NFL Division 1 - 2020

Started by thejuice, January 07, 2020, 12:18:22 AM

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tyrone08

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 23, 2020, 05:47:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
That's a still.

Look I am not 100% sold it's a red but a lot of times it would be given. It wasn't much different to Hogan in the all Ireland hurling final.

If you think that decision was ludicrous then I suggest your objectivity could be called into question. It may have been debatable but it was not ludicrous. Imo many refs would have given that.

I generally am as fair as they come. If it was the other way round I would have expected Galway to get a yellow for it. But there is alot of people talking about this mysterious elbow. The still is at the moment of contact and no elbow was raised is the point I am making.

Anyway still think tyrone would have lost without the red cards. Galway were just too good on the day. That pitch needs a make over though looked very unsafe. Seen alot of players falling over which, anyone of them could break an ankle.

The still isn't at the point of contact. The Galway boy's head is jarred back from the contact so it is definitely after the contact.

https://twitter.com/KevRedCon/status/1231593026738196481?s=19

There's the link to the clip. At no point before or during contact was the elbow raised.

Angelo

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
That's a still.

Look I am not 100% sold it's a red but a lot of times it would be given. It wasn't much different to Hogan in the all Ireland hurling final.

If you think that decision was ludicrous then I suggest your objectivity could be called into question. It may have been debatable but it was not ludicrous. Imo many refs would have given that.

Can you name me an occasion when a player has been sent for a mistimed shoulder recently?

Can't really think of one myself. You see worse challenges go unpunished in every game across the country.

Richie hogan in ai hurling final... though there may have been more elbow.

Incorrect, Richie Hogan was sent off for an elbow to the head - not a shoulder.

Michael Murphy could have been sent off in the opening minutes last night after he left his elbow.

Leaving your elbow out is not a shoulder.  McGeary has his elbow tucked in by his ribcage and it is not in play.

You are clearly imagining an eblow at play here, it's nowhere at all in any replay or still shot.

It's a ridiculous and unprecedented red card.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Farrandeelin

Thank God the Tyrone sending off is the topic of the day because Mayo were awful, bloody awful today. I haven't seen a performance that bad in a long while. I expected us to lose. But to be outscored by 2-11 to 0-5 in the second half, well you know the rest. I hope James Horan learns at least this ONE THING: don't start Jordan Flynn against Kerry, Galway or Tyrone. Nothing really against him, but he literally cannot make any physical contact with any opposition player or there'll be some kind of card handed out. Unfortunately our lack of underage success is coming home to roost.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

tonto1888

Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 06:24:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
That's a still.

Look I am not 100% sold it's a red but a lot of times it would be given. It wasn't much different to Hogan in the all Ireland hurling final.

If you think that decision was ludicrous then I suggest your objectivity could be called into question. It may have been debatable but it was not ludicrous. Imo many refs would have given that.

Can you name me an occasion when a player has been sent for a mistimed shoulder recently?

Can't really think of one myself. You see worse challenges go unpunished in every game across the country.

Richie hogan in ai hurling final... though there may have been more elbow.

Incorrect, Richie Hogan was sent off for an elbow to the head - not a shoulder.

Michael Murphy could have been sent off in the opening minutes last night after he left his elbow.

Leaving your elbow out is not a shoulder.  McGeary has his elbow tucked in by his ribcage and it is not in play.

You are clearly imagining an eblow at play here, it's nowhere at all in any replay or still shot.

It's a ridiculous and unprecedented red card.

Agree about Murphy. He should have seen red. Mooney got a red against us in the championship last year for a similar tackle. At the time I thought he tried to do our player and was livid. However Nugent changed direction very fast and Mooney caught him on the head with the shoulder. Still the right decision in my eyes

imtommygunn

Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 06:24:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
That's a still.

Look I am not 100% sold it's a red but a lot of times it would be given. It wasn't much different to Hogan in the all Ireland hurling final.

If you think that decision was ludicrous then I suggest your objectivity could be called into question. It may have been debatable but it was not ludicrous. Imo many refs would have given that.

Can you name me an occasion when a player has been sent for a mistimed shoulder recently?

Can't really think of one myself. You see worse challenges go unpunished in every game across the country.

Richie hogan in ai hurling final... though there may have been more elbow.

Incorrect, Richie Hogan was sent off for an elbow to the head - not a shoulder.

Michael Murphy could have been sent off in the opening minutes last night after he left his elbow.

Leaving your elbow out is not a shoulder.  McGeary has his elbow tucked in by his ribcage and it is not in play.

You are clearly imagining an eblow at play here, it's nowhere at all in any replay or still shot.

It's a ridiculous and unprecedented red card.

It is ridiculous that you think it is a ridiculous red card. Debatable yes ridiculous no.

Throw ball

As I was in Mullingar today I havent seen McGeary red. I seem to remember though that for health and safety reasons - and to avoid high tackles - it was decided that the tackler was responsible for the safety of the person tackled. If the referee thinks the impact is dangerous it is an automatic red even if the contact is accidental.

Nanderson

Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
That's a still.

Look I am not 100% sold it's a red but a lot of times it would be given. It wasn't much different to Hogan in the all Ireland hurling final.

If you think that decision was ludicrous then I suggest your objectivity could be called into question. It may have been debatable but it was not ludicrous. Imo many refs would have given that.

Can you name me an occasion when a player has been sent for a mistimed shoulder recently?

Can't really think of one myself. You see worse challenges go unpunished in every game across the country.
Mooney vs Armagh in championship last year. Exact same challenge, shouldered into the head of the player turning around. Same punishment. Protect the players. Now everyone move on. McGeary didn't do as much yapping as a lot of people on here have so he has accepted his punishment

twohands!!!

The following is taken from page 42 of the ref's handbook.

Quote
SANCTIONS RELATING TO ILLEGAL CHARGE/COLLISION DETERMINED BY THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA

• If contact is made to an opponent's head
• If opponent has no opportunity to protect himself
• If contact/impact is excessive or causes injury
• If the elbow/forearm/hurley is part of the contact
• If the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent
• The direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact

I would say that the key factor was the fact that the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself and was pretty much blindsided by McGeary.

I think McGeary wasn't helped by the fact that his elbow was some bit up prior to contact and popped up a bit when the contact was made, even though from what I saw watching the game back it didn't make any contact at all.  It probably falls into the categpry of slightly harsh, but given McGeary opted to play the man as opposed to the ball, I wouldn't have huge amounts of sympathy for him.

The bit about "contact/impact being excessive" is a terrible bit of wording on a rule.
Can anyone explain how one ref is mean to interpret this consistently, never mind different refs ?

On a related note, I'd love to see the stats on how effective the shoulder as a skill is in game - in a serious amount of cases it seems to end up being a free to the player in possession. 
Some players seem to love attempting tackles but all too often I think players would be far likelier to win the turn-over if they focused on the ball.
If McGeary had tackled the ball in this situation, I think there is strong odds he would have dispossed the Galway player, given the Galway player has the ball in a somewhat exposed position and is only holding it with one hand and McGeary is pretty much blindsiding him.

Angelo

Quote from: twohands!!! on February 23, 2020, 07:34:58 PM
The following is taken from page 42 of the ref's handbook.

Quote
SANCTIONS RELATING TO ILLEGAL CHARGE/COLLISION DETERMINED BY THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA

• If contact is made to an opponent's head
• If opponent has no opportunity to protect himself
• If contact/impact is excessive or causes injury
• If the elbow/forearm/hurley is part of the contact
• If the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent
• The direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact

I would say that the key factor was the fact that the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself and was pretty much blindsided by McGeary.

I think McGeary wasn't helped by the fact that his elbow was some bit up prior to contact and popped up a bit when the contact was made, even though from what I saw watching the game back it didn't make any contact at all.  It probably falls into the categpry of slightly harsh, but given McGeary opted to play the man as opposed to the ball, I wouldn't have huge amounts of sympathy for him.

The bit about "contact/impact being excessive" is a terrible bit of wording on a rule.
Can anyone explain how one ref is mean to interpret this consistently, never mind different refs ?

On a related note, I'd love to see the stats on how effective the shoulder as a skill is in game - in a serious amount of cases it seems to end up being a free to the player in possession. 
Some players seem to love attempting tackles but all too often I think players would be far likelier to win the turn-over if they focused on the ball.
If McGeary had tackled the ball in this situation, I think there is strong odds he would have dispossed the Galway player, given the Galway player has the ball in a somewhat exposed position and is only holding it with one hand and McGeary is pretty much blindsiding him.

He wasn't blindsided.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Manning18

Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on February 23, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on February 23, 2020, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2020, 03:05:42 PM
That is McShane's season over.

You could see the bone coming out through his sock there.

Think McAliskey had a similar injury with Clonoe a few years back.
Given all the press around his return you could have almost have called this happening to him at some stage this season. Nightmare. Hope he has no long term issues over it

Ya looks a bad break/dislocation.

Will definitely need surgery and can't see him being involved this year now as a result. Best wishes to him as you say.

Leaves Tyrone in a bad way going forward.

The surface in Tuam is very, very bad. The ground completely gave way on him coming down there.

Conor Lane was absolutely scandalous today, think it was after he did everything he could for Galway against Derry a few years back that Brian McIver packed management in at county level. Tyrone will rue the missed chances in the first half before the red card though.

That was the qualifier game that Galway won pulling up by double scores? Yeah he made the difference that day alright

It was the qualifier game where he denied Derry a stonewall penalty with 3 points between the teams in the final ten minutes and which Galway then went straight up the pitch and scored a goal.

He was definitely the difference that day.

Tyrone threw away 4 or 5 goal chances in that first half, when the red card came in the first half and us trailing by 5 it was game up.

Lane was atrocious.

I can understand a complain about a tight call in a close game. Not in absolute hammerings however. I personally thought the red card call today was a bit harsh, but they tend to be given when you go in with that sort of force these days. We all like the fair hard hit but you get it an inch wrong and you're in trouble. Didn't make a jot of difference to the result though. Galway were 5 up at the time. They'd have won that game today with 12 men

moysider

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2020, 06:32:24 PM
Thank God the Tyrone sending off is the topic of the day because Mayo were awful, bloody awful today. I haven't seen a performance that bad in a long while. I expected us to lose. But to be outscored by 2-11 to 0-5 in the second half, well you know the rest. I hope James Horan learns at least this ONE THING: don't start Jordan Flynn against Kerry, Galway or Tyrone. Nothing really against him, but he literally cannot make any physical contact with any opposition player or there'll be some kind of card handed out. Unfortunately our lack of underage success is coming home to roost.

Hmmm. There was only 2 points in it before sending off. It could have been level; Diarmuid had recently missed a very kickable free and Stephen Coen's attempt from a mark was just a ridiculous attempt by anybody that plays football.
Not sure how much lack of underage success is affecting us. We,ve won a minor and under 21 recently enough anyway. Oisín Mullin can play. If a national U20 team was picked Mullin and Towey would be a good shout to be on it. Swanee is coming along nicely, so too Ryan O Donoghue. That's not so bad. Trouble is though Horan seems to want to persist with lads that repeatedly come up a bit shy.
Need to get a bit of pace into 6 position.

Main Street

Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2020, 06:32:24 PM
Thank God the Tyrone sending off is the topic of the day because Mayo were awful, bloody awful today. I haven't seen a performance that bad in a long while. I expected us to lose. But to be outscored by 2-11 to 0-5 in the second half, well you know the rest. I hope James Horan learns at least this ONE THING: don't start Jordan Flynn against Kerry, Galway or Tyrone. Nothing really against him, but he literally cannot make any physical contact with any opposition player or there'll be some kind of card handed out. Unfortunately our lack of underage success is coming home to roost.
It didn't look a strong Mayo team and I guessed they would run out of steam after their first half strenuos efforts at pressing Monaghan in their own half. It was a soft red card card but Monaghan scored an immediate goal to go 5 points up,  the game was over then for Mayo, the end points tally academic. The ref was annoying in constantly disturbing the flow of the game. I thoght that pony tailed one for Mayo was fortunate not to get a straight red card for the deliberate elbow tackle, it was funny to hear the crowd give a collective gasp at the imact.

Captain Obvious

That Galway result the most eye catching one of the weekend. No harm to see Tyrone hammered.

Banty in danger of burning Monaghan out before the summer?

J70

Tyrone should have just shut up shop once they went seven or eight points and two men down. They were never getting back into that game. Instead, they kept getting caught up the field with Galway players left completely unmarked out on the wing to gather a long pass and stroll through to set up easy points.

Unless scoring difference doesn't matter this year?

Walsh is some player. Don't think I can remember a man hitting long distance (or any) frees off the ground with either foot, depending on the side.

Armagh Girl

Awful Injury to McShane....hope he recovers soon.