Latest Developments In Galway Hurling Saga Show How Bleak The Situation Is

Started by MoChara, November 12, 2015, 01:12:14 PM

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AZOffaly

Quote from: deiseach on November 30, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
I'm sceptical of the whole good farmland thing. The best farmland in the country would be in Meath and that's not renowned as a hurling hotbed, no disrespect to the likes of Seán Boylan. My own vague theory is that hurling excellence is a function of proximity to other hurling counties. Back in the days before widespread private transport it was more important to be able to play your neighbours on a regular basis. Tournament matches were a huge deal, with the winners getting 'a line of suit' each. Antrim is an obvious exception but there's proximity theory at work there - to Scotland. There's a PhD to be written on the subject. In fact, I'm suddenly aghast 15 years after the event that I didn't consider the Geographical implications for my undergraduate dissertation...

I think that's true to a certain extent, but what is the reason for those pockets? East Galway, South/West Offaly, North Tipperary, East Clare, East Limerick, could all be said to form one pocket. Kilkenny, Waterford, East Cork, South Tipp would be another large pocket. So if it is geographical proximity, what is the reason for the geographical centres in the first place?

North Kerry wouldn't border the Limerick hurling stronghold, put is obviously the hurling part of Kerry, and likewise the Ard Peninsula is out on its own.

deiseach

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 30, 2015, 11:36:24 AM
I think that's true to a certain extent, but what is the reason for those pockets? East Galway, South/West Offaly, North Tipperary, East Clare, East Limerick, could all be said to form one pocket. Kilkenny, Waterford, East Cork, South Tipp would be another large pocket. So if it is geographical proximity, what is the reason for the geographical centres in the first place?

North Kerry wouldn't border the Limerick hurling stronghold, put is obviously the hurling part of Kerry, and likewise the Ard Peninsula is out on its own.

That's what I'd like to know too. Waterford, as it happens, was a hurling wasteland when the association was set up. In an era when Kerry were winning the hurling All-Ireland and Waterford were reaching the All-Ireland football final, Waterford won one Championship match on the field of play between 1887 and 1924. Once the seeds were planted in the 1920's, winning the Minor All-Ireland in 1929 (where we beat Meath, of all teams), there's no doubt in my mind that proximity to the hurling strongholds helped.

seafoid

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 30, 2015, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 30, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
I'm sceptical of the whole good farmland thing. The best farmland in the country would be in Meath and that's not renowned as a hurling hotbed, no disrespect to the likes of Seán Boylan. My own vague theory is that hurling excellence is a function of proximity to other hurling counties. Back in the days before widespread private transport it was more important to be able to play your neighbours on a regular basis. Tournament matches were a huge deal, with the winners getting 'a line of suit' each. Antrim is an obvious exception but there's proximity theory at work there - to Scotland. There's a PhD to be written on the subject. In fact, I'm suddenly aghast 15 years after the event that I didn't consider the Geographical implications for my undergraduate dissertation...

I think that's true to a certain extent, but what is the reason for those pockets? East Galway, South/West Offaly, North Tipperary, East Clare, East Limerick, could all be said to form one pocket. Kilkenny, Waterford, East Cork, South Tipp would be another large pocket. So if it is geographical proximity, what is the reason for the geographical centres in the first place?

North Kerry wouldn't border the Limerick hurling stronghold, put is obviously the hurling part of Kerry, and likewise the Ard Peninsula is out on its own.
http://irisharchaeology.ie/2011/09/hurling-its-ancient-history/

"Hurling continues to feature in Later Medieval Gaelic Irish and English sources, with the latter generally disapproving. It is hard to believe it now but in the 14th century that bastion of the modern game, Killkenny, attempted to ban hurling. This occurred in 1367 when the infamous Statutes of Kilkenny declared 'do not, henceforth, use the plays which men call horlings, with great sticks and a ball upon the ground, from which great evils and maims have arisen'. Despite threats of fines and imprisonment, this law failed miserably and the black-and-amber-clad men of Kilkenny would become one of hurling's powerhouses.  Similar measures to curtail hurling were also undertaken in Galway. These statutes, which were enacted in 1527, stated that people should 'At no time to use ne occupy ye hurling of ye litill balle with the hookie sticks or staves.' Thankfully, as in Kilkenny these laws seem to have had little lasting effect.



Indeed, the game appears to have been widely played in the latter middle ages.  In the far north of the country, for example, a 15th century Galloglass's grave slab from Co. Donegal clearly depicts a sword, hurley and sliotar (see image to the left). Similarly in the south of the country, hurling was so prevalent, that the Lord Chancellor William Gerrarde was forced to reprimand the English settlers of the Munster Plantation for playing the game in 1587.

In the post-medieval period hurling continued to prosper, often under the patronage of the Anglo-Irish gentry. These matches drew large crowds and many colourful accounts of these games survive.

For example, in 1792, 'a hurling match took place in the Phoenix Park', Dublin in front of a vast 'concourse of spectators', with 'much agility and athletic contention, until the spectators forced into the playing ground'. (King 2005, p. 18).

Similarly in 1827, a game at Callan, Co. Kilkenny is described thus, 'It was a good game. The sticks were being brandished like swords. Hurling is a war-like game. The west side won the first match and the east the second. You could hear the sticks striking the ball from one end of the Green to the other' (diaries of Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin).

Inter-village and sometimes inter-county hurling matches flourished throughout the 19th century."

AZ's centres of hurling probably are linked to proximity on horseback for inter parish hurling in the 1700s/1800s
The other thing is that places where hurling was played in the Middle Ages may have opted for football post 1884 when the great energy of the GAA was unleashed.

Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin sounds very interesting.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Owenmoresider

Quote from: AZOffaly on November 30, 2015, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 30, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
I'm sceptical of the whole good farmland thing. The best farmland in the country would be in Meath and that's not renowned as a hurling hotbed, no disrespect to the likes of Seán Boylan. My own vague theory is that hurling excellence is a function of proximity to other hurling counties. Back in the days before widespread private transport it was more important to be able to play your neighbours on a regular basis. Tournament matches were a huge deal, with the winners getting 'a line of suit' each. Antrim is an obvious exception but there's proximity theory at work there - to Scotland. There's a PhD to be written on the subject. In fact, I'm suddenly aghast 15 years after the event that I didn't consider the Geographical implications for my undergraduate dissertation...

I think that's true to a certain extent, but what is the reason for those pockets? East Galway, South/West Offaly, North Tipperary, East Clare, East Limerick, could all be said to form one pocket. Kilkenny, Waterford, East Cork, South Tipp would be another large pocket. So if it is geographical proximity, what is the reason for the geographical centres in the first place?

North Kerry wouldn't border the Limerick hurling stronghold, put is obviously the hurling part of Kerry, and likewise the Ard Peninsula is out on its own.
And further to that (and to save them the bother in their rather surprising absence) the Roscommon hurling pocket of 6/7 clubs straddles the East Galway border from Ballinasloe up to Ballygar.

seafoid

Quote from: Owenmoresider on November 30, 2015, 03:55:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 30, 2015, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: deiseach on November 30, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
I'm sceptical of the whole good farmland thing. The best farmland in the country would be in Meath and that's not renowned as a hurling hotbed, no disrespect to the likes of Seán Boylan. My own vague theory is that hurling excellence is a function of proximity to other hurling counties. Back in the days before widespread private transport it was more important to be able to play your neighbours on a regular basis. Tournament matches were a huge deal, with the winners getting 'a line of suit' each. Antrim is an obvious exception but there's proximity theory at work there - to Scotland. There's a PhD to be written on the subject. In fact, I'm suddenly aghast 15 years after the event that I didn't consider the Geographical implications for my undergraduate dissertation...

I think that's true to a certain extent, but what is the reason for those pockets? East Galway, South/West Offaly, North Tipperary, East Clare, East Limerick, could all be said to form one pocket. Kilkenny, Waterford, East Cork, South Tipp would be another large pocket. So if it is geographical proximity, what is the reason for the geographical centres in the first place?

North Kerry wouldn't border the Limerick hurling stronghold, put is obviously the hurling part of Kerry, and likewise the Ard Peninsula is out on its own.
And further to that (and to save them the bother in their rather surprising absence) the Roscommon hurling pocket of 6/7 clubs straddles the East Galway border from Ballinasloe up to Ballygar.
And the Galway side of that border would be football country.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

manfromdelmonte

A lot of those hurling clubs in Roscommon owe their existence to primary school teachers from Munster and Leinster counties arriving after the foundation of the state.

Some of the oldest hurling clubs in Galway played their hurling on dried up tourloughs in the summer time.

seafoid

Tan, Collins, Moore, Smith and Donnellan have not been invited to conditioning training. Might be the end of the line for them. An awful pity they didn't finish the deal. Some of the stand outs of the last decade.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Cyril Farrell fan

Donoghue is being too quick to get rid of players who still have something to offer. This puts a lot of pressure on the younger players.

johnneycool

Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on October 28, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Donoghue is being too quick to get rid of players who still have something to offer. This puts a lot of pressure on the younger players.

None of those lads were starters under Donoghue or if they were, they were used sparingly like Smith and Moore and if I read it right he's keeping an open ended panel.

I think he's right to have a good look over the young talent over the winter and NHL and make a decision in the spring. He's not going to see anything from those older lads he hasn't already seen before.

ashman

Quote from: johnneycool on October 28, 2016, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on October 28, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Donoghue is being too quick to get rid of players who still have something to offer. This puts a lot of pressure on the younger players.

None of those lads were starters under Donoghue or if they were, they were used sparingly like Smith and Moore and if I read it right he's keeping an open ended panel.

I think he's right to have a good look over the young talent over the winter and NHL and make a decision in the spring. He's not going to see anything from those older lads he hasn't already seen before.

Next year is massive for Galway. 

seafoid

Quote from: johnneycool on October 28, 2016, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on October 28, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Donoghue is being too quick to get rid of players who still have something to offer. This puts a lot of pressure on the younger players.

None of those lads were starters under Donoghue or if they were, they were used sparingly like Smith and Moore and if I read it right he's keeping an open ended panel.

I think he's right to have a good look over the young talent over the winter and NHL and make a decision in the spring. He's not going to see anything from those older lads he hasn't already seen before.
Plus they are in D2

They might be good subs.
I dont think it is bleak either
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

Galway County Board delegates were recently told that of €3.47m apparently generated in gate receipts from Leinster SHC and Walsh Cup games involving Galway between 2009 and 2015, the county received less than €130,000.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/galway-to-push-for-underage-hurlers-leinster-inclusion-1.2845885
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

ashman

Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2016, 04:03:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 28, 2016, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on October 28, 2016, 12:08:38 PM
Donoghue is being too quick to get rid of players who still have something to offer. This puts a lot of pressure on the younger players.

None of those lads were starters under Donoghue or if they were, they were used sparingly like Smith and Moore and if I read it right he's keeping an open ended panel.

I think he's right to have a good look over the young talent over the winter and NHL and make a decision in the spring. He's not going to see anything from those older lads he hasn't already seen before.
Plus they are in D2

They might be good subs.
I dont think it is bleak either

D2 will be hurling's equivalent of sex on legs next year.  Limerick , Galway , Davy's Wexford , a rejuvenated OFfaly. 

seafoid

Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 04:15:57 PM
Galway County Board delegates were recently told that of €3.47m apparently generated in gate receipts from Leinster SHC and Walsh Cup games involving Galway between 2009 and 2015, the county received less than €130,000.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/galway-to-push-for-underage-hurlers-leinster-inclusion-1.2845885
I wonder how much Kilkenny got
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2016, 04:15:57 PM
Galway County Board delegates were recently told that of €3.47m apparently generated in gate receipts from Leinster SHC and Walsh Cup games involving Galway between 2009 and 2015, the county received less than €130,000.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/galway-to-push-for-underage-hurlers-leinster-inclusion-1.2845885
I wonder how much Kilkenny got
how much did Dublin get?