Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[armaghniac]

I suggest we get a large number of this flag and fly it from each GAA ground in honour of the occasion.

[Billys Boots]

Cop out.

Except that he's right.  For the same reason that the CEO of BP is responsible, even if he didn't do it himself. Your 'argument' should be with the British PM, several of whom have visited our country, without major issue.

The point he makes is right but it ignores the similarities of which I am talking about. You can pick differences all day but it's a cop out. It's only longfingering the question and diguising it as though the question is wrong. You are longfingering it futher. I'm not going to be dragged into that. It does not take much thought to recognise the similarities and the essence of the question.

Maybe I'm missing the point - are you saying that you're happy to let the British PM visit (even though he's the one responsible for the predicament, as you admit), whereas you want to deny the visit of an elderly lady who can't do anything to change the situation?  And muppet's copping out?

[Hardy]

I think it's the tabloid mentality, Billy. The queen of the UK (or just "The Queen", as she's referred to even in the Irish media) is the important representative of the British state, cos she's a celebrity, like.

The office of the British Prime minister, ultimately responsible for the wrongs perpetrated on Irish people by Britain in the last generation or so, is flavour of the month even among the barstool patriots because it apologised last week for Bloody Sunday, so everything's OK on that front and not a firebrand "Republican" here mentions Campbell in the context of the victims of whose welfare they're so solicitous. But lock up your children lest the little ould wan in the funny hat should get them.

[Billys Boots]

Looks like Danny Morrison is 'selling them out' today.

[Billys Boots]

My reasons for being pissed at this are directed at the Irish Government. If Cameron is need he to deal with political issues then he should be here. Frankly it's a stupid question.

Is that why you gave a stupid answer?

[Farrandeelin]

I suggest we get a large number of this flag and fly it from each GAA ground in honour of the occasion.

That flag is the union of England and Scotland. It's the red lines inside the angular ones that represent Ireland within the Union. That flag wouldn't bother me too much but I would be in favour of Scottish Independence too.

[Canalman]

Not too pushed either way but the sanctimonious waffle wiil be hard to take. Ould dears will be wheeled out to "greet" her.

Only hope the cost to the State ("in these recessionary times") will get the same scrutiny that undoubtedly the centenary celebrations of 1916 will get in the media.

Never forget that the main reason the Queen of England hasn't come before is that the Crown was in dispute with the State over "unpaid" ground rents etc.

Always chuckle when I hear her real name Elizabeth von Saxe Coburg Gotha (I think).

[saffron sam2]

It would be good if the Queen of Englnd's visit to the Free State was during September.

Then she could be a special guest of the GAA at one of the All-Ireland finals.

[muppet]

Look Zap, I respect your position and understand that it is a huge issue with a lot of our 6 county cousins and for good reason, but to me she is just an old woman who spent her life gardening and walking quirky little dogs.

If that is all she is to you then you must be pissed that she is to be recieved by the State. What if this take off and all old ladies expect the same?
I have a neighbour, she is just an old woman who spends her life gardening and walking quirky little dogs. The only time she is recieved by the state is when she is laying in pain on a trolly in Connolly Hospital. There is a difference in these two though. One is not the Queen of England.

I'm not pissed at all. There is enough wrong around Ireland without getting upset at an octogenarian token figurehead being met by our leaders in one of those pompous shiny button rituals that all countries do.

[mylestheslasher]

I wouldn't like to see the child abuse protector pope or the miserable old bag of a queen in this country. But to be honest what would sicken my hole about such a visit is the moronic idiots that will go out cheering and waving flags like gombeens. Wait till ye northern boys get a look at the D4's out welcoming their messiah back, you won't believe the amount of Union Jacks these people will produce. Then there will be the D4 infested RTE coverage of it which will make ye want to puke, it will be labelled as the most important thing that ever happened to us.

[sammymaguire]

I suggest we get a large number of this flag and fly it from each GAA ground in honour of the occasion.

That flag is the union of England and Scotland. It's the red lines inside the angular ones that represent Ireland within the Union. That flag wouldn't bother me too much but I would be in favour of Scottish Independence too.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

I guess he sees the full implementation of the Good Friday agreement, voted for by the people of Ireland and formally accepted by both states as putting the relationship between between both states on a normal basis.

I know that not all people (even those that voted for it) see it as such but there you go............

/Jim.

If this is the case Jim it's clear abuse of the GFA. By that conclusion there would have been no need to finish saville or have an inquiry into Dublin and Monaghan bombings. There would also be no need for an historical enquires team or calls for a system to deal with the past to help all innocent victims.

How is it an abuse)  The HET and Saville inquiry have been implemented.

It is government policy here that the GFA was a settlement between both states and Cowan commented that said settlement was implemented.  Hence normal relations between both countries allows for state visits.

I don't see much of a groundswell against that policy in the Republic.

/Jim.

[thewobbler]

To be honest Zap I'm glad you're not in a position of influence.

Re-read your last spiel.

You portray Ireland as a second class country and want to blame everyone for this apart from the general Irish population.

That's the kind of mindset prevalent on giro day down at the post office.

Thankfully, most of us would rather get on with our lives and make the best of what lies ahead rather than ponder the imponderables of the past, adjusting them to suit their needs.

[stephenite]

To be honest Zap I'm glad you're not in a position of influence.

Re-read your last spiel.

You portray Ireland as a second class country and want to blame everyone for this apart from the general Irish population.

That's the kind of mindset prevalent on giro day down at the post office.

Thankfully, most of us would rather get on with our lives and make the best of what lies ahead rather than ponder the imponderables of the past, adjusting them to suit their needs.

Well said

[pintsofguinness]

I'm not pissed at all. There is enough wrong around Ireland without getting upset at an octogenarian token figurehead being met by our leaders in one of those pompous shiny button rituals that all countries do.

I think you are intentionally missing my point. You have set a ceiling to this discussion which you refuse to be drawn above. The avoidance of proper debate around serious issues is directly in line with the current political class we are forever complaining about. Your assertion that this is nothing more than a little old lady visiting is such a low level of understanding it's barely worth debating, which I think is the intention here. It's along the lines of claiming that the Sam Maguire Cup is merely a cup and if people want a cup that badly I'll give them one I have plenty in my cupboard at home.

The fact that you keep dragging the discussion back to the low level within your comfort zone is telling. The fact that we don't have any decent engagement from other posters who revert back to trying to find my stereotypes to discredit my points or picking holes in simple questions in order to avoid the question is telling also. I have clearly stated that I have no animosity towards the lady herself.

The victims of British State violence are viewed as a lower form of victim by the Irish Government and many of it's citizens. This invite to the queen (not the gardener but the symbolic leader of Britain, it's armed forces, the common wealth and the Church of England) is evidence of that. If this happens it will be the end to any possible chance that the innocent victims will have to get recognition. This is futher evidenced by Brian Cowen, who waited only a week after innocent victims of Bloody Sunday who had been criminalised for 40 years got their names cleared through Saville. Cowen claimed that there is now no Obstacle to prevent the Queen visiting. This tells me that Cowen sees the Criminalisation on innocent victims as nothing more than an obstacles that has to be removed. It also tells me that he believes that the victims of bloody Sunday are the only victims who are worthy of having their name cleared and that it was only ever an obstalce to a royal visit in the first place.

This shouldn't surprise me. For years the British have been killing and torturing innocent people on this Island. These victims were then often wrongly criminalised in order to justify the killings. This extended to criminalising whole communities. These communities still live in the shackles of this criminalisation and their loved ones still lay dead as criminals. This British policy was aided by the Irish Government and now they are looking to confine it to history forever.

The collaborators in the British and Irish Governments are writing the history of the conflict and it is a false history. The Irish Governments unwillingness to take a stand against anyone leaves us in a position that we will forever be second class citizens in Europe. This is the Ireland we will leave behind. This is the Ireland we inherited. Another generation of Irish people who have failed to improve the nation. The phrase that Ireland should rise up and take her place among the Nations is now Ireland should stay put among the secondary nations.

Well said. 
And how right you were about the bit in bold. 

To be honest Zap I'm glad you're not in a position of influence.

Re-read your last spiel.

You portray Ireland as a second class country and want to blame everyone for this apart from the general Irish population.

That's the kind of mindset prevalent on giro day down at the post office.

Thankfully, most of us would rather get on with our lives and make the best of what lies ahead rather than ponder the imponderables of the past, adjusting them to suit their needs.

Cutting through the nonsense - Ireland is a second class country because the government has no backbone and will not defend it's citizens, whether it be against the Israelis or the Brits.
I'm glad you can get on with your life, stick the head in the sand, "lets move on", "nothing here concerns me". Maybe you should give a thought to those visiting graves of loved ones killed by the British state and who still have never had any apology, explanation or acknowledgment their loved one didn't bring it upon themselves.

but hey, it doesnt affect you so why should you give a shit.