The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[fearglasmor]

Something dosn't appear right over the last few months.

Does anyone else think that the lads (FF) have something up thier sleeve?

My theory is there is an offer on the table for an Irish Bank coming from possibly China or the Middle East; one would imagine that the DOF were trying to offload a bank over the last year or so and maybe they have a conditional offer on the table.

What are all these 'high level' talks about?

The last thing the Brits or rest of Europe want is a state from outside the Eurozone taking over a bank in the Eurozone.

If my theory is correct then we are in a very strong bargaining position with the ECB / IMF etc hence the 'enforced' 'bailout'.

Also if you think about what has happened over the last week also with NAMA closing in on MacNamara, this seemed very odd.

Please excuse my ignorance on economics if the above theory appears completely mad. I just think its a kind of obvious one? Sometimes the most obvious ones are overlooked.

I read this on reuters as being a possible scenario alright but it was ranked as the least likely one.  But who knows.

[give her dixie]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1118/1224283626246.html?via=rel&sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4ce51b0a23b80d09%2C0

The Irish Times - Thursday, November 18, 2010

Was it for this?

IT MAY seem strange to some that The Irish Times would ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side. There is the shame of it all. Having obtained our political independence from Britain to be the masters of our own affairs, we have now surrendered our sovereignty to the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund. Their representatives ride into Merrion Street today.

Fianna Fáil has sometimes served Ireland very well, sometimes very badly. Even in its worst times, however, it retained some respect for its underlying commitment that the Irish should control their own destinies. It lists among its primary aims the commitment "to maintain the status of Ireland as a sovereign State". Its founder, Eamon de Valera, in his inaugural address to his new party in 1926, spoke of "the inalienability of national sovereignty" as being fundamental to its beliefs. The Republican Party's ideals are in tatters now.

The Irish people do not need to be told that, especially for small nations, there is no such thing as absolute sovereignty. We know very well that we have made our independence more meaningful by sharing it with our European neighbours. We are not naive enough to think that this State ever can, or ever could, take large decisions in isolation from the rest of the world. What we do expect, however, is that those decisions will still be our own. A nation's independence is defined by the choices it can make for itself.

Irish history makes the loss of that sense of choice all the more shameful. The desire to be a sovereign people runs like a seam through all the struggles of the last 200 years. "Self-determination" is a phrase that echoes from the United Irishmen to the Belfast Agreement. It continues to have a genuine resonance for most Irish people today.

The true ignominy of our current situation is not that our sovereignty has been taken away from us, it is that we ourselves have squandered it. Let us not seek to assuage our sense of shame in the comforting illusion that powerful nations in Europe are conspiring to become our masters. We are, after all, no great prize for any would-be overlord now. No rational European would willingly take on the task of cleaning up the mess we have made. It is the incompetence of the governments we ourselves elected that has so deeply compromised our capacity to make our own decisions.

They did so, let us recall, from a period when Irish sovereignty had never been stronger. Our national debt was negligible. The mass emigration that had mocked our claims to be a people in control of our own destiny was reversed. A genuine act of national self-determination had occurred in 1998 when both parts of the island voted to accept the Belfast Agreement. The sense of failure and inferiority had been banished, we thought, for good.

To drag this State down from those heights and make it again subject to the decisions of others is an achievement that will not soon be forgiven. It must mark, surely, the ignominious end of a failed administration

[whiskeysteve]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1118/1224283626246.html?via=rel&sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4ce51b0a23b80d09%2C0

The Irish Times - Thursday, November 18, 2010

Was it for this?

IT MAY seem strange to some that The Irish Times would ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side. There is the shame of it all. Having obtained our political independence from Britain to be the masters of our own affairs, we have now surrendered our sovereignty to the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund. Their representatives ride into Merrion Street today.

Fianna Fáil has sometimes served Ireland very well, sometimes very badly. Even in its worst times, however, it retained some respect for its underlying commitment that the Irish should control their own destinies. It lists among its primary aims the commitment “to maintain the status of Ireland as a sovereign State”. Its founder, Eamon de Valera, in his inaugural address to his new party in 1926, spoke of “the inalienability of national sovereignty” as being fundamental to its beliefs. The Republican Party’s ideals are in tatters now.

The Irish people do not need to be told that, especially for small nations, there is no such thing as absolute sovereignty. We know very well that we have made our independence more meaningful by sharing it with our European neighbours. We are not naive enough to think that this State ever can, or ever could, take large decisions in isolation from the rest of the world. What we do expect, however, is that those decisions will still be our own. A nation’s independence is defined by the choices it can make for itself.

Irish history makes the loss of that sense of choice all the more shameful. The desire to be a sovereign people runs like a seam through all the struggles of the last 200 years. “Self-determination” is a phrase that echoes from the United Irishmen to the Belfast Agreement. It continues to have a genuine resonance for most Irish people today.

The true ignominy of our current situation is not that our sovereignty has been taken away from us, it is that we ourselves have squandered it. Let us not seek to assuage our sense of shame in the comforting illusion that powerful nations in Europe are conspiring to become our masters. We are, after all, no great prize for any would-be overlord now. No rational European would willingly take on the task of cleaning up the mess we have made. It is the incompetence of the governments we ourselves elected that has so deeply compromised our capacity to make our own decisions.

They did so, let us recall, from a period when Irish sovereignty had never been stronger. Our national debt was negligible. The mass emigration that had mocked our claims to be a people in control of our own destiny was reversed. A genuine act of national self-determination had occurred in 1998 when both parts of the island voted to accept the Belfast Agreement. The sense of failure and inferiority had been banished, we thought, for good.

To drag this State down from those heights and make it again subject to the decisions of others is an achievement that will not soon be forgiven. It must mark, surely, the ignominious end of a failed administration

For What Died the Sons of Róisín, was it fame?
For What Died the Sons of Róisín, was it fame?
For what flowed Irelands blood in rivers,
That began when Brian chased the Dane,
And did not cease nor has not ceased,
With the brave sons of ´16,
For what died the sons of Róisín, was it fame?

For What Died the Sons of Róisín, was it greed?
For What Died the Sons of Róisín, was it greed?
Was it greed that drove Wolfe Tone to a paupers death in a cell of cold wet stone?
Will German, French or Dutch inscribe the epitaph of Emmet?
When we have sold enough of Ireland to be but strangers in it.
For What Died the Sons of Róisín, was it greed?

To whom do we owe our allegiance today?
To whom do we owe our allegiance today?
To those brave men who fought and died that Róisín live again with pride?
Her sons at home to work and sing,
Her youth to dance and make her valleys ring,
Or the faceless men who for Mark and Dollar,
Betray her to the highest bidder,
To whom do we owe our allegiance today?

For what suffer our patriots today?
For what suffer our patriots today?
They have a language problem, so they say,
How to write "No Trespass" must grieve their heart full sore,
We got rid of one strange language now we are faced with many, many more,
For what suffer our patriots today?

[Billys Boots]

It is the incompetence of the governments we ourselves elected that has so deeply compromised our capacity to make our own decisions.

f**k the dirge-singing - let us all remember this when we are asked (if we ever are again) to register our franchises. 

And woe betide the next gobshite who tells me that there is no alternative. 

[fearglasmor]

Normally I avoid answering the door to the phoney smiling handshaking and baby kissing crew,  cant be bothered with them.

Next time !!   It will be different.

[Declan]

Normally I avoid answering the door to the phoney smiling handshaking and baby kissing crew,  cant be bothered with them.
Next time !!   It will be different.

Got this from a mate - He's going to laminate it and read it to the same lads/lassies

So anyway here we go. I want everyone to memorize the following and repeat ad nauseum until you morph into a true Irishman and patriot

Stop talking the country down. They stopped making land a long time ago. This is not a time to apportion blame. Rent is dead money. We are where we are. Everyone lost the run of themselves. There will be a soft landing. Leave it to the experts. No one could have foresaw the collapse. The bank guarantee will be the cheapest bank rescue in the world. No one could have foresaw the costs that Anglo would incur. Ireland is different. We will all share the pain. NAMA is the only show in town. The banks are well capitalized. We need to recapitalize the banks to get credit flowing again. We need to adequately reward the wonderful entrepreneurship of our best and brightest. The fundamentals of the economy are sound. There is no evidence of any wrongdoing. The banks are fine, it's only a short-term liquidity problem. Regulation is strangling innovation. We need to protect the bondholders or our borrowing costs will go up. Everything we do is in an attempt to protect taxpayers. We can't expect to keep the best talent if we don't pay them these wages. The losses are very annoying but they are manageable. I don't know why people who talk the economy down don't go and commit suicide. The economy has turned the corner. People are just playing politics here. We have a job to do (going forward). Our European colleagues support us fully. We need to don the green jersey and drive it on. The Taoiseach was only a little hoarse and he has my full support. There are no funding difficulties at Irish banks.

[muppet]

The Bailout Brothers and their remaining fan.

[Declan]

The Bailout Brothers

Presume they'll ask the IMF will we get a receipt for that?

http://www.gruupy.com/deals/97?locale=en

[muppet]

Some viewers might this annoying.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7727072816428850581#

[fearglasmor]

I wonder does Mary Harney still think we are closer to Boston than Berlin

[bcarrier]

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article24222.html

ireland will surely need a bailout, although not just yet. For a while the ECB can maintain the illusion of solvency by funneling liquidity to banks via its emergency facilities. That way, bondholders in Germany and France get their pound of flesh before the ship begins to take on water. All the risk-takers and speculators will be "made whole" again before the full-force before the debts are shifted onto Irish workers.

[CiKe]

The EFSF or bilateral loans, whatever the hell we end up with, seem to hold off a liquidity crisis, but Ireland is still f*cked. The way things are unless there is a miracle we aren't going to grow our way out of a deficit, so effectively we just kick things down the road (lets not be too harsh on ourselves about it, the US is doing it and Japan's debt to GDP ratio is simply staggering, and when it goes belly up, Gol help us all...). We may scrape by for another while but I can't see how there isn't going to be a debt restructuring at some stage forcing bondholder haircuts. It would only be right as well - investors who don't do their due diligence properly should not simply be bailed out. A large proportion of these creditors are UK and German though, so hopefully our glorious leaders manage to at least keep the interest down on the loans.

[muppet]

FT - Don't blame the euro for Ireland's mess

[Evil Genius]

IDA's Silicon Valley dream falls flat

November 18, 2010 - 7:00am
by Declan Tierney
Not one job has been created out of an investment of €27 million by the IDA into farmland in Athenry which was earmarked to be Galway's answer to Silicon Valley.

Four years ago the IDA purchased more than 250 acres of land from Teagasc research centre in Athenry for a whopping €108,000 an acre with the intention that it would become giant sized technological park.

And despite the development by the IDA of a multi million euro access road from the M6 motorway – which was opened earlier this week – there are no indications that any jobs will be created on the massive site.

In fact since the lands were acquired by the IDA, the site has been visited by just one industrialist in the past four years.

Indeed, it has been learned by The Connacht Tribune that the lands – earmarked to create 5,000 high tech jobs – have been leased back to Teagasc for grazing and research purposes.

Galway East TD Paul Connaughton, who raised the matter with Enterprise Minister Batt O'Keeffe, said that it was "an extraordinary amount of money" to pay for agricultural land despite the fact that it was in the boom period.

"The public might have been able to stomach that amount of money being paid for land if it realised the amount of jobs that were predicted but that is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future. It was a bad buy", Deputy Connaughton said.

By a computer terminal,
I heard a young girl crying,
Michael you'll be gone before the night.
For you believed the IDA's spiel,
That their plans were all for real,
Now it's Ryanair who call you for your flight.

Lies, lies, have ruined Athenry,
Where once we watched the Euro millions fly.
Our hopes were built so high,
Til they left us high and dry,
Now the Developers all are gone from Athenry.

At another terminal,
I saw a young man e-mail,
Mary we are now no longer free.
It's the FT-SE and the Dow,
And IMF who own us now,
And our children must pay in perpetuity.

[An Gaeilgoir]

Was struck watching the news tonight at how few TDs there were in the Dail today, our parliment is an irrelevance. I know there was only 90 minutes set aside to talk about the banking crisis and the rest of the the session was to discuss the Irish language over the next 20 years. Maybe we should be discussing the German language, it must be more relevent at this stage. Also watching Prime Time tonight, Pat Carey was in all essence a beaten man and Pat Rabbitte gave it to him with both barrels and he couldn't muster up a reply, the soilders of Destiny are finished, hope the door doesn't hit thim on the way out. Although after listening to Frank Mc Brearaty on Pat kenny today, i don't think Gilmore has anything to be crowing about if that is the only type of candidate he can muster up. The IMF will be running this country for the next 3-5 years and if this gives us a stable economy with as low, as a 1-2 per cent growth year on year...........Good. As some one who is luckily, still working in the construction industry with 2 young kids stability is important. Let the IMF root out and get rid of the Gravy train workers and managment who lurk in the shadows of this country, be they the wealthy avoiding their tax obligations through pension schemes etc. or the public sector workers who may now have to be efficient and come up to private sector work rates and pay rates and if this means frontline workers then so be it.

90 Billion for the banks
25 Billion for possible defaults on mortgages
50 odd Billion to run the country


31 Billion coming in on the other side. This is where we as a nation stand tonight. Was just thinking tonight, of my great- grandfather who fought the Black and Tans in the Tourmakeady ambush, what would he make of our nation tonight?