Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 159495 times)

MoChara

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #720 on: February 14, 2018, 09:02:01 AM »
So be no different if talking about the OJ trial as it happened, views will be posted rightly or wrongly and hearsay will be voiced but ultimately itís down to the 9 men 3 woman and lady Judge!

And us taxpayers paying for it!

The thread wouldn't be what it was without the media. My point is not about the thread. It's human nature. It's about the detail in the media.

Not sure what taxpayers has to do with it. We pay for a criminal justice system. The bit in the middle isn't that relevant.

Whatever the outcome these people are judged probably for the rest of their lives. For whoever the innocent party is that is bad- though we live in a guilty till proven otherwise society these days.


And maybe even for a good while after

Orior

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #721 on: February 14, 2018, 09:40:39 AM »
Are posters not just posting whatís been on the media?

I heard the girls only want back to the house to play Scrabble and they are huge Scrabble fanatics.

You're some twat.

Well MR2 started it.

You said earlier you've daughters? I wonder will you be so quick to infer people are stupid and up for it for having the temerity to dress up for a night out and go to a house party when its your own flesh and blood involved. They'll grow up and wear short skirts and fake tan, they'll get pissed, they'll have sex, maybe even with people they've just met . I wonder if you'll find it all so f**king hilarious then, but I doubt it.

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RedHand88

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #722 on: February 14, 2018, 11:23:02 AM »
Are posters not just posting whatís been on the media?

I heard the girls only want back to the house to play Scrabble and they are huge Scrabble fanatics.

You're some twat.

Well MR2 started it.

You said earlier you've daughters? I wonder will you be so quick to infer people are stupid and up for it for having the temerity to dress up for a night out and go to a house party when its your own flesh and blood involved. They'll grow up and wear short skirts and fake tan, they'll get pissed, they'll have sex, maybe even with people they've just met . I wonder if you'll find it all so f**king hilarious then, but I doubt it.

Of course they wonít. The inability to even attempt to put yourself in the mindset of a woman seems to be beyond a large swath of this forum, be it rape, abortion or even pay gaps. This is in no way a fair society and those comfortable with that unfairness are happy to hide beyond wessel words and innuendo.

But of course if it was their kin the tune would change because their comfortable unchallenged worldview will have been spoiled beyond repair.

Men in the north earn less than women. Is this the pay gap you're referring to?

Hound

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #723 on: February 14, 2018, 11:39:56 AM »
Personally I think it has been a pretty disastrous day for the defence.

The witness who entered the room said she ď100% saw sexĒ between Jackson and the complainant and the description of the position of the three people on the bed tallies perfectly with the complainant's. When people refer to ďsexĒ they are not referring to dry humping, digital penetration or anything else except vaginal sex - that contradicts Jackson's story.

Witness testimony has backed up the complainant about her state of drunkenness or otherwise. That the complainant was "intoxicated" was a central narrative of defence cross examination.

The witness who entered the room has stated that there were no signs of the complainant positively consenting.

A few seconds is more than enough to establish whether sex is going on. It's a lot harder to establish whether a rape is occurring, and anybody who walked in is not going to automatically think of rape - it's highly unlikely they would - so the witness not suspecting a rape was going on is quite consistent with the complainant's story too.

I think the bit about Olding ending up lying on the sofa beside one of the witnesses is also very interesting. Apart from the obvious creepy aspect of him deciding to sleep on a sofa beside a young woman who had vomited at the party and was asleep by the time he'd decided to plonk himself down there (did he try anything on with a woman who was asleep, one wonders?), it undermines the defence story that Olding had previously gone upstairs - and to Jacksonís bedroom no less - to crash out. That was a narrative which already looked very shaky but looks even more so after today.

Why would you just cherry pick all the points that were helpful to the prosecution and completely ignore all the points that were helpful to the defence?

I think your Olding paragraph is absolute nonsense, but the rest is spot on and is indeed good for the prosecution. But you left out the other side, that while the witness did not see consent actively given, what she witnessed seemed consensual. And in now way was the girl frozen. She was actively given Olding oral, while his hands were by his side, so no physical force being used. And when the IP saw the witness, she did not yell for help that these two lads were raping here, instead she turned her head away to hide her face.

That's all very unhelpful for the prosecution, but as you said, if it really is PJ's story that he didn't penetrate, then that would seem to have been caught out as a lie. Doesn't make him guilty but severely questions his credibility. Goes to the earlier comments that saying nothing to the police would have been wiser, as the temptation to exaggerate or lie when being accused of something, if you thought it would help you (regardless of whether you are actually guilty or not), must be great.

StGallsGAA

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #724 on: February 14, 2018, 12:56:29 PM »
PJ has probably lied based on the witness evidence, but that same evidence makes a guilty verdict 'beyond reasonable doubt' unlikely IMO.

johnneycool

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #725 on: February 14, 2018, 01:10:54 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/witness-tells-court-that-she-is-100pc-positive-she-saw-paddy-jackson-have-sex-with-alleged-rape-victim-36602600.html


This trial could go either way as yet.


Rois

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #726 on: February 14, 2018, 01:15:40 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;
Nope, the name I heard was not in that article.   

seafoid

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #727 on: February 14, 2018, 01:49:46 PM »
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rugby-rape-trial-taxi-driver-who-took-alleged-victim-home-tells-court-she-was-sobbing-throughout-the-journey-36603451.html

A taxi driver who took a woman allegedly raped by two Irish rugby players home has told a court she was crying and sobbing throughout the journey.

He was further quizzed about a phone conversation involving Harrison in the car.

Mr Fisher said: "To me, from what I heard, I would explain it as talking as sort of in code."

He said he heard "small snippets".

"I recall him saying to the person on the phone 'She is with me now. She is not good. I'll call you in the morning'," added Mr Fisher.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:52:41 PM by seafoid »
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Avondhu star

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #728 on: February 14, 2018, 01:53:46 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;
Nope, the name I heard was not in that article.   

The alleged victims name cannot be published and any media outlet that would do so would be heavily fined
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AQMP

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #729 on: February 14, 2018, 01:55:17 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/witness-tells-court-that-she-is-100pc-positive-she-saw-paddy-jackson-have-sex-with-alleged-rape-victim-36602600.html


This trial could go either way as yet.

Your informant is wrong.


Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #730 on: February 14, 2018, 01:58:47 PM »
If these fŻckers canít be convicted with this mountain of circumstancial, medical evidence and actual proof of the defendants lying to the police then there is something serious broken with this system.

Frank_The_Tank

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #731 on: February 14, 2018, 02:12:58 PM »
If these fŻckers canít be convicted with this mountain of circumstancial, medical evidence and actual proof of the defendants lying to the police then there is something serious broken with this system.

whats the medical evidence?  some vaginal bleeding which could happen from consensual sex which the prosecution themselves alluded too
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Orior

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #732 on: February 14, 2018, 02:39:36 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;
Nope, the name I heard was not in that article.   

The alleged victims name cannot be published and any media outlet that would do so would be heavily fined

What does IP mean?
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AZOffaly

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #733 on: February 14, 2018, 02:41:30 PM »
Indo gives the names of the other three girls in the house that night, one of which I was informed was the IP;
Nope, the name I heard was not in that article.   

The alleged victims name cannot be published and any media outlet that would do so would be heavily fined

What does IP mean?

Injured Party.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #734 on: February 14, 2018, 02:44:06 PM »
If these fŻckers canít be convicted with this mountain of circumstancial, medical evidence and actual proof of the defendants lying to the police then there is something serious broken with this system.

Surely if they meet all 3 things then they will be convicted?

And calm down, half waiting on seeing you outside Lagan court with a banner ffs
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