Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 38346 times)

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #675 on: February 13, 2018, 03:58:01 PM »
It doesnít read well for the girl? The witness has blown the doors off Jacksonís claims about digital penetration, and said the victim wasnít terribly drunk.

Those are much more concrete things than the nuances of what looks like a rape and what is a rape. I think our collective iamge of rape is coloured by film, this idea of crying, kicking and screaming and lashing out. Itís done in movies so the emotions are bold and clear for the viewer to understand. Itís a film-making technique. Reactions in real life are much different and that spectrum is quite massive.

The absence of consent is all that is needed for it to be rape and guess what, the victim didnít give her consent.

That's not right.

There are three criteria for Rape

1. The accused must penetrate the vagina, anus or mouth of the victim
2. The victim must not have consented
3. The accused must not have reasonably believed that the victim so consented.


gallsman

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #676 on: February 13, 2018, 03:59:31 PM »
Witness has now said she 100% saw sex (Jackson) but doesn't think the woman looked "frozen with fear".
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Orchard park

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #677 on: February 13, 2018, 04:01:58 PM »
i wonder how many rapes the witness has seen to be an expert as to whether its rape or not.........

its an awful case and will no doubt dramatically reduce reports into the future as people wont go through the trail by defence.......

equally the ROI version where the accused are entitled to their anonymity is far superior to the media circus enabled by naming of those charged in the 6 counties

GetOverTheBar

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #678 on: February 13, 2018, 04:03:00 PM »
Witness has now said she 100% saw sex (Jackson) but doesn't think the woman looked "frozen with fear".

Interestingly Olding hands 100% by his sides also as per witness / Frank Greaney coverage.

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #679 on: February 13, 2018, 04:05:43 PM »
The problem I have reading those Twitter reports is that I can't believe they are the full story of the witnesses evidence. To me they read like defence witnesses but yet have been called by the crown and in the case of one witness seems to have been called to give inadmissible hearsay evidence. I can't for a single second believe that's right. So whilst I don't doubt the honesty of the reporter I still think we are missing out on something.

Similarly it's not clear where this idea that PJ's case is that he digitally penetrated the injured party has come from. From the tweets it looks like the prosecution have adduced this and it didn't come when the defendant would have been putting their case last week again this strikes me as nonsensical and it just couldn't be correct.

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #680 on: February 13, 2018, 04:22:35 PM »
Aye that seems strange alright - the prosecution are talking about what the defendant claims before he has actually claimed it in court. Surely couldn't be the case?

Theres a lot of stuff going on here, woman says didn't look like rape, but apparently prosecution has been allowed to make the focus of it that it contradicts something that paddy jackson has allegedly said?!

gallsman

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #681 on: February 13, 2018, 04:35:04 PM »
They'll have access to his police interviews.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #682 on: February 13, 2018, 04:54:22 PM »
They'll have access to his police interviews.

Yes they will but the purpose of re-examination is to deal with things that arose during cross-examination. They would have had that information before the examination in chief. Again the reporting makes no sense to me

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #683 on: February 13, 2018, 04:59:22 PM »
Trying to pull a fast one to get him on the stand perhaps? It would be hearsay, wouldn't it?

longballin

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #684 on: February 13, 2018, 05:00:45 PM »
If I was falsely accused I'd be running to get into that witness box.

Avondhu star

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #685 on: February 13, 2018, 05:04:59 PM »
If I was falsely accused I'd be running to get into that witness box.
Getting into a box is what has caused all this trouble
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

gallsman

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #686 on: February 13, 2018, 05:05:08 PM »
If I was falsely accused I'd be running to get into that witness box.

Which is why you have a legal team around to advise you.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Frank_The_Tank

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #687 on: February 13, 2018, 05:08:31 PM »
I should also add that we are analysing days and days of evidence in this case based on a few paragraphs of coverage of what individual journalists thought were the key questions and answers. That's a dangerous thing to do. The reports may or may not be accurate and will certainly be subject to the interpretation that the writer amhas tried to put on them.

Nail on head here David. A quick search of this case on twitter throws up some on most sweeping generalisations you could encounter.

ďIf you donít read the newspaper, youíre not informed. If you read the newspaper, youíre mis-informed.Ē

Lads, this isnít Soviet Russia and the court case is being reported by multiple outlets with little to no discrepancies that Iím aware of. This idea of news reports being untrustworthy has leaked into this thread a few times with a bunch of head-nodding like the above greeting it, yet the salient point of the reporting being quite accurate seems to not be made as vociferously. I wonder why?

Looks like the witness was a total damp squib for the folks hoping it would get the frat boys off the hook - what will the next thing they latch onto be? Not looking good for them..

Why do you say that Syf? I haven't seen anything? The person refuting Paddy Jackson is the alleged victim, so I'd expect her to do so. The other witness I've seen said that she didn't see into the room, but her friend did and said 'I've seen a threesome'. Sure isn't that what they are saying?

Like I said was likely, she stumbled on the event and didnít spend long gawking. Whatís the difference between a gang rape and a threesome when you peak into a room for a second?

Deliciously, the witness also confirmed the victim wasnít terribly drunk in the house, which undermines massively what the defendants lawyers were trying to insinuate for the last two weeks.

Sums this poster up.  To use that type of language in relation to a rape case.
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #688 on: February 13, 2018, 05:17:14 PM »
Trying to pull a fast one to get him on the stand perhaps? It would be hearsay, wouldn't it?

No. We don't do trial by ambush. I imagine and I stress imagine that this has either been put in cross examination by the defence last week and not reported on or it's been woefully reported.

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #689 on: February 13, 2018, 06:05:30 PM »
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/rugby-rape-trial-hears-paddy-12019038
The barrister continued: “It is Mr Jackson’s case that he never had sexual intercourse with you on that night. He says he digitally penetrated you while you were having oral sex with Mr Olding. Did he have sex with you?”

Think that answers it then? Being mr Jackson’s *case* means it’s must have been mentioned already in court - his police testimony doesn’t necessarily form part of his case? So just wasn’t reported...