Latest Developments In Galway Hurling Saga Show How Bleak The Situation Is

[deiseach]

The other lads have basically answered this already but basically there are very large portions of the sporting playing pool already likely to chose other sports. In a small pool like Ireland it's hard for any sport to expand significantly. There's also a lot of teams of a very high standard and the nature of hurling means it's hard to bridge that gap and this increases the challenge of providing enough appropriate competition to keep lads involved.

It's difficult to introduce hurling anywhere, we can take that as read. The question is why it would be so much less difficult to introduce it in California or Connecticut than it is in Cavan or Carlow. The notion that there is some manner of population limit on the playing base of a sport in an area that, once breached, means other sports can pick up the slack, doesn't strike me as a strong argument. And the experience of Argentinian rugby does seem to contradict the idea that playing teams at the highest standard is an impediment to progress for a weaker entity.

[seafoid]

The other lads have basically answered this already but basically there are very large portions of the sporting playing pool already likely to chose other sports. In a small pool like Ireland it's hard for any sport to expand significantly. There's also a lot of teams of a very high standard and the nature of hurling means it's hard to bridge that gap and this increases the challenge of providing enough appropriate competition to keep lads involved.

It's difficult to introduce hurling anywhere, we can take that as read. The question is why it would be so much less difficult to introduce it in California or Connecticut than it is in Cavan or Carlow. The notion that there is some manner of population limit on the playing base of a sport in an area that, once breached, means other sports can pick up the slack, doesn't strike me as a strong argument. And the experience of Argentinian rugby does seem to contradict the idea that playing teams at the highest standard is an impediment to progress for a weaker entity.

Rubby has been played in Argentina for decades.
Hurling has an agricultural problem, OTOH.   You need a county with good land (Offaly is the exception) and in places like Kerry and Cavan the land is shite.
Now, it's not bad in CT so maybe it has better chance than in CN.

[Zulu]

The other lads have basically answered this already but basically there are very large portions of the sporting playing pool already likely to chose other sports. In a small pool like Ireland it's hard for any sport to expand significantly. There's also a lot of teams of a very high standard and the nature of hurling means it's hard to bridge that gap and this increases the challenge of providing enough appropriate competition to keep lads involved.

It's difficult to introduce hurling anywhere, we can take that as read. The question is why it would be so much less difficult to introduce it in California or Connecticut than it is in Cavan or Carlow. The notion that there is some manner of population limit on the playing base of a sport in an area that, once breached, means other sports can pick up the slack, doesn't strike me as a strong argument. And the experience of Argentinian rugby does seem to contradict the idea that playing teams at the highest standard is an impediment to progress for a weaker entity.

I didn't say it would be much less difficult to introduce it in California than Cavan, there are challenges in both examples but they are very different types of challenges.

The notion that there is some manner of population limit on the playing base of a sport in an area that, once breached, means other sports can pick up the slack, doesn't strike me as a strong argument.

You wouldn't accept that developing hurling in a area with a population of 70K, all of whom know the sport but most play other ones, would be more difficult than an area with 39 million where most never heard of it? Outside of the potential to engage with far more people and thus generate far more players you also have more people who don't have any preconceived ideas of the sport, less people who might not want it to happen because it will take away from your football, soccer, rugby team etc.

And the experience of Argentinian rugby does seem to contradict the idea that playing teams at the highest standard is an impediment to progress for a weaker entity.

As pointed out by Seafoid, Argentina has a far greater tradition of rugby than Cavan has of hurling. Besides the nature of hurling means that better teams tend to be able to hammer opponents. Japan beat South Africa in rugby and we beat Germany in soccer which highlights how the gap in quality can be bridged in some sports due to how they are played. It wouldn't be as easy to break that glass ceiling in hurling. Whereas a game developed in California might be at a level far below Kilkenny since they never have to play them or even see much of them the game could produce 40 teams who could compete against each other quite happily in California. Cavan teams would always need to play the outside their boundaries.

[seafoid]

Kilkenny have made the issue of developing hurling even worse. Now not even Cork can compete, never mind Cavan.

However Laois can beat Offaly (4 All Irelands) so there is some progress.

I suppose the nature of GAA competition where winning is restricted to a small coterie of counties is also an issue. Cavan and Ros, neither noted for their hurling success,  have rich football traditions but are basically lost when it comes to football competition.
Whatever this has to with bleakness in Galway is beyond me. 

[manfromdelmonte]

The worst land in Meath and Westmeath has most of the hurling clubs
figure that out

[muppet]

Kilkenny have made the issue of developing hurling even worse. Now not even Cork can compete, never mind Cavan.

However Laois can beat Offaly (4 All Irelands) so there is some progress.

I suppose the nature of GAA competition where winning is restricted to a small coterie of counties is also an issue. Cavan and Ros, neither noted for their hurling success,  have rich football traditions but are basically lost when it comes to football competition.
Whatever this has to with bleakness in Galway is beyond me.

[AZOffaly]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=BKYqPJAzysQ

[seafoid]

The worst land in Meath and Westmeath has most of the hurling clubs
figure that out

the exception that proves the rule !
Land is a massively misunderstood factor in the development of hurling.
Fertiliser may be the answer for Cavan.

[manfromdelmonte]

The worst land in Meath and Westmeath has most of the hurling clubs
figure that out

the exception that proves the rule !
Land is a massively misunderstood factor in the development of hurling.
Fertiliser may be the answer for Cavan.

The idea that land quality has anything to do with the popularity of hurling is ridiculous

[seafoid]

The worst land in Meath and Westmeath has most of the hurling clubs
figure that out

the exception that proves the rule !
Land is a massively misunderstood factor in the development of hurling.
Fertiliser may be the answer for Cavan.

The idea that land quality has anything to do with the popularity of hurling is ridiculous

In fairness, it isn't. Hurling from the 1700s was a game patronised by well to do landlords who owned profitable estates in the better endowed parts of the country. Tipp, Cork and KK are the big three and all have fabulous farm land. It's not Mayo, Leitrim and Longford for a very good reason.

[keep her low this half]

The green glens of Antrim are beautiful to look at but rubbish to farm ( too steep, thin soil, inclement weather etc etc ) hurling is still the number 1 sport in the area (although looking at Antrim hurlers you may doubt that ). Whatever about the 1700s all you need nowadays is a good pitch and some committed people. Areas like Cavan, Roscommon Mayo etc have plenty of good quality GAA pitches . What they are lacking is people committed to promoting hurling. In the regard of the pitches available they are light years ahead of the USA they also have the advantages of a league and championship set up to help promote the game if the will was there.

[seafoid]

The green glens of Antrim are beautiful to look at but rubbish to farm ( too steep, thin soil, inclement weather etc etc ) hurling is still the number 1 sport in the area (although looking at Antrim hurlers you may doubt that ). Whatever about the 1700s all you need nowadays is a good pitch and some committed people. Areas like Cavan, Roscommon Mayo etc have plenty of good quality GAA pitches . What they are lacking is people committed to promoting hurling. In the regard of the pitches available they are light years ahead of the USA they also have the advantages of a league and championship set up to help promote the game if the will was there.

A priest from Cork brought hurling to the Glens.
Sure if the land was good in antrim there wouldn't be any catholics on it anyway. The Ulster plantation was very like the creation of Israel- natives confined to poor upland areas while the invaders got the plains.
The land in Mayo and Ros is good in places but to hell or to Connacht was about land quality.

[theskull1]

I think Cork priest got hurling up and running in the likes of Dungannon and Buncrana as well. Very few listen to the instructions of a priest now.

See Tyrone have set up a development plan to get more clubs up and running over the next 10 years. Best of luck to them

[johnneycool]

I think Cork priest got hurling up and running in the likes of Dungannon and Buncrana as well. Very few listen to the instructions of a priest now.

See Tyrone have set up a development plan to get more clubs up and running over the next 10 years. Best of luck to them

Hurling was introduced to the Ards by a Tipp man in Portaferry and in later years a Kilkenny man to Ballycran.

Plenty of good farmland in the Ards, only in the last 30 to 40 years or so has it worked it way into nationalists hands, although in saying that the land our pitch resides on was bought from a protestant farmer in the 60's who was subsequently turfed out of the Orange Order.

[deiseach]

I'm sceptical of the whole good farmland thing. The best farmland in the country would be in Meath and that's not renowned as a hurling hotbed, no disrespect to the likes of Seán Boylan. My own vague theory is that hurling excellence is a function of proximity to other hurling counties. Back in the days before widespread private transport it was more important to be able to play your neighbours on a regular basis. Tournament matches were a huge deal, with the winners getting 'a line of suit' each. Antrim is an obvious exception but there's proximity theory at work there - to Scotland. There's a PhD to be written on the subject. In fact, I'm suddenly aghast 15 years after the event that I didn't consider the Geographical implications for my undergraduate dissertation...