Would you worry about how other people would think
That really is an incredibly stupid thing to come out with
Is that not what they are doing now? how many rape cases now compared to 20 years ago? people are going to the police and they are being followed up on and charged.. the stigma it seems based on whats happening now show that it is not the major concern..
Rape victims felt in the past that nothing would come of it and felt that there was no point going to police or they actually felt embarrassed and shamed by it all and said nothing... so my post is simple.. you would come out and say it to the police and have them charged.. no?
Incredibly simplistic view.
As has been seen to happen in many rape cases, interpretation of consent can vary and often a victim is tarnished with "well she's notorious for sleeping about so it couldn't have been rape".
The Ched Evans case is one high profile example of when a victim alleged she was raped and the Evans family went to town on her in a PR exercise and ruined her life, so how would that encourage other who have been raped to come forward?
I'm sure its a case by case thing.... Ive already mentioned more people are being heard than before, the more that come out the more people will get charged.. the Chad Evans case is not the norm and you know that, they are the exception, I'd say there are more people raped by non celeberties than celebs, in which case they have less money to have a PR campaign.
So its down to the person thats been raped to do something about it, must be a horrible experience to go through, not to mention the medical examination and questioning by police afterwards and then the court case where your every word is used against you.. but thats the law, its there to protect everyone ... simplistic view? yes but i know a lady that was raped and there was nothing simplistic in her experience and continued trauma afterwards... the more rape victims say nothing the more peolle will think its ok to do it as they will get off with it
Matt Lauer from the NBC Today show
Garrison Keillor from NPR's Prairie Home Companion show
They're coming thick and fast now.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 29, 2017, 05:57:27 PM
Matt Lauer from the NBC Today show
Garrison Keillor from NPR's Prairie Home Companion show
They're coming thick and fast now.
Garrison Keillor??? So it wasnt a quiet week in Lake Wobegon his home on the prairie
Where all the men are strong, all the women are good looking, and all the children are above average.
Dustin Hoffman
Did the psni not send a reminder out the other day reminding us all that an unwanted kiss under the mistletoe is rape?
I hope this was a spoof! I dont think even they could be that stupid!
Quote from: stew on December 05, 2017, 10:43:57 PM
Did the psni not send a reminder out the other day reminding us all that an unwanted kiss under the mistletoe is rape?
I hope this was a spoof! I dont think even they could be that stupid!
No. They said:
Are you gearing up for a festive night out? We want you all to have a good night but please be mindful of your personal safety.
If you are drinking, drink in moderation and if you meet that special someone tonight under the mistletoe remember that sex without consent is a crime.
Gay Byrne? I blame Gay.
He groped women in a lecherous manner, on camera live on the late late show. He made it seem par for the course, he was an RTE/Irish thermidor.
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Again, probably no evidence either.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 09, 2018, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Again, probably no evidence either.
What's the basis for your probability?
3 witnesses is good evidence.
One witness statement might be weak but 3 witness statements are certainly not weak.
ABC news report (http://"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-08/craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-sexual-harassment/9304452") Two of them made complaints at the time to management. There is proof that they complained at the time "emails, texts, doctor's referral" "other members of the cast and band can confirm all this"
The investigation is very thorough by both ABC and Sidney Morning Herald (http://"http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/hes-calculated-and-manipulative-a-predator-craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-20180107-h0enst.html")
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2018, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 09, 2018, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Again, probably no evidence either.
What's the basis for your probability?
3 witnesses is good evidence.
One witness statement might be weak but 3 witness statements are certainly not weak.
ABC news report (http://"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-08/craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-sexual-harassment/9304452") Two of them made complaints at the time to management. There is proof that they complained at the time "emails, texts, doctor's referral" "other members of the cast and band can confirm all this"
The investigation is very thorough by both ABC and Sidney Morning Herald (http://"http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/hes-calculated-and-manipulative-a-predator-craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-20180107-h0enst.html")
So with all that evidence and statements and doctor referrals how did he get away with it? strange system
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2018, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2018, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 09, 2018, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Again, probably no evidence either.
What's the basis for your probability?
3 witnesses is good evidence.
One witness statement might be weak but 3 witness statements are certainly not weak.
ABC news report (http://"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-08/craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-sexual-harassment/9304452") Two of them made complaints at the time to management. There is proof that they complained at the time "emails, texts, doctor's referral" "other members of the cast and band can confirm all this"
The investigation is very thorough by both ABC and Sidney Morning Herald (http://"http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/hes-calculated-and-manipulative-a-predator-craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-20180107-h0enst.html")
So with all that evidence and statements and doctor referrals how did he get away with it? strange system
All that evidence was only pieced together in December when the 3 women made their complaint official, going to their union, lawyers and then police. You would have to read the newspaper accounts to have an idea how he managed to get way with that behavior before that time.
France's most revered actress, Catherine Deneuve, hit out Tuesday at a new "puritanism" sparked by sexual harassment scandals, declaring that men should be "free to hit on" women.
She was one of around 100 French women writers, performers and academics who wrote an open letter deploring the wave of "denunciations" that has followed claims that Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulted and harassed women over decades.
They called it a "witch-hunt" that they feel threatens sexual freedom.
"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not -- nor is being gentlemanly a macho attack," said the letter published in the daily Le Monde.
"Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss," said the letter, which was also signed by Catherine Millet, author of the hugely explicit 2002 memoir, "The Sexual Life of Catherine M.".
Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued, for "talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners or for sending sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their attentions."
'#MeToo witch-hunt'
The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like #MeToo and its French equivalent #Balancetonporc (Call out your pig) for unleashing this "puritanical... wave of purification".
It claimed that "legitimate and necessary protest against the sexual violence that women are subject to, particularly in their professional lives", had turned into a witch-hunt.
"What began as freeing women up to speak has today turned into the opposite -- we intimidate people into speaking 'correctly', shout down those who don't fall into line, and those women who refused to bend" to the new realities "are regarded as complicit and traitors."
It also helped foster "this Victorian idea that women were mere children who had to be protected," the letter argued.
Some women who were strong enough to demand equal pay, it claimed, would "not be traumatised forever by a fondler on the metro", even if it is a crime, preferring to see it as a "non-event".
The signatories -- which included a porn star-turned-agony aunt -- claimed they were defending sexual freedom, for which "the liberty to seduce and importune was essential."
Oscar-nominated Deneuve, 74, is best known internationally for playing a bored housewife who spends her afternoons as a prostitute in Luis Bunuel classic 1967 film "Belle de Jour".
Deneuve has made no secret of her annoyance at social media campaigns to shame men accused of harassing women.
"I don't think it is the right method to change things, it is excessive," she said last year, referring to the #MeToo hashtag. "After 'Calling out your pig' what are we going to have, 'Call out your whore?'" she said.
"Instead of helping women, this frenzy to send these (male chauvinist) 'pigs' to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty -- religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries," the collective of women who signed the letter said.
"As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality."
They insisted that women were "sufficiently aware that the sexual urge is by its nature wild and aggressive. But we are also clear-eyed enough not to confuse an awkward attempt to pick someone up with a sexual attack."
The spectacle of men being forced into "public confessions... and having to rack their brains and apologise for 'inappropriate behaviour' that might have happened 10, 20 or 30 years before... recalled totalitarian societies," the letter went on.
This "puritan wave" was already bringing censorship in its wake, the women insisted, claiming that some of them had already been asked to make the male characters in their writing "less sexist", and told to tone down certain scenes to "better show the trauma suffered by female characters".
Deneuve sparked an outcry last March for her fulsome support of French-based director Roman Polanski, who is still wanted in the United States for the statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl in 1977.
While his victim Samantha Geimer wants the case dropped so she can get on with her life, Deneuve told French television that "she always found the word 'rape' excessive" in the circumstances.
The French broadcasting watchdog later called her comments "retrograde".
Quote from: Declan on January 09, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
France's most revered actress, Catherine Deneuve, hit out Tuesday at a new "puritanism" sparked by sexual harassment scandals, declaring that men should be "free to hit on" women.
She was one of around 100 French women writers, performers and academics who wrote an open letter deploring the wave of "denunciations" that has followed claims that Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulted and harassed women over decades.
They called it a "witch-hunt" that they feel threatens sexual freedom.
"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not -- nor is being gentlemanly a macho attack," said the letter published in the daily Le Monde.
"Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss," said the letter, which was also signed by Catherine Millet, author of the hugely explicit 2002 memoir, "The Sexual Life of Catherine M.".
Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued, for "talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners or for sending sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their attentions."
'#MeToo witch-hunt'
The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like #MeToo and its French equivalent #Balancetonporc (Call out your pig) for unleashing this "puritanical... wave of purification".
It claimed that "legitimate and necessary protest against the sexual violence that women are subject to, particularly in their professional lives", had turned into a witch-hunt.
"What began as freeing women up to speak has today turned into the opposite -- we intimidate people into speaking 'correctly', shout down those who don't fall into line, and those women who refused to bend" to the new realities "are regarded as complicit and traitors."
It also helped foster "this Victorian idea that women were mere children who had to be protected," the letter argued.
Some women who were strong enough to demand equal pay, it claimed, would "not be traumatised forever by a fondler on the metro", even if it is a crime, preferring to see it as a "non-event".
The signatories -- which included a porn star-turned-agony aunt -- claimed they were defending sexual freedom, for which "the liberty to seduce and importune was essential."
Oscar-nominated Deneuve, 74, is best known internationally for playing a bored housewife who spends her afternoons as a prostitute in Luis Bunuel classic 1967 film "Belle de Jour".
Deneuve has made no secret of her annoyance at social media campaigns to shame men accused of harassing women.
"I don't think it is the right method to change things, it is excessive," she said last year, referring to the #MeToo hashtag. "After 'Calling out your pig' what are we going to have, 'Call out your whore?'" she said.
"Instead of helping women, this frenzy to send these (male chauvinist) 'pigs' to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty -- religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries," the collective of women who signed the letter said.
"As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality."
They insisted that women were "sufficiently aware that the sexual urge is by its nature wild and aggressive. But we are also clear-eyed enough not to confuse an awkward attempt to pick someone up with a sexual attack."
The spectacle of men being forced into "public confessions... and having to rack their brains and apologise for 'inappropriate behaviour' that might have happened 10, 20 or 30 years before... recalled totalitarian societies," the letter went on.
This "puritan wave" was already bringing censorship in its wake, the women insisted, claiming that some of them had already been asked to make the male characters in their writing "less sexist", and told to tone down certain scenes to "better show the trauma suffered by female characters".
Deneuve sparked an outcry last March for her fulsome support of French-based director Roman Polanski, who is still wanted in the United States for the statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl in 1977.
While his victim Samantha Geimer wants the case dropped so she can get on with her life, Deneuve told French television that "she always found the word 'rape' excessive" in the circumstances.
The French broadcasting watchdog later called her comments "retrograde".
Interesting. I wonder if my awkward teenage attempts to woo the opposite sex would count as "harassment' by the modern standard.
She has some valid points but her own positions on topics like her mate Roman undercut her credibility significantly.
Not as much as Ivanka Trump retweeting Oprah's speech at the Golden Globes, though..
Catherine's argument is simple minded and doesn't address a definition of what are acts of sexual harassment, abuse of position or sexual assault.
She should be able to discriminate between a male's persistent attempt to seduce (even crudely) and the sexual harassment of a woman, to tell difference between a male groping a woman's vagina (or other body parts), and a male on bendeth knee offering flowers, chocolates or a beer with a proposition in mind, spoken or unspoken.
The important thing is that facts are thoroughly checked before a person is outed and accused.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 09, 2018, 05:34:06 PM
Quote from: Declan on January 09, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
France's most revered actress, Catherine Deneuve, hit out Tuesday at a new "puritanism" sparked by sexual harassment scandals, declaring that men should be "free to hit on" women.
She was one of around 100 French women writers, performers and academics who wrote an open letter deploring the wave of "denunciations" that has followed claims that Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein sexually assaulted and harassed women over decades.
They called it a "witch-hunt" that they feel threatens sexual freedom.
"Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not -- nor is being gentlemanly a macho attack," said the letter published in the daily Le Monde.
"Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss," said the letter, which was also signed by Catherine Millet, author of the hugely explicit 2002 memoir, "The Sexual Life of Catherine M.".
Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued, for "talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners or for sending sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their attentions."
'#MeToo witch-hunt'
The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like #MeToo and its French equivalent #Balancetonporc (Call out your pig) for unleashing this "puritanical... wave of purification".
It claimed that "legitimate and necessary protest against the sexual violence that women are subject to, particularly in their professional lives", had turned into a witch-hunt.
"What began as freeing women up to speak has today turned into the opposite -- we intimidate people into speaking 'correctly', shout down those who don't fall into line, and those women who refused to bend" to the new realities "are regarded as complicit and traitors."
It also helped foster "this Victorian idea that women were mere children who had to be protected," the letter argued.
Some women who were strong enough to demand equal pay, it claimed, would "not be traumatised forever by a fondler on the metro", even if it is a crime, preferring to see it as a "non-event".
The signatories -- which included a porn star-turned-agony aunt -- claimed they were defending sexual freedom, for which "the liberty to seduce and importune was essential."
Oscar-nominated Deneuve, 74, is best known internationally for playing a bored housewife who spends her afternoons as a prostitute in Luis Bunuel classic 1967 film "Belle de Jour".
Deneuve has made no secret of her annoyance at social media campaigns to shame men accused of harassing women.
"I don't think it is the right method to change things, it is excessive," she said last year, referring to the #MeToo hashtag. "After 'Calling out your pig' what are we going to have, 'Call out your whore?'" she said.
"Instead of helping women, this frenzy to send these (male chauvinist) 'pigs' to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty -- religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries," the collective of women who signed the letter said.
"As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality."
They insisted that women were "sufficiently aware that the sexual urge is by its nature wild and aggressive. But we are also clear-eyed enough not to confuse an awkward attempt to pick someone up with a sexual attack."
The spectacle of men being forced into "public confessions... and having to rack their brains and apologise for 'inappropriate behaviour' that might have happened 10, 20 or 30 years before... recalled totalitarian societies," the letter went on.
This "puritan wave" was already bringing censorship in its wake, the women insisted, claiming that some of them had already been asked to make the male characters in their writing "less sexist", and told to tone down certain scenes to "better show the trauma suffered by female characters".
Deneuve sparked an outcry last March for her fulsome support of French-based director Roman Polanski, who is still wanted in the United States for the statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl in 1977.
While his victim Samantha Geimer wants the case dropped so she can get on with her life, Deneuve told French television that "she always found the word 'rape' excessive" in the circumstances.
The French broadcasting watchdog later called her comments "retrograde".
Interesting. I wonder if my awkward teenage attempts to woo the opposite sex would count as "harassment' by the modern standard.
Probably but sure that does not mean you did anything wrong, modern standards are fucked up thanks to political correctness gone wild.
Oprah is the new darling of the left and boys a boys do they want her as the next President of the United States, the liberal artsy fartsy crowd salivated over her at an awards ceremony and boy did they congratulate themselves because they are fighting the good fight against the Weinsteins of the world and his ilk, arent they great the bastards!
Oprah had a horrendous time as a young woman, God Bless her she went through hell and back and yet she endured and became one of the richest, most respected Americans in the world today, if she does run I hope it is for the right reasons and not just because she is rich, black and a woman, the liberal Holy Trinity for a presidential candidate.
If she does run I hope she does not have to relive her past but given the hatred between left and right in the States I fear she will have old wounds reopened, and she will be asked by Trump about her friendship with Weinstein, that will probably be her biggest issue.
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
she is rich, black and a woman, the liberal Holy Trinity for a presidential candidate.
Yes, quite...
(https://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/image/o-BERNIE-SANDERS-facebook.jpg)
Michael Douglas has the right idea. Come out early and flat out deny. I'm currently writing a 3 page essay apologising for the all the times I stepped over the line during my teenage years... I was quite a handsy kinda guy
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 12:49:12 AM
Michael Douglas has the right idea. Come out early and flat out deny. I'm currently writing a 3 page essay apologising for the all the times I stepped over the line during my teenage years... I was quite a handsy kinda guy
Michael was a sex addict, he admitted that years ago, so he should be helped, some of the producers missed a trick there...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2018, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 12:49:12 AM
Michael Douglas has the right idea. Come out early and flat out deny. I'm currently writing a 3 page essay apologising for the all the times I stepped over the line during my teenage years... I was quite a handsy kinda guy
Michael was a sex addict, he admitted that years ago, so he should be helped, some of the producers missed a trick there...
Latest accusation alleges, among other things, that he "spoke raunchily on the phone"
Quote from: Minder on January 11, 2018, 09:31:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2018, 09:11:53 AM
Quote from: Therealdonald on January 11, 2018, 12:49:12 AM
Michael Douglas has the right idea. Come out early and flat out deny. I'm currently writing a 3 page essay apologising for the all the times I stepped over the line during my teenage years... I was quite a handsy kinda guy
Michael was a sex addict, he admitted that years ago, so he should be helped, some of the producers missed a trick there...
Latest accusation alleges, among other things, that he "spoke raunchily on the phone"
Did he throw water over her titties?
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
Oprah is the new darling of the left and boys a boys do they want her as the next President of the United States, the liberal artsy fartsy crowd salivated over her at an awards ceremony and boy did they congratulate themselves because they are fighting the good fight against the Weinsteins of the world and his ilk, arent they great the b**tards!
Oprah had a horrendous time as a young woman, God Bless her she went through hell and back and yet she endured and became one of the richest, most respected Americans in the world today, if she does run I hope it is for the right reasons and not just because she is rich, black and a woman, the liberal Holy Trinity for a presidential candidate.
If she does run I hope she does not have to relive her past but given the hatred between left and right in the States I fear she will have old wounds reopened, and she will be asked by Trump about her friendship with Weinstein, that will probably be her biggest issue.
Why not just campaign for Maxine Waters for President?
She ticks all the boxes!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-YWaK8XcAArp4m.jpg)
and she's batshit crazy :D
Quote from: Main Street on January 09, 2018, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 09, 2018, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 08, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Craig McLachlan aka Henry Ramsey from Neighbours. Three women accusers, he's denying it.
Again, probably no evidence either.
What's the basis for your probability?
3 witnesses is good evidence.
One witness statement might be weak but 3 witness statements are certainly not weak.
ABC news report (http://"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-08/craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-sexual-harassment/9304452") Two of them made complaints at the time to management. There is proof that they complained at the time "emails, texts, doctor's referral" "other members of the cast and band can confirm all this"
The investigation is very thorough by both ABC and Sidney Morning Herald (http://"http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/hes-calculated-and-manipulative-a-predator-craig-mclachlan-accused-of-indecent-assault-20180107-h0enst.html")
Three witnesses to a crime would lead to a strong case, but three separate claims could be potentially false, other than one womans word against his denial there is no evidence. Id like to think if it was me on trial some evidence would be required other than an unfounded accusation
Next up is Steve Wynn of Las Vegas hotel fame.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 27, 2018, 01:37:53 AM
Next up is Steve Wynn of Las Vegas hotel fame.
His shares are taking a big hit and he had big projects in pipeline for Las Vegas that may have to be cancelled now.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2018, 12:45:16 AM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
she is rich, black and a woman, the liberal Holy Trinity for a presidential candidate.
Yes, quite...
(https://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/image/o-BERNIE-SANDERS-facebook.jpg)
Maybe that's why he didn't win the nomination. Hee only ticks one box. You need to tick at least two (a la Hillary)
Quote from: foxcommander on January 11, 2018, 01:54:41 PM
Quote from: stew on January 10, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
Oprah is the new darling of the left and boys a boys do they want her as the next President of the United States, the liberal artsy fartsy crowd salivated over her at an awards ceremony and boy did they congratulate themselves because they are fighting the good fight against the Weinsteins of the world and his ilk, arent they great the b**tards!
Oprah had a horrendous time as a young woman, God Bless her she went through hell and back and yet she endured and became one of the richest, most respected Americans in the world today, if she does run I hope it is for the right reasons and not just because she is rich, black and a woman, the liberal Holy Trinity for a presidential candidate.
If she does run I hope she does not have to relive her past but given the hatred between left and right in the States I fear she will have old wounds reopened, and she will be asked by Trump about her friendship with Weinstein, that will probably be her biggest issue.
Why not just campaign for Maxine Waters for President?
She ticks all the boxes!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-YWaK8XcAArp4m.jpg)
and she's batshit crazy :D
Maxine is batshit crazy, and that is why I hope she runs for the presidency and wins the democratic nomination, she is an absolute f**king nightmare, a charlatan and like all politicians from all sides a liar of biblical proportions, she should be in a rubber room the mad bitch!
:-X
Bill Cosby.