13 yr old stoned to death

[Zapatista]

The people who committed this barbaric crime did so in the name of sharia law, as did the taleban when they were shooting women in the Kabul football stadium. Those are facts and are nothing to do with war being waged in Iraq and Afghanistan both of which i believe are illegal and immoral.

I agree but, it hasn't been established that the report from Somalia is a fact.

[Donagh]

Saw this report on another board the other week and I'm still skeptical in that there was no independent verification in that report or this one. Given the nature of the conflict there, in that it's another front of the Yankie 'war on terrorism' as well having a lot of regional powers involved, I'd want to see independent verification of any reports coming from that region. 

[mylestheslasher]

Lads the story is sick and horrific. It would make the blood boil alright - just look at some of the "tabloid" like response on here already. I suspect that was the intention of the story. I don't know much about Somalia except that it is an extremely violent country suffering severe tribal wars and some of the most horrific acts of butchery you could read about anywhere. But does a crime like this, committed by a muslim or whoever - implicate their whole religion as being non-peaceful. Christians have just as many skeletons in the closet as do the jews and probably anyone else. Can we not just condemn this terrible act for what it is without turning this into a religious debate?

[Minder]

This thread will either, with the help of the usual suspects, become about Americas "war on terror" or it will somehow go the direction of Green v Orange.

[nifan]

minder you are completely neglecting the religious vs non religious argument.

[Hardy]

Not many people know that sharia courts, with their full underpinning of depraved, bigoted, discriminatory and savage principles, are now operating in Britain, with official legal status.

[Donagh]

Not many people know that sharia courts, with their full underpinning of depraved, bigoted, discriminatory and savage principles, are now operating in Britain, with official legal status.

That's a bit of a broad sweep considering that there is no one or unifying form of Sharia jurisprudence and many of the same principles underpin our own civil and common law.

An interesting fact I came acros while travelling in south America recently was that as Sharia law forbids unethical investments in things such as weapons and alchohol, many of the wealthy middle eastern investment funds are putting their money into infrastructual projects in poor countries there for relatively little return (Sharia forbids the earning of interest in loans). As a result these countries have been able to get investment and loans for a fraction of what it was costing through the western financial system. Doesn't sound all that depraved to me.

[saffron sam2]

Not many people know that sharia courts, with their full underpinning of depraved, bigoted, discriminatory and savage principles, are now operating in Britain, with official legal status.

That's a bit of a broad sweep considering that there is no one or unifying form of Sharia jurisprudence and many of the same principles underpin our own civil and common law.

An interesting fact I came acros while travelling in south America recently was that as Sharia law forbids unethical investments in things such as weapons and alchohol, many of the wealthy middle eastern investment funds are putting their money into infrastructual projects in poor countries there for relatively little return (Sharia forbids the earning of interest in loans). As a result these countries have been able to get investment and loans for a fraction of what it was costing through the western financial system. Doesn't sound all that depraved to me.

And any spare bricks from such projects can be put to good use by stoning 13 year olds to death.

I couldn't finish the Tele's article.

[mylestheslasher]

You'd want to cop on with the Tabloid replies to posts Safron Sam. You are painting all Sharia law as depraved based on one story. It is akin to a muslim stating that all western law is obscene because the USA executes prisioners coming up to election time in the US for political gain. Can you not see that different countries and regimes have differing extremes of fundamentalism. Look in our own western society. We have christians in Ireland who are quite reasonable people and we have christians in the bible belt of the US who think the word of the bible is totally literal and are therefore waiting for armageddon. I can guaruntee you there will be millions of decent muslims that would be equally horrified by this story as you are.

[Hardy]

So systematic discrimination against women, which is enshrined in sharia law, to give just one instance, is OK with you lads? You're not indicating, Donagh, that your socialist principles are flexible enough to accommodate that?

And forgive me for not being an islamic "scholar" and thus not knowing where hand-lopping begins and ends and not being up to speed on the minutiae of which crimes attract execution by stoning. You'll surely understand, though, if I feel a little uneasy that "laws" based on these principles and that show so little respect for freedom of speech that blasphemy is a crime are now officially accepted by some of our EU partners. The same EU to which our own laws are now subservient.

[Donagh]

So systematic discrimination against women, which is enshrined in sharia law, to give just one instance, is OK with you lads? You're not indicating, Donagh, that your socialist principles are flexible enough to accommodate that?

And forgive me for not being an islamic "scholar" and thus not knowing where hand-lopping begins and ends and not being up to speed on the minutiae of which crimes attract execution by stoning. You'll surely understand, though, if I feel a little uneasy that "laws" based on these principles and that show so little respect for freedom of speech that blasphemy is a crime are now officially accepted by some of our EU partners. The same EU to which our own laws are now subservient.

Of course I'm not, merely pointing out that there is no unified Islamic or Sharia law as such and condemning it all on the basis of a bunch of head cases in Somalia is akin to condemning our laws on the basis of a bunch of religious neo-cons in Texas putting people to death there.

[Mentalman]

Read this story on the Beeb last week, but didn't want to post here because I had a feeling it would run this course unfortunately. Not everything is about American imperialism, as it's not always about religion, nor about propaganda. While I would agree that some verification would not do any harm, do we always seek verification in all cases, especially those that reinforce our world view? In any event was an NGO source not quoted in the Beeb article? Or does their source of funding need to be verified too? I'll be honest, my immediate thought upon reading the story, irrespective of religion, was that I would have nutted all one thousand of the bastards who stood by and watched and did nothing, it infuriated me so much. On reflection that was wrong, but I see no hope for people who consider this entertainment, or worse still take some visceral thrill from it - and then you think of our own history of people going to watch public executions in market squares all over the country, even into the early years of the last century.

[Hardy]

So systematic discrimination against women, which is enshrined in sharia law, to give just one instance, is OK with you lads? You're not indicating, Donagh, that your socialist principles are flexible enough to accommodate that?

And forgive me for not being an islamic "scholar" and thus not knowing where hand-lopping begins and ends and not being up to speed on the minutiae of which crimes attract execution by stoning. You'll surely understand, though, if I feel a little uneasy that "laws" based on these principles and that show so little respect for freedom of speech that blasphemy is a crime are now officially accepted by some of our EU partners. The same EU to which our own laws are now subservient.

Of course I'm not, merely pointing out that there is no unified Islamic or Sharia law as such and condemning it all on the basis of a bunch of head cases in Somalia is akin to condemning our laws on the basis of a bunch of religious neo-cons in Texas putting people to death there.

I haven't referred to Somalia at all. I'm letting people know, who may not, that verdicts of sharia "courts" are now being accepted under and supported by British law. I'm not sure about Holland, but I know it's under discussion, at least. These laws, as now practised in Britain, systematically discriminate against various groups, including women and people who deny muslim superstitions. They also deny basic, hard won rights that have been the fundamentals of European law for centuries, such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Sharia law encompasses ritual stoning and judicial maiming. I can't imagine that stoning or dismemberment would be accepted by British law, but is it not at least worthy of comment that European jurisprudence is accommodating such a barbaric body of practices in a misguided attempt at inclusiveness?

[Tyrones own]

Find it funny how many times the US gets a mention here
These scum bags are nothing short of throw backs to the 7th century that have no place in
this day and age, the threat that exists here is very very real no matter how much some of you play it
down with the sweeping generalization excuse, the last numbers i read stated that 1/3 of Muslims in Britain
support the introduction of Sharia law there, so that kinda takes away the generalization argument of "the few rotten apples"
The political correctness here is sickening to be honest....It's OK to call a spade a spade sometimes,
another thing, would some of ye be as quick to doubt some Al jazeera report of the innocent civilians
killed by the US any given day
Interesting link below..... and yes it's a little closer to home than Somalia

http://www.sullivan-county.com/wcva/londonstan.htm

Can any of you explain in terms of Fairness to all how we'd be received protesting like the above in the middle of Mogadishu

[Donagh]

The political correctness here is sickening to be honest....It's OK to call a spade a spade sometimes,
another thing, would some of ye be as quick to doubt some Al jazeera report of the innocent civilians
killed by the US any given day

Actually Al Jazeera are reporting this story as well. I just find it all a bit funny that when we have a stadium that was supposedly packed with people, we have no photos, no film footage and no first hand accounts. Now I reckon that before we nuke the place or declare war on every person in Europe that would like to abide by a version of Sharia law we should at least have some concrete evidence that this happened and if it did that it is somehow reflective of Sharia law in general.