Surprised this has not been mentioned here yet. I'm very proud of our GAA players for taking a leadership position and placing the focus firmly on the issue of homelessness. We need this horrible stain on our society to be ended. follow the group on twitter/FB and do what you can to help.
https://www.gaelicvoicesforchange.com/ (https://www.gaelicvoicesforchange.com/)
Social housing was dumped when Ireland went neoliberal and started to worship debt. It was the wrong thing to do. .banks and insurance companies could help build social housing. They earn SFA on bonds.
The Credit Union movement offered the Govt €3bn or €5bn for housing purposes but offer was never accepted.
NAMA must have hundreds of hectares of housing land.
I'm sure the ECB would give us a one year interest free on the bail out loans to kick start social/affordable housing.
First the Government needs to pass a Housing Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act as there is a bloody emergency.
Social housing done poorly creates more problems than it solves. I don't know if I trust our government or even the charities involved, no matter how pure their intentions, to tackle that issue in a sustainable manner.
The problems that lead to homelessness is rarely as simple as lack of housing anyways.
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2017, 04:39:01 PM
Social housing done poorly creates more problems than it solves. I don't know if I trust our government or even the charities involved, no matter how pure their intentions, to tackle that issue in a sustainable manner.
The problems that lead to homelessness is rarely as simple as lack of housing anyways.
Absolutely and it continues to be ignored, many people are homeless due to addiction and other complex issues and wouldn't be able to keep a house. It's not just as simple as a lack of houses
Those poor unfortunates were always with us even when there were 90,000 houses per annum being built.
8,000+ "regular" peopje living in emergency hotel rooms, rents gone through the roof, potential first time buyers caught in catch 22 of high prices/rents and the need for a 10% deposit which they'll never manage........
Not an original thought from Government on the issue -like the public health crisis it doesn't affect politicians' families so it's just waffle and try and manage the crisis.
The Sleep out should be attractive to those players familiar with the blanket defence.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
Those poor unfortunates were always with us even when there were 90,000 houses per annum being built.
8,000+ "regular" peopje living in emergency hotel rooms, rents gone through the roof, potential first time buyers caught in catch 22 of high prices/rents and the need for a 10% deposit which they'll never manage........
Not an original thought from Government on the issue -like the public health crisis it doesn't affect politicians' families so it's just waffle and try and manage the crisis.
Charities consistently fixating on housing hardly do many favours to the issue either. Politicians don't suddenly become a different species when they're deemed elected. The problems are societal. That means you, me, everyone. The fact is most of us don't
really care, not just politicians.
First time buyers are the least of my concern. If someone has enough money to even contemplate a house purchase it's a very different problem from a lad with addiction problems sleeping on a piece of cardboard on the street.
Kids in school shouldn't have to live in B&Bs when companies pay 15% tax. 2 rough sleepers died last week. Economic policies do kill people.
Social housing is about an attitude. So is social support for people in crisis.
It is the same with mental health . A certain number of people will die every year because they don't know what can be done to help them.
Society will always have people in trouble.
The question is what the priorities are.
There was no rough sleeping in my young day,and there was hell of a lot less money about all round.Of course drugs were unheard of,but families rallied round those members with addictions a lot better,mainly alcohol,and there would I'm sure have been collective family shame had a member been forced to sleep out.
This is getting worse and has to be addressed. It's a multi faceted problem and there's simply no will to address it in political circles. We have to rebuilt our moral values as a society and start thinking for ourselves again - not accepting bullshit groupthink diktats about economic systems and such like.
As Corbyn puts it across the pond, quite simply and succinctly - for the many, not the few. We are Irish people - the island of the thousand welcomes. We cannot let this happen to people in our cities and towns no matter who's to "blame". Most human beings need a bit of help every now and then.
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2017, 04:39:01 PM
Social housing done poorly creates more problems than it solves. I don't know if I trust our government or even the charities involved, no matter how pure their intentions, to tackle that issue in a sustainable manner.
The problems that lead to homelessness is rarely as simple as lack of housing anyways.
Social housing when done right and properly funded can be very comfortable and not just for people on lower incomes. This is one area that's worth looking to other countries for examples to follow.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 05, 2017, 10:38:42 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2017, 04:39:01 PM
Social housing done poorly creates more problems than it solves. I don't know if I trust our government or even the charities involved, no matter how pure their intentions, to tackle that issue in a sustainable manner.
The problems that lead to homelessness is rarely as simple as lack of housing anyways.
Social housing when done right and properly funded can be very comfortable and not just for people on lower incomes. This is one area that's worth looking to other countries for examples to follow.
Plenty of examples of public housing in most western countries of the best of intentions going terribly wrong. Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis got so bad it needed to be demolished within 16 years of its construction at massive cost, financially and socially. Projects like the renewal of the Ballymun flats area here seem to be significantly more successful.
Fixing the problems that lead someone to be homeless is much more important than building housing that will likely end up ghetoising people imho.
Not much interest in the Homeless/Accommodation in the Dáil it appears.
19 of the 158 attended a debate on this very important subject tester day.
2 FG
8 FF - 1 if them the Ceann Comhairle who has to be there. Our Eugene was one of the 7.
3 SF
1 Lab
3 Loony PBP.
1 leftie Ind
1 Green.
Obviously no votes in it.
Now if it was about asking middle class townies to pay €3 a week towards the cost of public water and sewerage.......
Have the squads been announced for this yet? Is Connolly starting for the Dubs?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 02:27:49 PM
Not much interest in the Homeless/Accommodation in the Dáil it appears.
19 of the 158 attended a debate on this very important subject tester day.
2 FG
8 FF - 1 if them the Ceann Comhairle who has to be there. Our Eugene was one of the 7.
3 SF
1 Lab
3 Loony PBP.
1 leftie Ind
1 Green.
Obviously no votes in it.
Now if it was about asking middle class townies to pay €3 a week towards the cost of public water and sewerage.......
Our homeless numbers are actually quite good so it's not fair to say people don't care, we care far more than most if you're being honest. I'm tired of the need to present societal problems like this as always being a 'crisis', albeit I'm sure many of those involved feel they only way they can get attention is by being as loud and indignant as possible.
This night has already raised 100k, good to see.
I'm sure the 8,300 people in Emergency accommodation in hotel rooms will be delighted that our homeless figures are "quite good"
Until the last 2 years homelessness was the lot of various poor addicts, alcoholics, people with psychiatric problems -the traditional "down and outs".
Now thanks to spiralling private rents and lack of social or affordable housing "normal" families have nowhere to live.
If that's your idea of "quite good"......
Right wing idealistic free market it graduates jot in touch with the biggest societal crisis in the country....
The joys of outsourcing social housing needs to the private sector , 35k houses built by state in the midst of poverty in 1985, 70 in total 2015. I yhink those are the figures the consistently honourable Peter McVerry quoted
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 08:39:54 PM
I'm sure the 8,300 people in Emergency accommodation in hotel rooms will be delighted that our homeless figures are "quite good"
Until the last 2 years homelessness was the lot of various poor addicts, alcoholics, people with psychiatric problems -the traditional "down and outs".
Now thanks to spiralling private rents and lack if social ir affordable housing "normal" families have nowhere to live.
If that's your idea of "quote good"......
Yes, the figures are good. That good is obviously relative to where these numbers were in decades past (when hundred of thousands if not millions here lived in destitute poverty) and indeed other countries right now. It's simply a case of taking a cold look at figures and not letting emotion cloud your opinion. Politicians and public figures dare not say that because of the shouting down it would engender, but it's true all the same.
Acknowledging the situation for what it is doesn't preclude the need for more to be done.
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
That last post isn't worthy of any comment.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
I''ll comment.
Fuvk off back to licking cardinals rings and posting distasteful jokes about the dead you pompous p***k. You have neither knowledge nor empathy
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
You are one sick cookie
So the simple solution is to build more houses? If all the homeless were allocated their own house today,how would they fare? Have they the means,commitment and knowledge to upkeep it for example?
The immediate answer lies in treatment (forced if necessary) of addiction,and families rallying round their own kith and kin in difficultly.
Quote from: Syferus on December 06, 2017, 01:49:45 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 05, 2017, 10:38:42 PM
Quote from: Syferus on December 05, 2017, 04:39:01 PM
Social housing done poorly creates more problems than it solves. I don't know if I trust our government or even the charities involved, no matter how pure their intentions, to tackle that issue in a sustainable manner.
The problems that lead to homelessness is rarely as simple as lack of housing anyways.
Social housing when done right and properly funded can be very comfortable and not just for people on lower incomes. This is one area that's worth looking to other countries for examples to follow.
Plenty of examples of public housing in most western countries of the best of intentions going terribly wrong. Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis got so bad it needed to be demolished within 16 years of its construction at massive cost, financially and socially. Projects like the renewal of the Ballymun flats area here seem to be significantly more successful.
Fixing the problems that lead someone to be homeless is much more important than building housing that will likely end up ghetoising people imho.
Good old Pruitt Igoe.
https://youtu.be/nq_SpRBXRmE
When the Land Commission was doling out land in the 30s people in towns in Connacht without housing got a house and an acre. All over Roscommon of course. . And it didn't collapse into addiction. I wouldn't be surprised if a few of the great Ros players of the late 70s came from those houses.
You should take yourself out of your hole sometime Syf
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
Your inability to understand is down to your limited intelligence. Unfortunately in a country where everyone is entitled to their opinion we have to entertain the shite you come out with
Explain it so
Yes I'd like homelessness explained too.If a tsunami or hurricane renders people homeless I would have every sympathy.
But this is certainly not the case in Ireland.I was informed at a seminar in Belfast by a senior manager of Belfast City Centre Management Who was also training to be a Methodist cleric that no one in Belfast any night needs to be sleeping in doorways or outside they are all offered beds every night.Addicts should be institutionalised and treated.
People forced out due to the market system whereby landlords seek to maximise their income,are no more victims of capitalism and the laws of supply and demand than anyone else.These people should be given adequate notice and every opportunity to find alternative accommodation
The alternative accommodation will be usually unaffordable leading to hotel rooms.
We need more affordable houses for first time buyers and more social housing for people who can't afford to buy those affordable houses.
Couldn't the Government introduce a VAT deferment for 1st time buyers and let that count as a deposit for mortgage purposes?
So instead of a house costing €227k incl VAT and the couple having to have a deposit of € 22.7k they simply get a mortgage of €200k and pay the €27k VAT at €1,000 per year.
High house prices are part of the problem. Prices crashed in 2008. It was decided to reflate the market to suit the banks.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
Being brought up in the county, I knew of men who slept in hay sheds or the back seat of old vehicles. They would try to get casual work on farms, but never begged. Any time they came into money it was spent on drink. Some snipers on here may not know, but beggars would have been moved on by the police.
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2017, 07:23:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 02:27:49 PM
Not much interest in the Homeless/Accommodation in the Dáil it appears.
19 of the 158 attended a debate on this very important subject tester day.
2 FG
8 FF - 1 if them the Ceann Comhairle who has to be there. Our Eugene was one of the 7.
3 SF
1 Lab
3 Loony PBP.
1 leftie Ind
1 Green.
Obviously no votes in it.
Now if it was about asking middle class townies to pay €3 a week towards the cost of public water and sewerage.......
Our homeless numbers are actually quite good so it's not fair to say people don't care, we care far more than most if you're being honest. I'm tired of the need to present societal problems like this as always being a 'crisis', albeit I'm sure many of those involved feel they only way they can get attention is by being as loud and indignant as possible.
This night has already raised 100k, good to see.
You're an ignoramus.
Quote from: longballin on December 16, 2017, 10:48:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
You are one sick cookie
You haven't a clue what you're talking about Fearon. You've put some disgusting, ignorant shite up here but that's among the worst. Shame on you. And you supposed to be a Christian.
Huge credit to all the men and women who were involved on this campaign. It's quite clear that a lot of ignorance, lack of compassion for fellow humans and misinformation is rife about this topic and the bullshit above underlines it. Hopefully the campaign will open some folks eyes but I guess there's no hope for others.
This situation is a stain on us as a people, as a society and cannot be allowed to continue. The money being wasted while lining the pockets of private investors (the most important people in the property game for the banks and their handmaidens, the politicians) in this area alone is a crime.
Relationship breakdown, illness , lack of payrises and the artificially high cost of housing on top of no social housing built since the 80s would be the main reasons for this crisis.
Once again Mr Fearon demonstrates what a decent Christian he is .
We all endorse capitalism, and the laws of supply and demand.
The vast majority of us work damned hard to acquire and keep a roof over our heads and other basic necessities.We don't resort to the escapism of drug abuse and support our family members and friends when they need a helping hand.
Just stop digoing FFS.
Have you read any of the posts above at all?
Why should someone get free housing and others have to work hard to acquire this necessity?
There is a myriad of social services available already.No one needs to be sleeping out on this island except they choose to do so.
I'd pay more taxes, and wouldn't it be great if more of the super wealthy stood up and said the same thing for better social provision of services. Think we'd be much all be spiritually, emotionally and physically healthier if that was our modus operandi as a society.
If no one needs to be sleeping out in Belfast (the words of a trainee Methodist Cleric and member of Belfast City Centre Management) due to the myriad of social services that exist,I'm pretty sure no one needs to be sleeping out in Dublin or anywhere else on this island.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 09:42:57 AM
We all endorse capitalism, and the laws of supply and demand.
The vast majority of us work damned hard to acquire and keep a roof over our heads and other basic necessities.We don't resort to the escapism of drug abuse and support our family members and friends when they need a helping hand.
There is no problem just like there was no economic suppression of Taigs pre 1969 in NI. And the parents are responsible for any rape of their kids.
And if anyone is short of money they should enter spot the ball competitions.
Every other thread on this board turns into this back and forth bull.
Does anyone know what the solution is ? I have read lots of different people talking about the problem of homelessness but not too many solutions
Solution is simple.Addicts institutionalised for treatment by force if necessary, and others given a short term safety net until they get back on their feet.
I know I shouldn't even respond to the Tony but we're not talking about the traditional down and out types only when we refer to homeless these days.
Inflated house prices, ridiculous high private rents, no social or affordable housing being built,........
But all Tony can see is a drug addict who won't use an emergency shelter.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2017, 11:33:28 AM
I know I shouldn't even respond to the Tony but we're not talking about the traditional down and out types only when we refer to homeless these days.
Inflated house prices, ridiculous high private rents, no social or affordable housing being built,........
But all Tony can see is a drug addict who won't use an emergency shelter.
But Rossfan I think a lot of it is to do with addition and a chaotic lifestyle as they call it, I don't think it's just a matter of not having a house. I know Tony didn't exactly phrase it correctly, who knew, but I can see what he is trying to get at with his usual nuance and the subtlety of a brick .....
Are you his carer, Minder ?? ;D ;D ;D
Sorry boys,but I haven't spotted any Solicitors or Doctors down on their luck,tucked up in sleeping bags in shop doorways.The people I've seen,well it is obvious from their appearance that they have addiction problems.
There is a range of housing benefits up north to help with rents,rate relief,Housing Folds,Shelters etc to help those unable to pay.I assume (because people in the South are far better off in every way economically according to Seafoid) that there are at least equivalent if not superior benefits paid in the South?
Doesn't matter what benefits or assistance if there aren't enough houses.
Seems only about 10,000 houses a year being built but 35k needed.
Apart from one off houses in rural areas those being built in economically successful areas are beyond the price of low income and the "Squeezed Middle" so beloved of the Blueshirts.
In normal societies the latter can always afford to buy houses thus leaving lower rents for others and no need for thousands to be living in emergency accomodation .
Quote from: T Fearon on December 16, 2017, 09:30:10 PM
I do not understand homelessness.It was never a problem in my young day,yet money was scarce.Addicts were committed to appropriate institutions to receive treatment and often "signed in" by their families,contrary to their own wishes.
It all boils down to living within your means.
There are two reasons for homelessness as I see it,addicts who won't seek help,and people who have proved they cannot manage their finances to keep a roof over their heads.
More houses for people who are incapable of dealing with the responsibilities of household management doesn't seem to be the answer.
This post just highlights the complete lack of understanding and empathy of the situation that people find themselves. Using this mantra, society should be 'every person for themselves' and an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. It's a horrible stereotypical attitude that would not be out of place on the far right wing of the Tory Party.
Tony homelessness is not exclusively rough sleeping......
That's the kindest response I can make
It is essentially equated with rough sleeping which is presumably why GAA players slept out in Dublin and Belfast City Centres last Saturday night.
Reading through this thread one would think that those of us with rooves over our heads should be considered lucky or blessed as opposed to the reality of having worked hard and made sacrifices to acquire and keep accommodation.
The solution as I said is simple enough,the homeless should be lifted from the streets every night and placed in an institution,the addicted should receive treatment and the relatives of others found on the streets should be informed and encouraged to collect their kith and kin as soon as possible.
How much longer do we have to put up with this WUM?
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 18, 2017, 03:30:11 PM
How much longer do we have to put up with this WUM?
The people who stand by him should be pitied also
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
The solution as I said is simple enough,the homeless should be lifted from the streets every night and placed in an institution,the addicted should receive treatment and the relatives of others found on the streets should be informed and encouraged to collect their kith and kin as soon as possible.
Yeah, put them in an institution. Like one of those institutions where single mothers and their children were put into not so long ago. That'll work great!
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
It is essentially equated with rough sleeping which is presumably why GAA players slept out in Dublin and Belfast City Centres last Saturday night.
Reading through this thread one would think that those of us with rooves over our heads should be considered lucky or blessed as opposed to the reality of having worked hard and made sacrifices to acquire and keep accommodation.
The solution as I said is simple enough,the homeless should be lifted from the streets every night and placed in an institution,the addicted should receive treatment and the relatives of others found on the streets should be informed and encouraged to collect their kith and kin as soon as possible.
You obviously don't understand pr and publicity do you
What will you do with the 6 families a day receiving eviction notices and living in hotel rooms as a result ?????
????.
So is free housing the solution,paid for by the rest of us of course?
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 04:50:54 PM
????.
So is free housing the solution,paid for by the rest of us of course?
Tony, do you think families with young kids are homeless because of addiction or 'choice'?
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 18, 2017, 08:37:35 AM
Quote from: Syferus on December 16, 2017, 07:23:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2017, 02:27:49 PM
Not much interest in the Homeless/Accommodation in the Dáil it appears.
19 of the 158 attended a debate on this very important subject tester day.
2 FG
8 FF - 1 if them the Ceann Comhairle who has to be there. Our Eugene was one of the 7.
3 SF
1 Lab
3 Loony PBP.
1 leftie Ind
1 Green.
Obviously no votes in it.
Now if it was about asking middle class townies to pay €3 a week towards the cost of public water and sewerage.......
Our homeless numbers are actually quite good so it's not fair to say people don't care, we care far more than most if you're being honest. I'm tired of the need to present societal problems like this as always being a 'crisis', albeit I'm sure many of those involved feel they only way they can get attention is by being as loud and indignant as possible.
This night has already raised 100k, good to see.
You're an ignoramus.
Wouldn't have expected more than nonsense from you.
https://homelessworldcup.org/homelessness-statistics/
Our figures compare favourably with other western countries, nevermind that some countries care so little they don't even track homelessness figures nationally - I'm right. Sorry, but you'll have to get that through your head and grow up a little. Fixating on your personal grudges does a massive disservice to the social issue being discussed.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 04:50:54 PM
????.
So is free housing the solution,paid for by the rest of us of course?
There will always be people who because of their income levels will not be able to afford to buy a home. They are willing to pay rent to the local authority and society should be able to provide adequate levels of social housing. Then there are people who are very willing to buy a house if theycan get some support such as the affordable housing schemes where there is concession on price and restrictions on resale to prevent racketeeering. And then there are people with adequate incomes who will take on mortgages. Unfortunately there are some who because of health, addiction, marriage breakdowns etc who will need total support. A properly ran Republic should be able to provide this
How many hectares are NAMA sitting on?
How about building a load of houses under a "rent to buy" scheme for 1st time buyers who will never put away enough to meet the 10% deposit requirement?
Vat deferment as I suggested earlier?
Govt take up the ILCU offer to fund social housing?
Some dreadful comments on this thread akin to Nazi Germany
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
How many hectares are NAMA sitting on?
How about building a load of houses under a "rent to buy" scheme for 1st time buyers who will never put away enough to meet the 10% deposit requirement?
Vat deferment as I suggested earlier?
Govt take up the ILCU offer to fund social housing?
Y'see, inflationary bubbles are a massive issue with things that make it easier to buy houses, or at least appear like you are buying a house. Prices have already risen to silly levels despite massive building happening and hundreds if not thousands of unwanted houses being built in the last ten years. A crash like the last one would cause more to be homeless. Everything is co-dependant in housing - it's a very fine balancing act.
Quote from: Syferus on December 18, 2017, 07:11:04 PM
Y'see, inflationary bubbles are a massive issue with things that make it easier to buy houses, or at least appear like you are buying a house. Prices have already risen to silly levels despite massive building happening and hundreds if not thousands of unwanted houses being built in the last ten years. A crash like the last one would cause more to be homeless. Everything is co-dependant in housing - it's a very fine balancing act.
Thank you professor for the economics lecture. Insightful as usual.
Can someone explain to me how during my childhood,where money was scarce and there were big Catholic working class families,in the North and presumably the South,many existing on meagre benefits,homelessness was non existent?
Yes drugs were non existent,but there was no easy credit facilities,and people lived comfortably within their means.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 07:33:43 PM
Can someone explain to me how during my childhood,where money was scarce and there were big Catholic working class families,in the North and presumably the South,many existing on meagre benefits,homelessness was non existent?
Yes drugs were non existent,but there was no easy credit facilities,and people lived comfortably within their means.
Community spirit is dead. The GAA is probably the last element left.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
It is essentially equated with rough sleeping which is presumably why GAA players slept out in Dublin and Belfast City Centres last Saturday night.
Reading through this thread one would think that those of us with rooves over our heads should be considered lucky or blessed as opposed to the reality of having worked hard and made sacrifices to acquire and keep accommodation.
The solution as I said is simple enough,the homeless should be lifted from the streets every night and placed in an institution,the addicted should receive treatment and the relatives of others found on the streets should be informed and encouraged to collect their kith and kin as soon as possible.
Homeless and rough sleeping in LA is considerably worse than in Ireland. So Ive seen a few solutions floated and this is often the first one.
Biggest problem with that soltuion is being homeless is not a crime so you cant get arrested for being homeless. The police used to get around this by lifting them for drug possession, they got thrown in the clink and could make bail so thats where they stayed more or less at the taxpayers expense.
Then everyone thought it was a great idea to legalize marijuana. What happened then was the police cant lift them for that either and the rough sleeping population explodes and I mean explodes! They are literary everywhere in Southern California.
I heard them mention on the news tha they were thinking of making the Encampment on Skid Row a UN status refugee camp, ....on the streets on one of the world's wealthiest cities!
Also relatives often dont want to know they've been around the block with them supporting them on addiction programs only for that to lapse. I know someone that works for the city adjacent to mine and they will actually pay the families to take them away, doesnt work tho the homeless population keeps growing
What to do? Nobody knows. Applying emotions to it doesn't solve anything either, some people declare its their own fault so they deserve it. Maybe it is, maybe its not, but that's doesn't get them off the streets and the problems that comes with it.
Some people provide services for them food showers haircuts etc at the encampments however that provides them with basically everything they need and the encampments grow and grow and unsurprisingly they say they are happy there...
There are no easy solutions
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 18, 2017, 08:32:02 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
It is essentially equated with rough sleeping which is presumably why GAA players slept out in Dublin and Belfast City Centres last Saturday night.
Reading through this thread one would think that those of us with rooves over our heads should be considered lucky or blessed as opposed to the reality of having worked hard and made sacrifices to acquire and keep accommodation.
The solution as I said is simple enough,the homeless should be lifted from the streets every night and placed in an institution,the addicted should receive treatment and the relatives of others found on the streets should be informed and encouraged to collect their kith and kin as soon as possible.
Homeless and rough sleeping in LA is considerably worse than in Ireland. So Ive seen a few solutions floated and this is often the first one.
Biggest problem with that soltuion is being homeless is not a crime so you cant get arrested for being homeless. The police used to get around this by lifting them for drug possession, they got thrown in the clink and could make bail so thats where they stayed more or less at the taxpayers expense.
Then everyone thought it was a great idea to legalize marijuana. What happened then was the police cant lift them for that either and the rough sleeping population explodes and I mean explodes! They are literary everywhere in Southern California.
I heard them mention on the news tha they were thinking of making the Encampment on Skid Row a UN status refugee camp, ....on the streets on one of the world's wealthiest cities!
Also relatives often dont want to know they've been around the block with them supporting them on addiction programs only for that to lapse. I know someone that works for the city adjacent to mine and they will actually pay the families to take them away, doesnt work tho the homeless population keeps growing
What to do? Nobody knows. Applying emotions to it doesn't solve anything either, some people declare its their own fault so they deserve it. Maybe it is, maybe its not, but that's doesn't get them off the streets and the problems that comes with it.
Some people provide services for them food showers haircuts etc at the encampments however that provides them with basically everything they need and the encampments grow and grow and unsurprisingly they say they are happy there...
There are no easy solutions
An awful lot of homeless in US drift towards LA due to its climate .
Quote from: T Fearon on December 18, 2017, 07:33:43 PM
Can someone explain to me how during my childhood,where money was scarce and there were big Catholic working class families,in the North and presumably the South,many existing on meagre benefits,homelessness was non existent?
Yes drugs were non existent,but there was no easy credit facilities,and people lived comfortably within their means.
Whilst I don't want to waste time debating with you do you not know anything about history here? People living in overcrowded unfit slums. You also have a complete lack of understanding of the different types of homelessness and seem to be conveniently making cheap points backing these up with uninformed jibes at vulnerable people who, for a variety of reasons, suffer from drug, alcohol and substance abuse. For a man who worked in a credit union you seem to have very empathy with the ethos of that and other organisations who exist to assist the less well off.
Many of the problems were caused by outlawing bedsits without their own bathrooms. It was well intentioned, but it removed a lot of accommodation options at the bottom rung of the ladder. The rough sleeping problem will never fully be eliminated so long as alcohol, drugs and mental illness are factors. It can be managed at best.
In terms of the overall accommodation shortage. Government policy since the 1963 Planning Act has been to keep house prices inflated. Even a couple of years ago, Michael Noonan stated that it was his aim to keep house pries increasing.
People usually dismiss the possibility of social housing building, using edge cases like Ballymun or Southill, but it has been successful in most towns around the country down through the years.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 18, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Many of the problems were caused by outlawing bedsits without their own bathrooms. It was well intentioned, but it removed a lot of accommodation options at the bottom rung of the ladder. The rough sleeping problem will never fully be eliminated so long as alcohol, drugs and mental illness are factors. It can be managed at best.
In terms of the overall accommodation shortage. Government policy since the 1963 Planning Act has been to keep house prices inflated. Even a couple of years ago, Michael Noonan stated that it was his aim to keep house pries increasing.
People usually dismiss the possibility of social housing building, using edge cases like Ballymun or Southill, but it has been successful in most towns around the country down through the years.
Social.housing works very well where occupiers are integrated in the community and respected.
The big cluster fucks in Dublin and Limerick involved social ostracisation.
Bord na Mona built house for workers all over the midlands as well but it was under a different economic model.
Another thing.Ive never seen anyone sleeping rough in the doorways of shops etc in my home town.Is this phenomenon restricted to large cities,Belfast and Dublin,and are the people doing it natives of these cities or do they travel there to sleep rough (after having turned down the accommodation offered to them each night)?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on December 18, 2017, 10:32:35 PM
Many of the problems were caused by outlawing bedsits without their own bathrooms. It was well intentioned, but it removed a lot of accommodation options at the bottom rung of the ladder. The rough sleeping problem will never fully be eliminated so long as alcohol, drugs and mental illness are factors. It can be managed at best.
In terms of the overall accommodation shortage. Government policy since the 1963 Planning Act has been to keep house prices inflated. Even a couple of years ago, Michael Noonan stated that it was his aim to keep house pries increasing.
People usually dismiss the possibility of social housing building, using edge cases like Ballymun or Southill, but it has been successful in most towns around the country down through the years.
Excellent post.
The policy of keeping house prices high is not in the interests of the many. It's clear who stands to benefit from this and it's a central plank of the widening inequality in Ireland.
Great point on the social housing issue. Citing extreme cases again indicates that there's just no appetite for letting people get houses for below the inflated prices. Sadly, we can see from this thread that several people think it's ok for us to have people homeless so long as there are more homeless people elsewhere......some sort of warped logic or ideology like that.
No one wants to see anyone homeless,but the reasons the vast majority have homes is because they have worked damned hard to get houses and stay in them.
In modern Ireland North and South there is an array of benefits and social services available,so I find it hard to believe that anyone is sleeping rough except by choice.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2017, 08:55:31 AM
No one wants to see anyone homeless,but the reasons the vast majority have homes is because they have worked damned hard to get houses and stay in them.
In modern Ireland North and South there is an array of benefits and social services available,so I find it hard to believe that anyone is sleeping rough except by choice.
Well you're just plain wrong.
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 19, 2017, 09:00:11 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2017, 08:55:31 AM
No one wants to see anyone homeless,but the reasons the vast majority have homes is because they have worked damned hard to get houses and stay in them.
In modern Ireland North and South there is an array of benefits and social services available,so I find it hard to believe that anyone is sleeping rough except by choice.
Well you're just plain wrong.
You also use this term 'sleeping rough'. Homelessness is not just about people in doorways in Dublin, many of whom have problems. But there are entire families, thousands of them, living in hotel rooms, with no quality of life. Children going to a buffet breakfast in City North hotel in school uniforms. Mams trying to get them to school. No facilities to cook so you eat whatever you are allowed in the hotel. No places to play, to interact with other kids. Homework in a hotel room with brothers and sisters around you. Nothing to do except sit in the room and watch hotel TV.
That is no quality of life, and surely we can do better than that. Obviously hotels are better than the street, but that's no way to bring up a family. Your heart would break seeing them.
I've a couple of contracts with a few hotel groups.
Part of the contract is for me to go into these hotels and do safety audits on their electrical systems.
There are a number of these hotels that part of them are being used to house some of these families.
I actually have to go into these families bedrooms and do a safety audit on the electrical wiring/outlets and issue a cert.
What I have seen is pretty grim. Small hotel rooms that may have 2 or 3 kids living there. The rooms are so cramped Ive seen toasters and microwaves on the toilet floor as there is literally no where else to put them.
Stackes of clothes everywhere. Kids nowhere to play bar run up and down the corridors.
You get talking to some of these people as you go about your work and the vast majority you can't help but feel sorry for. Plenty of them actually have jobs and keep their rooms immaculate.
I will say there would be a minority who are playing the system. One woman told me she was offered a 3 bed house but because she has 3 children she wanted a 4 bedroom house as she wanted a bedroom for each kid and herself so she refused it. That kind of annoyed me to hear that.
In general though these families are just like yours or mine but just find themselves in a really unfortuante situation.
I tell you one thing it makes you appreciate coming home and putting a key in your own front door.
Well said LL.
They still have a roof over their head.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2017, 11:56:49 AM
They still have a roof over their head.
and they should kiss your grubby arse for that should they...
you dont even understand the definition of homelessness........
clear winner of gaaboard gobshite of the year award
He'll get my vote anyway😁
Excellent posts from Offaly and Laois above.
He's undefeated in that category despite some stiff competition at times.
People accommodated in hotels (for which families on breaks or holidays) while awaiting permanent re housing are not homeless.
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2017, 04:08:23 PM
People accommodated in hotels (for which families on breaks or holidays) while awaiting permanent re housing are not homeless.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2017, 04:08:23 PM
People accommodated in hotels (for which families on breaks or holidays) while awaiting permanent re housing are not homeless.
would you swap places and live in one ensuite room for say 3 years if its so idyllic
I have lived in a hell of a lot worse.
Portadown?
RTÉ 1 9.35 tonight.
A disgrace - https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/943186509871673344
You want to see what privately let student accommodation was like in the late 70s.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 19, 2017, 08:15:44 PM
A disgrace - https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/943186509871673344
That bank bailout money would have come in very f**king handy to help out people like this.
Over 8,800 now in hotel emergency accomodation, an increase of 26.8% over this time last year.
The Housing Minister is "disappointed " :-\
Not enough mangers in this country eh Tony?