Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍

[T Fearon]

Is Ireland not recognised as a Christian Country? If so the denominaton of 78% of its population is therefore the state religion.This should be accorded official consitutional recognition once again as was previously the case.

[J70]

Is Ireland not recognised as a Christian Country? If so the denominaton of 78% of its population is therefore the state religion.This should be accorded official consitutional recognition once again as was previously the case.

So beneath all your boasting you're that worried that you feel it needs constitutional protection before the decline gets out of hand?

[T Fearon]

No at all.Its been going for over 2000 years,decline is temporary.The constitution should reflect the overwhelming will of the people,that's all

[Lar Naparka]

You are dead right, I'd have thought that that was so obvious that I needn't stress it.
Of course I wasn't referring to the people of Finglas West as a body. "They were too young to realise that SF got a tremendous reception all over Finglas West but most of their supporters wouldn't get out of bed to go and cast a vote," is what I said and iis what I meant to say. I worked iin Finglas for over three decades and I think I don't need a lecture from anyone  on the moral attributes of the people who live there. During most of that tie, the Shinners  worked really hard try to promote their cause. At election times, the party always had more door to door canvassers, poster hangers and God knows what else than the combined total of all the opposition but everyone knew that those who promised to vote SF were the ones least likely to turn out to vote.
Like Avondhu said, a check of the electoral register is all it takes to find out if I am right or wrong - no rocket science involved.
The problem for SF is even more pronounced in Finglas South as the social problems are more acute.
You can't blame education for the fact that bin collectors won't enter certain streets after 11 am as they would be attacked by some of the local heads who would be waking up around that time. Tat's from a bin man who worked there. For many years, FF was able to get two seats in that constituency by superb vote management where SF, despite the promises of support, fell short every time until FF imploded.
That's also on the record.

It was not obvious but I accept I should have taken it for granted you were isolating certain people.
I do take issue with the reason for not voting being laziness. It's too big an issue and too common a phenomenon to be that simple.
If you ask all the non voters outside of an election environment the majority by far will say 'It'll make no difference'. However, if you canvass and ask the same people at the door they will tell you they will vote for you. THis is a tactic to avoid confrontation, or to avoid a discussion of no interest in the topic.
In a working class area I live in in north Dublin FF usually get the biggest return for the least effort. This is about politics, campaign style, experience and familiarity. Not about the amount of people on the ground.
Brian Lenihan told me I was wasting my time canvassing a particular area. His approach was to go into the local every 6 months and buy a few pints. He was a massive figure in politics at the time. This approach worked. That is down to voter education only. In other areas there would be political condition to winning a vote.
WTF is with that binman story?
Post 11am leaves plenty of time to vote.

I think that was the advice the Shinner veteran was giving his young (17+ or so ) fellow canvassers. People on the doorstep would promise to vote for anyone who knocked on their door. Some would promise their vote to four or five different candidates and the likelihood was that they wouldn't bother their posteriors to to get out and vote for anyone.
That's been the way for generations and not only in Finglas South  or West but Pat Carey and Noel Ahern knew their supporters and knew who to target and each had his own part of the constituency to work on. You are right that the number of people on the ground mattered little if they went about looking for support in an indiscriminate fashion.
But I can't accept that voter apathy can be put down to a lack of voter education only. There are complex reasons for this and academic education wouldn't cure the problem. Just as the educational system can't be blamed for the low numbers from working class areas going on to third level education. If the prevailing mindset in an area is to have teenagers being put to work and bringing home a pay packet as early as possible, then all the efforts of schools to change that will count for little. Lots have no interest in current or political affairs because their parents hadn't either.
I would bet that in your own area, there is at least one teacher managing a Gaelic team in any primary school you know. Yet, soccer is the most popular sport in working class Dublin by a long distance. If the school's philosophy will have little effect unless it has the backing of the local community.
BTW,  the 11 am deadline has nothing to do with elections. I am referring to what would happen every week!
One man, as inoffensive as you'd meet, used to drive a little council truck emptying rubbish containers on the streets and lampposts. He got out one day on one of the streets I'm talking about to cross the road to pick up a bag of rubbish thrown on the street. When he got out of his cab, a guy came out of a nearby house, hopped into his truck and drove straight at a bus stop pole. He wrecked both bus stop and truck and then went back into his gaff again. No word of any sort or threatening gesture or anything like that. Odds were that he was high on something or other but the fact remains that it wasn't a lack of education that caused him to do what he did.

[Lar Naparka]

With 2,000,000,000 believers around the globe.
Why do the non believers always have to throw in the gratuitous insult.
Why not simply say I don't believe in God, Bible, Koran, Buddha whatever...

I would imagine it's because Tony insists on starting nonsensical threads, knowing damn well that many will fall for it and get annoyed so he can sit back and enjoy watching others losing their cool and falling for his ruse over and over again.
If you had no trolling and goading, you'd have no outbursts of anti-Catholic feeling.
Anybody who could look at a group of Jewish children in a concentration and say there weren't in such a camp because they were smiling. The picture was probably taken at a football match back in the '50s.
Not even in the arse end of civilisation or wherever Tony comes from, you wouldn't find children hemmed in by barbed wire fences in the 50s or any other time.
If you want gratuitous insults, look in the direction of Poyntz Pass first.

[vallankumous]

I think that was the advice the Shinner veteran was giving his young (17+ or so ) fellow canvassers. People on the doorstep would promise to vote for anyone who knocked on their door. Some would promise their vote to four or five different candidates and the likelihood was that they wouldn't bother their posteriors to to get out and vote for anyone.
That's been the way for generations and not only in Finglas South  or West but Pat Carey and Noel Ahern knew their supporters and knew who to target and each had his own part of the constituency to work on. You are right that the number of people on the ground mattered little if they went about looking for support in an indiscriminate fashion.
But I can't accept that voter apathy can be put down to a lack of voter education only. There are complex reasons for this and academic education wouldn't cure the problem. Just as the educational system can't be blamed for the low numbers from working class areas going on to third level education. If the prevailing mindset in an area is to have teenagers being put to work and bringing home a pay packet as early as possible, then all the efforts of schools to change that will count for little. Lots have no interest in current or political affairs because their parents hadn't either.
I would bet that in your own area, there is at least one teacher managing a Gaelic team in any primary school you know. Yet, soccer is the most popular sport in working class Dublin by a long distance. If the school's philosophy will have little effect unless it has the backing of the local community.
BTW,  the 11 am deadline has nothing to do with elections. I am referring to what would happen every week!
One man, as inoffensive as you'd meet, used to drive a little council truck emptying rubbish containers on the streets and lampposts. He got out one day on one of the streets I'm talking about to cross the road to pick up a bag of rubbish thrown on the street. When he got out of his cab, a guy came out of a nearby house, hopped into his truck and drove straight at a bus stop pole. He wrecked both bus stop and truck and then went back into his gaff again. No word of any sort or threatening gesture or anything like that. Odds were that he was high on something or other but the fact remains that it wasn't a lack of education that caused him to do what he did.

I see no relevance in the bin man story to my argument. If i'm missing something I'm honestly innocent of it.

I suppose I don't define academic and voter education along the same lines. There are more academic young people than there are academic elderly yet the elderly have a greater voting turnout.
Voter education is something different. This is why the elderly are more voter aware, it's accumulated education. There's a wider community education that can change voter apathy. In the last local election Ladyswell in Mullhuddart rise in turnout from 29% to above 50%. This was a product of voter education. Now, it might return to 29% but it is a sign that education works. The same thing happened over a longer period in Corduff and for similar reasons. One being a local candidate, a voter campaign by the local CDC and the strong campaigns run by SF and the Socialist party. I'll bet now that FF see these figures these areas will be awarded canvass time. I welcome this.

Yes, I'd say there's a lot of inherited voter apathy as there is inherited voter preference.

In my area there is a teacher teaching GAA yet the children do play soccer. I don't agree that it's the reasons you say though. The teachers in my area do not live in the area. It's the local activists that provide the after school activity. These GAA teachers in my local school are members and volunteers of GAA clubs outside their school area, There are all sorts of sports associated with working class areas available but the GAA is weak. Again though, I define voter education as mostly community based rather than school based.

AS an after thought an non related but just as we are talking about social class and voting.
I have canvassed many people over the years. There is a huge self misrepresentation regarding class. There are many professionals struggling daily to meet their bills, with rent, mortgage, childcare, utilities etc who believe they are middle class. If you are finding your wage is paying for your life without an excess you are working class. Many of these people will hear politicians talk about the squeezed middle class. If you are feeling squeezed you are not middle class.
There is also a small under class that see them selves as working class. They are not.

After the crash I canvassed one man who really attacked me. He said there is no way he is voting left as they only want to tax the middle class. He claimed he was in negative equity and that his wife had lost her job in the crash  and was struggling. When I told him he sounded perfectly working class he was insulted. I tried to explain it to him but he was too shocked to hear himself described as working class. I hope I planted a seed though.

[J70]

No at all.Its been going for over 2000 years,decline is temporary.The constitution should reflect the overwhelming will of the people,that's all

So the overwhelming will of the people is that the Catholic Church be given constitutional protection or recognition?

What has changed since a much more conservative and catholic and insular populace approved the Fifth Amendment in 1972?

[T Fearon]

The fifth amendment was wrong,as it contradicted the reality of the fact that the Catholic Church is the guardian of the faith of the vast majority of the Irish people.I actually admire the British and Unionists for prioritising and defending their religious beliefs

[Rossfan]

Not much religious beliefs in Britain.
I think Muslims and Catholics are now the biggest religions.
As for Unionists beliefs.... Poots,  Orange Order... no further comment necessary.

[Lar Naparka]

I think that was the advice the Shinner veteran was giving his young (17+ or so ) fellow canvassers. People on the doorstep would promise to vote for anyone who knocked on their door. Some would promise their vote to four or five different candidates and the likelihood was that they wouldn't bother their posteriors to to get out and vote for anyone.
That's been the way for generations and not only in Finglas South  or West but Pat Carey and Noel Ahern knew their supporters and knew who to target and each had his own part of the constituency to work on. You are right that the number of people on the ground mattered little if they went about looking for support in an indiscriminate fashion.
But I can't accept that voter apathy can be put down to a lack of voter education only. There are complex reasons for this and academic education wouldn't cure the problem. Just as the educational system can't be blamed for the low numbers from working class areas going on to third level education. If the prevailing mindset in an area is to have teenagers being put to work and bringing home a pay packet as early as possible, then all the efforts of schools to change that will count for little. Lots have no interest in current or political affairs because their parents hadn't either.
I would bet that in your own area, there is at least one teacher managing a Gaelic team in any primary school you know. Yet, soccer is the most popular sport in working class Dublin by a long distance. If the school's philosophy will have little effect unless it has the backing of the local community.
BTW,  the 11 am deadline has nothing to do with elections. I am referring to what would happen every week!
One man, as inoffensive as you'd meet, used to drive a little council truck emptying rubbish containers on the streets and lampposts. He got out one day on one of the streets I'm talking about to cross the road to pick up a bag of rubbish thrown on the street. When he got out of his cab, a guy came out of a nearby house, hopped into his truck and drove straight at a bus stop pole. He wrecked both bus stop and truck and then went back into his gaff again. No word of any sort or threatening gesture or anything like that. Odds were that he was high on something or other but the fact remains that it wasn't a lack of education that caused him to do what he did.

I see no relevance in the bin man story to my argument. If i'm missing something I'm honestly innocent of it.

I suppose I don't define academic and voter education along the same lines. There are more academic young people than there are academic elderly yet the elderly have a greater voting turnout.
Voter education is something different. This is why the elderly are more voter aware, it's accumulated education. There's a wider community education that can change voter apathy. In the last local election Ladyswell in Mullhuddart rise in turnout from 29% to above 50%. This was a product of voter education. Now, it might return to 29% but it is a sign that education works. The same thing happened over a longer period in Corduff and for similar reasons. One being a local candidate, a voter campaign by the local CDC and the strong campaigns run by SF and the Socialist party. I'll bet now that FF see these figures these areas will be awarded canvass time. I welcome this.

Yes, I'd say there's a lot of inherited voter apathy as there is inherited voter preference.

In my area there is a teacher teaching GAA yet the children do play soccer. I don't agree that it's the reasons you say though. The teachers in my area do not live in the area. It's the local activists that provide the after school activity. These GAA teachers in my local school are members and volunteers of GAA clubs outside their school area, There are all sorts of sports associated with working class areas available but the GAA is weak. Again though, I define voter education as mostly community based rather than school based.

AS an after thought an non related but just as we are talking about social class and voting.
I have canvassed many people over the years. There is a huge self misrepresentation regarding class. There are many professionals struggling daily to meet their bills, with rent, mortgage, childcare, utilities etc who believe they are middle class. If you are finding your wage is paying for your life without an excess you are working class. Many of these people will hear politicians talk about the squeezed middle class. If you are feeling squeezed you are not middle class.
There is also a small under class that see them selves as working class. They are not.

After the crash I canvassed one man who really attacked me. He said there is no way he is voting left as they only want to tax the middle class. He claimed he was in negative equity and that his wife had lost her job in the crash  and was struggling. When I told him he sounded perfectly working class he was insulted. I tried to explain it to him but he was too shocked to hear himself described as working class. I hope I planted a seed though.

I had thought that you were blaming a lack of academic education for many people in Finglas South not taking the time and trouble to cast their votes. From my experience, schools get blamed for lots of things but voter apathy can't be put down to a failure of the school system in any sense.
The younger canvasser were ecstatic at the reaction they were getting in parts of Finglas, especially in the south, whereas the older, more experienced guy knew the story only too well. There are pockets where many of those who live there are so antisocial that their behaviour is irrational and bin men are not the only ones to get a hostile reaction if they venture in after the more unsavoury elements have got out of bed. Postmen, pizza delivery boys and all sorts of people who have business to attend to in the area get the same reaction. According to the older man, those are the very ones who come to him demanding that he do something about a whole range of local issues for them and, without fail, promise to vote for his party at the next election.
There are social problems there that schools have no control over. In any region where the schools' philosophy is at odds with the feelings of the community, the schools will always lose out.
This is what I wrote about the status of GAA in local schools and I know I inserted an unnecessary and confusing "if" but other than that, I see no difference between us.
"I would bet that in your own area, there is at least one teacher managing a Gaelic team in any primary school you know. Yet, soccer is the most popular sport in working class Dublin by a long distance. If the school's philosophy will have little effect unless it has the backing of the local community."
I will take it that your are familiar with Cumann na mBunscol and the work teachers do in organising Gaelic competitions in almost all schools, boys and girls, in the country and not only in Dublin.As it is, all this voluntary work doesn't detract from the fact that soccer is, was and will continue to be, the most popular field sport in the capital.
LIke in your school, the teacher does live in the community and doesn't know its values. All kids that play soccer locally are probably playing with their friends and their manager will be a father or uncle of one or several of them. The clubhouse may be an old container stuck in the corner of a council field somewhere but the fact is they are all know each other. Children who play GAA won't have the same easy familiarity with all those who play with them.
My point there, arising from what I thought was your assertion that education can cure social ills, is that schools no matter how hard teachers try will never counter the views of the local attitudes if there is a difference between them.

[Lar Naparka]

Actually it all began at the point here Tony asserted that since 78% of those surveyed said they were Catholic then it naturally follows that since they said it, they must still have a lingering attachment to the Catholic faith and many will return to it someday. (Not exactly his words but that's his meaning and immediately I thought of the old SF campaigner and his opinion of what those who promise their votes intend to do on election day.)

[mrdeeds]

Is Ireland not recognised as a Christian Country? If so the denominaton of 78% of its population is therefore the state religion.This should be accorded official consitutional recognition once again as was previously the case.

Yeah let's give Catholicism a special position. It's not like they would abuse their position and create scandals. We'll ban womens rights, unmarried mothers will be rounded up and locked away and sell their kids, children are fair game for priests and then we can move them priests to another parish. Divorce and contraception out the window. LGBT rights no thank you. Catholicism where you literally eat the flesh of Jesus.

What's the most ridiculous story or contradiction from the Bible story book I wonder.

[Lar Naparka]

I think that was the advice the Shinner veteran was giving his young (17+ or so ) fellow canvassers. People on the doorstep would promise to vote for anyone who knocked on their door. Some would promise their vote to four or five different candidates and the likelihood was that they wouldn't bother their posteriors to to get out and vote for anyone.
That's been the way for generations and not only in Finglas South  or West but Pat Carey and Noel Ahern knew their supporters and knew who to target and each had his own part of the constituency to work on. You are right that the number of people on the ground mattered little if they went about looking for support in an indiscriminate fashion.
But I can't accept that voter apathy can be put down to a lack of voter education only. There are complex reasons for this and academic education wouldn't cure the problem. Just as the educational system can't be blamed for the low numbers from working class areas going on to third level education. If the prevailing mindset in an area is to have teenagers being put to work and bringing home a pay packet as early as possible, then all the efforts of schools to change that will count for little. Lots have no interest in current or political affairs because their parents hadn't either.
I would bet that in your own area, there is at least one teacher managing a Gaelic team in any primary school you know. Yet, soccer is the most popular sport in working class Dublin by a long distance. If the school's philosophy will have little effect unless it has the backing of the local community.
BTW,  the 11 am deadline has nothing to do with elections. I am referring to what would happen every week!
One man, as inoffensive as you'd meet, used to drive a little council truck emptying rubbish containers on the streets and lampposts. He got out one day on one of the streets I'm talking about to cross the road to pick up a bag of rubbish thrown on the street. When he got out of his cab, a guy came out of a nearby house, hopped into his truck and drove straight at a bus stop pole. He wrecked both bus stop and truck and then went back into his gaff again. No word of any sort or threatening gesture or anything like that. Odds were that he was high on something or other but the fact remains that it wasn't a lack of education that caused him to do what he did.

I see no relevance in the bin man story to my argument. If i'm missing something I'm honestly innocent of it.

I suppose I don't define academic and voter education along the same lines. There are more academic young people than there are academic elderly yet the elderly have a greater voting turnout.
Voter education is something different. This is why the elderly are more voter aware, it's accumulated education. There's a wider community education that can change voter apathy. In the last local election Ladyswell in Mullhuddart rise in turnout from 29% to above 50%. This was a product of voter education. Now, it might return to 29% but it is a sign that education works. The same thing happened over a longer period in Corduff and for similar reasons. One being a local candidate, a voter campaign by the local CDC and the strong campaigns run by SF and the Socialist party. I'll bet now that FF see these figures these areas will be awarded canvass time. I welcome this.

Yes, I'd say there's a lot of inherited voter apathy as there is inherited voter preference.

In my area there is a teacher teaching GAA yet the children do play soccer. I don't agree that it's the reasons you say though. The teachers in my area do not live in the area. It's the local activists that provide the after school activity. These GAA teachers in my local school are members and volunteers of GAA clubs outside their school area, There are all sorts of sports associated with working class areas available but the GAA is weak. Again though, I define voter education as mostly community based rather than school based.

AS an after thought an non related but just as we are talking about social class and voting.
I have canvassed many people over the years. There is a huge self misrepresentation regarding class. There are many professionals struggling daily to meet their bills, with rent, mortgage, childcare, utilities etc who believe they are middle class. If you are finding your wage is paying for your life without an excess you are working class. Many of these people will hear politicians talk about the squeezed middle class. If you are feeling squeezed you are not middle class.
There is also a small under class that see them selves as working class. They are not.

After the crash I canvassed one man who really attacked me. He said there is no way he is voting left as they only want to tax the middle class. He claimed he was in negative equity and that his wife had lost her job in the crash  and was struggling. When I told him he sounded perfectly working class he was insulted. I tried to explain it to him but he was too shocked to hear himself described as working class. I hope I planted a seed though.

I guess there is no point in doing this topic to death. Tony has shut up at last and I don't wanna start him off again. However, I just noticed an omission by me that I'd like to rectify.
I was having three pretty interesting arguments at the same time, all with good debaters so I skipped a sentence in an earlier reply to you. I know my reference to the antisocial brigade in Finglas South makes little sense as I didn't put it in context. When I said it was laziness that stopped many SF supporters going out to vote, you disagreed and said it was a lack of voter education. (Or something like that.)
When I read that, I had a mental picture of some poor do-gooder arriving in one of the areas and the reception he'd get if began  knocking on doors to spread his message.
I doubt he'd get further than the first doorstep!

[ONeill]

What's the most ridiculous story or contradiction from the Bible story book I wonder.

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. "Get out of here, baldy!" they said. "Get out of here, baldy!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

[johnneycool]

Catholic Ireland about to relax the Easter drinking laws, pubs and clubs will now be allowed to open on Good Friday, I'm surprised that the 78% haven't kicked up a fuss!