If that is the cream of the crop we are f#*cked! Both QF Today saw shockingly poor officiating! In the first game the Ref clearly hadn't a clue what the advantage rule was & continually awarded pretty poor soft frees. His saving grace was the gulf in class!
Conor Lane has been brutal! McGeeney might well give off but as a neutral Armagh have got away with a fair bit & that black card just looked like a decision by a man than never played the game!
Our standard is absolutely shocking!
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 07:43:22 PM
If that is the cream of the crop we are f#*cked! Both QF Today saw shockingly poor officiating! In the first game the Ref clearly hadn't a clue what the advantage rule was & continually awarded pretty poor soft frees. His saving grace was the gulf in class!
Conor Lane has been brutal! McGeeney might well give off but as a neutral Armagh have got away with a fair bit & that black card just looked like a decision by a man than never played the game!
Our standard is absolutely shocking!
Would that not tell you the game is too hard ref?
Quote from: JoG2 on July 01, 2023, 07:44:55 PM
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 07:43:22 PM
If that is the cream of the crop we are f#*cked! Both QF Today saw shockingly poor officiating! In the first game the Ref clearly hadn't a clue what the advantage rule was & continually awarded pretty poor soft frees. His saving grace was the gulf in class!
Conor Lane has been brutal! McGeeney might well give off but as a neutral Armagh have got away with a fair bit & that black card just looked like a decision by a man than never played the game!
Our standard is absolutely shocking!
Would that not tell you the game is too hard ref?
If you are suggesting that decisions like that black card are hard to call then you are deluded!
Tight games are decided by small margins. Brutal Refs like Lane or Cawley never seem.to get demoted or punished for sub-standard performances.
If you give a black card you have to be 100 percent you saw something. There was nothing there.
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 01, 2023, 07:44:55 PM
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 07:43:22 PM
If that is the cream of the crop we are f#*cked! Both QF Today saw shockingly poor officiating! In the first game the Ref clearly hadn't a clue what the advantage rule was & continually awarded pretty poor soft frees. His saving grace was the gulf in class!
Conor Lane has been brutal! McGeeney might well give off but as a neutral Armagh have got away with a fair bit & that black card just looked like a decision by a man than never played the game!
Our standard is absolutely shocking!
Would that not tell you the game is too hard ref?
If you are suggesting that decisions like that black card are hard to call then you are deluded!
Tight games are decided by small margins. Brutal Refs like Lane or Cawley never seem.to get demoted or punished for sub-standard performances.
Take the ref course and give it a go sure
Get yourselves out there lads. Put your money where your big mouths are.
So you can't call out shite Refs now unless you've done a Referee course? Wise up! They are brutal !
Maybe instead of anyone that criticises Refs being asked if they have done a course. Maybe there should be an onus on Refs to have played the game.
Common sense goes out the window sometimes.
Quote from: mrdeeds on July 01, 2023, 07:50:33 PM
If you give a black card you have to be 100 percent you saw something. There was nothing there.
agreed. Terrible decision. Was accidental.
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 08:09:56 PM
So you can't call out shite Refs now unless you've done a Referee course? Wise up! They are brutal !
Maybe instead of anyone that criticises Refs being asked if they have done a course. Maybe there should be an onus on Refs to have played the game.
Common sense goes out the window sometimes.
Every single person on the pitch will make mistakes inc refs. Let me know how the course goes, I take you're an ex player?
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 08:09:56 PM
So you can't call out shite Refs now unless you've done a Referee course? Wise up! They are brutal !
Maybe instead of anyone that criticises Refs being asked if they have done a course. Maybe there should be an onus on Refs to have played the game.
Common sense goes out the window sometimes.
And why would former players put themselves forward when they've witnessed the abuse first hand. Bigger issue is the farce of hawkeye, how many times now is that it has completely shit itself
Its very easy to go online or to stand on the sideline throwing abuse at a referee. Between that and the on field abuse and assaults its small wonder it is hard to find people to volunteer their time and effort to do it.
I feel bad for them. They've huge ground to cover, looking through a crowd of players at times, and they get one look in real time, whereas as the armchair wonders get the benefit of umpteen slow motion replays from all angles. Its a no-win, thankless job.
Nothing stopping these mouthy idiots doing the course, pulling on the jersey and showing us how easy it is.
Quote from: JoG2 on July 01, 2023, 08:28:28 PM
Quote from: guevara on July 01, 2023, 08:09:56 PM
So you can't call out shite Refs now unless you've done a Referee course? Wise up! They are brutal !
Maybe instead of anyone that criticises Refs being asked if they have done a course. Maybe there should be an onus on Refs to have played the game.
Common sense goes out the window sometimes.
Every single person on the pitch will make mistakes inc refs. Let me know how the course goes, I take you're an ex player?
Mistakes are acceptable. But when you give a black or red it's because you 100 percent saw something. Today that black is the worst call I've ever saw from an official. That includes Sludden. His angle he may have seen Joe kick ball before the line but today no matter what angle he had he could not 100 percent of saw a deliberate trip or pull down.
It was bad but nothing tops the sludden one.
As a notice in a GAA Club I'm familiar with says
"Before you complain have you volunteered?""
Yeh, blame the ref......
Tbf to that ref the shoulder that turbitt got which initially looked like a foul he called absolutely right and armagh would have won had he given it. I think most refs would have called it wrong too.
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Both refs did really well today, overall. Most players made more errors than they did.
No harm but if anyone thinks the referees did well today it says more about the poor clarity of the rules leading to an overall poor standard of consistency in interpreting those rules. We can all say Armagh were crap today, Monaghan weren't great or Tyrone were brutal. Why can't we say the officials had a bad game. Going on the fair today gaelic football is in serious bother. People can laugh and joke at Armagh and their supporters but the last couple of years they have brought numbers to matches. That will soon change if the fare on show continues to be so poor. Look at Tyrone. They used to have a massive support. The football they served up for years now means the local country GAA club could host their games.
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
It was a foul alright. Def not a black card tho.
Lane made a few calls, or rather didn't, that I would like to see again before I hang draw and quarter him haha. Some of the things he did give I disagreed with but at the end of the day he's a lot closer to the play than me so what do I know. Tell ye one thing. I wouldn't be a ref for any money
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 01, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
Tbf to that ref the shoulder that turbitt got which initially looked like a foul he called absolutely right and armagh would have won had he given it. I think most refs would have called it wrong too.
It wasn't a foul and kudos to Conor for spotting that but why the throwball decision when Monaghan had gained possession of the ball?
Quote from: Throw ball on July 02, 2023, 01:10:49 AM
Going on the fair today gaelic football is in serious bother. People can laugh and joke at Armagh and their supporters but the last couple of years they have brought numbers to matches. That will soon change if the fare on show continues to be so poor. Look at Tyrone. They used to have a massive support. The football they served up for years now means the local country GAA club could host their games.
As I endured that game which obviously got very tense and exciting as it dragged on I thought it should be taken and examined by the rules committee or whatever the team charged with looking after the future of the game is called, as it had great examples of everything that is ruining the game of Gaelic football.
I'm not trying to rain on Monaghan's parade and Christ knows Derry v cork might not be easy in the eye later, but that was a hard watch.
Ref got a number of calls wrong, but it's not an easy gig, particularly when teams are as negative as they were today.
The black card needs looked at anyway, it should be expanded from the very narrow range it currently applies to. There were totally cynical play stopping tackles in abundance today, any time football looked like breaking out someone wrestled the man with the ball to the ground or held him up until the cavalry arrived.
Did I see that Armagh had 2 wides today? Could that be right, 16 odd shots in 90/100 mins? Virtually no goal threat from either team in that time, 11 of 28 scores from frees. Totally stop start with no flow at all.
I've said it before, we need to make rule changes to remove the negative options, the fear of losing means teams will take the safest option until that is no longer an option.
This game, a selection of rossie games, a few recent ulster finals, any number of senior club championship games up and down the country should be used to obtain the evidence of the problems and come up with rules countering them or we're not going to have something that spectators want to watch or that players are going to want to play.
Quote from: onefineday on July 02, 2023, 07:34:19 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on July 02, 2023, 01:10:49 AM
Going on the fair today gaelic football is in serious bother. People can laugh and joke at Armagh and their supporters but the last couple of years they have brought numbers to matches. That will soon change if the fare on show continues to be so poor. Look at Tyrone. They used to have a massive support. The football they served up for years now means the local country GAA club could host their games.
As I endured that game which obviously got very tense and exciting as it dragged on I thought it should be taken and examined by the rules committee or whatever the team charged with looking after the future of the game is called, as it had great examples of everything that is ruining the game of Gaelic football.
I'm not trying to rain on Monaghan's parade and Christ knows Derry v cork might not be easy in the eye later, but that was a hard watch.
Ref got a number of calls wrong, but it's not an easy gig, particularly when teams are as negative as they were today.
The black card needs looked at anyway, it should be expanded from the very narrow range it currently applies to. There were totally cynical play stopping tackles in abundance today, any time football looked like breaking out someone wrestled the man with the ball to the ground or held him up until the cavalry arrived.
Did I see that Armagh had 2 wides today? Could that be right, 16 odd shots in 90/100 mins? Virtually no goal threat from either team in that time, 11 of 28 scores from frees. Totally stop start with no flow at all.
I've said it before, we need to make rule changes to remove the negative options, the fear of losing means teams will take the safest option until that is no longer an option.
This game, a selection of rossie games, a few recent ulster finals, any number of senior club championship games up and down the country should be used to obtain the evidence of the problems and come up with rules countering them or we're not going to have something that spectators want to watch or that players are going to want to play.
90% of what you've typed has nothing to do with refereeing?
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 02, 2023, 07:34:19 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on July 02, 2023, 01:10:49 AM
Going on the fair today gaelic football is in serious bother. People can laugh and joke at Armagh and their supporters but the last couple of years they have brought numbers to matches. That will soon change if the fare on show continues to be so poor. Look at Tyrone. They used to have a massive support. The football they served up for years now means the local country GAA club could host their games.
As I endured that game which obviously got very tense and exciting as it dragged on I thought it should be taken and examined by the rules committee or whatever the team charged with looking after the future of the game is called, as it had great examples of everything that is ruining the game of Gaelic football.
I'm not trying to rain on Monaghan's parade and Christ knows Derry v cork might not be easy in the eye later, but that was a hard watch.
Ref got a number of calls wrong, but it's not an easy gig, particularly when teams are as negative as they were today.
The black card needs looked at anyway, it should be expanded from the very narrow range it currently applies to. There were totally cynical play stopping tackles in abundance today, any time football looked like breaking out someone wrestled the man with the ball to the ground or held him up until the cavalry arrived.
Did I see that Armagh had 2 wides today? Could that be right, 16 odd shots in 90/100 mins? Virtually no goal threat from either team in that time, 11 of 28 scores from frees. Totally stop start with no flow at all.
I've said it before, we need to make rule changes to remove the negative options, the fear of losing means teams will take the safest option until that is no longer an option.
This game, a selection of rossie games, a few recent ulster finals, any number of senior club championship games up and down the country should be used to obtain the evidence of the problems and come up with rules countering them or we're not going to have something that spectators want to watch or that players are going to want to play.
90% of what you've typed has nothing to do with refereeing?
If we give both teams participation stickers instead of giving 1 a trophy it will take away the fear of losing. That won't impact the standard of Refs or improve spectators understanding of the rules.
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Big screen immediately cuts the feed when there is a foul and doesn't show replays of it. For black card calls it wouldn't be a bad idea for refs to be able to have a look at it on a replay.
In all seriousness, Conor Lane is nowhere near the level required at the top level. In this day and age, how do you hop the ball as a result of a fair tackle, how do you stop the game for minutes on end for cramp? His inconsistency in refereeing the tackle is infuriating.
Cawley was grand. He's what Croke Park want in a ref and will get more and more big games. Got calls wrong and got more right. Too sanitised for my liking but, again, he's what the powers want.
We are going to find out today again that Dublin joe is in the Lane category. Miles out of touch from the game in terms of its pace, contact and ability to make split second decisions. He's demonstrated that consistently, including this year.
You'd have to wonder what the leadership with referee development are at when you see McQuillan and Lane getting Quarter finals.
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2023, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 01, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
Tbf to that ref the shoulder that turbitt got which initially looked like a foul he called absolutely right and armagh would have won had he given it. I think most refs would have called it wrong too.
It wasn't a foul and kudos to Conor for spotting that but why the throwball decision when Monaghan had gained possession of the ball?
I thought at the time it was a fair, if hard, hit. Seen the video there and while I've, wrongly, seen them given Lane got that one right
the standard of refereeing is crap and i hate that it's nearly taboo to say it. yes, it's not an easy job and there are too many rules that are left up to vague interpretation hence the inconsistency, but there are also too many refs who judge fouls based on the context of the game rather than the incident itself, and thus end up having big influences on games. this thing of playing for last minute frees because it's known that the ref will give them to engineer a draw is nonsense. same with penalties. also the level of contact allowed seems to be getting less and less and players know it, hence all the diving. they know refs will blow it up if they go down, so every time they feel contact, they drop. refs need to be stronger and they need to stop involving themselves in the outcome of games. it's ridiculous.
I thought Cawley was grand yesterday. A game that turns into a tanking is generally easier refereed than say the way the 2nd game turned out. I can see how they missed the McCurry incident. It was done on the blindside. Not like McCurry but dirty nonetheless.
Quote from: WhoDat on July 02, 2023, 10:10:55 AM
the standard of refereeing is crap and i hate that it's nearly taboo to say it. yes, it's not an easy job and there are too many rules that are left up to vague interpretation hence the inconsistency, but there are also too many refs who judge fouls based on the context of the game rather than the incident itself, and thus end up having big influences on games. this thing of playing for last minute frees because it's known that the ref will give them to engineer a draw is nonsense. same with penalties. also the level of contact allowed seems to be getting less and less and players know it, hence all the diving. they know refs will blow it up if they go down, so every time they feel contact, they drop. refs need to be stronger and they need to stop involving themselves in the outcome of games. it's ridiculous.
Sounds easy, give it a go
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2023, 10:02:21 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2023, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 01, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
Tbf to that ref the shoulder that turbitt got which initially looked like a foul he called absolutely right and armagh would have won had he given it. I think most refs would have called it wrong too.
It wasn't a foul and kudos to Conor for spotting that but why the throwball decision when Monaghan had gained possession of the ball?
I thought at the time it was a fair, if hard, hit. Seen the video there and while I've, wrongly, seen them given Lane got that one right
Yes but why then did Conor Lane not give a free out to Monaghan, what was the reason for the throw ball decision?
What I saw was Conor wasn't sure either way if it was a definite foul or a good shoulder and decided to throw up the ball between two players (with 20 others in close proximity). Or the only other circumstance was that he thought it was a foul but decided to throw up the ball after taking exception to something an Armagh player did.
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2023, 12:02:13 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2023, 10:02:21 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2023, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 01, 2023, 09:42:24 PM
Tbf to that ref the shoulder that turbitt got which initially looked like a foul he called absolutely right and armagh would have won had he given it. I think most refs would have called it wrong too.
It wasn't a foul and kudos to Conor for spotting that but why the throwball decision when Monaghan had gained possession of the ball?
I thought at the time it was a fair, if hard, hit. Seen the video there and while I've, wrongly, seen them given Lane got that one right
Yes but why then did Conor Lane not give a free out to Monaghan, what was the reason for the throw ball decision?
What I saw was Conor wasn't sure either way if it was a definite foul or a good shoulder and decided to throw up the ball between two players (with 20 others in close proximity). Or the only other circumstance was that he thought it was a foul but decided to throw up the ball after taking exception to something an Armagh player did.
No idea mate. I don't like trying to second guess refs these days
I'M not sure if this should be in the wtf thead or this ref one
https://twitter.com/GAA__JOE/status/1675405676963667969
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 02, 2023, 07:34:19 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on July 02, 2023, 01:10:49 AM
Going on the fair today gaelic football is in serious bother. People can laugh and joke at Armagh and their supporters but the last couple of years they have brought numbers to matches. That will soon change if the fare on show continues to be so poor. Look at Tyrone. They used to have a massive support. The football they served up for years now means the local country GAA club could host their games.
As I endured that game which obviously got very tense and exciting as it dragged on I thought it should be taken and examined by the rules committee or whatever the team charged with looking after the future of the game is called, as it had great examples of everything that is ruining the game of Gaelic football.
I'm not trying to rain on Monaghan's parade and Christ knows Derry v cork might not be easy in the eye later, but that was a hard watch.
Ref got a number of calls wrong, but it's not an easy gig, particularly when teams are as negative as they were today.
The black card needs looked at anyway, it should be expanded from the very narrow range it currently applies to. There were totally cynical play stopping tackles in abundance today, any time football looked like breaking out someone wrestled the man with the ball to the ground or held him up until the cavalry arrived.
Did I see that Armagh had 2 wides today? Could that be right, 16 odd shots in 90/100 mins? Virtually no goal threat from either team in that time, 11 of 28 scores from frees. Totally stop start with no flow at all.
I've said it before, we need to make rule changes to remove the negative options, the fear of losing means teams will take the safest option until that is no longer an option.
This game, a selection of rossie games, a few recent ulster finals, any number of senior club championship games up and down the country should be used to obtain the evidence of the problems and come up with rules countering them or we're not going to have something that spectators want to watch or that players are going to want to play.
90% of what you've typed has nothing to do with refereeing?
I know, figured it'd be better on another thread, but phone typing can be tough on this site!
I've sympathy for refs, thankless gig, I'm sure they go out with best intentions and get it in the ear on a personal level from all sides. Not helped by players and the shenanigans that go on off the ball, the cynical play and prescriptive rules like the black card which is laughably specific!!
I have, as much as anyone, criticised referees over the years. Then a friend of mine broke through as an inter county referee and a year or two ago he was involved in a controversy where he didn't award a mark that he should have. He got severely abused on the pitch, on the line after the match in the media and social media. I asked him what happened. He said it was a dirty wet day, both teams playing 15 behind the ball and at the time 28 players in one half of the field. The lines on the pitch weren't great either and we're hard to see from any distance. Ball was kicked in and he couldn't tell where it was kicked from. He asked his linesman and he said he didn't see either as he was distracted by 2 lads wrestling on the ground off the ball. So he made wrong call. Point is, it is not easy at all and you've pretty limited help to make correct decision. You've one look at it. We've lads on here after watching 20 replays arguing over whether something was a free or not!
Joe McQuillan playing with Derry here...
McQuillan consistently favours favourites / profile. I'm sure it's subconscious...
Bullshit lads. Nothing worth talking about in this ref wise. Cork can't tackle or shoot.
Cork look like a team that were happy to make the QFs and no get beat badly.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 02, 2023, 02:56:40 PM
McQuillan consistently favours favourites / profile. I'm sure it's subconscious...
I was thinking that myself
It would be interesting to do an experiment where you show clips to referees and members of the GAA public and ask them the decision. See what sort of agreement rate there is with the predefined "correct" decision.
IMO the rulebook needs to be scrapped and rewritten from scratch. There are too many ambiguities and grey areas, not to mention additions every couple of years to try and shape how the game is played.
Referees have a very difficult job and I think if people were to see how difficult it is from this type of experiment they would have more sympathy for them. Never going to happen though.
The in house course at the start of the year, certainly at club level, consists of clips of games were calls are given or not given and the room is asked what they feel should have been given, it's never a universal yes that's a foul or that's a yellow or black. Rules tests are carried out and at intercounty level they've to reach a pass of 95% or something like that.
But the ref during play gets one go in a split second in the position he's at, whereas Joe Public expert ref gets multiple views in slow mo from his armchair with no pressure with no 80,000 people watching!!
Seems simple now?
Would be good to have a retired ref in the studio to tell the "experts" about the rules of the game. BT do it on the soccer.
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Would be good to have a retired ref in the studio to tell the "experts" about the rules of the game. BT do it on the soccer.
I'm still ref'ing so not available ;D
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Would be good to have a retired ref in the studio to tell the "experts" about the rules of the game. BT do it on the soccer.
BBC had Maurice Deighan on for the Ulster final and it was downright awful at best
Quote from: Ghost on July 02, 2023, 05:02:22 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Would be good to have a retired ref in the studio to tell the "experts" about the rules of the game. BT do it on the soccer.
BBC had Maurice Deighan on for the Ulster final and it was downright awful at best
Yeah in fairness it wasn't great lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2023, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 02, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Would be good to have a retired ref in the studio to tell the "experts" about the rules of the game. BT do it on the soccer.
I'm still ref'ing so not available ;D
I'm sure the u12s wouldn't mind a bit of a break from the rule book dictator, ;D
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-gaa-time-keeping-as-very-difficult-to-take-after-all-ireland-defeat-to-monaghan/a567407047.html
I'd agree with Geezer here. It's mind boggling how a time clock still hasn't been brought in for men's football. It's one of the easiest things to fix yet we still don't use it.
The only way anyone could agree with McGEeney on this is they also agree that when a team defending a one point lead in injury time should legitimately be able to protect that lead and use up all remaining time, by laying claim to a head injury.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 02, 2023, 06:13:09 PM
The only way anyone could agree with McGEeney on this is they also agree that when a team defending a one point lead in injury time should legitimately be able to protect that lead and use up all remaining time, by laying claim to a head injury.
Would clock not be stopped for injuries
Quote from: Throw ball on July 02, 2023, 06:26:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 02, 2023, 06:13:09 PM
The only way anyone could agree with McGEeney on this is they also agree that when a team defending a one point lead in injury time should legitimately be able to protect that lead and use up all remaining time, by laying claim to a head injury.
Would clock not be stopped for injuries
It could have course be used and would help.
It wouldn't though stop managers whining about timekeeping. Some of the time they'll want the clock stopped on impact. Other times they'll want it stopped only once the physio reaches the player. Then there'll be complaints about referees choosing not to stop the clock for short stoppages. Others will ruefully muse that the clock should stop between scores and restarts.
See, this would all happen because all too many GAA steadfastly refuse to accept that they've been beaten by a better team on the day, which of course makes the referee the most likely target.
Until that cultural issue is cleaned up, then TBH I'd recommend that HQ ignore pleas from intercounty managers, for these men don't want consistency, integrity and honesty. They just want every coin toss to come up in their favour.
No one is happy or you can't please everyone..
Game the other night, I decided to tally the frees, game was tight few frees here and there, at the end a lad came over and was complaining about his team not getting any frees!
I flipped over the page and explained his team won more frees in the game, and by a good margin, wasn't good enough, said I gave them frees in non areas!!
See, you can never win with gurnny losers ;D
We can all agree gouge influenced the result today?
Just after seeing that properly for the first time, never a black card. Also noticed Rafferty being fouled 3 times carrying the ball out, all arguably more obvious than the free for McManus yet nothing given and Monaghan get a point as a result.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 02, 2023, 06:09:13 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-blasts-gaa-time-keeping-as-very-difficult-to-take-after-all-ireland-defeat-to-monaghan/a567407047.html
I'd agree with Geezer here. It's mind boggling how a time clock still hasn't been brought in for men's football. It's one of the easiest things to fix yet we still don't use it.
Was he asked about shouldering the Monaghan player? Trust he gets the ban he deserves.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 02, 2023, 11:07:46 PM
Just after seeing that properly for the first time, never a black card. Also noticed Rafferty being fouled 3 times carrying the ball out, all arguably more obvious than the free for McManus yet nothing given and Monaghan get a point as a result.
I know refereeing is a thankless task, but it's really frustrating when rules aren't applied consistently. Did any of the Monaghan players even get yellow carded? I suppose it doesn't matter in the end, Armagh had their chances to win it and didn't take them, Monaghan did.
Gough give out a black card earlier in the season outsude the square for a last man scoring opportunity m, surely that was a even more obvious situation with the McGuigan penalty the day.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 02, 2023, 10:59:56 PM
Having said that, I just saw the Monaghan black card. Not sure what he thinks he saw.
I was sitting in Davin End with Monaghan supporters and we all thought black card was right in real time. Shows the rule - as written - is stupid. It looked like a deliberate trip. TV replays suggest otherwise.
There is a question about consistency. Yesterday, in the Armagh-Monaghan game at the throw in Lane made the players stand together. Today, in the Derry-Cork game, Glass was 2-3m from the centre line and McQuillan had no problem with that. Not the most important thing, but why the difference?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 03, 2023, 12:08:53 AM
There is a question about consistency. Yesterday, in the Armagh-Monaghan game at the throw in Lane made the players stand together. Today, in the Derry-Cork game, Glass was 2-3m from the centre line and McQuillan had no problem with that. Not the most important thing, but why the difference?
In Armagh game, Lane
tried to do that (for some reason!) - didn't succeed! Trying to assert his authority, I feel. He had a good game overall though.
Quote from: restorepride on July 03, 2023, 11:36:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 03, 2023, 12:08:53 AM
There is a question about consistency. Yesterday, in the Armagh-Monaghan game at the throw in Lane made the players stand together. Today, in the Derry-Cork game, Glass was 2-3m from the centre line and McQuillan had no problem with that. Not the most important thing, but why the difference?
In Armagh game, Lane tried to do that (for some reason!) - didn't succeed! Trying to assert his authority, I feel. He had a good game overall though.
I'm sorry, we could stand for hours waiting on everyone to stay in position, it doesn't happen as everyone crowds in, just throw it up and get on with it
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Glad to see Sean Hurson take my idea on board today.
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Glad to see Sean Hurson take my idea on board today.
As if there is never anyone in his ear like! Keep up ffs!!!
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Glad to see Sean Hurson take my idea on board today.
As if there is never anyone in his ear like! Keep up ffs!!!
I'm trying to keep up but you'll have to try about harder to explain what you are saying.
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:22:02 PM
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Did you watch the game today? A 45 was awarded incorrectly to Dublin by umpire, ref gave it. Big screen showed replay and crowd booed, ref over turned it. If some official had of microphoned to him he wouldn't have awarded it in the 1st place and anyway there was no way anyone else could've seen it. Ref got it right by an official version of VAR.
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 01, 2023, 09:51:21 PM
If I were a ref in Croke Park, for a big call if go having fake chats with umpires and lineman but I'd sneak a look at the replay on the big screen to see the craic. If Lol lane did that he'd have saw it wasn't black and barely a foul.
Glad to see Sean Hurson take my idea on board today.
[/quote
Good call Itchy.
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:22:02 PM
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Did you watch the game today? A 45 was awarded incorrectly to Dublin by umpire, ref gave it. Big screen showed replay and crowd booed, ref over turned it. If some official had of microphoned to him he wouldn't have awarded it in the 1st place and anyway there was no way anyone else could've seen it. Ref got it right by an official version of VAR.
But lets not give the ref a free pass, he should've call a foul on McCaffrey? who had taken about 12 steps before tossing the ball over the end line.
Quote from: Main Street on July 16, 2023, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:22:02 PM
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Did you watch the game today? A 45 was awarded incorrectly to Dublin by umpire, ref gave it. Big screen showed replay and crowd booed, ref over turned it. If some official had of microphoned to him he wouldn't have awarded it in the 1st place and anyway there was no way anyone else could've seen it. Ref got it right by an official version of VAR.
But lets not give the ref a free pass, he should've call a foul on McCaffrey? who had taken about 12 steps before tossing the ball over the end line.
He made many mistake no doubt but it was one of best referee performances of the year I thought. He got the big calls all correct
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 09:00:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 16, 2023, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:22:02 PM
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Did you watch the game today? A 45 was awarded incorrectly to Dublin by umpire, ref gave it. Big screen showed replay and crowd booed, ref over turned it. If some official had of microphoned to him he wouldn't have awarded it in the 1st place and anyway there was no way anyone else could've seen it. Ref got it right by an official version of VAR.
But lets not give the ref a free pass, he should've call a foul on McCaffrey? who had taken about 12 steps before tossing the ball over the end line.
He made many mistake no doubt but it was one of best referee performances of the year I thought. He got the big calls all correct
Dublin got 2 frees in the first half that were not frees. They got scores from them. Those are massive calls in a game so close. I'm also not convinced o'hanlon lifted that ball off the ground and the whole game swung on that decision.
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Having just looked at it i think not. He should have put his toe under it to be safe but for me the ball was off the ground. Barely off it but thats all it needs to be
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 09:00:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on July 16, 2023, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 15, 2023, 11:25:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:22:02 PM
Referees are informed through the earpiece, same as umpires who don't really make the call re Hawkeye. Earpiece tells them, if required.
Did you watch the game today? A 45 was awarded incorrectly to Dublin by umpire, ref gave it. Big screen showed replay and crowd booed, ref over turned it. If some official had of microphoned to him he wouldn't have awarded it in the 1st place and anyway there was no way anyone else could've seen it. Ref got it right by an official version of VAR.
But lets not give the ref a free pass, he should've call a foul on McCaffrey? who had taken about 12 steps before tossing the ball over the end line.
He made many mistake no doubt but it was one of best referee performances of the year I thought. He got the big calls all correct
He got most of the big calls correct, Mohan's was one of the big calls which he got totally wrong. but it was all the little calls awarding Dublin soft scorable frees, giving the benefit of the doubt to the dubs with Monaghan on the attack, those little calls overall (made to both teams) were worth about 4 points to the Dubs.
I don't think Monaghan had enough in any event but it would have been nice to see Dublin put to the pin of their collar right up to the last minute.
Why do refs blow like gobshites all year and then come an AISF you have to 'earn' your frees, it's balls.
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Derry weren't given a 45 near the end of the game. Was clear as day the Kerry lad got the boot to it
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
The ref should just sit in the stand, better still on the sofa..
The added minutes at the end was unreal. Derry were handed a lifeline.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Derry weren't given a 45 near the end of the game. Was clear as day the Kerry lad got the boot to it
Kerry lad got a boot to it but it went off Glass's hands after - unless the Kerry player managed to defy the laws of physics with his kick.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 16, 2023, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Derry weren't given a 45 near the end of the game. Was clear as day the Kerry lad got the boot to it
Kerry lad got a boot to it but it went off Glass's hands after - unless the Kerry player managed to defy the laws of physics with his kick.
Exactly what it was...
Kerry getting a lot of big calls in games
Penalty against Cork
Referee failure to give Jack Barry second yellow
Soft frees yesterday and failure to penalise Shane Ryan for charge. Targeting opposition key players Conor Meyler, Shane McGuigan . We'll probably see Jack Barry hanging out of Brian Fenton for final. Are referee intimated by the kerry/yerra brigade?
For the dumb Kerry p***k on here who doesn't understand the rules, how many subs were made in injury time, how long was McKinless down injured. These get added on.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 17, 2023, 08:05:44 PM
For the dumb Kerry p***k on here who doesn't understand the rules, how many subs were made in injury time, how long was McKinless down injured. These get added on.
Yeah the time allocated was correct
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 06:11:06 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
The ref should just sit in the stand, better still on the sofa..
I don't care of he sits in Timbuktu as long as he gets the basic calls right.
Most refs get at least 2 or 3 wrong in every big game.
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 17, 2023, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 06:11:06 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
The ref should just sit in the stand, better still on the sofa..
I don't care of he sits in Timbuktu as long as he gets the basic calls right.
Most refs get at least 2 or 3 wrong in every big game.
So why are people shocked? Most players make 2 or 3 mistakes a game, it's the nature of sport.
People thought VAR would solve soccer, it hasn't
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 17, 2023, 08:05:44 PM
For the dumb Kerry p***k on here who doesn't understand the rules, how many subs were made in injury time, how long was McKinless down injured. These get added on.
Sad...
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It was really tight but i think he did catch it on a (small) bounce. I blame the player more for not putting his toe behind it just to remove the doubt but it was a massive call for the ref to give at that time. Dublin scored the free and pushed on.
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It wasn't tight. Monaghan lost by 7 points.
Quote from: straightred on July 17, 2023, 11:47:45 PM
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It was really tight but i think he did catch it on a (small) bounce. I blame the player more for not putting his toe behind it just to remove the doubt but it was a massive call for the ref to give at that time. Dublin scored the free and pushed on.
Is there any clip of this doing the rounds at the time i though he touched it on the ground?
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 18, 2023, 08:02:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on July 17, 2023, 11:47:45 PM
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It was really tight but i think he did catch it on a (small) bounce. I blame the player more for not putting his toe behind it just to remove the doubt but it was a massive call for the ref to give at that time. Dublin scored the free and pushed on.
Is there any clip of this doing the rounds at the time i though he touched it on the ground?
The ball was bouncing but it looked like he put the hands on the ball as it was on the ground, when he maybe could have put his hands under and let it bounce up. A split second decision made by a tired player, I doubt he'd have gave the ref a decision to make if it was early in the game.
Quote from: straightred on July 17, 2023, 11:47:45 PM
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It was really tight but i think he did catch it on a (small) bounce. I blame the player more for not putting his toe behind it just to remove the doubt but it was a massive call for the ref to give at that time. Dublin scored the free and pushed on.
As a referee doing a lot of underage games I insist 100% on striking the handpass, toe under the ball, steps rule. The basics. Managers, parents and players absolutely hate it and shout for leniency on the details all the time. The call against O'Hanlon was a good reminder why we need to keep young lads focussed on these things.
Remove any doubt.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 16, 2023, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Derry weren't given a 45 near the end of the game. Was clear as day the Kerry lad got the boot to it
Kerry lad got a boot to it but it went off Glass's hands after - unless the Kerry player managed to defy the laws of physics with his kick.
What chance have referees got when you have us gobshites arguing on the internet, not even able to agree with the benefit of tv replays?
And post after post dissecting whether or not a ball was lifted off the ground.
Quote from: J70 on July 18, 2023, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 16, 2023, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:07:32 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
We need VAR in big championship games. Refs get so many calls wrong it's beyond a joke
Derry weren't given a 45 near the end of the game. Was clear as day the Kerry lad got the boot to it
Kerry lad got a boot to it but it went off Glass's hands after - unless the Kerry player managed to defy the laws of physics with his kick.
What chance have referees got when you have us gobshites arguing on the internet, not even able to agree with the benefit of tv replays?
And post after post dissecting whether or not a ball was lifted off the ground.
That's a fair point.
Without going into specifics of isolated frees, I felt that over the 2 SF games, Hurson had a much more consistent application of the rules the Joe McQ did.
Hurson at the moment I think is the best ref in the country for consistency and application of the rules.
For some of the others, the exact same foul quite often warrants different action from the ref. Joe McQ is particular guilty of this imo.
It's a thankless job, and the nature of the rules make it really difficult to do well.
But it's incredibly frustrating as a fan/player/manager to have a ref blow a free for a specific foul against one team, then let it go for the other within the same game a short period of time later.
I'd rather he got it wrong all of the time, than right some of the time I think.
I do think all of the issues we have with referees come down to consistently applying the same rule all of the time during a game. Take steps for example, if the ref is rightly blowing players up for taking too many steps then they need to do it for all players all of the time. If he blows one player up for too many steps, then lets the next go, that's where frustration comes in and the inevitable remonstrations with/against referees.
I don't know if this happens, but I wonder does a ref have a brief chat with each team at intercounty level to say how he's going to apply rules? Tight on steps, pickups, arm drags etc? Or is that just something teams have to feel their way into during a game?
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
Can Refs please clamp down on the frees from the hand being taken from the wrong place? Especially the farce of metres stealing when going for a score.
It's as big a joke as the Hurley throw passes.
If we can't copy "another code" can't the ref at least mark it with his foot and linesman police it.
Come on CCCC and Refs Committee, time to stamp it out.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 18, 2023, 11:51:52 AM
Can Refs please clamp down on the frees from the hand being taken from the wrong place? Especially the farce of metres stealing when going for a score.
It's as big a joke as the Hurley throw passes.
If we can't copy "another code" can't the ref at least mark it with his foot and linesman police it.
Come on CCCC and Refs Committee, time to stamp it out.
Cue the "referee marked the wrong spot for the free" complaints! ;)
Quote from: manwithnoplan on July 18, 2023, 08:39:33 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 18, 2023, 08:02:25 AM
Quote from: straightred on July 17, 2023, 11:47:45 PM
Quote from: Gold on July 17, 2023, 09:21:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 16, 2023, 10:45:30 AM
O Hanlon definitely lifted it off the ground. Monaghan lost due to running out of steam with 10 to go while Dublin were bringing on top class players as subs. Tough to take but zero to do with the ref.
Ball was off the ground.
Absolutely changed the game in a game so tight.
It was really tight but i think he did catch it on a (small) bounce. I blame the player more for not putting his toe behind it just to remove the doubt but it was a massive call for the ref to give at that time. Dublin scored the free and pushed on.
Is there any clip of this doing the rounds at the time i though he touched it on the ground?
The ball was bouncing but it looked like he put the hands on the ball as it was on the ground, when he maybe could have put his hands under and let it bounce up. A split second decision made by a tired player, I doubt he'd have gave the ref a decision to make if it was early in the game.
Yeah that it what i though as well it was a correct call.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
Quote from: Rawhide on July 18, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
How do you think it is a foul? No way is that a foul. What do you want the player to do in that situation? Just let the Derry player take the ball and not go for the ball himself??
Ball was there to be won, kerry keeper jumped and won the ball, it was unfortunate that mcguigan was standing in his way and got clattered.
Quote from: samuel maguire on July 18, 2023, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on July 18, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
How do you think it is a foul? No way is that a foul. What do you want the player to do in that situation? Just let the Derry player take the ball and not go for the ball himself??
Ball was there to be won, kerry keeper jumped and won the ball, it was unfortunate that mcguigan was standing in his way and got clattered.
its onoe of those where if it goes for your team youre adamant its a finel.If it goes against your team its a foul
As has been mentioned on here a few times, it's quite normal practice for a GAA person to simultaneously hold opposing opinions on the intent, ferocity and legality of every challenge they see, with the slant determined by what colour of jerseys are on show.
Then they're so f**king ferociously righteous about their contradictory opinions.
Fuelled by a media that behaves in the same way.
Our referees have no chance.
——
There's an absolutely wonderful sport that uses a similar ball to our own, freely available for people who don't like contact sports, and for people who want to pariah referees. Why can't you all just f**k off over there?
Quote from: samuel maguire on July 18, 2023, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on July 18, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
How do you think it is a foul? No way is that a foul. What do you want the player to do in that situation? Just let the Derry player take the ball and not go for the ball himself??
Ball was there to be won, kerry keeper jumped and won the ball, it was unfortunate that mcguigan was standing in his way and got clattered.
Not only was it a foul it was a dangerous tackle warranting a red.
You could see the keeper watching Mcguigan and deliberately turn his hip to him connecting with his head. If he had maintained the direction he was travelling, with the ball, he'd have brushed past mcguigan en-route with no foul and no injury - and could still have got his score.
It was as deliberate an attempt to take out a player as you'll ever see.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 18, 2023, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: samuel maguire on July 18, 2023, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on July 18, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
How do you think it is a foul? No way is that a foul. What do you want the player to do in that situation? Just let the Derry player take the ball and not go for the ball himself??
Ball was there to be won, kerry keeper jumped and won the ball, it was unfortunate that mcguigan was standing in his way and got clattered.
Not only was it a foul it was a dangerous tackle warranting a red.
You could see the keeper watching Mcguigan and deliberately turn his hip to him connecting with his head. If he had maintained the direction he was travelling, with the ball, he'd have brushed past mcguigan en-route with no foul and no injury - and could still have got his score.
It was as deliberate an attempt to take out a player as you'll ever see.
You're putting a lot of context to a slow motion replay. There's very little time in real life to jump, catch the ball and change direction in mid air as some people said he did. It came from a poor pass between him and McGuigan. It wasn't a foul in my book but in todays game it could of definitely been given the other way.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 18, 2023, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: samuel maguire on July 18, 2023, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on July 18, 2023, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 11:22:47 AM
That's the nature of sport and there will always be right and wrong decisions made by refs and always fans and even neutrals with different views on decisions. Some think Hurson is a great ref and some think he's brutal.
I have watched the incident with Kerry keeper Ryan hitting McGuigan with his backside several times now and I still can't make my mind up whether it's a foul or not.
With every incident I always try to look at it through the other person's eyes or how would I feel if the same thing happened to ne of our players.
I think it would do no harm for the GAA to try to educate fans in some way about how hard a job it is to referee a match, how they only get a second to make their mind up with no replays and that they try their best to not show any bias to one team over another. A lot of fans have never played the game or fully understand the rules.
On another note, is it time to follow other sports and let refs use the camera action to make a decisive call when they're not sure. Making mistakes is part of the game but would people prefer that to the ref stopping the game and looking for advice from another ref watching it on TV where he is more likely to make the right call, even if it takes a bit more time?
Obviously that can only happen in the bigger televised matches and not in club games etc.
Imagine the impact of that? Louth could have another Leinster title. Derry might be in an AI final. ;)
staggering, if you don't realise thats a stone wall foul.
How do you think it is a foul? No way is that a foul. What do you want the player to do in that situation? Just let the Derry player take the ball and not go for the ball himself??
Ball was there to be won, kerry keeper jumped and won the ball, it was unfortunate that mcguigan was standing in his way and got clattered.
Not only was it a foul it was a dangerous tackle warranting a red.
You could see the keeper watching Mcguigan and deliberately turn his hip to him connecting with his head. If he had maintained the direction he was travelling, with the ball, he'd have brushed past mcguigan en-route with no foul and no injury - and could still have got his score.
It was as deliberate an attempt to take out a player as you'll ever see.
And in many other sports this would be revisited in video analysis and dealt with in retrospect .
It didn't cost Derry the game but this kind of deliberate aggression could have far greater consequences than a place in a final.
He did not have to turn into mc guigan he chose to.
I'm sort of swaying on this, as I've only watched the slow mo replay of this and its not great, in real time I was impressed with the catch and how committed he was for a 50/50 ball, in the case sometimes one person is less committed in a 50/50 and they generally come out worse.
If that was my club player in a game at the pitch and he carried out that catch and scored I'd be cheering from the rooftops, and the same goes for every Derry man if that was one of their club/county players had they done the same, there would not be one person on here saying their own player deserves a red card
I was in the bar Sunday evening for a bite, on the way home and was fortunate for a current senior county ref who has done senior championship games to call in. He had been at the game and the Sunday game was on the Telly. He said, and I will quote him 'absolutely a free and a minimum yellow card for rough play. Joe definitely had a good enough view to at least award a free out to Derry'
My reply was 'how does a ref at that level not know that when I did', his reply 'I don't think a free and further sanction should have been missed in that position with a clear view 20 yards away' he also said that was his view during the game, the replay on TV confirmed his analysis.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 02:28:00 PM
I'm sort of swaying on this, as I've only watched the slow mo replay of this and its not great, in real time I was impressed with the catch and how committed he was for a 50/50 ball, in the case sometimes one person is less committed in a 50/50 and they generally come out worse.
If that was my club player in a game at the pitch and he carried out that catch and scored I'd be cheering from the rooftops, and the same goes for every Derry man if that was one of their club/county players had they done the same, there would not be one person on here saying their own player deserves a red card
So you would be of the opinion Frank Burns should not have seen red in the Galway game.?
The thing is, it wasn't a 50/50 ball. It always favoured Ryan. McGuigan had almost stopped completely. He wasn't going to compete with the Ryan, more like he was going to try and hold him up, once the keeper collected it.
As well as that, Ryan didn't have to leave the ground to catch the ball. He jumped to collect the ball in his midriff. If he'd just taken the ball on the run, he would've been round McGuigan fairly quickly with the pace he was approaching it. He knew exactly what he was doing.
I'd agree with MR2 that in the heat of a competitive match with both teams with a lot at stake, most fans will be delighted with
their own man winning such a catch and taking out the other team's best player in the process. Imagine if it had of been Glass hitting Clifford instead.
One of the commentators or someone used the well known term, the keeper took man, ball and all.
We often here this term used for when keepers come out to punch the ball away and it seems to be accepted that if the keeper gets the ball first then it doesn't matter what happens afterwards.
When watching it back you can see Ryan firstly eyeing the ball and when he knew he was going to catch it, he then eyed up McGuigan. He had to make a split second decision to make, Do I land face forward and maybe drop the ball or do I turn my backside and try to knock him over with my momentum.
Had he JUST turned his back you could say he was trying to shield the ball but if you look carefully he actually bends over and sticks his backside out so it looked like he was trying to hit McGuigan hard with his follow through.
Bearing in mind how Kerry seemed to be targetting McGuigan the whole game you could be forgiven for thinking that this was one of those times where you can "do" a man in a so called 50/50 challenge.
So i've come full circle in this incident myself and think the ref got it wrong but as we all know it's a tough one to call so quickly.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 04:07:28 PM
I'd agree with MR2 that in the heat of a competitive match with both teams with a lot at stake, most fans will be delighted with
their own man winning such a catch and taking out the other team's best player in the process. Imagine if it had of been Glass hitting Clifford instead.
One of the commentators or someone used the well known term, the keeper took man, ball and all.
We often here this term used for when keepers come out to punch the ball away and it seems to be accepted that if the keeper gets the ball first then it doesn't matter what happens afterwards.
When watching it back you can see Ryan firstly eyeing the ball and when he knew he was going to catch it, he then eyed up McGuigan. He had to make a split second decision to make, Do I land face forward and maybe drop the ball or do I turn my backside and try to knock him over with my momentum.
Had he JUST turned his back you could say he was trying to shield the ball but if you look carefully he actually bends over and sticks his backside out so it looked like he was trying to hit McGuigan hard with his follow through.
Bearing in mind how Kerry seemed to be targetting McGuigan the whole game you could be forgiven for thinking that this was one of those times where you can "do" a man in a so called 50/50 challenge.
So i've come full circle in this incident myself and think the ref got it wrong but as we all know it's a tough one to call so quickly.
It's always a Brucie bonus if you could take the man as well as the ball, although I did have a referee tell me recently that you have to have a duty of care to your opponent allegedly, so I can see it both ways.
If big Glass or Chrissy McKeague had buried his arse into Clifford in a similar manner and won the game, they'd get the freedom of the whole of Derry.
Refs are also under so much scrutiny now, slow motion etc etc when they've one split second to see the incident and make a call within a second or so at whatever angle they happen to be at at that exact moment FFS, cut the lad some slack.
I despair at how many posters aren't clear that it was a foul, and a dangerous foul at that
Quote from: johnnycool on July 18, 2023, 04:19:55 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 04:07:28 PM
I'd agree with MR2 that in the heat of a competitive match with both teams with a lot at stake, most fans will be delighted with
their own man winning such a catch and taking out the other team's best player in the process. Imagine if it had of been Glass hitting Clifford instead.
One of the commentators or someone used the well known term, the keeper took man, ball and all.
We often here this term used for when keepers come out to punch the ball away and it seems to be accepted that if the keeper gets the ball first then it doesn't matter what happens afterwards.
When watching it back you can see Ryan firstly eyeing the ball and when he knew he was going to catch it, he then eyed up McGuigan. He had to make a split second decision to make, Do I land face forward and maybe drop the ball or do I turn my backside and try to knock him over with my momentum.
Had he JUST turned his back you could say he was trying to shield the ball but if you look carefully he actually bends over and sticks his backside out so it looked like he was trying to hit McGuigan hard with his follow through.
Bearing in mind how Kerry seemed to be targetting McGuigan the whole game you could be forgiven for thinking that this was one of those times where you can "do" a man in a so called 50/50 challenge.
So i've come full circle in this incident myself and think the ref got it wrong but as we all know it's a tough one to call so quickly.
It's always a Brucie bonus if you could take the man as well as the ball, although I did have a referee tell me recently that you have to have a duty of care to your opponent allegedly, so I can see it both ways.
If big Glass or Chrissy McKeague had buried his arse into Clifford in a similar manner and won the game, they'd get the freedom of the whole of Derry.
I can see it both ways TBH.
Refs are also under so much scrutiny now, slow motion etc etc when they've one split second to see the incident and make a call within a second or so at whatever angle they happen to be at at that exact moment FFS, cut the lad some slack.
That term is coming in a lot recently, I've used it too a few times, and we do have a duty of care in relation to our actions on the pitch, either on purpose or accidently, but with regards to the match, I seen the catch, guy goes down, he runs up and scores, its only when I looked back that the lad is in a heap! But as a supporter I don't know anyone that would say their own players deserves a red for that!
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
It looked to me like once he was in the air he knew a collision was coming and wanted to make sure that it was the most well padded bit of this body that took the hit,
It was a free any day of the week, any referee in any game would have given it ... with the exception of Joe McQuillan on Sunday. It will cost Joe any chance that he may have had to referee the All Ireland Final, and rightly so. Yes, its a difficult game to referee, yes, refs are amateurs etc. etc. all of that doesn't matter a damn, Joe wasn't up to some of the big calls on Sunday and that's that. More so, time keeping needs to be removed from the ref asap, they've enough to be doing never mind timekeeping ... and they should have no right to dictate additional time at their discretion beyond normal and injury time. This allowing one more play to try to balance out earlier mistakes is making a mockery of the game, and Sunday wasn't the only example of it this year.
Most semi final referees don't get finals.. has he done one before? He'll not be too bothered if he has
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Most semi final referees don't get finals.. has he done one before? He'll not be too bothered if he has
He's done quite a few I reckon at this stage.
Sean Hurson is prob the foremost ref. in the country at the min imo.
FFS such a bit of yapping about1/2 incidents over an 80+ minute game, if Derry want to be considered big time they need to act it, at present their fans on here and nothing more than yapping babies, ye had more than enough chances to win the game and scored 4 points in 40 mins in the second half, but yeah its Joe's fault #findascapegoat
Would I be right in saying you did a semi and final last year in the same competition MR2? Suppose it helps to have friends in Hannahstown ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Most semi final referees don't get finals.. has he done one before? He'll not be too bothered if he has
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
I'm not too sure about that. Looked like a tackle and tired pass to me.
50/50 one I think.
Quote from: Would ye whist on July 19, 2023, 01:25:27 PM
FFS such a bit of yapping about1/2 incidents over an 80+ minute game, if Derry want to be considered big time they need to act it, at present their fans on here and nothing more than yapping babies, ye had more than enough chances to win the game and scored 4 points in 40 mins in the second half, but yeah its Joe's fault #findascapegoat
I dont think anyone has said the reason we lost the game was the ref.
We had enough chances to win the game even with the ref giving away a few scores to Kerry.
He could have, imo, sent off the Kerry keeper. Now that could have been a game changer, but we'll never know.
And as has been well documented in the media and by people on here, he certainly awarded frees incorrectly to Kerry in the 2nd half in particular and those were momentum changes.
Now if he hadn't made those mistakes, it's still only debatable if Derry would have won - but we would have had a better fairer chance at winning.
The reality is there were a number of factors contributing to the Kerry win, 2 of those were Derry missing some scores and the ref making some mistakes.
And for what it's worth, the yellow card on clifford was a mistake AND I dont have any issue with CMK getting a yellow for persistent fouling.
But the Kerry fullback should also have had an early yellow for persistent fouling.
Consistency is what you want from a ref, and he was not consistent, even in comparison to Hurson in the other game.
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 19, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Can't comment on that one but the only way to fix what you are getting at is to make the game non-contact.
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 20, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 19, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Can't comment on that one but the only way to fix what you are getting at is to make the game non-contact.
You are all over the place here.
Rogers claim should not be a free because the spirit of the game says its s contact sport and rough house play is to be expected?
S O' Shea's free , look i wont comment on that one because it would show up my bias. You are fooling no one.
All any supporter wants in any game is consistent application of the rules within the 70 minutes of that game.
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 20, 2023, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 20, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 19, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Can't comment on that one but the only way to fix what you are getting at is to make the game non-contact.
You are all over the place here.
Rogers claim should not be a free because the spirit of the game says its s contact sport and rough house play is to be expected?
S O' Shea's free , look i wont comment on that one because it would show up my bias. You are fooling no one.
All any supporter wants in any game is consistent application of the rules within the 70 minutes of that game.
I'm not trying to fool anyone everyone here is capable of making up their own mind.
The tackle in GAA is not easy to referee because in a split second it is not easy to see where contact has been made and similar tackles can be called different during a game. I had a back and forth with a referee on this very board who was saying you can't tackle using your fist but in his next post he said he wouldn't blow it as a free if contact is made with the ball!
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 10:30:16 AM
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
So would that not have applied when the Kerry keeper took mcguigan in the head with his hip mid air?
Goalkeeper had the ball so it wasn't a tackle.
It was either he turned to protect himself in a collision or it was rough (yellow) or dangerous (red) play.
You can't tackle the ball with a fist to the ribs, it was a free out simple. I rewatched the game 2 times, Derry left 2:05/6 behind them during the 2nd Half. Few things to note, Derry did not get 2 def frees during the game in a fairly scorable position. 4 of Kerry points were directly due to incorrect calls by the ref (6pt turnaround) The O'brien one is ridiculous, and the Goalkeeper one, I like a example where this happened previous and not a foul. That was a bad call. Derry beat themselves but the Ref kept Kerry in the game too. I hope the nxt time they met, Derry take a over physical approach as they got blown for too easy frees away. The score count for free in scorable position well over balanced in Kerry favour.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 20, 2023, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 10:30:16 AM
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
So would that not have applied when the Kerry keeper took mcguigan in the head with his hip mid air?
Collision and not a tackle in Joe's book by the looks of it, at the very least looking back and given the opportunity to call that again, he may have stopped it for a head injury.. Its been a very split topic, as ones at the club game last night were asking me on it, I probably would have played on if I'm being honest, that's just me.
There is a directive coming from Croke and all counties are getting another in house training session next week, will involve a lot of stuff we have already done no doubt but this is a positive and hopefully reinforce rules and the like
was just thinking is there many duel refs in gaa meaning they ref football and hurling.
Quote from: Eire90 on July 21, 2023, 10:04:01 AM
was just thinking is there many duel refs in gaa meaning they ref football and hurling.
Not at intercounty level but plenty of intercounty ref's from dual counties ref both at club level. Barry Kelly has done All Ireland finals and ref'd county football finals
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2023, 10:36:27 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 21, 2023, 10:04:01 AM
was just thinking is there many duel refs in gaa meaning they ref football and hurling.
Not at intercounty level but plenty of intercounty ref's from dual counties ref both at club level. Barry Kelly has done All Ireland finals and ref'd county football finals
He's probably the best football ref in Westmeath. Certainly top 3.
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 20, 2023, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 20, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 19, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Can't comment on that one but the only way to fix what you are getting at is to make the game non-contact.
You are all over the place here.
Rogers claim should not be a free because the spirit of the game says its s contact sport and rough house play is to be expected?
S O' Shea's free , look i wont comment on that one because it would show up my bias. You are fooling no one.
All any supporter wants in any game is consistent application of the rules within the 70 minutes of that game.
Rogers was punched twice, the second punch didn't make contact with the ball but affected Rogers' pass attempt causing it to fall short.
For whatever reason the ref saw it as playonable'. In a hectic passage of play, in one instant the ref made a mistake. However, it is the opinion of some that when the ref didn't call it as a foul, then there was no foul play, that at any given time in such like incidents the ref is infallible, unsighted or he can't be blowing up for every piece of physical contact.
Take the much lauded Hurson, McManus gets on the ball at half way line, is clearly pulled back on the shoulder, astonishingly a watching Hurson sees no foul, McManus then cuts inside the Dub's half and is hand battered simultaneously by 3 Dubs, again no foul. What Hurson should have done was play advantage from the first foul, then bring play back after the 2nd incident.
On consistency over the last 6 games I'd say Conor Lane was the most consistent with decisions made in the game and in an almost direct contrast with Joe who got it totally wrong on that shoulder charge incident, Conor got it half right with the shoulder by Mohan on O'Neill. The correct decision should've been a free out to Monaghan. Both refs could not have seen the shoulder charge contact. After much thought (GAAVAR consultation on the mike??) Conor probably accepted that he couldn't decide one way or the other and threw up the ball. Had Conor made the worst decision like Joe did and called a foul against Mohan, Armagh would have been in the semis. Of all the Croke Pk games that was the stand out best decision by a ref in the closing minutes of a game and it wasn't even the correct decision.
Those 2/3 poor decisions/calls pale into insignificance to the amount of poor calls decisions made by players/managers before a game and throughout the game.
But in a close game we (myself included) will seek out how the ref cost a team or lost the game or (best yet) caused a riot.
Ref's are far more under microscope than ever before, not sure why or if this is a new phenomenon, can't recall the in depth analysis of the man in the middle as much as it is
First look at Rodgers 'tackle' I thought it was a free then replay from other side thought it was tiredness on his part, again would need to look again. But ref gets one second to call or not
Quote from: Main Street on July 24, 2023, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 20, 2023, 08:15:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 20, 2023, 07:59:42 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 19, 2023, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 19, 2023, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Dabh on July 19, 2023, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2023, 05:32:47 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 18, 2023, 05:03:54 PM
Does the impact of a foul influence a referee?
I mean if someone is badly injured does it influence the ref to give a card?
When Rogers got a punch into the stomach near the end, would he have got a free if he went down holding his stomach which could convince the ref that he was indeed hit?
Rodgers (if memory serves me right) was going down as the hand was going in, there was the initial view where it look like he took a punch and the other, out of sheer exhaustion fumbled the ball with an attempted pass. Can't remember what Joe's positioning was at the time
watch it again ..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1680617372703391744)
12 secs
Rogers had just taken a solo, was turning back, no doubt looking to give a pass, had the ball protected in his chest with both hands when O'Sheas hand came in under the hands and ball and looks to have caught him in the stomach/midriff. Thats a foul.
& 33 secs will show it from the other side and you can see where Joe was positioned and what he saw. Could not have been in a better place.
Jeez lads there are tackles like that every game and no free given may aswell make the game non contact if a referee is going to be scrutinised on decisions like that.
And compared to the free given to S O' Shea, when Derry had turned the ball over in defence?
Can't comment on that one but the only way to fix what you are getting at is to make the game non-contact.
You are all over the place here.
Rogers claim should not be a free because the spirit of the game says its s contact sport and rough house play is to be expected?
S O' Shea's free , look i wont comment on that one because it would show up my bias. You are fooling no one.
All any supporter wants in any game is consistent application of the rules within the 70 minutes of that game.
Rogers was punched twice, the second punch didn't make contact with the ball but affected Rogers' pass attempt causing it to fall short.
For whatever reason the ref saw it as playonable'. In a hectic passage of play, in one instant the ref made a mistake. However, it is the opinion of some that when the ref didn't call it as a foul, then there was no foul play, that at any given time in such like incidents the ref is infallible, unsighted or he can't be blowing up for every piece of physical contact.
Take the much lauded Hurson, McManus gets on the ball at half way line, is clearly pulled back on the shoulder, astonishingly a watching Hurson sees no foul, McManus then cuts inside the Dub's half and is hand battered simultaneously by 3 Dubs, again no foul. What Hurson should have done was play advantage from the first foul, then bring play back after the 2nd incident.
On consistency over the last 6 games I'd say Conor Lane was the most consistent with decisions made in the game and in an almost direct contrast with Joe who got it totally wrong on that shoulder charge incident, Conor got it half right with the shoulder by Mohan on O'Neill. The correct decision should've been a free out to Monaghan. Both refs could not have seen the shoulder charge contact. After much thought (GAAVAR consultation on the mike??) Conor probably accepted that he couldn't decide one way or the other and threw up the ball. Had Conor made the worst decision like Joe did and called a foul against Mohan, Armagh would have been in the semis. Of all the Croke Pk games that was the stand out best decision by a ref in the closing minutes of a game and it wasn't even the correct decision.
Would challenge though lane's decision at the end of extra time
The game was up
Even at the free he intimated it was the last kick then allowed another set play
He played on to give Monaghan the chance to equalise
Quite sure if o Neill had scored the equalising point then he would have blown up at that stage
Although in an amateur sport I can understand his rationale as such
My view the best ref in the country is in charge of the final
There is a clear case for an LGFA style clock which means that the time keeping is clear to everyone and there is no scope for discussion on how long was allowed for this and that. In this day and age a remote clock with a button for the ref to stop it is perfectly technically possible for a range of games.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 24, 2023, 11:37:20 PM
There is a clear case for an LGFA style clock which means that the time keeping is clear to everyone and there is no scope for discussion on how long was allowed for this and that. In this day and age a remote clock with a button for the ref to stop it is perfectly technically possible for a range of games.
I don't know there is something sterile about the clock counting down and the winning team holding possession or the losing team tearing up the pitch and the hooter going off as they hit the half way line.
Rugby have the last play option which seems a bit more amicable.
Gough is probably the best and a good call by HQ to give him the final.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 20, 2023, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 10:30:16 AM
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
So would that not have applied when the Kerry keeper took mcguigan in the head with his hip mid air?
Collision and not a tackle in Joe's book by the looks of it, at the very least looking back and given the opportunity to call that again, he may have stopped it for a head injury.. Its been a very split topic, as ones at the club game last night were asking me on it, I probably would have played on if I'm being honest, that's just me.
There is a directive coming from Croke and all counties are getting another in house training session next week, will involve a lot of stuff we have already done no doubt but this is a positive and hopefully reinforce rules and the like
Just wanted to ask what the focus of the in-house training was MR2?
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 28, 2023, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 20, 2023, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 10:30:16 AM
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
So would that not have applied when the Kerry keeper took mcguigan in the head with his hip mid air?
Collision and not a tackle in Joe's book by the looks of it, at the very least looking back and given the opportunity to call that again, he may have stopped it for a head injury.. Its been a very split topic, as ones at the club game last night were asking me on it, I probably would have played on if I'm being honest, that's just me.
There is a directive coming from Croke and all counties are getting another in house training session next week, will involve a lot of stuff we have already done no doubt but this is a positive and hopefully reinforce rules and the like
Just wanted to ask what the focus of the in-house training was MR2?
Lots of attention on across the neck tackles. over the shoulder tackles frontal charges black card ... There was video analysis of certain games, obviously we questioned the Kerry keepers catch and collision with the Derry forward, 90% all said foul, no one said red card, not even the Derry assessor who took the session, the other 10%, old school view, he took ball man and all and if that was your club mate winning that outcome you'd be pissed off it was blown.
I think personally after the second watch, he should have stopped play for the collision, and slowly make his way to the incident to give himself time to reflect on what the call should be, those few seconds in the heat of that game would allow him to come to a better call
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 08:52:33 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 28, 2023, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 20, 2023, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2023, 10:30:16 AM
And thats the fine line of it.. Plenty tackles (and remember the only legal physical tackle is shoulder to shoulder BTW) in games and if a player catches the ball, because you can tackle the ball, though not rip from possession, if he connects cleanly with the ball via his fist then play on. Contact with a player with a fist is a yellow, if seen
So would that not have applied when the Kerry keeper took mcguigan in the head with his hip mid air?
Collision and not a tackle in Joe's book by the looks of it, at the very least looking back and given the opportunity to call that again, he may have stopped it for a head injury.. Its been a very split topic, as ones at the club game last night were asking me on it, I probably would have played on if I'm being honest, that's just me.
There is a directive coming from Croke and all counties are getting another in house training session next week, will involve a lot of stuff we have already done no doubt but this is a positive and hopefully reinforce rules and the like
Just wanted to ask what the focus of the in-house training was MR2?
Lots of attention on across the neck tackles. over the shoulder tackles frontal charges black card ... There was video analysis of certain games, obviously we questioned the Kerry keepers catch and collision with the Derry forward, 90% all said foul, no one said red card, not even the Derry assessor who took the session, the other 10%, old school view, he took ball man and all and if that was your club mate winning that outcome you'd be pissed off it was blown.
I think personally after the second watch, he should have stopped play for the collision, and slowly make his way to the incident to give himself time to reflect on what the call should be, those few seconds in the heat of that game would allow him to come to a better call
That's exactly what he should have done. The head injury rule gave him clearance to stop the game. The point wouldn't have been scored. I think that's the part that added insult to injury for Derry.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport-columnists-gaa/arid-41194813.html
As a Derry man, I can't say I am Goughs biggest fan, his inconsistency in booking players from how he treated McKaigue in the semi final for minimal contact on Cliford in particular really annoyed me. If McKaigue had of tackled Clifford in the same manner McCarthy hit a number of tackles he wouldn't have seen the last twenty minutes of the game. McKaigue will have watched yesterdays game and felt persecuted.
Quote from: shawshank on July 31, 2023, 01:23:43 PM
As a Derry man, I can't say I am Goughs biggest fan, his inconsistency in booking players from how he treated McKaigue in the semi final for minimal contact on Cliford in particular really annoyed me. If McKaigue had of tackled Clifford in the same manner McCarthy hit a number of tackles he wouldn't have seen the last twenty minutes of the game. McKaigue will have watched yesterdays game and felt persecuted.
As a Derry man, have you got the right ref?!!
Quote from: shawshank on July 31, 2023, 01:23:43 PM
As a Derry man, I can't say I am Goughs biggest fan, his inconsistency in booking players from how he treated McKaigue in the semi final for minimal contact on Cliford in particular really annoyed me. If McKaigue had of tackled Clifford in the same manner McCarthy hit a number of tackles he wouldn't have seen the last twenty minutes of the game. McKaigue will have watched yesterdays game and felt persecuted.
Different referee.
As a Tyrone man, I can say it wasn't Gough referred the Derry semi final.
just seen that sorry, I meant to put McQuillians name into the post instead of Gough. And that was the pt, the absolute inconsistency in standards of what is a tackle or tackles resulting in cards.
Quote from: shawshank on July 31, 2023, 01:59:36 PM
just seen that sorry, I meant to put McQuillians name into the post instead of Gough. And that was the pt, the absolute inconsistency in standards of what is a tackle or tackles resulting in cards.
The
inconsistency of people knowing who was refereeing is whats wrong here ;D
Gough has become a bit of a celebrity referee but in fairness he did have a very good match yesterday.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 31, 2023, 05:31:06 PM
Gough has become a bit of a celebrity referee but in fairness he did have a very good match yesterday.
If you ignore the decisions he bottled.
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 31, 2023, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 31, 2023, 05:31:06 PM
Gough has become a bit of a celebrity referee but in fairness he did have a very good match yesterday.
If you ignore the decisions he bottled.
Which ones did he bottle?
Quote from: Silver hill on July 31, 2023, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 31, 2023, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 31, 2023, 05:31:06 PM
Gough has become a bit of a celebrity referee but in fairness he did have a very good match yesterday.
If you ignore the decisions he bottled.
Which ones did he bottle?
At least 2 second yellows on mc carthy.
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2023, 10:07:44 PM
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Do you think in the heat of the game with all those decisions to make, his prep going into the game he's saying "must not send off McCarthy, as he's captain and going for 9" seriously??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2023, 10:07:44 PM
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Do you think in the heat of the game with all those decisions to make, his prep going into the game he's saying "must not send off McCarthy, as he's captain and going for 9" seriously??
Can you explain why McCarthy wasn't sent off?
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 31, 2023, 10:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2023, 10:07:44 PM
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Do you think in the heat of the game with all those decisions to make, his prep going into the game he's saying "must not send off McCarthy, as he's captain and going for 9" seriously??
Can you explain why McCarthy wasn't sent off?
I wasn't refereeing tbf
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 31, 2023, 10:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2023, 10:07:44 PM
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Do you think in the heat of the game with all those decisions to make, his prep going into the game he's saying "must not send off McCarthy, as he's captain and going for 9" seriously??
Can you explain why McCarthy wasn't sent off?
I wasn't refereeing tbf
If you had been, would you have sent him off?
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 31, 2023, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 31, 2023, 10:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2023, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 31, 2023, 10:07:44 PM
It's hard on him really. He lives and works in Dublin. The final was all about McCarthy being Captain and going for 9. Sending him off would have been a huge call.
Do you think in the heat of the game with all those decisions to make, his prep going into the game he's saying "must not send off McCarthy, as he's captain and going for 9" seriously??
Can you explain why McCarthy wasn't sent off?
I wasn't refereeing tbf
If you had been, would you have sent him off?
I'd need to see them again, you can note yellow and note before sending someone off, that's Goigh's call and plenty of calls during the match from commentators saying it's good to see you having to work for a free, overall he's done a good job over the 80 minutes.
Can't get them all right, but one's thinking he's actively set out to not send someone off is flat earth style conspiracy
There was more than 2, he should got about 1 black and 2 yellow before he eventually carded, couldn't understand it. Book Clifford and Fitzsimmons for pulling at each other but Mccarthy clattered a no. Of players high and late and got nothing to near the end.
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very little in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
"Blowing for foul play when appropriate"
In other words a Ref deciding to ignore some fouls while giving frees for others?
So you agree with Milltown then?
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Quote from: Rossfan on August 01, 2023, 08:58:52 AM
"Blowing for foul play when appropriate"
In other words a Ref deciding to ignore some fouls while giving frees for others?
So you agree with Milltown then?
Any intentional contact with an opposition player, if not a shoulder is a foul. Do you want a foul called for every bit of illegal contact? The game would be unwatchable. There's no point claiming fouls are black and white. Watch any game and most defenders will have a hand on their marker while waiting on the ball. We're not expecting refs to call all these but they are technically a foul. But if that changes into dragging/ holding then we do expect it. That's why it's so hard to ref a gaa game.
The ref absolutely has to make calls based on severity of the foul. There is no point claiming otherwise.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?
Jesus Christ Lad! Dropping or fumbling the ball is not a bounce.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?
Commonsense we say it wasn't a free out. But then there is nothing in the rules about common sense. If a bounce only pertains to situations where the ball returns to the hands, then did geaney actually throw the ball to the ground, and it should have been a free out for throwing the ball??
I jest
Definition of bounce page 107 T.O.
PS if every intentional contact is a foul per rules then change the rules if enforcing them would make a game unwatchable.
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
Lol
Quote from: Rossfan on August 01, 2023, 10:13:08 AM
Definition of bounce page 107 T.O.
PS if every intentional contact is a foul per rules then change the rules if enforcing them would make a game unwatchable.
That's the issue. Change it to what, that would eliminate the grey areas? It would be near impossible to write it up. Whether we like it or not, common sense comes into it when reffing a game. Ideally that wouldn't be the case, but given the complexity of the game, we just have to allow the ref a certain leeway. And they're never getting them all right.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?
It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf))
"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 01, 2023, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?
It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf))
"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."
Spotters badge for Norf Tyrone
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%
I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?
You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%
I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?
You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it
Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?
If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.
On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.
So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%
I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?
You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it
Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?
If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.
On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.
So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.
Are you saying he wasn't talking to his umpires? I've said they use an open mic and do talk to their linesmen and umpires, for some reason you felt they weren't I'm assuming then you had a listening device during the match that told you that?
As I've said I would need to watch the game properly as oppose to watching while dandering through London and on a train, also, he didn't call it and didn't do it to piss you off, or because he was the captain and didn't want to annoy him on his big day!
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall.
The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall.
The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.
I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.
There is nothing unusual about it! The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.
You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.
As I said, watch it back and come back to me.
Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..
I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 02:26:27 PM
Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..
I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft
Nothing soft about us MR2. Just prefer the rules to be applied fairly & consistently. But go ahead, see how you get on trying to justify him getting things blatantly wrong. If you think Im the only one maybe see what Enda McGinley had to say on it. He must be soft too!
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 02:26:27 PM
Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..
I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft
Nothing soft about us MR2. Just prefer the rules to be applied fairly & consistently. But go ahead, see how you get on trying to justify him getting things blatantly wrong. If you think Im the only one maybe see what Enda McGinley had to say on it. He must be soft too!
All about perceptions and opinions and agendas ... Never have a winning teams come over after a game and complain, plenty of losing teams do though, which I find strange ;D
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall.
The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.
I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.
There is nothing unusual about it! The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.
You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.
As I said, watch it back and come back to me.
Well it's not like he got ONE decision wrong as it pertained to McCarthy
He got THREE decisions wrong
Quote from: whitey on August 01, 2023, 06:47:27 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on August 01, 2023, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall.
The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.
I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.
There is nothing unusual about it! The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.
You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.
As I said, watch it back and come back to me.
Well it's not like he got ONE decision wrong as it pertained to McCarthy
He got THREE decisions wrong
He's not perfect as is Clifford
Ok watched the game,
First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards
Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.
First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?
So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13
McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..
Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..
The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.
Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped
Overall I felt Gough was outstanding
McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
Ok watched the game,
First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards
Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.
First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?
So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13
McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..
Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..
The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.
Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped
Overall I felt Gough was outstanding
McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.
What about the two head high tackles either of which could (and should) have been reds
Did he get a yellow for the sliding tackle? (which is outlawed in Gaelic football)
He got away with holy blue murder-no pun intended
Anyone else would have walked
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on August 01, 2023, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2023, 10:05:01 AM
The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?
It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf))
"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."
That's interesting. Why does this rule exist if that's the definition of a bounce?
1.5 When the ball has not been caught it may be bounced more than once in succession?
I mean how would that ever be possible if it only becomes a bounce after you catch it?
Using that definition the rule basically says. When the ball has not been bounced it may be bounced more than once consecutively provided it's not actually bounced.
Is it any wonder that referees struggle so much and are routinely criticised. It's not even clear what impact kicking it would have using that definition.
All madness.
Quote from: whitey on August 01, 2023, 10:37:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
Ok watched the game,
First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards
Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.
First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?
So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13
McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..
Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..
The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.
Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped
Overall I felt Gough was outstanding
McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.
What about the two head high tackles either of which could (and should) have been reds
Did he get a yellow for the sliding tackle? (which is outlawed in Gaelic football)
He got away with holy blue murder-no pun intended
Anyone else would have walked
Watch it back, O'Shea did similar tackle same call from Gough, it wasn't a sliding tackle either, Kerry lad went down to get the ball, McCarthy tried to poke it away, free, you really need to watch it back..
It was a yellow card offence, wasn't as bad as you are making out, I seen plenty big tackles but nothing you wouldn't expect in a championship game, let alone inter county senior final.
On the free count Kerry were worse, Gough yellow carded 3 Dubs in the first half, seemed to be he was being tough when it mattered.
As said first a free, push, no card, second note at best (same result for Kerry man minute later) 3 free was yellow, well deserved, last free attempt to play ball, no sliding in or any major contact
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
He made a poor
attempt was more of a lazy outstretched arm, not a clothesline either, there were similar tackles in the game, I highlighted two Kerry tackles were hands were around face area, no cards given. People see what they want to see and outraged, he done two two soft fouls one note and one definitely a yellow.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
You asked me to watch it, I did, I gave you my opinion, whether you agree or not that's fine, saying I'll argue black is white while saying you are right is a bit rich, but not strange considering your posts on the matter.
I said Gough missed a few tackles also, you have left that out, O'Shea should have had a yellow, but hey ho. Kerry were fouling the most, but 13 frees per team in such a big game isn't a lot
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 02:26:27 PM
Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..
I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft
Easy now with those types of statements ;)
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
Overall, Gough had a good game and did not over-influence the final outcome. When the game was there to be won in the final 8 minutes, Dublin had the composure to do so, Kerry didn't.
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
Overall, Gough had a good game and did not over-influence the final outcome. When the game was there to be won in the final 8 minutes, Dublin had the composure to do so, Kerry didn't.
History is written by the victorious
If McCarthy had gotten a (deserved) red card early on and Dublin lost the game by a narrow margin everyone would be singing a different tune
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
Overall, Gough had a good game and did not over-influence the final outcome. When the game was there to be won in the final 8 minutes, Dublin had the composure to do so, Kerry didn't.
History is written by the victorious
If McCarthy had gotten a (deserved) red card early on and Dublin lost the game by a narrow margin everyone would be singing a different tune
If Derry had taken their scores, Kerry wouldn't have been in the final. If Clifford had taken his chances, Kerry would have won the final. There are lots of tunes. Mind you, if Con hadn't hit the bar and a double bounce been called ... if ... if. No point in blaming Gough. Overall he did a good job.
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:57:34 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 02, 2023, 12:26:36 AM
He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card
WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.
Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.
Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.
Overall, Gough had a good game and did not over-influence the final outcome. When the game was there to be won in the final 8 minutes, Dublin had the composure to do so, Kerry didn't.
History is written by the victorious
If McCarthy had gotten a (deserved) red card early on and Dublin lost the game by a narrow margin everyone would be singing a different tune
If Derry had taken their scores, Kerry wouldn't have been in the final. If Clifford had taken his chances, Kerry would have won the final. There are lots of tunes. Mind you, if Con hadn't hit the bar and a double bounce been called ... if ... if. No point in blaming Gough. Overall he did a good job.
Apples and Oranges. Those things you reference are what one would normally expect to happens over the ebb and flow of a game and
For ONE player to flat out get away with 2 red card offenses and one black card offense in the same game is down to the referee chickening out of making a big call on a big player on a big day
2 red cards??
Half heard a snippet on RTÉ radio1 about gaelic games, rules etc.
One chap who may have been Pat McEnaney says the 4 step rule is played loosely and doesn't need changing.
So we have Refs who ignore the rules, loosely apply the rules, sometime enforce some rules....
Simplest way to cut out the numbers of fouls is to allow a tackle on the man.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2023, 03:02:57 PM
Half heard a snippet on RTÉ radio1 about gaelic games, rules etc.
One chap who may have been Pat McEnaney says the 4 step rule is played loosely and doesn't need changing.
So we have Refs who ignore the rules, loosely apply the rules, sometime enforce some rules....
Simplest way to cut out the numbers of fouls is to allow a tackle on the man.
I'd say Pat is right, been to a few seminars that Pat was speaking at and he's right in saying, loosely. If we were manic about the rules it would make a crap game even more crap to watch.
Again lets get the sofa armchair viewing app, get rid of the ref's and let the public decide, over a certain percentage a loud horn will go for a foul, followed by a decision on whether there is a card on the big screen!
Be no complaints and take up less shit talk on here
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 03:09:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2023, 03:02:57 PM
Half heard a snippet on RTÉ radio1 about gaelic games, rules etc.
One chap who may have been Pat McEnaney says the 4 step rule is played loosely and doesn't need changing.
So we have Refs who ignore the rules, loosely apply the rules, sometime enforce some rules....
Simplest way to cut out the numbers of fouls is to allow a tackle on the man.
I'd say Pat is right, been to a few seminars that Pat was speaking at and he's right in saying, loosely. If we were manic about the rules it would make a crap game even more crap to watch.
Again lets get the sofa armchair viewing app, get rid of the ref's and let the public decide, over a certain percentage a loud horn will go for a foul, followed by a decision on whether there is a card on the big screen!
Be no complaints and take up less shit talk on here
Pat McEneaney was one of the best referees because of how he interpreted the rules ie with a large degree of common sense and he allowed a certain amount of physicality providing there were genuine attempts to play the game honestly. Not ruining the spectacle by blowing at every little technical infringement, those types of referees are the ones that infuriate most.
The amount of bleating about Goughs performance since Sunday is slightly bemusing. I've no doubt most of it is simply borne out of frustration at not getting the result that some people wanted but it still doesn't really stack up. He refereed the game consistently and even the decision he made to overturn the Clifford free kick I seem to recall he done the same thing in another game earlier this year or certainly in recent times. Both sides would have been well aware of his refereeing style before the match and played on the edge of what they thought was permissible.
The threshold for issuing yellow cards has fallen dramatically over the last 10/15 years and I don't think we can say that the game has become a better spectacle as a result. In fact I'd say the game has become far too sanitised with little physicality allowed and that yellow cards are now sometimes being issued for ordinary personal fouls. I recall a Cork player getting a red card for 2 such fouls earlier in the League against Dublin which seemed to highlight just how little contact was being allowed by some referees. That is a much bigger problem, the lack of physical contact allowed by some officials, although they always do seem to allow more of it in the latter stages of the championship.
What's your definition of "physical contact"?
Quote from: yellowcard on August 02, 2023, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 03:09:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2023, 03:02:57 PM
Half heard a snippet on RTÉ radio1 about gaelic games, rules etc.
One chap who may have been Pat McEnaney says the 4 step rule is played loosely and doesn't need changing.
So we have Refs who ignore the rules, loosely apply the rules, sometime enforce some rules....
Simplest way to cut out the numbers of fouls is to allow a tackle on the man.
I'd say Pat is right, been to a few seminars that Pat was speaking at and he's right in saying, loosely. If we were manic about the rules it would make a crap game even more crap to watch.
Again lets get the sofa armchair viewing app, get rid of the ref's and let the public decide, over a certain percentage a loud horn will go for a foul, followed by a decision on whether there is a card on the big screen!
Be no complaints and take up less shit talk on here
Pat McEneaney was one of the best referees because of how he interpreted the rules ie with a large degree of common sense and he allowed a certain amount of physicality providing there were genuine attempts to play the game honestly. Not ruining the spectacle by blowing at every little technical infringement, those types of referees are the ones that infuriate most.
The amount of bleating about Goughs performance since Sunday is slightly bemusing. I've no doubt most of it is simply borne out of frustration at not getting the result that some people wanted but it still doesn't really stack up. He refereed the game consistently and even the decision he made to overturn the Clifford free kick I seem to recall he done the same thing in another game earlier this year or certainly in recent times. Both sides would have been well aware of his refereeing style before the match and played on the edge of what they thought was permissible.
The threshold for issuing yellow cards has fallen dramatically over the last 10/15 years and I don't think we can say that the game has become a better spectacle as a result. In fact I'd say the game has become far too sanitised with little physicality allowed and that yellow cards are now sometimes being issued for ordinary personal fouls. I recall a Cork player getting a red card for 2 such fouls earlier in the League against Dublin which seemed to highlight just how little contact was being allowed by some referees. That is a much bigger problem, the lack of physical contact allowed by some officials, although they always do seem to allow more of it in the latter stages of the championship.
Head high challenges of any description have really been clamped down on would be the main difference I would say in terms of physicality. I'm not sure that's a bad thing as with concussion etc they need to be.
I would agree with you saying the "bleating about Gough". He had as good a game as any referee could expect to have. He gets chastised for calling his umpire in when if he was damned if he didn't. There's no way that was a free in but they are ones that are bought regularly and it would have impacted the game.
The bigger teams always seem to get the big (game changing) calls
Look at the Clare/Limerick game this year-clear free for Clare at the end of the game not given
Tadgh Kennelly-first play of the AIF against cork (2009) leveled a guy with a reckless and dangerous challenge. Red all day long not given
What happened on Sunday (imho) is that one player (Dublin captain, shoe in for POTY, going for 9th Celtic Cross) crossed the line THREE times and never got called. It wasn't one decision where he got the benefits of the doubt-it was three
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Gaelic football is a tough game to referee made worse by the Mark rule and black card including timing .
It strikes me that for any controversial decisions around contact , you could find some foul on TV replay eg Steven O'Brien's crucial "soft free" v Derry . In the same game early on Derry, were penalised for over carrying in a swarm tackle with rabble rousing approval by Kerry players and supporters. Yet if u look at Tv replay the referee could/?should have given a free . But many praise refs for letting it go or showing common sense. Soccer and nfl and rugby refs are never lauded fir letting it go and showing common sense. I'd be interested in MR's view in this as a referee.
If I had a choice I would help referees by :
1. Get rid of mark
2. Get rid of black card
3. Heavily Penalise jeopardising an opponent eg head tackles, even consider outlawing shoulder charge as it's impossible to always judge fairly
4. Grade and reward referees better
James McCarthy is a brilliant player perhaps best defender in the history of game in terms of achievement and winning mentality, but he gets away with head high tackles all the time . With concussion concerns ,reducing head high tackles must be a priority . There still will be plenty of physicality in the game without endangering the head
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2023, 04:12:54 PM
What's your definition of "physical contact"?
I don't think the tackle has ever been clearly defined in the rule book, its often left open to the interpretation of the individual referee. That is often why teams will adapt their approach to the referee on the day as different refs will allow different levels of physicality. As a spectator I don't want to watch a stop start encounter riddled with free kicks and as long as there is an honest attempt to play the ball and not endanger the opponent I think a referee should use their discretion to apply the rules as they see fit. Hurling has it much better than football which has almost become a non contact sport with some referees.
I'm not against the 'mark' from kick outs, forward 'mark' is silly as is the defensive one.
The black card should only be for deliberate trips/pull downs I'm tired of watching players trying to instigate a black card by running purposely into players who basically stand their ground or genuinely trying to avoid collision. Even seen players get black card for jersey pulling each other, one goes down and the other happens to get carded!
The black card for abuse to referees is perfect but not used enough, probably only used it a handful of times, though definitely going to use it more often
Over the shoulder tackles are fouls, but players seem to be still coached to do it, accidentally making contact with players head can be a yellow, the initial contact McCarthy had wasn't to head but there was minimal contact but it wasnt a yellow in my book, the second one was for sure and it was his third free thus even by any standard that earns you a yellow, it was lazy looking but still a yellow. As for last one he genuinely looked to toe poke the ball away before the Kerry lad went down to dip the ball
Referees are not professional and there is not enough money in the game to entice them to give up their career to referee 'full time' 6 months of the year
There are professional referees in the PL and they are never done slating them, people are just moany shites.
Teams at the highest level know the refs traits and if they don't, that's on them. I've a style others reading the same rules have their style, we are all ex players and feel that how we approach and manage the game is grand, but certainly none come away thinking they got all the calls right.
Done a match the other week, a grown man, a coach on the team was telling me I must be riding the full-forward! Like seriously, this is what I feel is the biggest problem
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
A few years bck they clamped down on deliberate head high tackles (Think Mooney of Down, getting sent off, even though I think he didn't mean it) Then they decided a head high tackle a yellow card offence, que open season last no of yrs with head high tackles every game, cause players know they only get a yellow card. There used to be a rule dangerous play which I presume still exists. Half them head high tackles are red card offences previous. Like Rubgy they only act after something serious happens.
Somebody mentioned Kennelly, that lad should got red first day 1min in. no f**king around, this attitude of oh we have to make a game of it, that's not the ref job. it's the biggest reason alot of games end up been tight.
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Yellow card, the tackle is clearly defined in the Rules .
To summarise. It's a skill and is made on the ball within the rules of fair play.
It then lists things not allowed like slapping etc.
It's players who commit fouls yet everyone wants Refs to ignore them so "the game can flow" and so "I don't want to be watching a stop start game"
Of course enforcing rules on ball carriers would be a good place to start...
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.
Honestly don't think any ref could have done a much better job than he did on Sunday. Couldn't have asked for much more.
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.
Who said McCarthy had a single red card offence? He definitely was guilty of numerous challenges that normally would be generally accepted as Yellow/Black Card offences. The accumulation would have resulted in him being sidelined as per the rules of the game.
Nobody is yet to explain how Gough and his officials missed Costello throwing a punch and getting away with it?
I actually like Gough as a Referee but when he is put in charge of The Dubs in pressure games he has a tendency to let them cross the line.
It is well documented that he was effectively their In house Referee
The GAA should have more cop on and stop making problems for itself.
Whitey said it... Two straight red cards and one black card he said.
Honestly didn't think his performance was that controversial at all and on your point of Gough seeing Dublin over the line I think Kerry do well enough out of decisions too. They did pretty well in the semi not that that should matter in the context of this game.
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 08:19:58 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.
Who said McCarthy had a single red card offence? He definitely was guilty of numerous challenges that normally would be generally accepted as Yellow/Black Card offences. The accumulation would have resulted in him being sidelined as per the rules of the game.
Nobody is yet to explain how Gough and his officials missed Costello throwing a punch and getting away with it?
I actually like Gough as a Referee but when he is put in charge of The Dubs in pressure games he has a tendency to let them cross the line.
It is well documented that he was effectively their In house Referee
The GAA should have more cop on and stop making problems for itself.
It can be explained. Can I ask first if you were at the match or watched in on tv?
I 100% agree with you on another day Kerry maybe would have come off second best in that Semi-Final. However McKaigue committed the same exact foul (Jersey pull) multiple times and was lucky too.
But we are discussing The AIF here. Some people on here seem to be off the opinion that "as long as The Ref gets most things right its ok" or "sure Kerry are dirty too".
The bullshit that gets put out "GAA has gone soft" ,"You can't be physical" or "he was going for the ball" is just a cowards way of justifying cheap shots.
There has been a push from.within The GAA to put Dublin at the top of the pile via unfair financial aid, competition bias & it now appears to have filtered down to our Referees.
Keep Dublin happy & they keep getting the big gigs. But dare to punish them, even when they appear to cross the line then it's goodbye to the paydays and celebrity.
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 09:00:13 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 08:19:58 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.
Who said McCarthy had a single red card offence? He definitely was guilty of numerous challenges that normally would be generally accepted as Yellow/Black Card offences. The accumulation would have resulted in him being sidelined as per the rules of the game.
Nobody is yet to explain how Gough and his officials missed Costello throwing a punch and getting away with it?
I actually like Gough as a Referee but when he is put in charge of The Dubs in pressure games he has a tendency to let them cross the line.
It is well documented that he was effectively their In house Referee
The GAA should have more cop on and stop making problems for itself.
It can be explained. Can I ask first if you were at the match or watched in on tv?
I was at the game & have re-watched it as well. Why whats your point?
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 09:00:13 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 08:19:58 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
I get why people might think that McCarthy should have been put off but there were not two straight red card offences in that game or everyone would be talking about it. Red for persistent fouling maybe but two straight reds no. Otherwise why wasn't it being talked about by everyone?
Exactly. Some haven't got over their disappointment yet and I understand that. Time is a sort of healer. What we really need to avoid is expecting ever ref to get every call right, in one viewing and in a split second. Impossible.
Who said McCarthy had a single red card offence? He definitely was guilty of numerous challenges that normally would be generally accepted as Yellow/Black Card offences. The accumulation would have resulted in him being sidelined as per the rules of the game.
Nobody is yet to explain how Gough and his officials missed Costello throwing a punch and getting away with it?
I actually like Gough as a Referee but when he is put in charge of The Dubs in pressure games he has a tendency to let them cross the line.
It is well documented that he was effectively their In house Referee
The GAA should have more cop on and stop making problems for itself.
It can be explained. Can I ask first if you were at the match or watched in on tv?
I was at the game & have re-watched it as well. Why whats your point?
Did you see Costello throw the punch in real time?
I was in The Cusack so a bit further away than Gough who was on the 40. A linesman was also around the 40. You can clearly see a coming together instigated by Costello that leaves the Kerry player on the ground holding his stomach/groin area.
Even TV commentary picked up on Costello getting away with it. Your point is?
I was there on Sunday to enjoy the final, not officiate it. Did you see it "in real time?"
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
He actually did make contact twice in two different fouls, not even a note!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
He actually did make contact twice in two different fouls, not even a note!
Made contact to the head in 2 separate late challenges?
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 10:13:36 PM
I was in The Cusack so a bit further away than Gough who was on the 40. A linesman was also around the 40. You can clearly see a coming together instigated by Costello that leaves the Kerry player on the ground holding his stomach/groin area.
Even TV commentary picked up on Costello getting away with it. Your point is?
I was there on Sunday to enjoy the final, not officiate it. Did you see it "in real time?"
No and that is the point. None of the officials saw it. Simple explanation.
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 10:30:24 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 10:13:36 PM
I was in The Cusack so a bit further away than Gough who was on the 40. A linesman was also around the 40. You can clearly see a coming together instigated by Costello that leaves the Kerry player on the ground holding his stomach/groin area.
Even TV commentary picked up on Costello getting away with it. Your point is?
I was there on Sunday to enjoy the final, not officiate it. Did you see it "in real time?"
No and that is the point. None of the officials saw it. Simple explanation.
But they did see it. Watch the game, you can see Gough sees it, runs to Costello and then moves the ball in for him mouthing off.
If you are saying a Ref, Linesman & two Umpires all with sight lines of it somehow all missed the punch but yet still awarded a free then Id have to suggest they are either pretty poor at their jobs or bottled it.
I wanted to see Kerry beat to be honest, mostly due to alot of bad hits in the Derry game. But at the same time, I can't turn round and say Mccarthy was not at the same craic in the final, which would been sorted if he was carded early as he should have been.
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 10:37:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 10:30:24 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 02, 2023, 10:13:36 PM
I was in The Cusack so a bit further away than Gough who was on the 40. A linesman was also around the 40. You can clearly see a coming together instigated by Costello that leaves the Kerry player on the ground holding his stomach/groin area.
Even TV commentary picked up on Costello getting away with it. Your point is?
I was there on Sunday to enjoy the final, not officiate it. Did you see it "in real time?"
No and that is the point. None of the officials saw it. Simple explanation.
But they did see it. Watch the game, you can see Gough sees it, runs to Costello and then moves the ball in for him mouthing off.
If you are saying a Ref, Linesman & two Umpires all with sight lines of it somehow all missed the punch but yet still awarded a free then Id have to suggest they are either pretty poor at their jobs or bottled it.
You didn't see
it (ie the punch, as opposed to the foul - you just saw a coming together, same as Gough) from the elevated vantage point of the Cusack Stand?
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 10:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
He actually did make contact twice in two different fouls, not even a note!
Made contact to the head in 2 separate late challenges?
Yes.. watch it back, first one very soon after the fouls against him by McCarthy, other one later on, but you probably missed it, that's ok, these things happen in a game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2023, 12:33:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 10:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
He actually did make contact twice in two different fouls, not even a note!
Made contact to the head in 2 separate late challenges?
Yes.. watch it back, first one very soon after the fouls against him by McCarthy, other one later on, but you probably missed it, that's ok, these things happen in a game
So in the cold light of day, do you think the ref called the game equally for both sides?
A head high challenge is not necessarily a red card. Frank Burns's tackle against Galway was a red card but it broke the jaw(and he was remorseful too). None of McCarthy's were or were even close or they'd be being talked about by everyone.
Quote from: whitey on August 03, 2023, 02:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2023, 12:33:43 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 10:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2023, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 02, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 04:37:19 PM
What were the two reds you talked about? Black I'm not sure on tbh - someone said it but I don't buy it.
Head high challenges
Dangerous/reckless play/intentional striking
O'Shea did same 'high tackle' didn't even get a card for his? was that Kerry biased ?
Did O Shea do it multiple times and did he also have a potential black card offense overlooked for good measure?
He actually did make contact twice in two different fouls, not even a note!
Made contact to the head in 2 separate late challenges?
Yes.. watch it back, first one very soon after the fouls against him by McCarthy, other one later on, but you probably missed it, that's ok, these things happen in a game
So in the cold light of day, do you think the ref called the game equally for both sides?
Forget about the cold light of day ffs! This was in the white heat of a senior final, challenges whether they are missed timed accidental or deliberate are going to happen, McCarthy's first challenge was the same as O'Shea's two challenges in the game, same outcome, a free, no major malice involved in both, the one deserved yellow card for neck/face challenge was handed out..
At best Gough could have noted both, that would still have McCarthy on the pitch at the end, for such a big enforcer in the game he committed 4 fouls ... not 400 they way some have got on.
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
And lets say a Russian drone landed on the pitch......
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:06:30 AM
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
Darragh Ó Sé, in his post-match column, is nowhere near as sore as you are in respect of the refereeing performance, in that he (correctly) states that Dublin established the (thus far and no further) line with Gough early on, and weren't afraid to max it out.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:06:30 AM
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
Darragh Ó Sé, in his post-match column, is nowhere near as sore as you are in respect of the refereeing performance, in that he (correctly) states that Dublin established the (thus far and no further) line with Gough early on, and weren't afraid to max it out.
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:06:30 AM
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
Darragh Ó Sé, in his post-match column, is nowhere near as sore as you are in respect of the refereeing performance, in that he (correctly) states that Dublin established the (thus far and no further) line with Gough early on, and weren't afraid to max it out.
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
Your last bit is balls btw... I said I had watched the game, albeit on the phone, and said I'll re-watch the game to see if this manic that should have been sent off was given an easier time, because someone made up a thing of him being captain he should stay on, which is balls
So even after watching it, and giving my assessment your view and mine is different
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 12:57:43 PM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 01, 2023, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2023, 09:36:31 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 01, 2023, 01:19:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2023, 11:37:29 PM
Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.
According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.
Regardless, a GAA ref has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.
If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?
2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!
Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier
Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either! The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.
If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?
There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.
I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%
I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?
You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it
Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?
If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.
On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.
So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.
Are you saying he wasn't talking to his umpires? I've said they use an open mic and do talk to their linesmen and umpires, for some reason you felt they weren't I'm assuming then you had a listening device during the match that told you that?
As I've said I would need to watch the game properly as oppose to watching while dandering through London and on a train, also, he didn't call it and didn't do it to piss you off, or because he was the captain and didn't want to annoy him on his big day!
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:06:30 AM
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
Darragh Ó Sé, in his post-match column, is nowhere near as sore as you are in respect of the refereeing performance, in that he (correctly) states that Dublin established the (thus far and no further) line with Gough early on, and weren't afraid to max it out.
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
And has since watched the game through, analysed it in terms of free counts, gave his opinion and has not seen this blatent inconsistency only you seem to be able to see.
Read what I wrote in my message prior to MR2' "that is balls" point
You wrote
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
To which MR2 replied "This is balls....."
To me it reads that you were trying to insinuate that his criticism of your interpretation of the game was unfounded as MR2 did not watch the game clearly. He and I are pointing out he has rewatched the whole game and his opinion has not changed.
If that is not what you were insinuating can you clarify what you did mean?
Quote from: LeoMc on August 03, 2023, 03:10:56 PM
You wrote
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
To which MR2 replied "This is balls....."
To me it reads that you were trying to insinuate that his criticism of your interpretation of the game was unfounded as MR2 did not watch the game clearly. He and I are pointing out he has rewatched the whole game and his opinion has not changed.
If that is not what you were insinuating can you clarify what you did mean?
No I think you will find I made the point that he was on here talking down to anyone who disagreed with his narrative, without having seen the match or the incidents properly. His language not mine.
We disagree on the points raised & that is fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion. What is sad is someone thinking because they are a Referee that this allows them talk down to everyone else on the rules of the game and their application.
Everyone is all for"it being a mans game" or a"physical game" until it effects them or their team.
I merely made the point that on Sunday, in my eyes Gough let one team away with some very questionable calls.
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 03, 2023, 03:10:56 PM
You wrote
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
To which MR2 replied "This is balls....."
To me it reads that you were trying to insinuate that his criticism of your interpretation of the game was unfounded as MR2 did not watch the game clearly. He and I are pointing out he has rewatched the whole game and his opinion has not changed.
If that is not what you were insinuating can you clarify what you did mean?
No I think you will find I made the point that he was on here talking down to anyone who disagreed with his narrative, without having seen the match or the incidents properly. His language not mine.
We disagree on the points raised & that is fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion. What is sad is someone thinking because they are a Referee that this allows them talk down to everyone else on the rules of the game and their application.
Everyone is all for"it being a mans game" or a"physical game" until it effects them or their team.
I merely made the point that on Sunday, in my eyes Gough let one team away with some very questionable calls.
Wise up. On your own admission, you only saw a 'coming together' involving Costello in real time. You changed your mind later. Too late, game over - the reality for any referee who only gets a split second to make a call. At this stage your one-sided commentary is more than questionable. Dublin won and deserved it.
Enlighten me thrn, how is it questionnable?
The point you clearly seem to miss is that I was sat in The Cusack. David Gough is a lot closer & can see the incident happen in front of him
Dublin won yes, but whether they deserved it or not is another matter.
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 03, 2023, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: guevara on August 03, 2023, 09:06:30 AM
I never said McCarthy's fouls were all red card offences.
Okay lets flip it. Lets say Kerry committed the fouls McCarthy & Costello did. Would Gough had come to the same decisions? Not a chance!
Darragh Ó Sé, in his post-match column, is nowhere near as sore as you are in respect of the refereeing performance, in that he (correctly) states that Dublin established the (thus far and no further) line with Gough early on, and weren't afraid to max it out.
It's entirely within Dublin's rights to push the line and try to max it out.
However it was David Gough's job to establish the line in accordance with the rules of the game & apply them fairly & consistently to both.
I'm not one bit sore. I made a point about his performance and was criticised by a current Referee on here who admittedly hadn't seen the game properly or the incidents at his time of posting.
Let me rephrase: I don't see anyone as
exercised as yourself about Gough's performance, including the Kerry contingent -- what's really your beef?
This is coming from a TÃr Eoghain buachaill, whom Gough has fairly recently been ridiculous in his dealings with IMHO, but credit where it's due.
Time to close this thread perhaps.
Reffing a Championship match last night.
Team were a point down, deep into injury time. They had a sideline ball about halfway up the pitch. I was probably going to allow their last attack. Their player crossed the line as he took it. I blew for a technical foul. A member of the management started shouting at me and giving it f**king loads. Full mad he went.
Whistle went shortly after I threw hop hall.
The same member of management came up to me after and said, " I knew he crossed the line, but I had to shout and back my team, it was championship."
Quote from: theticklemister on August 05, 2023, 12:22:42 PM
Reffing a Championship match last night.
Team were a point down, deep into injury time. They had a sideline ball about halfway up the pitch. I was probably going to allow their last attack. Their player crossed the line as he took it. I blew for a technical foul. A member of the management started shouting at me and giving it f**king loads. Full mad he went.
Whistle went shortly after I threw hop hall.
The same member of management came up to me after and said, " I knew he crossed the line, but I had to shout and back my team, it was championship."
I know it's a foul and I only actually call them when I've a neutral linesman, so fair play, the manager's reaction is only natural nowadays, but unless we do nothing about his antics (obviously depending on how he speaks to you) this will be seen as the norm, 6 week suspension for start of next season should make him think a wee bit more
If an attacking player is in the square with the ball and fist passes to another player who is standing in the square is that a square ball?
Thing about it..... he knew he was wrong but still shouted.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 05, 2023, 01:22:09 PM
If an attacking player is in the square with the ball and fist passes to another player who is standing in the square is that a square ball?
I think there was a goal like this in the woman's football semi-final last week-end and it stood.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 05, 2023, 01:22:09 PM
If an attacking player is in the square with the ball and fist passes to another player who is standing in the square is that a square ball?
no
Quote from: marty34 on August 05, 2023, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 05, 2023, 01:22:09 PM
If an attacking player is in the square with the ball and fist passes to another player who is standing in the square is that a square ball?
I think there was a goal like this in the woman's football semi-final last week-end and it stood.
Yeah that is what made me wonder.
Chat about it in the referees chat if I remember
Quote from: theticklemister on August 05, 2023, 01:28:39 PM
Thing about it..... he knew he was wrong but still shouted.
only an arsehole would have blown that for a free at the end of a championship game
Quote from: HiMucker on August 05, 2023, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 05, 2023, 01:28:39 PM
Thing about it..... he knew he was wrong but still shouted.
only an arsehole would have blown that for a free at the end of a championship game
The problem is if it's as blatant as someone collecting the ball less than 13 meters from a free is it a foul or "ffs it's championship ya ballon" play on?
Is that an unwritten rule....let them have a last attack even though halfway through that attack the time is officially up?
Wow referees get it tough. Hoping to get back into the game after retiring as a player, don't think the dedication of a coach or manager would be for me. Was thinking might take up the whistle but how I've seen referees treated prob wouldn't be worth it. I've always treated refs with
Respect, if I've ever questioned them they've answered me cause I haven't resorted to calling the
names. My young boy is football mad and if I was refereeing would I want to bring him to a game where his da is beingcalled every name under the sun? Def not. I've played nearly every position apart from GK and I've prob had more bad games than good, the luxury being I've had 14 other fellas to pull me out, if a ref is Having a bad game it's him and him alone takes the flak.
Fair play to the referees, hardest job there is.
Quote from: ONeill on August 06, 2023, 12:37:56 AM
Is that an unwritten rule....let them have a last attack even though halfway through that attack the time is officially up?
Everyone is different, I personally have two watches going, one I don't stop, the other I stop for injuries and stoppages like subs or if the goal keeper is taking this piss....
Once the stoppage watch hits 30 minutes I generally blow.
There was a match sort of league decider, just before the 30 minutes of the second half the home team won a free, around 35 yards, I said to player you've one play, he played it short fine, that player then passed forward again, all still in that 30 minute time frame, the first backward pass I blew! Watch was 30.25 seconds other watch was 35.25, they lost it saying you can't blow when in a forward position! Where does this mindset come from? Is it coached?
I was lambasted coming off the pitch by supporters
Quote from: HiMucker on August 05, 2023, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 05, 2023, 01:28:39 PM
Thing about it..... he knew he was wrong but still shouted.
only an arsehole would have blown that for a free at the end of a championship game
It was a hop ball
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2023, 07:54:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 06, 2023, 12:37:56 AM
Is that an unwritten rule....let them have a last attack even though halfway through that attack the time is officially up?
Everyone is different, I personally have two watches going, one I don't stop, the other I stop for injuries and stoppages like subs or if the goal keeper is taking this piss....
Once the stoppage watch hits 30 minutes I generally blow.
There was a match sort of league decider, just before the 30 minutes of the second half the home team won a free, around 35 yards, I said to player you've one play, he played it short fine, that player then passed forward again, all still in that 30 minute time frame, the first backward pass I blew! Watch was 30.25 seconds other watch was 35.25, they lost it saying you can't blow when in a forward position! Where does this mindset come from? Is it coached?
I was lambasted coming off the pitch by supporters
The best story I had about time added on what an All Britain ladies semi final. Roger Casements from Warwickshire were playing Tir Chonaill Gaels from London. The London team were miles ahead most of the game but we're getting caught up by Casements. Casements were moving the ball well with a minute to go and just on 30 minutes, one of the Casemenrs girls) was about to pull the trigger for a goal and she was emptied. It was right on 30 minutes. By the time the wee girl was seen to and helped off my watch rolled onto 35 minutes. Deirdre Doherty , who now stars for Mayo, blasted the ball into the net and I blew for time up. I got dog's abuse from the opposite side. Real bad stuff running onto the pitch to me.
There was not one stoppage in the whole of the second half. So on 30 minutes I was for blowing it. The fact that they had a huge lead and let it whittle away was a problem of their own.
It's always the Refs fault......
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 05, 2023, 01:22:09 PM
If an attacking player is in the square with the ball and fist passes to another player who is standing in the square is that a square ball?
No because the ball is already in the square.
Quote from: HiMucker on August 05, 2023, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 05, 2023, 01:28:39 PM
Thing about it..... he knew he was wrong but still shouted.
only an arsehole would have blown that for a free at the end of a championship game
Should they be allowed to over carry or to pick the ball off the ground in injury time?
This camogie ref here here :o Derry 5 catches the balls and gets absolutely flattened - free to Meath.
The average supporter knows only about 70% of the rules, knows very few of the technical rules and makes up their own rules to suit their current narrative.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2023, 07:54:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 06, 2023, 12:37:56 AM
Is that an unwritten rule....let them have a last attack even though halfway through that attack the time is officially up?
Everyone is different, I personally have two watches going, one I don't stop, the other I stop for injuries and stoppages like subs or if the goal keeper is taking this piss....
Once the stoppage watch hits 30 minutes I generally blow.
There was a match sort of league decider, just before the 30 minutes of the second half the home team won a free, around 35 yards, I said to player you've one play, he played it short fine, that player then passed forward again, all still in that 30 minute time frame, the first backward pass I blew! Watch was 30.25 seconds other watch was 35.25, they lost it saying you can't blow when in a forward position! Where does this mindset come from? Is it coached?
I was lambasted coming off the pitch by supporters
See this is interesting for me MR2. I'd have taken one play to mean until the ball goes dead or possession is lost. Would it be better to say the amount of time the team had?
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on August 06, 2023, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2023, 07:54:59 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 06, 2023, 12:37:56 AM
Is that an unwritten rule....let them have a last attack even though halfway through that attack the time is officially up?
Everyone is different, I personally have two watches going, one I don't stop, the other I stop for injuries and stoppages like subs or if the goal keeper is taking this piss....
Once the stoppage watch hits 30 minutes I generally blow.
There was a match sort of league decider, just before the 30 minutes of the second half the home team won a free, around 35 yards, I said to player you've one play, he played it short fine, that player then passed forward again, all still in that 30 minute time frame, the first backward pass I blew! Watch was 30.25 seconds other watch was 35.25, they lost it saying you can't blow when in a forward position! Where does this mindset come from? Is it coached?
I was lambasted coming off the pitch by supporters
See this is interesting for me MR2. I'd have taken one play to mean until the ball goes dead or possession is lost. Would it be better to say the amount of time the team had?
When time is actually up and it's a free I'll say it has to go dead, all the players will know I'll blow. As for one more play, in my post, it was still before the full injury allocated time was up. Some players don't know how long 30 seconds is, or how far 13 meters are, if it's ball dead you could have 10 extra minutes so if they ain't going to attack knowing time is virtually up I'm blowing
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 06, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
I'm with Champion on this tbh. His interpretation of "one more play" is the same as mine though it is a massively grey area. Even without taking the piss, some plays could even be a minute longer than others. I think you'd be better giving a time and letting the players decide what they need to do. You could obviously be flexible with a couple of seconds if they are about to shoot or whatever.
I do, it's 30 minutes on my main watch.. if you communicate that to the players they know. If they feel aggrieved that they weren't allowed to work a score that's on them. They'd 60 plus minutes to win or draw a match.
I personally detest time wasting, every stoppage is stopped on the watch.
If it's a free on 30 minutes there's no 'last play' ball goes wide or over, if it's a free before 30 minutes then they have whatever seconds that are left, not working the ball back forward back shite...
It reminds me a bit of the Donegal - Derry game in 2021, when David Coldrick gave Derry one more play. Until he eventually thought "Fcuk this, it's getting dark and I'm working in the morning."
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on August 06, 2023, 06:39:20 PM
It reminds me a bit of the Donegal - Derry game in 2021, when David Coldrick gave Derry one more play. Until he eventually thought "Fcuk this, it's getting dark and I'm working in the morning."
Yeah and that's probably what he was thinking lol
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 06, 2023, 03:48:55 PM
This camogie ref here here :o Derry 5 catches the balls and gets absolutely flattened - free to Meath.
Thought the penalty changed the game,...... Wouldn't have been given to the team well ahead
I have one watch.
I do a tally with a one pen in my hand of added time.
I try and not let the players know how long is left.
I'll say for example "there are two minutes left with injury time"
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 06, 2023, 03:48:55 PM
This camogie ref here here :o Derry 5 catches the balls and gets absolutely flattened - free to Meath.
Some strange decisions in relation to this yesterday in all three games...
Biggest one was the Waterford game, Cork girl running with the ball runs straight at a Waterford defender, two of them collide, free in given, Waterford girl gets a yellow.
Not 10 minutes later almost the same thing happens up the other end, Waterford girl running with the ball, collides with the Cork defender both go down, free out to Cork and Waterford girl yellow carded.. The ref had to be wrong in one of them, but wasn't consistent.
The Sunday game girls did pick up on it and Ursula Jacobs interpretation would be the same as mine, the defender is well within their rights to hold their position, it's on the person with the ball to make an attempt to go round them rather than barging/charging..
Quote from: johnnycool on August 07, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 06, 2023, 03:48:55 PM
This camogie ref here here :o Derry 5 catches the balls and gets absolutely flattened - free to Meath.
Some strange decisions in relation to this yesterday in all three games...
Biggest one was the Waterford game, Cork girl running with the ball runs straight at a Waterford defender, two of them collide, free in given, Waterford girl gets a yellow.
Not 10 minutes later almost the same thing happens up the other end, Waterford girl running with the ball, collides with the Cork defender both go down, free out to Cork and Waterford girl yellow carded.. The ref had to be wrong in one of them, but wasn't consistent.
The Sunday game girls did pick up on it and Ursula Jacobs interpretation would be the same as mine, the defender is well within their rights to hold their position, it's on the person with the ball to make an attempt to go round them rather than barging/charging..
Is that not the new rule?
I think they were saying last night that it wasn't a great rule as it was aiding the defender.
The panel last night want it changed.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 07, 2023, 05:34:06 PM
That's always been the charging rule. You can't run through someone.
Yeah, can't just literally put the head down and run through someone, and charging also defined but lifting both feet to 'charge' most ref's give it, haven't seen these incidents though
Question for the refs here, Maybe MR might put me straight?
BEFORE a kick out is taken, can a foul be given for a jersey pull at midfield?
I was always under the impression that the ball had to be in play before a free can be given. But in a game I was attending at the weekend, the ref blew for a foul at midfield BEFORE the goalkeeper kicked the ball out. I thought this was wrong, but I've had look through the rule book since and I can't see anything definite either way. Having read it over the weekend, it appears that the ball is technically 'in play' from when the referee blew his whistle for the kick out to be taken (i.e. after his whistle, but BEFORE the ball is kicked out IS considered to be in play).
What do you think?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 08, 2023, 12:13:05 PM
If the rule was the way you thought it was, the big midfielders would be dragged to the floor just before the ball is kicked out.
Or punched in the face
Technically when the ref blows his whistle for a wide or score I don't think he has to blow his whistle again, well I generally don't other than a reminder to hurry up, if the keeper places the ball or addresses the ball, should there be shirt pulling/dragging you can bring the ball out to that position. F the ball is over the fence or keeper is collecting the ball, the ref could yellow card someone if it's a yellow card, but not bringing a free to that point.
Common sense would be to chat to them and let them know you'll bring ball forward
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2023, 01:27:27 PM
Technically when the ref blows his whistle for a wide or score I don't think he has to blow his whistle again, well I generally don't other than a reminder to hurry up, if the keeper places the ball or addresses the ball, should there be shirt pulling/dragging you can bring the ball out to that position. F the ball is over the fence or keeper is collecting the ball, the ref could yellow card someone if it's a yellow card, but not bringing a free to that point.
Common sense would be to chat to them and let them know you'll bring ball forward
Thanks MR
Quote from: befair on August 08, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
40 yards!
Should be 13 meters.
Quote from: theticklemister on August 08, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: befair on August 08, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
40 yards!
Should be 13 meters.
Yes it is but I've been very generous depending on reason why I've moved it '13m' lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2023, 04:23:42 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 08, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: befair on August 08, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
40 yards!
Should be 13 meters.
Yes it is but I've been very generous depending on reason why I've moved it '13m' lol
Those wee short strides would be a give away or do you let the ball roll a bit forward as well when you "set" it down?
Quote from: johnnycool on August 08, 2023, 04:37:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2023, 04:23:42 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on August 08, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: befair on August 08, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
40 yards!
Should be 13 meters.
Yes it is but I've been very generous depending on reason why I've moved it '13m' lol
Those wee short strides would be a give away or do you let the ball roll a bit forward as well when you "set" it down?
I'll remember that ;D
Quote from: theticklemister on August 08, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: befair on August 08, 2023, 02:12:29 PM
A few weeks ago, a one of our players kicked the ball away after a free had been awarded, and the ref moved the ball up ~40 yds. The opposition scored. Even tho we were penalised, if it's legal, I wish refs would do this more often.
40 yards!
Should be 13 meters.
Was it not changed to 30m a few years ago?
How come men can now line up other side of the line for throw up. How come a lad blocking a man looking to contest a throw up but not even looking at the ball but basically a form of obstruction is not a free?
When u throw up a ball for a stoppage, ie: injury in the old days, why do refs never enforce the 13m distance, I seen less men contest rubgy line outs!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 09, 2023, 12:19:34 AM
When u throw up a ball for a stoppage, ie: injury in the old days, why do refs never enforce the 13m distance, I seen less men contest rubgy line outs!
There is less of throwing the ball up, a smart ref waits till someone is in possession, then it's an indirect free for team who has the ball
If in that circumstance of having to throw it, try getting all the other players not involved back 13 meters, you'd be there a while.
As for your other post, it is a free, an easy one to give, lots of hop balls end up a free. There should only be two hop balls in a game, start and start of halftime when rest of players are on the 45
Are refs wise to the player making a line on the grass for a free on direction from the ref, and then running yards beyond that?
Rian O'Neill does it every time, and I've never seen it blown for him or anyone else.
Sure Peter was at it from the early 90s it was invented in Tyrone... just like every other negative thing in the game 😜😜
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
Are refs wise to the player making a line on the grass for a free on direction from the ref, and then running yards beyond that?
Rian O'Neill does it every time, and I've never seen it blown for him or anyone else.
There was never a worse one for it than his uncle Oisin.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 10, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
Are refs wise to the player making a line on the grass for a free on direction from the ref, and then running yards beyond that?
Rian O'Neill does it every time, and I've never seen it blown for him or anyone else.
There was never a worse one for it than his uncle Oisin.
All Ireland club final drawn final last kick v Crokes
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 10, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
Are refs wise to the player making a line on the grass for a free on direction from the ref, and then running yards beyond that?
Rian O'Neill does it every time, and I've never seen it blown for him or anyone else.
There was never a worse one for it than his uncle Oisin.
Derry's Niall Toner is also shocking for it
Never passes the line of the foul, sorta runs alot on the lead up to the kick, but takes plenty steps bck.
Quote from: InnocentByStander on August 10, 2023, 02:44:37 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 10, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
Are refs wise to the player making a line on the grass for a free on direction from the ref, and then running yards beyond that?
Rian O'Neill does it every time, and I've never seen it blown for him or anyone else.
There was never a worse one for it than his uncle Oisin.
Derry's Niall Toner is also shocking for it
Definitely. He is not really a free taker in my opinion, lacks power in his kick. One of Derry's big deficiencies at present, a top class free taker with a right boot.
I was watching TG4 highlights and the ref reversed two red card decisions in the Ferbane? Tullamore Offaly match. The two boys who were red carded looked devastated and went to the umpire. The umpire consulted with the ref and they were reduced to yellow.
Very rare you would see a ref reverse a decision but tbh probably a good thing he did as it looked like them 2 boys were innocent.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 26, 2023, 09:09:30 AMI was watching TG4 highlights and the ref reversed two red card decisions in the Ferbane? Tullamore Offaly match. The two boys who were red carded looked devastated and went to the umpire. The umpire consulted with the ref and they were reduced to yellow.
Very rare you would see a ref reverse a decision but tbh probably a good thing he did as it looked like them 2 boys were innocent.
Fair play not too often you'll see a ref admit he was wrong!
He's not actually admitting he's wrong, possibly the position he seen it was poorer to the umpires and they've given a different view on it.
To be fair, I think in the rule book he's not meant to change his decision once given.. strangely
I think in big televised games it would be smart to have the 4th 0fficail linked up to someone who can get quick replay information, to help with on field calls
Whatever allows the correct decision to be reached should be pursued.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2023, 10:06:51 AMHe's not actually admitting he's wrong, possibly the position he seen it was poorer to the umpires and they've given a different view on it.
To be fair, I think in the rule book he's not meant to change his decision once given.. strangely
I think in big televised games it would be smart to have the 4th 0fficail linked up to someone who can get quick replay information, to help with on field calls
I did wonder about that bit in bold.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 26, 2023, 10:26:58 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2023, 10:06:51 AMHe's not actually admitting he's wrong, possibly the position he seen it was poorer to the umpires and they've given a different view on it.
To be fair, I think in the rule book he's not meant to change his decision once given.. strangely
I think in big televised games it would be smart to have the 4th 0fficail linked up to someone who can get quick replay information, to help with on field calls
I did wonder about that bit in bold.
There are many parts to the rules that need revisited
That said there is a online meeting this week from Croke in relation to all aspects of the game, there has been games development officers reviewing data and hopefully collating data to try and improve things
Isn't there a Committee rationalising the oul Treóir Oifigiúil at present?
Quote from: Rossfan on September 26, 2023, 01:59:29 PMIsn't there a Committee rationalising the oul Treóir Oifigiúil at present?
was it not a success?
Was at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
If the black card offence happened 'on the ball', it's not the linesman call, ref only is it not. Linesmen can only call on off the ball stuff, which they rarely do. (unless the rules have changed)
Once issued, by the rules, the ref needs to stand over it, which I feel is wrong, as getting to the correct decision is the most important thing.
The ref can talk to a lines man before making his decision to ask whether or not he agrees or seen something different, THEN make a call, but can't, by the rule book, change it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 12:01:50 PMOnce issued, by the rules, the ref needs to stand over it, which I feel is wrong, as getting to the correct decision is the most important thing.
The ref can talk to a lines man before making his decision to ask whether or not he agrees or seen something different, THEN make a call, but can't, by the rule book, change it
I've seen refs change their mind before
Quote from: general_lee on October 16, 2023, 12:23:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 12:01:50 PMOnce issued, by the rules, the ref needs to stand over it, which I feel is wrong, as getting to the correct decision is the most important thing.
The ref can talk to a lines man before making his decision to ask whether or not he agrees or seen something different, THEN make a call, but can't, by the rule book, change it
I've seen refs change their mind before
Yeah, me also, but by the rules, if he issues a card in this case, then consults the lines man, he can't or shouldn't, by the rule book
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
the abuse he took coming off the field was nothing short of a disgrace. best team won.
Quote from: Link on October 16, 2023, 01:13:59 PMQuote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
the abuse he took coming off the field was nothing short of a disgrace. best team won.
I think its a good thing to get assistance from the linesmen, who are referee's with probably more experience than the actual ref on the day, so that side of things should be good for the game..
As for the abuse, thats never going to stop, my brother was umpiring for me at the weekend and one supporter said to him "I hope he crashes on the way home"
The GAA is wonderful ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 01:17:56 PMQuote from: Link on October 16, 2023, 01:13:59 PMQuote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
the abuse he took coming off the field was nothing short of a disgrace. best team won.
I think its a good thing to get assistance from the linesmen, who are referee's with probably more experience than the actual ref on the day, so that side of things should be good for the game..
As for the abuse, thats never going to stop, my brother was umpiring for me at the weekend and one supporter said to him "I hope he crashes on the way home"
The GAA is wonderful ;D
While doing Linesman or Umpire duties I've heard some awful things said about the man in the middle but I never would have passed the message on, the brother must know you have a thick skin :o
Quote from: Brendan on October 16, 2023, 02:38:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 01:17:56 PMQuote from: Link on October 16, 2023, 01:13:59 PMQuote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
the abuse he took coming off the field was nothing short of a disgrace. best team won.
I think its a good thing to get assistance from the linesmen, who are referee's with probably more experience than the actual ref on the day, so that side of things should be good for the game..
As for the abuse, thats never going to stop, my brother was umpiring for me at the weekend and one supporter said to him "I hope he crashes on the way home"
The GAA is wonderful ;D
While doing Linesman or Umpire duties I've heard some awful things said about the man in the middle but I never would have passed the message on, the brother must know you have a thick skin :o
Well I was bringing him home, he just wanted to make sure I was alert lol
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
The linesman coming on to the pitch a few times to consult with the referee certainly didn't help him establish authority in the match. In this incident it did result in the correct decision as no black card offence had occurred, I think yellow was for a foot block resulting in a penalty. A certain section of the losing team's supporters took against the ref from the start and seemed determined to blame him for the result. The change of card from black to yellow to their benefit didn't lessen the criticism. I'd say he got most of the calls right across the 60 minutes and nothing controversial missed or given that would affect the result. You could argue about his style of refereeing but don't think it would be justifiable to complain about the standard.
Quote from: GTP on October 16, 2023, 03:35:32 PMQuote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
The linesman coming on to the pitch a few times to consult with the referee certainly didn't help him establish authority in the match. In this incident it did result in the correct decision as no black card offence had occurred, I think yellow was for a foot block resulting in a penalty. A certain section of the losing team's supporters took against the ref from the start and seemed determined to blame him for the result. The change of card from black to yellow to their benefit didn't lessen the criticism. I'd say he got most of the calls right across the 60 minutes and nothing controversial missed or given that would affect the result. You could argue about his style of refereeing but don't think it would be justifiable to complain about the standard.
It was obvious from the first couple of minutes on how he was going to ref the game, and despite initially blowing for nearly every bit contact, it didn't feel like he had full authority over the game.
If he'd booked the two lads wrestling on the floor and almost causing a bigger melee, he might have looked in control. But one team adapted to the ref, the other didn't. Despite disagreeing with a few of his calls he wasn't the difference between winning and losing.
How's this for reffing... (https://twitter.com/SportsNewsIRE/status/1713973314660532480)
The second one was defo overcarrying lol
Is this ref not quite experienced having reffed for quite a long time?
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
Quote from: Would ye whist on October 17, 2023, 11:27:23 AMIs this ref not quite experienced having reffed for quite a long time?
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
yes has been around for some time.
Estimator, what else happened during the game where linesman intervened?
Honest question, i was there as a neutral. Great game, some of the points in the 2nd half were of top quality.
The linesmen seemed to be on the pitch a lot during any break or when a foul was awarded IMO it gave a perception they were advising the ref. Therefore taking his authority away and leaving him more open to criticism from the sidelines. It didn't look like proper teamwork.
Could be a simple explanation like their mics weren't working so they needed to go in and talk to referee.
Quote from: GTP on October 17, 2023, 01:03:30 PMThe linesmen seemed to be on the pitch a lot during any break or when a foul was awarded IMO it gave a perception they were advising the ref. Therefore taking his authority away and leaving him more open to criticism from the sidelines. It didn't look like proper teamwork.
Could be a simple explanation like their mics weren't working so they needed to go in and talk to referee.
Typically the linesmen should come in for the 45's in football and 65's in hurling, standing behind the kickers for frees on their side, ensuring they are taking it from the right spot is encouraged.
Not all games have mic's so any off the ball stuff can be brought to ref's attention, possibly with the game being televised they were all making sure the calls were correct and for the optics it looked like he was consulting his team if he was unsure, which is fine.
As for leaving him open to criticism from the sidelines, thats a given regardless..
Were the linesmen more experienced? I personally don't like to get too involved unless asked, incident in game recently were the ref asked me which number carried out the free, on giving the number, I was subjected to abuse! I didn't blow the whistle nor call the ref over! So ya can't win..
The ref probably felt nervous, as long as he got the main calls correct then all good
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2023, 01:14:46 PMQuote from: GTP on October 17, 2023, 01:03:30 PMThe linesmen seemed to be on the pitch a lot during any break or when a foul was awarded IMO it gave a perception they were advising the ref. Therefore taking his authority away and leaving him more open to criticism from the sidelines. It didn't look like proper teamwork.
Could be a simple explanation like their mics weren't working so they needed to go in and talk to referee.
Typically the linesmen should come in for the 45's in football and 65's in hurling, standing behind the kickers for frees on their side, ensuring they are taking it from the right spot is encouraged.
Not all games have mic's so any off the ball stuff can be brought to ref's attention, possibly with the game being televised they were all making sure the calls were correct and for the optics it looked like he was consulting his team if he was unsure, which is fine.
As for leaving him open to criticism from the sidelines, thats a given regardless..
Were the linesmen more experienced? I personally don't like to get too involved unless asked, incident in game recently were the ref asked me which number carried out the free, on giving the number, I was subjected to abuse! I didn't blow the whistle nor call the ref over! So ya can't win..
The ref probably felt nervous, as long as he got the main calls correct then all good
What is the ruling on this (in bold), in our own SFC final the lineman showed the player the spot to take the free from, this is where he actually started his run up from stole about 5 yards and put the ball over the bar, can the ref call for a hopball?
It is something that happens regularly and have never seen it penalised
Quote from: Link on October 17, 2023, 12:08:50 PMQuote from: Would ye whist on October 17, 2023, 11:27:23 AMIs this ref not quite experienced having reffed for quite a long time?
Quote from: Estimator on October 16, 2023, 11:47:01 AMWas at a minor championship semi final yesterday and the ref issued a black card, the corner back made his way to the bench, only for the linesman to instruct the ref that the challenge wasn't actually a black card offence. Ref called the player back from the bench, cancelled the black card and given a yellow card instead.
The linesman had to intervene a few times throughout the match to assist the ref with his decisions.
yes has been around for some time.
Estimator, what else happened during the game where linesman intervened?
Honest question, i was there as a neutral. Great game, some of the points in the 2nd half were of top quality.
Maybe it was just my perception of it, but the linesman on the dugout side (who is a very experienced referee), appeared to be involved in a lot of discussion and debate with the ref. That said the linesman did have to deal with a couple of vocal benches and management teams. Didn't notice the linesman on the terrace side get involved at all really, and I was up on the bank on that side of the pitch.
The other farce that the linesman was involved in, was after a 'Screen kickout, Lavey had a goal opportunity which was saved by the keeper, and the ball went over the end line. The resultant '45 was all set to be taken, the ref and the linesman stopped the play and were in discussion about something**, but the outcome was 'Screen taking a kickout!!
**Was told after the game that Lavey had an extra man on the field on the play leading up to the '45, so they went back to the initial 'Screen kickout to restart the play. If that is true it would've been some craic had the keeper not saved and the ball ended up in the back of the net.
I see Referees have started a Union.
No wonder with the way they've been hung out to dry at times by Co Boards
Quote from: Rossfan on December 16, 2023, 12:27:41 PMI see Referees have started a Union.
No wonder with the way they've been hung out to dry at times by Co Boards
They are dead right. The way players are getting off after getting red cards is ridiculous. They should look for some backing or refuse to officiate games.
A slight tangent- but see the nonsense in Turkish soccer, Ref punched last week. On the first day back yesterday a Club President takes his team off & match abandoned after a disputed decision. Refs are punching bags for whatever ails you.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 20, 2023, 02:02:25 PMA slight tangent- but see the nonsense in Turkish soccer, Ref punched last week. On the first day back yesterday a Club President takes his team off & match abandoned after a disputed decision. Refs are punching bags for whatever ails you.
We have all done it. Look at any thread after a match on here. Its always the referee that loses you the game (guilty of this myself). There is a serious lack of respect for refs and the worst lack of respect is in the corridors of Croke Park who never seem to back their decisions.
As a Ref I'm not really bothered after the game what happens within CCC's at county level or beyond when sending offs are contested.
To be fair not all ref's will see the whole incident and make a snap judgement on what they have seen. On reflection I've changed calls when presented with a 'different' view from a recording, or said sorry to someone when I've seen it was the wrong call, or if one of my umpires has mentioned it at half time..
Its when its a blatant call that everyone can see by a player and he manages to escape a ban, it probably sticks in your throat a bit.
Physical and verbal abuse though on the day needs to be nipped in the bud, defo will try a bodycam thingy next year just for the craic, it might make people choose their words a bit better, might even reduce the crap form supporters behind the fence who think its fair game.
I think at national level the abuse has also shifted more so online and its only going to get worse.
There are plenty hardmen hiding behind the keyboards out there
Irish Examiner - Saturday 20 January
Tony Leen
Top GAA inter-county referees fail tough new fitness tests in record numbers
Top officials such as All-Ireland final referee last year, David Gough, plus the likes of David Coldrick, Niall Cullen, Anthony Nolan, and Derek O'Mahoney were among those who came up short in pre-season tests
GAA chiefs are facing a serious referees' issue ahead of the opening round of the Allianz Football League after record levels of fitness test failure by the country's top match officials.
Only 19 of the 42 inter-county referees succeeded in meeting tough new pre-season fitness levels in tests conducted on Friday at Abbotstown. It leaves Croke Park with an insufficient number of certified officials for the opening weekend of 16 National League football games in a weeks' time. Strictly speaking, each venue must have a standby referee, which would require 32 officials for the opening round of League games.
Stunned referees failed the bleep tests conducted by DCU's Dermot Sheridan, who took over the role this year. Examiner Sport understands that of 42 officials tested, only 19 passed, 13 failed and ten did not do the testing for one reason or another.
Top officials such as All-Ireland final referee last year David Gough, plus the likes of David Coldrick, Niall Cullen, Anthony Nolan and Derek O'Mahoney were among those who came up short. Mayo's Liam Devenney - who refereed last Sunday's All-Ireland Club IFC final at Croke Park - is regarded as one of the fittest officials on the inter-county scene and he also failed.
The likes of Joe McQuillan, Conor Lane, Paul Faloon, Sean Hurson and David Murnane passed.
The record levels of failure raise the obvious question: was the level of testing too tough or are inter-county officials not at the required level of fitness for the modern game?
As referee co-ordinators examine the shock findings, the likelihood is that repeat testing will be done on football referees in advance of the second or third round of Allianz League fixtures. Normally, the failure rates for pre-season bleep testing would be no more than a handful of referees. The country's top hurling referees are scheduled to do their fitness tests next week and discussions are likely to take place Monday on the testing criteria and whether it is accurate.
Only the 19 referees who passed the Abbotstown fitness tests are now eligible to officiate next weekend's Allianz Football League opening round. The remainder will have to be employed, though, as standby officials.
At intercounty level it's a tough beep test tbf..
Then you look at that game this evening and wonder why they are making the referee fitness tests more difficult. He could bring a deck chair with him.
As long as Joe passed I'm happy.
Typically before crazy defensive football you'd be in a club game, 4.2 miles.
Now be lucky to hit 3.5
Lateral, defending type football is played which brings down the distance that you'd use to run
Shouldn't affect your prep though?
What level are they looking for on the test as a pass?
Quote from: DuffleKing on January 21, 2024, 11:16:54 AMWhat level are they looking for on the test as a pass?
At club level it's difficult enough if you haven't much fitness levels, at intercounty it's a few levels up.
You'd need to work at it
Refs shouldn't be on social media..it distracts them too much.
MR2,
How do you excuse the 2 umpires in the hurling final - standing 3 yards behind the nets and ball in the goal mouth. Very contentious decision to disallow the goal and obviously more so when Gaels end up losing by 1.
Surely, one has to remain post side but you will know better
Quote from: Mikhailov on January 21, 2024, 03:09:10 PMMR2,
How do you excuse the 2 umpires in the hurling final - standing 3 yards behind the nets and ball in the goal mouth. Very contentious decision to disallow the goal and obviously more so when Gaels end up losing by 1.
Surely, one has to remain post side but you will know better
Tough enough one. There's no point standing beside the post if the shot was for a point, you need to get behind the post in line with whoever is shooting but once you know they're going for goal you need to get yourself inline with the post.
Even at that Fintan Burke would have needed arms the length of a gorilla to keep that ball from going over the line.
Quote from: Mikhailov on January 21, 2024, 03:09:10 PMMR2,
How do you excuse the 2 umpires in the hurling final - standing 3 yards behind the nets and ball in the goal mouth. Very contentious decision to disallow the goal and obviously more so when Gaels end up losing by 1.
Surely, one has to remain post side but you will know better
You can't excuse that... the umpire completely in wrong position for shot on goal which is was at that point.
The umpire on the other side stayed con the line but ball was covered so he'd not have seen it.. the umpire on other side would have made the right call had he been on the line..
These guys are generally out with that Ref for all his games, he has done plenty big enough games so they'd have been used to umpiring.
Referees are marked on how their umpires are positioned too.
If you have Hawkeye you should also have goal line technology also. Especially at Croke
It was the worst display of hurling reffing I have seen in some time. Gaels will feel hard done by. Red was soft though probably correct by the letter although worse was let go. He didn't card a St Thomas player for a strike in the second half because he was on yellow presumably. Hugh Lawlor was hauled to the ground with the forward holding his stick, he got carded an a free in for a point.
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 22, 2024, 11:41:12 AMIt was the worst display of hurling reffing I have seen in some time. Gaels will feel hard done by. Red was soft though probably correct by the letter although worse was let go. He didn't card a St Thomas player for a strike in the second half because he was on yellow presumably. Hugh Lawlor was hauled to the ground with the forward holding his stick, he got carded an a free in for a point.
Wasn't great and wasn't helped by his umpires to be fair, the player shoved over the catch nets should have been booked too, red card on slow mo didn't get to the other side, but the ref was looking straight at it. missed the headbutt too
As for Lawlor, that's a hard one to get unless he sees him grabbing the hurl
The game was played with a lot of slaps and hard tackles which spilled over at times, so not an easy one to be involved with
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2024, 01:37:13 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on January 22, 2024, 11:41:12 AMIt was the worst display of hurling reffing I have seen in some time. Gaels will feel hard done by. Red was soft though probably correct by the letter although worse was let go. He didn't card a St Thomas player for a strike in the second half because he was on yellow presumably. Hugh Lawlor was hauled to the ground with the forward holding his stick, he got carded an a free in for a point.
Wasn't great and wasn't helped by his umpires to be fair, the player shoved over the catch nets should have been booked too, red card on slow mo didn't get to the other side, but the ref was looking straight at it. missed the headbutt too
As for Lawlor, that's a hard one to get unless he sees him grabbing the hurl
The game was played with a lot of slaps and hard tackles which spilled over at times, so not an easy one to be involved with
Lawlor knew what he was at, missed the catch and knew the Thomas's lad was favourite for the ball once it slipped behind him, the ensuing "tangle" was Lawlors doing.
Refs need to curb the slap down or chop in hurling, it's let go quite a lot at this level and is creeping into club hurling. A few broken hands will result from it.
It was a really hard day for both refs, Stack was trying to let it flow but for the last 15 minutes of the first half it was getting niggly between both teams and he tried to gain control.
One mistimed shoulder,flying elbow resulted in a red, player can have no qualms, another well timed shoulder resulted in a free and a yellow, no wonder Paul Kinnerk coaches the Limerick lads not to shoulder and use the arms in the tackle.
I know the Gaels will be very very sore with the umpire, but the ref was kind to them on the possible 2 reds in my opinion.Now, feel free to shoot me down but the Thomas' red was heavily exagerated in my mind.
I don't think he really went to 'do' him and the elbow was a regualr height.
While we are chatting refs, I think the football final was well managed and he let a bit go within reason.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on January 22, 2024, 04:14:48 PMI know the Gaels will be very very sore with the umpire, but the ref was kind to them on the possible 2 reds in my opinion.Now, feel free to shoot me down but the Thomas' red was heavily exagerated in my mind.
I don't think he really went to 'do' him and the elbow was a regualr height.
While we are chatting refs, I think the football final was well managed and he let a bit go within reason.
Can't think of many calls which were controversial
Was the headbutt even with a helmet on ,not a red?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2024, 08:25:05 PMWas the headbuteven with a helmet on ,not a red?
The hurling was littered with 'unseen' incidents the football was grand..
Apart from not stopping play for cramp I thought he let the game flow
Primetime are doing something tonight on GAA refs. A new organisation has been set up in Dublin. Kinda like a referees GPA.
Focus will be on violence and threats towards them and how the GAA can improve their lot.
https://x.com/rte_primetime/status/1749912146991788274?s=46&t=KOxVLfiGHGL-L8P15x32Ug (https://x.com/rte_primetime/status/1749912146991788274?s=46&t=KOxVLfiGHGL-L8P15x32Ug)
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 24, 2024, 12:05:48 AMhttps://x.com/rte_primetime/status/1749912146991788274?s=46&t=KOxVLfiGHGL-L8P15x32Ug (https://x.com/rte_primetime/status/1749912146991788274?s=46&t=KOxVLfiGHGL-L8P15x32Ug)
I'm not sure how having an official association for ref's will stop, people coming on to the field and stabbing a referee, carrying out online abuse, or abuse from the sidelines or behind the fence.
Heavy sanctions need to be carried out at clubs where physical and verbal abuse is carried out towards a referee, no home games for the year, banned from championship and a fine, it might start getting clubmen to police in house when the village idiot is let loose at the pitch. Currently people just laugh it off, as saying, sure your man is nuts, never listen
It only takes one header to start the sheep will follow
If the GAA is serious about it then they need to act, and stop saying we are going to do this and that and just carry out actual actions
The most important thing in GAA is the flow of the game. Reffing reflects that. There will always be things that are missed but in general the system seems to work.
https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/331507?fbclid=IwAR3Qd4kdWQfBchlSsUkHYqbamraLyVRpQ9gx7PnE2uvDiFlGudg9TXjAR5o#google_vignette
I think there's a myriad of factors here and it links to the rules discussions.
The rule book is poorly drafted and haphazard that leads to widely different interpretations. That in turn leads to rows and adverse criticism or worse.
That in turn leads to a shortage of referees who why would they bother to get that abuse.
As a result refereeing standards fall.
Which in turn leads to more criticism and more abuse.
Then you get to the top levels where the game is simply too big too fast and too professional for one amateur referee and some amateur assistants.
I think the following need tackled and improved in no particular order.
1. The quality of the rule book.
2. Knowledge of the rules for all involved.
3. Respect towards officials.
4. Quality of refereeing.
5. Assistance for referees in so form be it technology, number of officials or the development of an elite unit properly remunerated.
I don't think you achieve anything tackling only one in isolation.
All that said we might have to close down the GAA discussion section if we all start to agree on refereeing matters.
1. The quality of the rule book.
Yes definitely needs looked at and simplified
2. Knowledge of the rules for all involved.
The biggest bugbear of mine, classic example of a senior player asking me the rules at the game at the weekend. If the players are struggling with the rules what chance have ya?
3. Respect towards officials.
I get, give respect get respect but I've yet to see a referee running around the pitch complaining about a tackle not given as a foul the whole match, reverse that and you can understand why no one is putting their hand up to ref
4. Quality of refereeing.
fix the first few issues and the quality might get a lot better, as it will have a knock on affect
5. Assistance for referees in so form be it technology, number of officials or the development of an elite unit properly remunerated.
Better Tech will only be available at 1% percent of the associations games, i.e Intercounty level, not grassroots, more officials? can't get them unless the first few are fixed, so I doubt it, and more officials on the pitch means different opinions on the rules lol! As for the development of elite refs, they do have an extensive training program to be fair to them, and its never about the money, anyone taking up the whistle needs their head looked at if they are doing it for a few quid!
On point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2024, 04:46:42 PM1. The quality of the rule book.
Yes definitely needs looked at and simplified
2. Knowledge of the rules for all involved.
The biggest bugbear of mine, classic example of a senior player asking me the rules at the game at the weekend. If the players are struggling with the rules what chance have ya?
3. Respect towards officials.
I get, give respect get respect but I've yet to see a referee running around the pitch complaining about a tackle not given as a foul the whole match, reverse that and you can understand why no one is putting their hand up to ref
4. Quality of refereeing.
fix the first few issues and the quality might get a lot better, as it will have a knock on affect
5. Assistance for referees in so form be it technology, number of officials or the development of an elite unit properly remunerated.
Better Tech will only be available at 1% percent of the associations games, i.e Intercounty level, not grassroots, more officials? can't get them unless the first few are fixed, so I doubt it, and more officials on the pitch means different opinions on the rules lol! As for the development of elite refs, they do have an extensive training program to be fair to them, and its never about the money, anyone taking up the whistle needs their head looked at if they are doing it for a few quid!
I think there's considerable overlap and you can't improve one with out tackling the others. I also don't think you neglect the highest levels of officiating because you can't replicate it at the lower levels. This shouldn't be a lowest common denominator thing.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 10, 2024, 10:20:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2024, 04:46:42 PM1. The quality of the rule book.
Yes definitely needs looked at and simplified
2. Knowledge of the rules for all involved.
The biggest bugbear of mine, classic example of a senior player asking me the rules at the game at the weekend. If the players are struggling with the rules what chance have ya?
3. Respect towards officials.
I get, give respect get respect but I've yet to see a referee running around the pitch complaining about a tackle not given as a foul the whole match, reverse that and you can understand why no one is putting their hand up to ref
4. Quality of refereeing.
fix the first few issues and the quality might get a lot better, as it will have a knock on affect
5. Assistance for referees in so form be it technology, number of officials or the development of an elite unit properly remunerated.
Better Tech will only be available at 1% percent of the associations games, i.e Intercounty level, not grassroots, more officials? can't get them unless the first few are fixed, so I doubt it, and more officials on the pitch means different opinions on the rules lol! As for the development of elite refs, they do have an extensive training program to be fair to them, and its never about the money, anyone taking up the whistle needs their head looked at if they are doing it for a few quid!
I think there's considerable overlap and you can't improve one with out tackling the others. I also don't think you neglect the highest levels of officiating because you can't replicate it at the lower levels. This shouldn't be a lowest common denominator thing.
No, and things are different at certain grounds which have Hawkeye (when it works) plus come club championship linesmen fourth officials are made available, but the nuts and bolts of that link in Wexford are simply saying the grass root games at under age level are unable to be officiated because clubs are unable to get ref's.
That's not down to not trying to improve things at intercounty level which only looks after the 1% club.
As you say plenty of overlapping issues which could solve other problems like recruitment, retaining ref's, skill knowledge fitness and ability to apply the rules.
Numbers down in Antrim with regards to recruitment, not uncommon last year to do either a minor and senior game same day or senior and reserve game straight after.
Not an entirely inviting prospect 😂
Problem is, they keep tweaking rules nearly every 2/3yrs. Meaning club players don't keep track of changes. Supporters likewise,and I can't be bothered to read the rulebook, it was vague enough when I was playing.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 10, 2024, 11:06:51 PMProblem is, they keep tweaking rules nearly every 2/3yrs. Meaning club players don't keep track of changes. Supporters likewise,and I can't be bothered to read the rulebook, it was vague enough when I was playing.
There's some bog standard life long rules that people struggle with. If that was the main reason we'd be ok
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on April 10, 2024, 04:51:35 PMOn point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
I would make the standard referee test compulsory for every member registering via Foireann. With Referees having to get 80+%, Players should have to get 70%, normal members 60%. At the very least, it may force spectators to actually read the rule book in some sort of depth. I too have players querying the rules after games. Currently, the most common is the 4 step rule after an unclaimed mark.
Quote from: Walter White on April 10, 2024, 11:12:09 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on April 10, 2024, 04:51:35 PMOn point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
I would make the standard referee test compulsory for every member registering via Foireann. With Referees having to get 80+%, Players should have to get 70%, normal members 60%. At the very least, it may force spectators to actually read the rule book in some sort of depth. I too have players querying the rules after games. Currently, the most common is the 4 step rule after an unclaimed mark.
Players 70% and ref's 80%...are you serious? Surely people know the rules of their games, never mind refs? At most there's a tweak here and there, it's not hard to keep up, surely?
Quote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2024, 11:43:02 PMQuote from: Walter White on April 10, 2024, 11:12:09 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on April 10, 2024, 04:51:35 PMOn point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
I would make the standard referee test compulsory for every member registering via Foireann. With Referees having to get 80+%, Players should have to get 70%, normal members 60%. At the very least, it may force spectators to actually read the rule book in some sort of depth. I too have players querying the rules after games. Currently, the most common is the 4 step rule after an unclaimed mark.
Players 70% and ref's 80%...are you serious? Surely people know the rules of their games, never mind refs? At most there's a tweak here and there, it's not hard to keep up, surely?
I'm not sure I can send a link to the tests on the GAA website, but go and give it a try if you can get on.. 50 questions in 30 minutes, give it a try, let me know how you do
TOBAR? what section? It's a minefield in there
do people seriously ant to test players before letting them play?
Quote from: JoG2 on April 11, 2024, 09:23:55 AMTOBAR? what section? It's a minefield in there
Its a proper minefield lol!
Pass that alone and you're doing alright lol
I'll try and dig out the pathway for it
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 11, 2024, 09:25:19 AMdo people seriously ant to test players before letting them play?
Could be counterproductive. Imagine the rows and fallouts that might develop with players having to remind referees of the rules or pointing out every mistake or inadvertent error they make. They're only human at the end of the day and sometimes prone to making the odd gaffe.
Quote from: general_lee on April 11, 2024, 09:52:26 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 11, 2024, 09:25:19 AMdo people seriously ant to test players before letting them play?
Could be counterproductive. Imagine the rows and fallouts that might develop with players having to remind referees of the rules or pointing out every mistake or inadvertent error they make. They're only human at the end of the day and sometimes prone to making the odd gaffe.
They do anyways
Quote from: general_lee on April 11, 2024, 09:52:26 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 11, 2024, 09:25:19 AMdo people seriously ant to test players before letting them play?
Could be counterproductive. Imagine the rows and fallouts that might develop with players having to remind referees of the rules or pointing out every mistake or inadvertent error they make. They're only human at the end of the day and sometimes prone to making the odd gaffe.
Its a sure fire way to drive people away from the game. I can see an argument for coaches though but if you tell 16 years olds they cant play until they do a test theyll go to another sport
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2024, 09:08:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2024, 11:43:02 PMQuote from: Walter White on April 10, 2024, 11:12:09 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on April 10, 2024, 04:51:35 PMOn point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
I would make the standard referee test compulsory for every member registering via Foireann. With Referees having to get 80+%, Players should have to get 70%, normal members 60%. At the very least, it may force spectators to actually read the rule book in some sort of depth. I too have players querying the rules after games. Currently, the most common is the 4 step rule after an unclaimed mark.
Players 70% and ref's 80%...are you serious? Surely people know the rules of their games, never mind refs? At most there's a tweak here and there, it's not hard to keep up, surely?
Quote from: JoG2 on April 10, 2024, 11:43:02 PMQuote from: Walter White on April 10, 2024, 11:12:09 PMQuote from: Stall the Bailer on April 10, 2024, 04:51:35 PMOn point 2, I would make it compulsory everyone who receives a red card will not be eligible to play until they sit a rule test and get at least 80%.
I would make the standard referee test compulsory for every member registering via Foireann. With Referees having to get 80+%, Players should have to get 70%, normal members 60%. At the very least, it may force spectators to actually read the rule book in some sort of depth. I too have players querying the rules after games. Currently, the most common is the 4 step rule after an unclaimed mark.
Players 70% and ref's 80%...are you serious? Surely people know the rules of their games, never mind refs? At most there's a tweak here and there, it's not hard to keep up, surely?
It's clear that a vast percentage of people including players/mamagers/pundits/spectators have a very poor knowledge of the rules. I've been at multiple matches where people shouting at the ref clearly don't know the rules. Most of the time I stay schtum but on occasion I've shut a few up by shouting the actual rule at them and why the ref made the correct decision.
If you ask GAA people (outside referees) how many of them have ever read the GAA rulebook (I've done this a fair bit over the years) chances are you will only find a tiny fraction of a percentage who have ever read it. Then of those who have ever read it, the amount who have read the most up-to-date version is close to zero.
I never read it myself until after I stopped playing and I would say that it the case for the overwhelming majority of players. The GAA could help out massively if they put a proper system in place to educate people (especially players) on the rules as they currently stand.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2024, 10:03:34 AMQuote from: general_lee on April 11, 2024, 09:52:26 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on April 11, 2024, 09:25:19 AMdo people seriously ant to test players before letting them play?
Could be counterproductive. Imagine the rows and fallouts that might develop with players having to remind referees of the rules or pointing out every mistake or inadvertent error they make. They're only human at the end of the day and sometimes prone to making the odd gaffe.
They do anyways
Well imagine that x10 :D
Unless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 12:24:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway? My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.
Sure McCooey refs give nothing to the N. Antrim culchies.
I see almost ironically that Forrest have lodged a complaint today that the VAR official for todays game was a Luton fan and didn't give them three penalties as a result
Quote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 01:18:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 12:24:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway? My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.
My point on the shit referee is that when you start limiting the reasons to have a referee because of said reasons, you'll end up with a small pool to pick from.
You can, if you want and search it, a reason for not having a particular ref for any game!
Ireland is very small, there'd be some link or two
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 21, 2024, 01:58:48 PMSure McCooey refs give nothing to the N. Antrim culchies.
It's difficult to give this a smart arse response due to the paranoid schizophrenia around some parish's
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 04:03:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 01:18:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 12:24:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway? My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.
My point on the shit referee is that when you start limiting the reasons to have a referee because of said reasons, you'll end up with a small pool to pick from.
You can, if you want and search it, a reason for not having a particular ref for any game!
Ireland is very small, there'd be some link or two
I accept that it wont always be possible or fair to a referee and If its not possible its not possible I just dont know why its not a consideration when it can be. Its an active consideration in soccer. Mike Dean (the senior referee in English football) only refereed Liverpool 13 times and Everton 11 in his entire career (with 8 of those games being between the 2) apparently because of his known fandom of Tranmere Rovers. He refereed Man Utd 84 times, Arsenal 80, Man City 82, Chelsea 78 etc
Quote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 04:41:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 04:03:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 01:18:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 12:24:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway? My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.
My point on the shit referee is that when you start limiting the reasons to have a referee because of said reasons, you'll end up with a small pool to pick from.
You can, if you want and search it, a reason for not having a particular ref for any game!
Ireland is very small, there'd be some link or two
I accept that it wont always be possible or fair to a referee and If its not possible its not possible I just dont know why its not a consideration when it can be. Its an active consideration in soccer. Mike Dean (the senior referee in English football) only refereed Liverpool 13 times and Everton 11 in his entire career (with 8 of those games being between the 2) apparently because of his known fandom of Tranmere Rovers. He refereed Man Utd 84 times, Arsenal 80, Man City 82, Chelsea 78 etc
Yeah he's a mad tramere fan, but still ref'd them, albeit far less.
I know you're not questioning someone's integrity and feel some by location or work or whatever may have that bitta doubt before blowing the whistle or not blowing it.
At intercounty level they are (believe it or not lol) scrutinised from an application of rules all the way down to how their umpires look!
Would be disastrous for a ref to ruin his/hers name by being bias
Ref's at either football or hurling at intercounty level come championship are picked early doors for Sam/Liam all games are ref'd from that selection. I'm sure all considerations are taken but I'd not be privy to how that's done in fairness
Goldrick has to be one of the worst refs about
Honest to f**k Tyrone ones are never done yapping about refs, every single game, read back through the game comments today, 90% yapping about the ref.
Horrible shower altogether. Massive advantage Donegal with that extra time. Jimmy be licking his lips.
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 21, 2024, 06:09:07 PMGoldrick has to be one of the worst refs about
Yet won you the match after you fell apart 2nd half. You'd think you'd be grateful to him
Quote from: bennydorano on April 21, 2024, 06:36:10 PMHonest to f**k Tyrone ones are never done yapping about refs, every single game, read back through the game comments today, 90% yapping about the ref.
Bbc questioned hampsey black card questioned the high challenges, questioned the potential black card for mckerarn, questioned the time keeping. Does that sound like he had a good performance
He was awful. I think he was as bad for one team as the other.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 04:56:18 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 04:41:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 04:03:06 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 01:18:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2024, 12:24:23 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2024, 10:33:12 AMUnless I am misreading the interview Fenton gave about his recent appeal, it seems his challenge was that he had never been sent off before and therefore shouldn't receive the minimum punishment for his sending off. If I am reading that correctly its such a nonsense which can only further undermine referees and the rule book if it were granted.
The other point I wanted to make about standard of refereeing etc is the stupid positions that the association often puts referees in. I want to be very clear I do not think referees are biased or would deliberately do anything that could benefit third parties but why oh why do the association keep selecting referees who it could be said have a vested interest in a particular match.
For example why in all Ireland finals involving Dublin in recent years have they selected a referee who lives, works and as far as I understand is connected to a club in Dublin. I know he is an excellent referee and I dont think he's ever done anything wrong but so selecting him leaves him open to baseless criticism should he make a 50/50 call in favour of Dublin. That's a pressure I don't think referees need. Similarly why select a referee who is from a county that one of the two teams who are playing will meet in the next round. If there's a controversial red card and it then impacts that match, questions will again be unfairly asked. There's no need to put that extra pressure on referees.
In law the test for bias isn't has there been or is there likely to be actual bias. The test is can an individual fully aware of all the facts conclude there is no chance of bias (conscious or otherwise), if they cant then you remove that possibility. I think this is something the association need to look at.
What if you end up with a shit referee?
Get the best ref's for the game, I can't for the life of me see how a ref in front of the thousands watching and viewers on tv be bias.
Of course take that possibility of people thinking that one could be bias because they are x y z but it starts to limit that range of available refs of a certain standard.
It's like club championship, if you only used ref's from a div below to ref senior then you are limiting it, then if he's married someone from another parish then questions will be asked, if he did some work for someone from another parish and so, people will just presume stuff regardless
Now another look at would be this ref has worked his ass off to get an opportunity to referee a final or a big game, but because his ma used to date someone from up the road he's black listed lol!
If the referee is shit what are they doing at that level anyway? My point is I feel sorry for refs who have gotten to the point of being good enough to referee big games then do a good job only for it to be completely undermined by a stupid comment about where they are from or who they are married to etc. I don't think that's fair on referees.
My point on the shit referee is that when you start limiting the reasons to have a referee because of said reasons, you'll end up with a small pool to pick from.
You can, if you want and search it, a reason for not having a particular ref for any game!
Ireland is very small, there'd be some link or two
I accept that it wont always be possible or fair to a referee and If its not possible its not possible I just dont know why its not a consideration when it can be. Its an active consideration in soccer. Mike Dean (the senior referee in English football) only refereed Liverpool 13 times and Everton 11 in his entire career (with 8 of those games being between the 2) apparently because of his known fandom of Tranmere Rovers. He refereed Man Utd 84 times, Arsenal 80, Man City 82, Chelsea 78 etc
Yeah he's a mad tramere fan, but still ref'd them, albeit far less.
I know you're not questioning someone's integrity and feel some by location or work or whatever may have that bitta doubt before blowing the whistle or not blowing it.
At intercounty level they are (believe it or not lol) scrutinised from an application of rules all the way down to how their umpires look!
Would be disastrous for a ref to ruin his/hers name by being bias
Ref's at either football or hurling at intercounty level come championship are picked early doors for Sam/Liam all games are ref'd from that selection. I'm sure all considerations are taken but I'd not be privy to how that's done in fairness
No I don't feel that way at all. I am obviously not articulating myself well enough here. What I am saying is that the association isn't helping in terms of creating a culture of respect towards ref by some of the awkward spots they put referees in. I don't think I have ever seen a referee certainly not at IC level make a decision that I felt was because they had a connection to the team involved or because it would benefit their own county. I have however heard plenty of fans make such connections and it therefore introduces some unnecessary doubt into what is already a difficult job. I think the GAA should be removing all unnecessary doubt and pressure from referees where possible to make their job easier.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Quote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Gavin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
Correct on that point.
Both "square balls" in the Clare v Limerick game are really hard for umpires to call in real time, especially the second one as no doubt the umpire on the far post had his eyes on Hegarty coming in that side so when his shot hits off the post and pops up for Gillane, he's just turned his point of focus toward Gillane who's there in the square, but so is the ball.
First one, fullback needs to take a bit of the blame, rule no 1 of fullback play is that absolutely no one gets near that high ball dropping down, Cleary really should have been driving Gillane away from it, making sure he doesn't even get a chance to flick the hurl at it. Too weak for my liking there.
There's no way Brian Lohan lets Gillane get a touch on that in his day.
Clare will be kicking themselves as the other Limerick goal was very saveable, the lad didn't connect at all well with it and it bounced twice before hitting the net.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 22, 2024, 09:22:22 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Gavin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
Correct on that point.
Both "square balls" in the Clare v Limerick game are really hard for umpires to call in real time, especially the second one as no doubt the umpire on the far post had his eyes on Hegarty coming in that side so when his shot hits off the post and pops up for Gillane, he's just turned his point of focus toward Gillane who's there in the square, but so is the ball.
First one, fullback needs to take a bit of the blame, rule no 1 of fullback play is that absolutely no one gets near that high ball dropping down, Cleary really should have been driving Gillane away from it, making sure he doesn't even get a chance to flick the hurl at it. Too weak for my liking there.
There's no way Brian Lohan lets Gillane get a touch on that in his day.
Clare will be kicking themselves as the other Limerick goal was very saveable, the lad didn't connect at all well with it and it bounced twice before hitting the net.
Personally I believe (though not in the rules) that the ref walks down very slowly towards his umpires, while maintaining contact with the fourth official who's at a desk on the sidelines, the ref is asking him to view it on a monitor that should be available for him, by the time he gets to chat with the umpires the fourth official will have had a better idea of a goal or square ball.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.
It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on April 22, 2024, 07:21:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.
It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.
That's because they have tried to implement a system which is looking at something which is ultimately opinion and interpretation based. It is not black and white and 3 different people in the VAR room watching the same footage could make three different calls on it, so it was never going to be the silver bullet for refs.
If anything I think it is had made their life more difficult instead of less.
Quote from: NAG1 on April 23, 2024, 01:47:19 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 22, 2024, 07:21:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.
It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.
That's because they have tried to implement a system which is looking at which is ultimately opinion and interpretation based. It is not black and white and 3 different people in the VAR room watching the same footage could make three different calls on it, so it was never going to be the silver bullet for refs.
If anything I think it is had made their life more difficult instead of less.
And the same thing will apply when they have two refs on the pitch at Intercounty level.. Said it many times, one mistake is better than 2 mistakes ;)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL2TUNoWoAAe0uk?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: NAG1 on April 23, 2024, 01:47:19 PMQuote from: HokeyPokey on April 22, 2024, 07:21:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2024, 12:07:59 AMQuote from: Gael85 on April 21, 2024, 11:33:41 PMhttps://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41379304.html
Ah the aul hindsight and replays, multiple angles and so on, people hate VAR in the PL but call for it here!
Galvin needs to throw stuff out there otherwise he'll be not getting a wee earner
The PL have made a hames of VAR though. The standard of reffing in the PL is just generally abysmal considering the standard of the players. The same refs are in charge of VAR so it's a reflection of that. They could easily automate things like the ball going out of play and semi automated offsides. They have made some absolutely terrible mistakes. There's continually changes to the way they ref, some of which is announced, sometimes it's not. So something can be deemed a penalty, one week and then not be a penalty the following week.
It generally works grand for rugby and also for international soccer tournaments as far as I can see.
That's because they have tried to implement a system which is looking at something which is ultimately opinion and interpretation based. It is not black and white and 3 different people in the VAR room watching the same footage could make three different calls on it, so it was never going to be the silver bullet for refs.
If anything I think it is had made their life more difficult instead of less.
Yes, it is subjective, but they have made numerous mistakes which were objectively wrong. How it has been implemented has been terrible. There's been numerous incidents of them forgetting to draw the lines or not communicating leading to a goal being wrongly allowed/disallowed or not being able to tell if a ball went out of play. Changing the interpretation and thresholds of contact etc. throughout the season does not help inspire confidence or consistency. When you do hear from the PL referees or former referees they don't inspire confidence either.
VAR works much better in other tournaments in soccer and is much better. It's almost never an issue with rugby. Having clearer defined rules and better processes is possible. It's possible to speed things up by having semi automated offsides and inform the ref when the ball goes out etc.