The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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J70

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 12:19:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 11:22:02 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:37:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 29, 2020, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 29, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
So Trump may win because of Chicago and an isolated spike in violence in parts of NYC?

Are you not confirming Main Street's point whitey?

Also are the Democrats not the party of gun control? Surely it's the President/Republican Party's fault that these guns are still out there killing people?

ILLEGAL guns are killing people

Gun control is off the docket for the 2020 election thanks to the Democrats

The GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, gun control has been off the table for years, but its all the Dems fault, as usual with you! ;D

Letting mobs run unchecked through middle class neighborhoods is not a winning strategy IMHO

Private individuals having to use legally held firearms to protect themselves and their properties from mobs of looters and hooligans and crickets from the Democrats

Is this another Boston-area single event anecdote?

Believe what you want

What did you think of the mob pelting the NYPD with bottles over the weekend when they were responding to a shooting?

Its not a matter of believing what I want.

You're the one, as usual, making the bold claims and then complaining when questioned on it.

As for the Harlem incident, I think it was disturbing. I would imagine most people find it disturbing, whether they're reactionary right wingers demanding absolute respect for all police, no matter what, or black residents fed up with the conduct, tactics and strategies of the police in their neighbourhoods.

A serious breakdown in law and order is developing

A felon with a gun in Boston-cops surrounded by a mob while trying to arrest him

Shooting in NYC-cops pelted with bottles while trying to respond

And now this one from Connecticut-

https://www.fox61.com/mobile/article/news/local/wethersfield-police-release-video-details-to-put-social-media-of-arrest-in-context/520-16aaa331-0556-4c9d-a54f-ea116c092b38?fbclid=IwAR2M6KKUhN95VrlEt7srBBaXj7gZKtFaKYepmFNs1irdaRtC59fUj653698

Depends how you define "serious breakdown in law and order".

The authorities and community leaders have to get together to sort this stuff out, but its not going to be solved overnight.

At least the cops in CT got that guy.

whitey

J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

J70

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

whitey

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest

whitey

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
This heartbreaking story just gets worse. Not content with murdering the gentlest soul you could ever meet, they have the gall to gloat about it. How is this any different from the Gestapo?

Quote
Colorado Police Officers Under Investigation For Photos At Elijah McClain Memorial
June 30, 202012:09 PM ET

The police department in Aurora, Colo., is investigating several officers who posed for photographs near the site where Elijah McClain was forcibly arrested as he walked home from a convenience store last summer. The site became a memorial to the 23-year-old who died in police custody. He was not suspected of committing any crime.

Interim Chief of Police Vanessa Wilson announced the investigation late Monday night, saying that when she learned about the photos on Thursday, she "immediately ordered Internal Affairs to make this investigation their top priority."

The photos came to light after an Aurora police officer reported them to the department's internal affairs unit. Summarizing that initial report, Wilson said that "multiple Aurora Police officers were depicted in photographs near the site where Elijah McClain died."

Wilson did not provide further details about the officers or the photographs. Reporter Brian Maass of local TV station CBS 4 described the images as showing officers reenacting the carotid restraint hold that was used on McClain.


The police chief released her statement confirming the internal investigation about an hour after Maass tweeted about the photos.

McClain was confronted by police on Aug. 24, after a man who was driving down the same street called 911 and reported a man who looked "sketchy."

At the time, "McClain was walking home from a local convenience store carrying a bottle of iced tea," as NPR's Vanessa Romo has reported. "He was wearing a ski mask and listening to music on the kind of headphones that fit snugly inside the ear."

McClain's family has said he sometimes wore a face mask because he felt cold due to anemia. Police body-cam footage from the encounter shows McClain pleading with the officers, "I was just going home. I don't have a gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't even kill flies. I don't even eat meat."

He is pinned down for several minutes in a carotid hold.

A medic with the Aurora Fire Rescue later injected McClain with ketamine to calm him. McClain was put into an ambulance and suffered cardiac arrest en route to the hospital. He was taken off life support on Aug. 30.

Last week, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis took the rare step of ordering a new investigation into McClain's death, telling Attorney General Phil Weiser to prosecute the case if the facts warrant criminal charges.

The governor acted after millions of people signed a petition calling for an independent look into McClain's death.

"They murdered him. They are bullies with badges," McClain's mother, Sheneen McClain, said of the Aurora police in an interview with CBS News.

In February, the Aurora Police Department cleared the three officers involved in the fatal encounter — Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema.

Adams County District Attorney Dave Young also declined to file criminal charges, saying that while he might agree with those who say McClain's death was avoidable, he did not believe the evidence and circumstances would support a criminal case.

McClain's death has come under renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, as mass protests have focused public outrage over police killings of Blacks and other minorities.

Chief Wilson said that when the internal investigation into the photos began, the officers involved were switched into "non-enforcement capacities." They are currently on administrative leave with pay.

The internal affairs unit finished its investigation Monday night, Wilson said. She pledged that her department would release all materials related to the inquiry.

"This will include reports, photographic evidence obtained, officer's names, and my final determination which can rise to the level of termination," Wilson said.

The pattern is so predictable it's not even funny.


  • A black man acts slightly different from the norm.

  • A white person gets freaked out and calls the cops.

  • Cops show up and get rough with their victim, who has not done anything illegal, and who has underlying medical conditions.

  • The victim dies.

  • Police investigate themselves and clear their buddies of any wrongdoing.

  • Prosecutors, who have a cozy relationship with police, decline to prosecute despite  glaring evidence that would have seen a private citizen locked up without bail if they had done the same thing.


In cases like George Floyd, conservatives dig into the victim's past to find wrongdoing, implying that the extra-judicial killing was justified. How can they do this in the case of Elijah McClain? He was on the autistic spectrum. He wore a mask to stay warm because of his anemia. He was listening to music and dancing as he walked, which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

He was not a thug. He was not a criminal. He was an innocent. He would go to the local animal shelter and play the violin to sooth lonely homeless kittens.

His last words were:



Let's see your ifs, buts, "there must be more to the story" claims, and justification for this, evil Nazis.

So a guy wearing a balaclava (in August)  fails to compl with a lawful order,, resists  arrest and attempts to take an officers gun (twice I believe), but the cops are at fault....eh......okay


Gmac

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest
unfortunately a lot  cops just want to survive long enough to get their pension and are using a hands off approach to policing, staying away from potential trouble as much as they can .

whitey

Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:33:27 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest
unfortunately a lot  cops just want to survive long enough to get their pension and are using a hands off approach to policing, staying away from potential trouble as much as they can .

I'm going away for a few of days over the Fourth. with 2 other families. One of the guys is a detective....should be interesting to hear his take

J70

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
J70-if you were a cop in a high crime area, why would you put yourself in danger at this point trying to apprehend anyone?

Are they not continuing to do their job every day and night all across the big cities?

Of course they're "doing their jobs", but are they now backing away from situations where previously they would have attempted an arrest

I don't know. Are they?

Gmac

I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

whitey

Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .
Eamonn will have to cancel his vacation plans

APM

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 30, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
This heartbreaking story just gets worse. Not content with murdering the gentlest soul you could ever meet, they have the gall to gloat about it. How is this any different from the Gestapo?

Quote
Colorado Police Officers Under Investigation For Photos At Elijah McClain Memorial
June 30, 202012:09 PM ET

The police department in Aurora, Colo., is investigating several officers who posed for photographs near the site where Elijah McClain was forcibly arrested as he walked home from a convenience store last summer. The site became a memorial to the 23-year-old who died in police custody. He was not suspected of committing any crime.

Interim Chief of Police Vanessa Wilson announced the investigation late Monday night, saying that when she learned about the photos on Thursday, she "immediately ordered Internal Affairs to make this investigation their top priority."

The photos came to light after an Aurora police officer reported them to the department's internal affairs unit. Summarizing that initial report, Wilson said that "multiple Aurora Police officers were depicted in photographs near the site where Elijah McClain died."

Wilson did not provide further details about the officers or the photographs. Reporter Brian Maass of local TV station CBS 4 described the images as showing officers reenacting the carotid restraint hold that was used on McClain.

The police chief released her statement confirming the internal investigation about an hour after Maass tweeted about the photos.

McClain was confronted by police on Aug. 24, after a man who was driving down the same street called 911 and reported a man who looked "sketchy."

At the time, "McClain was walking home from a local convenience store carrying a bottle of iced tea," as NPR's Vanessa Romo has reported. "He was wearing a ski mask and listening to music on the kind of headphones that fit snugly inside the ear."

McClain's family has said he sometimes wore a face mask because he felt cold due to anemia. Police body-cam footage from the encounter shows McClain pleading with the officers, "I was just going home. I don't have a gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't even kill flies. I don't even eat meat."

He is pinned down for several minutes in a carotid hold.

A medic with the Aurora Fire Rescue later injected McClain with ketamine to calm him. McClain was put into an ambulance and suffered cardiac arrest en route to the hospital. He was taken off life support on Aug. 30.

Last week, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis took the rare step of ordering a new investigation into McClain's death, telling Attorney General Phil Weiser to prosecute the case if the facts warrant criminal charges.

The governor acted after millions of people signed a petition calling for an independent look into McClain's death.

"They murdered him. They are bullies with badges," McClain's mother, Sheneen McClain, said of the Aurora police in an interview with CBS News.

In February, the Aurora Police Department cleared the three officers involved in the fatal encounter — Nathan Woodyard, Jason Rosenblatt and Randy Roedema.

Adams County District Attorney Dave Young also declined to file criminal charges, saying that while he might agree with those who say McClain's death was avoidable, he did not believe the evidence and circumstances would support a criminal case.

McClain's death has come under renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, as mass protests have focused public outrage over police killings of Blacks and other minorities.

Chief Wilson said that when the internal investigation into the photos began, the officers involved were switched into "non-enforcement capacities." They are currently on administrative leave with pay.

The internal affairs unit finished its investigation Monday night, Wilson said. She pledged that her department would release all materials related to the inquiry.

"This will include reports, photographic evidence obtained, officer's names, and my final determination which can rise to the level of termination," Wilson said.

The pattern is so predictable it's not even funny.


  • A black man acts slightly different from the norm.

  • A white person gets freaked out and calls the cops.

  • Cops show up and get rough with their victim, who has not done anything illegal, and who has underlying medical conditions.

  • The victim dies.

  • Police investigate themselves and clear their buddies of any wrongdoing.

  • Prosecutors, who have a cozy relationship with police, decline to prosecute despite  glaring evidence that would have seen a private citizen locked up without bail if they had done the same thing.


In cases like George Floyd, conservatives dig into the victim's past to find wrongdoing, implying that the extra-judicial killing was justified. How can they do this in the case of Elijah McClain? He was on the autistic spectrum. He wore a mask to stay warm because of his anemia. He was listening to music and dancing as he walked, which, the last time I checked, was not illegal.

He was not a thug. He was not a criminal. He was an innocent. He would go to the local animal shelter and play the violin to sooth lonely homeless kittens.

His last words were:



Let's see your ifs, buts, "there must be more to the story" claims, and justification for this, evil Nazis.

So a guy wearing a balaclava (in August)  fails to compl with a lawful order,, resists  arrest and attempts to take an officers gun (twice I believe), but the cops are at fault....eh......okay



I have never posted on this topic before, but I've read your contributions and it is infuriating reading your whataboutery and support for authoritarian style policing.  However, it takes a special type of person to post this.  Why are you making comments like those above.  You weren't there, you don't know what happened. All you really know that it ended in the death of a young black man.   The claim made about reaching for the gun was made by the police officers under investigation.  You appear to place absolute trust in their account.

History in Ireland (Garda, Maurice McCabe, RUC etc) shows that you cannot rely exclusively on the word of policemen and that they must be held properly to account.  Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Corruption exists in police forces all over the world and the George Floyd incident caught on camera, the type of bullying disregard that exists within USA policing for fellow USA citizens.

Some of the behaviour of the police in the USA reminds me of this:
https://twitter.com/DonalLyons/status/915965306740314112

Maybe if you found yourself on the wrong side of this authoritarian style policing you wouldn't be so forgiving.  It might be a good thing if you knew what it was like to be stopped for being different or being in the wrong part of town, and questioned or searched without any good reason.  It might do no harm if you were told to give respect to a police officer who is barking instructions at you and giving you no respect in return and assuming you are a gun wielding criminal. I think you might change your mind if you spent 15 minutes under the knee of an armed and aggressive policeman for little or no reason. 

Open your eyes and your mind and show a bit of empathy.  That means seeing everyone as equals and fellow citizens with the same rights.  What we are currently seeing in the USA is no different to the kind of prejudice, aggression and authoritarianism that we seen in the video above. We all know that worse happened here when there were no cameras on police officers.

Any Irish person should know what becomes of this type of policing and should remember how those of a unionist persuasion would vigorously defend the police officers behaviour (just like you) because they seen the police as being on their side.  Little wonder when apparatus of the state, including the police, was partisan and didn't respect everyones' equal citizenship and civil rights. 

The USA is no different.  People should not die in those circumstances in police custody.  Those who blithely accept the account of the police when a US citizen dies in those circumstances clearly isn't that concerned about the right to life of their fellow citizens.

whitey

#17171
There's a video of exactly what happened.....did you not see it?  Directly from body cam

It's tragic what happened, but Eamonn referring to the cops as Nazis for doing their fvckin jobs is completely unhinged

If someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.


Gabriel_Hurl

Quote from: whitey on July 01, 2020, 05:37:57 PMIf someone was walking around my town, at night, in the middle of summer wearing a balaclava, I sure as hell would want the cops to stop and question them. I bought a house in a quiet town because I don't want or need aggravation. If you or I reacted the way that kid did, we would have been treated in a similar manner.

Of course you would.  ::)


J70

Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?

Gmac

Quote from: J70 on July 01, 2020, 07:45:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 01, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
I see chaz is gone and all it did was destroy a few blocks and get 4/5 people shot .

What will Fox News scare the old people with now?
isn't there one in New York now,  you should go down and join .