Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 173887 times)

brokencrossbar1

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #615 on: February 13, 2018, 12:08:09 PM »
It doesn't look like justice to an eejit like me. It looks like legal trickery and finding loopholes to avoid the real truth being got at.

Should just raise the Chewbacca Defence



Milltown Row2

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #616 on: February 13, 2018, 12:09:00 PM »
It doesn't look like justice to an eejit like me. It looks like legal trickery and finding loopholes to avoid the real truth being got at.

Not giving information at an interview is good advice, their recollection of the night will be hazy due to being drunk, so the smart thing would be to collect your thoughts on the matter and then give a more accurate response to the questions.

They must have shit themselves when the police came to question them... the girl has also been coached on how to answer the questions in court and the lads will also. I would imagine thats the norm but it does not mean they are guilty.

This does not mean I believe they are innocent Syferus and others who do think they are guilty..

As for the loopholes, lawyers will always look at that as a means to get their client off the hook.. there has to be good evidence rather than his word against mine, if 4 or 5 people give the same story and one person has theirs then unless you can prove that story to be wrong who do you believe?
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David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #617 on: February 13, 2018, 12:28:19 PM »
I think there's a clear difference between loopholes and testing the veracity of the evidence. It's often said that the worst thing that can be done in the criminal justice system is to convict an innonence person. In order to prevent that from happening lawyers will be trained to test the evidence to its fullest. Judges are there in crown court cases to have the final word and prevent any sort of smoke or mirrors being applied. Cross examination questions must be relevant to the pertinent issues in the case. I think it's a massive disservice to the fine men and women on all sides who work hard to ensure that we have one of the finest criminal justice systems in the world.

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #618 on: February 13, 2018, 12:31:12 PM »
I should also add that we are analysing days and days of evidence in this case based on a few paragraphs of coverage of what individual journalists thought were the key questions and answers. That's a dangerous thing to do. The reports may or may not be accurate and will certainly be subject to the interpretation that the writer amhas tried to put on them.

Hardy

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #619 on: February 13, 2018, 12:51:54 PM »
... it amazes me that people actually would push for people to be put in a position where they can self incriminate themselves. This is not a fact finding mission unfortunately, this is justice and seeing that justice is done. Justice works on the presumption of innocence and while that is the bedrock of the legal system a defendant will never be compelled to give evidence.

... silence would indeed raise serious questions about whether they have something to hide ...

Not giving information at an interview is good advice ...

This does not mean I believe they are innocent Syferus and others who do think they are guilty..

NEVER talk to the police
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen

Ty4Sam

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #620 on: February 13, 2018, 01:02:43 PM »
I should also add that we are analysing days and days of evidence in this case based on a few paragraphs of coverage of what individual journalists thought were the key questions and answers. That's a dangerous thing to do. The reports may or may not be accurate and will certainly be subject to the interpretation that the writer amhas tried to put on them.

Nail on head here David. A quick search of this case on twitter throws up some on most sweeping generalisations you could encounter.

Tony Baloney

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #621 on: February 13, 2018, 01:05:04 PM »
Can we get a show of hands for who on this thread works in the legal profession so I can make an informed judgement on the shite/non-shite they are posting. Syferus, no need to respond. David McKeown your credentials are verified.

Being from Cross' I'm guessing BC1's experience is as defendant  :P

Itchy

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #622 on: February 13, 2018, 01:12:01 PM »
Is anyone else uncomfortable reading the grilling that girl is getting today? I know the defence have to ask questions but it seems a very aggressive line today. I dont know how people work as barristers, dont think I could prey on a poor unfortunate person like they do. Smacks of deperation to me from the defence as the risk the girl now getting sympathy for the attack from jurors.

screenexile

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #623 on: February 13, 2018, 01:16:49 PM »
Is anyone else uncomfortable reading the grilling that girl is getting today? I know the defence have to ask questions but it seems a very aggressive line today. I dont know how people work as barristers, dont think I could prey on a poor unfortunate person like they do. Smacks of deperation to me from the defence as the risk the girl now getting sympathy for the attack from jurors.

That was the prosecuting barrister who's on her side!!

Asal Mor

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #624 on: February 13, 2018, 01:20:01 PM »
It doesn't look like justice to an eejit like me. It looks like legal trickery and finding loopholes to avoid the real truth being got at.

Not giving information at an interview is good advice, their recollection of the night will be hazy due to being drunk, so the smart thing would be to collect your thoughts on the matter and then give a more accurate response to the questions.

They must have shit themselves when the police came to question them... the girl has also been coached on how to answer the questions in court and the lads will also. I would imagine thats the norm but it does not mean they are guilty.

This does not mean I believe they are innocent Syferus and others who do think they are guilty..

As for the loopholes, lawyers will always look at that as a means to get their client off the hook.. there has to be good evidence rather than his word against mine, if 4 or 5 people give the same story and one person has theirs then unless you can prove that story to be wrong who do you believe?
Well if everyone had to rely on their version of events as given in the original interview surely that would unearth the truth in a case like this. If 4 people give the same version of events before they've had a chance to work out their story you'd have to believe them. The technology is there to make sure all questioning is done in a fair and transparent way.

 If they’re allowed months to confer and go over their stories with their legal teams it negates that. I don't see why the 4 should be believed over the 1 under the current system.

Keyser soze

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #625 on: February 13, 2018, 01:20:08 PM »
Is anyone else uncomfortable reading the grilling that girl is getting today? I know the defence have to ask questions but it seems a very aggressive line today. I dont know how people work as barristers, dont think I could prey on a poor unfortunate person like they do. Smacks of deperation to me from the defence as the risk the girl now getting sympathy for the attack from jurors.

That was the prosecuting barrister who's on her side!!

The levels of stupidity must surely have bottomed out at this stage!!

Asal Mor

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #626 on: February 13, 2018, 01:22:37 PM »
... it amazes me that people actually would push for people to be put in a position where they can self incriminate themselves. This is not a fact finding mission unfortunately, this is justice and seeing that justice is done. Justice works on the presumption of innocence and while that is the bedrock of the legal system a defendant will never be compelled to give evidence.

... silence would indeed raise serious questions about whether they have something to hide ...

Not giving information at an interview is good advice ...

This does not mean I believe they are innocent Syferus and others who do think they are guilty..

NEVER talk to the police
I've no doubt that going no comment is the best course of action for anyone accused of anything under the current system.

WT4E

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #627 on: February 13, 2018, 01:29:41 PM »
I see Jackson story is he didn't have penetrative sex with the girl and just used his hand - surely this would be easy to prove if the normal procedures where followed when she reported rape in the next few days?

Avondhu star

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #628 on: February 13, 2018, 01:38:11 PM »
... it amazes me that people actually would push for people to be put in a position where they can self incriminate themselves. This is not a fact finding mission unfortunately, this is justice and seeing that justice is done. Justice works on the presumption of innocence and while that is the bedrock of the legal system a defendant will never be compelled to give evidence.

... silence would indeed raise serious questions about whether they have something to hide ...

Not giving information at an interview is good advice ...

This does not mean I believe they are innocent Syferus and others who do think they are guilty..

NEVER talk to the police

Bullshit comment.
So if the police arrest you and question regarding a crime at a certain location and time you say nothing. Despite the fact that you were in a location 100 miles away at the time and there are witnesses and CCTV to support your story.
You deserve to be kept in custody for that type of stupidity
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

Avondhu star

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #629 on: February 13, 2018, 01:43:24 PM »
I see Jackson story is he didn't have penetrative sex with the girl and just used his hand - surely this would be easy to prove if the normal procedures where followed when she reported rape in the next few days?
Not necessarily easy to prove.
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you