Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 173891 times)

Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #645 on: February 13, 2018, 03:10:29 PM »
I should also add that we are analysing days and days of evidence in this case based on a few paragraphs of coverage of what individual journalists thought were the key questions and answers. That's a dangerous thing to do. The reports may or may not be accurate and will certainly be subject to the interpretation that the writer amhas tried to put on them.

Nail on head here David. A quick search of this case on twitter throws up some on most sweeping generalisations you could encounter.

ďIf you donít read the newspaper, youíre not informed. If you read the newspaper, youíre mis-informed.Ē

Lads, this isnít Soviet Russia and the court case is being reported by multiple outlets with little to no discrepancies that Iím aware of. This idea of news reports being untrustworthy has leaked into this thread a few times with a bunch of head-nodding like the above greeting it, yet the salient point of the reporting being quite accurate seems to not be made as vociferously. I wonder why?

Looks like the witness was a total damp squib for the folks hoping it would get the frat boys off the hook - what will the next thing they latch onto be? Not looking good for them..

Why do you say that Syf? I haven't seen anything? The person refuting Paddy Jackson is the alleged victim, so I'd expect her to do so. The other witness I've seen said that she didn't see into the room, but her friend did and said 'I've seen a threesome'. Sure isn't that what they are saying?

Like I said was likely, she stumbled on the event and didnít spend long gawking. Whatís the difference between a gang rape and a threesome when you peak into a room for a second?

Deliciously, the witness also confirmed the victim wasnít terribly drunk in the house, which undermines massively what the defendants lawyers were trying to insinuate for the last two weeks.

Dinny Breen

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #646 on: February 13, 2018, 03:11:54 PM »
Looks like the case has took a major twist.

I said I wouldn't make up my mind until the end but starting to form an opinion now!!!!

?? What am I missing? All I see is a girl saying she didn't feel threatened, she didn't see in to the room, but her friend said in a jokey fashion I've seen a threesome.

Is there something else?

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Itchy

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #647 on: February 13, 2018, 03:12:25 PM »
Is anyone else uncomfortable reading the grilling that girl is getting today? I know the defence have to ask questions but it seems a very aggressive line today. I dont know how people work as barristers, dont think I could prey on a poor unfortunate person like they do. Smacks of deperation to me from the defence as the risk the girl now getting sympathy for the attack from jurors.

That was the prosecuting barrister who's on her side!!

No its not. I'm referring to the grilling about her "creating a narrative" which was from the defense.

screenexile

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #648 on: February 13, 2018, 03:14:58 PM »
I should also add that we are analysing days and days of evidence in this case based on a few paragraphs of coverage of what individual journalists thought were the key questions and answers. That's a dangerous thing to do. The reports may or may not be accurate and will certainly be subject to the interpretation that the writer amhas tried to put on them.

Nail on head here David. A quick search of this case on twitter throws up some on most sweeping generalisations you could encounter.

ďIf you donít read the newspaper, youíre not informed. If you read the newspaper, youíre mis-informed.Ē

Lads, this isnít Soviet Russia and the court case is being reported by multiple outlets with little to no discrepancies that Iím aware of. This idea of news reports being untrustworthy has leaked into this thread a few times with a bunch of head-nodding like the above greeting it, yet the salient point of the reporting being quite accurate seems to not be made as vociferously. I wonder why?

Looks like the witness was a total damp squib for the folks hoping it would get the frat boys off the hook - what will the next thing they latch onto be? Not looking good for them..

Why do you say that Syf? I haven't seen anything? The person refuting Paddy Jackson is the alleged victim, so I'd expect her to do so. The other witness I've seen said that she didn't see into the room, but her friend did and said 'I've seen a threesome'. Sure isn't that what they are saying?

Like I said was likely, she stumbled on the event and didnít spend long gawking. Whatís the difference between a gang rape and a threesome when you peak into a room for a second?

Deliciously, the witness also confirmed the victim wasnít terribly drunk in the house, which undermines massively what the defendants lawyers were trying to insinuate for the last two weeks.

Strange language to be using in this context!! The victim herself has already said numerous times her recollection is hazy.

We pretty much expected this is what the witness would say it doesn't change much. Jackson says he didn't actually penetrate the girl yet the witness doesn't appear to have been asked about it?!

general_lee

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #649 on: February 13, 2018, 03:15:21 PM »
So the main witness says she didnít think she witnessed a rape...could be crucial

Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #650 on: February 13, 2018, 03:16:10 PM »
So the main witness says she didnít think she witnessed a rape...could be crucial

This is not news.

I see Jackson denied a threesome taking place to the witnessí friend the morning after. He is now claiming Olding was in the room. The witness also saw Jackson thrusting into her - digital penetration my arse.

Lying since square one.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:19:46 PM by Syferus »

AZOffaly

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #651 on: February 13, 2018, 03:18:34 PM »
I'm still not sure to be honest but is Jackson not saying they didn't have penetrative sex and this witness is saying she saw him thrusting into her?

No, the first quote is from the victim. She is denying what Jackson says. The witness said she couldn't see into the room, but her friend said she saw a threesome.

AZOffaly

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #652 on: February 13, 2018, 03:20:01 PM »
So the main witness says she didnít think she witnessed a rape...could be crucial

This is not news.

I see Jackson denied a threesome taking place to the witnessí friend the morning after. He is now claiming Olding was in the room. Lying since square one.

Lads, are ye misreading something, or am I missing something? What I've seen is a witness saying she DIDN'T see into the room, but her friend said she saw a threesome. I don't think this is the witness who is supposed to have seen everything and the girl looked away from.

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #653 on: February 13, 2018, 03:20:45 PM »
Most of what is reported are direct transcripts of what was said which wouldn't seem to leave much room for inaccuracy or interpretation though obviously we're not told every word that was said either.

I thought the underwear being shown to the court was under-reported. I only saw it on Frank Greaney's twitter feed. Can't see any justification for it. Humiliating and irrelevant , assuming it's true of course.

It seems we're all just seeing snippets, and everyone is joining the dots in their own manner. From what I saw one of the barristers was making the case that the bleeding was prior to the events in the house, and also that contrary to a claim the girl had made earlier that she wasn't wearing fake tan, there was fake tan on her clothes, this was the relevance of her clothes being shown.

Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #654 on: February 13, 2018, 03:21:20 PM »
I'm still not sure to be honest but is Jackson not saying they didn't have penetrative sex and this witness is saying she saw him thrusting into her?

No, the first quote is from the victim. She is denying what Jackson says. The witness said she couldn't see into the room, but her friend said she saw a threesome.

Youíre getting confused. The friend of the witness who stayed the night at Jacksonís and the witness have both been called to the stand today.

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #655 on: February 13, 2018, 03:22:22 PM »
So the main witness says she didnít think she witnessed a rape...could be crucial

This is not news.

I see Jackson denied a threesome taking place to the witnessí friend the morning after. He is now claiming Olding was in the room. Lying since square one.

Lads, are ye misreading something, or am I missing something? What I've seen is a witness saying she DIDN'T see into the room, but her friend said she saw a threesome. I don't think this is the witness who is supposed to have seen everything and the girl looked away from.

Aye, you're missing the second witness, the friend referred to in your snippet. At the end of the day, its clear none of us have a clue whats going on - no different to any other subject we all discuss on here I suppose....

Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #656 on: February 13, 2018, 03:25:08 PM »
So the main witness says she didnít think she witnessed a rape...could be crucial

This is not news.

I see Jackson denied a threesome taking place to the witnessí friend the morning after. He is now claiming Olding was in the room. The witness also saw Jackson thrusting into her - digital penetration my arse.
 
Lying since square one.

I see on twitter a lot jumping on the fact that she didn't think it was rape.  However, I agree that the fact that she has contradicted Jackson's evidence is much more significant.  She is very specific in that she saw "thrusting".  The first issue is open to interpretation the second is not.

/Jim.

AZOffaly

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #657 on: February 13, 2018, 03:25:12 PM »
I'm still not sure to be honest but is Jackson not saying they didn't have penetrative sex and this witness is saying she saw him thrusting into her?

No, the first quote is from the victim. She is denying what Jackson says. The witness said she couldn't see into the room, but her friend said she saw a threesome.

Youíre getting confused. The friend of the witness who stayed the night at Jacksonís and the witness have both been called to the stand today.

OK, that was a third girl I think. This is the report I read..

A young woman who attended an afterparty at Paddy Jackson's home said the rugby star "shook his head" and denied taking part in a threesome the morning after the incident.

The woman went back to Jackson's Oakleigh Park home in south Belfast in the early hours of Tuesday June 28, 2016 with two friends.

After having too much to drink, the woman stayed in an upstairs room in Jackson's home while her two friends left in a taxi around 4.25am.

She said she woke up on a sofa the next morning with Stuart Olding lying beside her, and after retrieving her phone, she called one of her friends who had also been at the party.

When asked about the conversation she had with her friend that morning, the woman said her friend told her she had walked into a bedroom and saw people having sex.

Giving evidence at Belfast Crown Court, the woman said her friend said she walked in on a threesome and that she closed the door. She also said her friend told her this in a "jokey manner".

She said she told Jackson that morning about what her friend told her about a threesome. And when asked how Jackson reacted, she said: "He just shook his head and just said 'no, that didn't happen'.

"I thought he knew what I was talking about, but because he shook his head, I didn't pursue it any further."

She said that after vomiting at the party, she went to bed. She also confirmed that nothing physical occurred between herself and Olding, as she didn't know he was lying beside her until she woke up at around 9am.

When asked about the party she attended, she described it as "all quite innocent fun". Telling the court she had never met the woman who also attended the party and who claimed she was raped that night by Jackson and Olding, she described her as "quite nice... quiet."

Also giving evidence earlier in the day was another young woman who attended the party with her two friends.

This witness said she went upstairs with a third woman to look for their friend so they could all go home.

She said that as she and her friend were walking up the stairs to look for their other friend "we could hear some type of noises coming from a room." She said her friend opened the door then closed it again after a few seconds.

When asked what her friend saw in the bedroom, the witness said "she said in a joking way "Oh my God, I have just seen a threesome."'

When asked to elaborate, she said her friend told her it involved Jackson, Olding and the woman at the centre of the claims. The witness added: "She (her friend) said Paddy had joked about joining in."

When she was asked by Jackson's barrister, Brendan Kelly QC, that when they went back down the stairs "did you have any concern as to what was going on in that bedroom?", the woman replied "no".

She was also asked about leaving her friend in the house overnight. She said that after looking for their friend, the two women went back downstairs and called a taxi.

She was asked if they had "any concern" about leaving their friend in the house, to which she replied: "No, we felt safe the whole time". And when asked if she "feared" for her friend's safety, she said "no, definitely not".

AZOffaly

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #658 on: February 13, 2018, 03:26:46 PM »
Neither of those two girls are the 'witness'. One of them only was told about the threesome the next morning, and the other wasn't able to see into the room, but her friend said she'd seen a threesome.

Has the third girl been called?

haranguerer

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #659 on: February 13, 2018, 03:28:00 PM »
ffs yes