In the absence of any hurling thread(s) here, I said I'd plant a flag for the poor relation.
Any of the old posters still here? BT? HoH, Timmy, the Offaly bies?
Come back to us! I know it's quiet yet but we'll be motoring soon enough....
I'd really like to know more about what Paudie is doing, I've never heard a bad word about his coaching sessions but surely as hurling development officer he is co-ordinating coaches around the country, not flying around trying to do it all himself. i'd like to know more about what the new full time regional development officers are up to as well as paudie, you know, what the the overall plan is, not just his work on the ground.
Sounds to be the right man for the job, remains to be seen if he can deliver, but wish him all the best, Hopefully he can improve the structures within ulster were hurling boards hold little or no clout.
Happy new year OB. I'm still here but not so active of late (as theres little enough about hurling as you rightly said). I don't have anything on my mind hurling-wise and hence haven't much to be saying.
Good to see David Kennedy back in a county jersey!!
I think the KK lads are off in New Zealand at the moment. Not back until just before the Walsh Cup which I'm sure they'll be all out to defend.
Looking forward to the season though. Should be a good one with an improved Tipp, Limerick and Galway. Cork are potentially in flux and KK have to overcome the defending champions hoodoo (which each of the last 2 did in fairness). I'd be unsure what to expect from Waterford and Clare. The banner should be well and truly in rebuilding given their recent retirements and I can't ever see Waterford doing anything of note until theres an attitude readjustment (basically what Brian Corcoran said about them was right!!).
i was wondering where all the hurling posters had gone, good to see yous back.
Well lads. Thanks be to God some of ye are still hanging around. The general sense from the Faithful is that McIntyre has performed much needed, albeit drastic, surgery on the senior panel. Lads like Michael Cordial, Damien Murray and a few other eyebrow raisers have been given the road, in favour of some younger lads that are mad keen.
A lot has been made of the 31 point drubbing in 2005, but to be honest, after a bright league campaign, the hammerings that Clare and Limerick (a poor Limerick at the time) handed out to us were almost as bad. Last year the appetite was gone after the Wexford disappointment. That's inexcusable for Offaly, and with our scant resources, if we don't have appetite, we have nothing. Young wristy hurlers are all very well, but Offaly's success is inextricably linked with the basic elements of defending, which only come about if you are hungry enough to put the work in. Blocking, hooking, harrying. It looked like we were getting back to those things in the League, but when the ground turned dry, when Offaly traditionally over the past 20 years come into their prime, there was nothing there.
Restoring the hunger will not a winning team make, but it may lay the foundations for a winning team in the near future. The skills are there, but you can't hurl without the ball.
Up here in Antrim all the focus will be on the national league to see what if any miracles the new "dream team" of woody and sambo can achieve. The change of manager was very bitter and a poor national league may well lead to the knives being out and another round of not very helpful round of infighting. Having said that supporters in Antrim are fickle and a couple of good league results could soon swing the hurling public back behind the team. We will not be contenders for Liam but being competitive at senior level would be a big step forward.
Speaking to one of the panellist, and he's saying training is going well and he sees a definite improvement since they started, all the lads seem to be doing there own training on top of the work being done at the Ballymena complex.
Looking to head down for overnight stay in Galway for the league game, I've got over the selection of the managers now and will get behind the current boss's. most people had no problem with the men in at the minute just the timing.
Slow, is your team looking for any challenge games in February? If so let me know.
How'ye all. I see Henry Sheff did not travel to New Zealand along with the Cats. I kinda knew some of them would take the early training in preperation for Laois in the championship a bit serious. I was down there in the parish next door to Nicky Brennans the other week in a place called Ballyfoyle and took the back road into Kilkenny. By the amount of building going on there will be enough hurlers in the place for generations to come.
As for Paudi Butler, all the mayhem he had to deal with in Laois will have given him as much experience in his job as he gave us !! Me still thinks that the GAA should be giving some of those 800 tickets they give to past GAA presidents to some of the national school teachers whose teams feature in underage - or encouraging hurling more in Primary Schools by whatever means they can cajole the teachers to do more.
I think Laois will put up a good show this year in the hurling and while they may not have any silverware at the end I expect to see a marked progress and the same with Dublin and Offaly. Anyway, heres hoping for a good one and if you want to motivate your team take out the shotgun, place a few oil cans on a stump, pretend they are Ger Loughnanes head and away you go. He said it works.
SUNDAY 11th FEBRUARY 2007
All-Ireland Club JHC Semi-Final
SKEHANA (GALWAY) v CLOONEY GAELS (ANTRIM) - [MULLINGAR, 12:45pm]
All-Ireland Club SHC Semi-Final
LOUGHREA (GALWAY) v RUAIRI ÓG, CUSHENDALL (ANTRIM) - [MULLINGAR, 2:30pm]
All-Ireland Club IHC Semi-Final
KILLIMORDALY (GALWAY) v GORT NA MÓNA (ANTRIM) - [NAVAN, 1:00pm]
That's a nice double header in Mullingar. The Ulster junior champions always struggle at the semi final stage. Junior in the rest of Ireland is far higher standard than in Ulster. I'd expect Cushendall to give Loughrea a good game but Ahoghill will be out classed.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on January 10, 2007, 09:37:24 AM
Me still thinks that the GAA should be giving some of those 800 tickets they give to past GAA presidents to some of the national school teachers whose teams feature in underage - or encouraging hurling more in Primary Schools by whatever means they can cajole the teachers to do more.
Agree with that Bud. Was at our primary school nativity play a few weeks back (just before christmas in fact :) ) and was amazed at the number of boys who didn't play the game. The are alot more young footballers training now than hurlers now even though from a membership point of view we would be viewed as hurling club who play a bit of football. Do you think the danger element is leading kids to opt for the lesser sport (no flames please - this is a hurling thread)? I'd be interested to hear how we could possibly address this issue.
Another big issue for hurling is the general reduction in the size of families, which in turn means those families with a hurling tradition are taking up a smaller slice of club panels. The big task for hurling is to get non traditional families enthused about the game and help them understand the effort required at home to make the game become enjoyable and positive outlet for their children. Its so easy to see even at 7 year of age the ones who practice at home from those who pick up the stick once or twice a week. To the non traditional families training is a baby siting exercise in our club at the moment. We're hoping to change that over time.
My third issue within our club is the lack of coaches (from both a bodies on the ground perspective and a coaching standards point of view). Our juvenile hurlers need serious work over the next 5 years. It will take dedicated quality coaching to turn them round. We will have failed these kids if we don't grasp the nettle now. Here's hoping
A shortage of qualitry coaches is a major problem all over. Some of the larger clubs in terms of membership cann't get anyone prepared to look after the kidsat all, never mind quality coaches. Even getting parents to drive to away matches is a struggle. They expect the club volunteers to do it all for a membership fee of a £10 a year!
The only way to improve hurling in the north is through coaching at a young age. That's where the focus of the association needs to be.
Quote from: Guillem2 on January 10, 2007, 01:28:32 PM
A shortage of qualitry coaches is a major problem all over. Some of the larger clubs in terms of membership cann't get anyone prepared to look after the kidsat all, never mind quality coaches. Even getting parents to drive to away matches is a struggle. They expect the club volunteers to do it all for a membership fee of a £10 a year!
The only way to improve hurling in the north is through coaching at a young age. That's where the focus of the association needs to be.
Although quality coaching from a young age is only part of the package G2. These take it or leave it parents take me to the fair. For the life of me I cannot understand why these people are not trying to invest in their child future by showing a bit of interest in what they are doing and actively encouraging them. So many of todays parents think that buying a playstation and subscribing to sky sports makes them good parents. >:(
The days of plenty of people giving up their free time is gone. I've been helping senior and juvenile teams for a number of years and still playing, when members of the club sit on their holes expecting or wondering why the kids are not as good as they were when they were that age. On a Saturday (juvenile football) morning at my club we have any amount of good ex and current senior players coming down to coach the next generation and one coach is looking after up to 6/7 kids.
Sunday (juvenile hurling) mornings! completely different three coaches looking after sometimes up to fifty kids. Madness!!! Football is simple bag of balls some bibs and cones and the kids are off playing away. Hurling, well that's a different matter. I believe some clubs wish they did not play hurling as it cost an absolute fortune in equipment, jerseys, balls and sticks, not to mention juvenile helmets. Another area which is letting us down is the schools, most teachers now days are women (no offence to women posters) they don't have the same interest in taking the kids hurling after school. Also parents seem to be afraid to let their wee darlings play as they see it as a dangerous sport. And we know different. Not too much footage of handbags on UTV when hurling is on.
Anyway got that of my chest. Kids are back this weekend indoor hurling camps Saturday and Sunday.
I see the North Antrim indoor competions are on this week. Great to see the Donegal clubs, Strabane & Ballygalget all travelling up for it. That takes a bit of commitment for a 10.00am start in Ballymoney or Ballymena. Is the Pearse's team the club from New Lodge that folded a few years ago. If it is, good to see them back.
yes, Pearse's started back last year at under 12.
Quote from: milltown row on January 10, 2007, 02:04:40 PM
Also parents seem to be afraid to let their wee darlings play as they see it as a dangerous sport. And we know different. Not too much footage of handbags on UTV when hurling is on.
In that case it's a wonder anyone plays rugby. have you seen their ears!
Firstly I think that GAA is given a bad image in the media with regards injuries etc, ever notice a rugby player getting injured they rarely show the replay incase mammies take their kids away from the sport.
Anyway, back to hurling. I'm from Paudie's club, Drom and Inch. And I know he's following an approach that he himself tried and succeeded in doing.
His background so to start. He was a teacher in a 3-teacher primary school, in a parish of 450 approx, was lower population before that. He arrived into our school when I was three and retired there in June to take up this position. Now when he took over in the school he also became involved in the juvenile club as he had sons that were young. Obviously when he arrived in the school the 6th class has bad habits that were hard to get rid of etc, but from the minute he arrived he banned soccer and we only played gaelic football in winter and coming up to a football match. At school which started at half nine, every child would arrive at 9 and he's be out in the yard hurling till half 9, same at small break, lunch and after school. Always had his pupils hurling and he was always out hurling with them. By the time I got to fourth class we had gone from the lower leagues in the school championship to be competing and finally winning against team's that were from towns and 4 to 500 students, we had 60. Always always teaching the skills and holding the proper grip and playing hurling the right way. He even introduced a hurley with a glove superglued to the handle of the hurley so the play physically couldn't switch hands!
I often though about it, and could it be possible, if say he was born in mayo, but from that small primary school it has produced currently 4 intercounty senior hurlers (whether they are of intercounty standard is no up top me) also an all-star camogie player who captained Tipperary camogie to an all Ireland. Another was on the county minors that won the all-ireland last year. All from a fart of a school and many of them players might not have the traditional hurling in them that was handed down from generation to generation, they were raw and without and major influence from home, have become the best in the sport. If it can happen in that school in can happen in any school in any parish around the country.
How?? school's.. primary schools. Don't think secondary schools had much of an influence because its split 50/50 as to where they went to and some of the very good lads went to schools where hurling isn't given number 1 priority. Also the very good coaching they got growing up underage, paudie would have taken, u12, 14, 16 and even minor all in the one year such was his dedication. All this hasn't yet produced a senior county title for the club, but 2 years ago in the county final, 13 out of the 15 that started were all graduated from that primary school, and 80% of the subs bench. This work underage has meant our club went from a poor intermediate club to having a good senior, intermediate and junior a teams. With the majority of players all coming from the side of the parish that paudie lives in. His coaching has also caught on with numerous players he coached up along, two are currently PE teachers, another is GAA development officer and will be a top coach in the future and they all work closely with paudie and are basically carbon copies of what he does. That is how infectious his training is.
However, the down side to his new job is now the club is going to suffer. There's no male in the primary school he once controlled and one young lads potential to become a top hurler has just slashed by about 75%. The club is going to hold a coaching course which paudie will give, but I think the club will have to approach people and encourage them to go to it rather than hope they will volunteer. For whatever reason people wont volunteer for anything and have to be asked. Not to worry, the club hope to have about 15 coach's trained in the foundation level course for juveniles.
They also appointed (and pay) a former pupil/player to go to the schools in the parish to coach the young lads at lunch time and PE classes so they can have a chance to develop as players. But it's the only way the club can hope to compete with the town that are winning everything underage, which in itself discourages players from picking hurling over other sports.
good stuff lemon. Seems Paudie Butler is a man after my own heart (especially the banning soccer bit).
Maybe it won't be all doom and gloom for your club though. Remember, as you said, back when he started there wasn't much happening in Drom. Since then things have come on so much that ye're now one of the best sides in the county. I think it must be hard in general for clubs to be as enthusiastic as they otherwise might be in Tipp with the dominance of Toome, but for Drom, seeing as how ye're rise is still fairly recent, I'd imagine there'd be quite a buzz around the place, particularly among the kids. I completely agree about primary schools being the breeding ground for hurlers and we faced the same thing up here in my club (though obviously we wouldn't be a patch on ye). I think in this case its up to the club to acknowledge the problem with the school not being able to provide the skills and get involved. We did that. We sent coaches down to work with the kids - easier said than done, but in your position I think ye have to do it to capitalise on, and continue, the good work Butler has done.
I hurled with a lad from Drom up here in Dublin. He was as good a hurler as I'd played with (but didn't think so himself - that was his undoing), so I don't think things were necessarily as bleak as you made out , but I take your point.
As regards whether your county men are up to that standard or not, well I'm only really familiar with Damien Young and Seamus Butler. Both need time to develop at that level, and both aren't getting their chance to do so from what I can make you. Its going to be tough for Young with Cummins still there, but surely Butler is as good as any corner forward you have in the county at the moment (barring the boy wonder of course). I always thought Young one of the best keepers I'd ever seen. That unforgettable save he made in the fitzgibbon final a while back will stay with me for a long time. I'd heard he was prone to the odd error here or there, but thats usually a confidence thing with keepers. If he were allowed the time and space to develop at county level, those sorts of things could surely be ironed out of his game. In my book both these 2 are definately inter-county standard.
Any word on how John O'Brien is ?
""However, the down side to his new job is now the club is going to suffer. There's no male in the primary school he once controlled and one young lads potential to become a top hurler has just slashed by about 75%.""
And that is what I was trying to say back on page 1 of this discussion. It is the source of hurling becoming the poor relative and if truth be known the fear of the compensation/insurance/claim against a school has something to do with it. This issue should be addressed (send them out and let them grow up) but it can't be the real problem because you then have to ask why does it not exist in the stronger counties.
A fair amount of us have had the opportunity to be in the Premium Level in Croke Park. At the end of the day the only difference between the P. Level and any other section is that you have bars and restaurants (that you can not get near before you are hunted out of the place) I have seen countless parents, fathers who brought their young lads of seven or eight yrs there and there is a real requirement for the GAA to realize that a small shop promoting hurling would do a lot for the game. For example, I gave two tickets to a Kilkenny man (A Plant & Machinery Man) who loved hurling and wanted to bring his young son to see Kilkenny in a Leinster Final. Imagine after watching the game he could have given his young lad a present he would remember for life had he been able to bring him over and buy him a small hurl, a helmet or a pair of boots in Croke Park after watching his heros at the same venue? Not possible.
Who remembers their first pair of boots and how they got them!
I have great admiration for Peter McKenna and his management of Croke Park. If he is left alone without statements appearing in the press about putting a roof on the place that he probably knew nothing about there is a chance that he might turn some of the ideas that we come up with into something.
The other thing is that years ago many of us learnt to hurl on the roads outside our houses and now it is as difficult as organizing a Gadderin to get a group of young lads in the country together during the summer evenings unless they all have a field local to each other and it seems that the old puck around is replaced with organized coaching at specific times, probably because there is a reluctance for local fields to be made available like years ago. That is why Primary School teachers should be cajoled, worked on, bribed, encouraged or whatever slant you put on it to get young lads hurling and I would like the GAA to do a survey of schools and see how many young lads play hurling, how many play football and how many have the opportunity to play hurling and if necessary the CV of the applicant teachers to contain a willingness to teach both games during break time and not just what suits them.
Dooleys being featured on TG4 now. Nearly over but surely to be repeated.
Some great scores and touches shown. Class acts.
Edit: The best GAA song I've heard http://www.uibhfhaili.com/offalygaa/songs/joeDooley.mp3
Paudie is doing demonstrations to for underage coaches, using underage county and club teams - showing how coaching CAN and SHOULD be done. It really is time well spent in his company. I've also seen him use a hurling wall for a coaching session with underage players - FANTASTIC! Children respond so well to him
I see where he is coming from - educate the coaches on better practices and it will come up the line with better player development
Quotethe old puck around is replaced with organized coaching at specific times, probably because there is a reluctance for local fields to be made available like years ago.
the one thing we try to emphasise in our club - carry the hurley everywhere you go until it becomes an extenstion of your arm, practice against every fine wall you see, with every willing person you meet and in every open space you find!
enthusiasm is infectious though. your aim should be to allow the children to succeed in anything they try to do - learning a skill, playing a game whatever. it is through success that kids come to enjoy things they do
QuoteHe even introduced a hurley with a glove superglued to the handle of the hurley so the play physically couldn't switch hands!
genius!!!
Re Hurling Walls:
We dont have a hurling wall in our club (were building one in 2007) but Paudie is always going on about them so our senior panel visited one in Wexford in 2005 and becasue it was so good we went back the following year. your arms would be sore and its worse than doing a ten mile lap, you are wrecked from just hurling.
But in 2006 we went to one and Paudie needed someone to count how many pucks a player gets during one of his ball wall sessions. So I dully got the task thinking it wouldnt be much over 200, but after 45 minutes we had well over 500 'pucks' done. Where else could you get that many chances to control a ball or perfect your strooke? Thats alot of normal training sessions to get that many pucks. You'd be surprised at how much even a day of intensive ball wall training would bring you on.
but our ball wall that our club is in the process of gettin planning for will be floodlit all weather and i know that this will be our winter training in the furture, wall ball to death with any running being the short sprint agility training that Paudi only does. however, due to work committments Paudi had to step aside from the club for the year, but hoopefully in '08 we can start into more hurling only training.
From the Hoganstand
Toomevara's chances of making it to this year's All-Ireland SHC club final have been hit by the news that ace defender Paul McGrath has been suspended.
The Tipp men are due to face Kilkenny champions Ballyhale Shamrocks on February 10th at Portlaoise in the semi-final but McGrath will play no part in proceedings that day.
A player tipped to be part of the Premier County squad before too long, McGrath has been suspended for two months after being sent off in a challenge game against the University of Limerick last weekend.
And McGrath can expect to miss the All-Ireland decider too should Toomevara bypass the challenge of the Kilkenny champions.
...must have been a dirty stoke to get suspended in a challenge game
It's unusual for suspensions to follow challenges games alright. A bad blow for the Tip men.
i believe the suspension applies when the challenge game was outside your own county. or something to that effect.
So lads, the Hurling Season has begun in earnest. The first round of national league games havent shown anything too dramatic.
The most notable performers were Limerick and Dublin, Both coming away with a unexpected win and draw against Tipperary and Kilkenny respectfully.
So Start from the top,
Kilkenny - A draw with a young dublin team was abit of a surprie considering there was eleven of the all ireland team in the first fifteen. Brian Cody wont be too worried and will be expecting to pick up the necessary points to qualify for the knock out stages. Next up for them at home will be Tipp and that should be a test with Tipp under pressure for points after their loss to limerick.
Cork - Well Gerald McCarthy has the envitable task of getting to Cork boys ready for another go at liam. I would guess that we will see some new faces to try and freshen up the panel and team, that has been going along time together. Opened their account against Offaly with a decent victory.
Clare - Having started off with a facile victory over a poor Down side, tony considine wont have learnt too much. There rock steady defence is gone in Lohan and McMahon, and hopefully temporarily Fitzy. So it will be interesting to see who steps up to fill the positions. In the forward division they are minus tony carmody/griffen cant remember his away in canada studying. So again nugent and co need to stand up and be counted. Next is wexford and should be another two points.
Galway - Ger Loughnane couldn't have asked for a better start. 3.25 against Antrim and revenge for last year's ambush in the first round. Whether he can unearth players for the pivotal 3 and 6 is still questionable, but a good league run could definitely throw up some contenders for the spots. Galway need to make it to a league final in order to be still hurling regularly and ger will know this and will take all matches in the league seriously. They face Limerick in their next league game and will be tested as i suspect Limerick are serious too about the league.
Limerick - Well Richie Bennis, has managed to convince a number of players to come onto the county setup. Most notably Peter Lawlor and Paudi O' Dwyer, along with Brian Begley back from long term injury.
The duals are all concentrating on hurling again this year and this can only be good. We have started well with a good victory over Tipp in nenagh on sunday which was welcome. Limerick will look on the league like Galway as a good way of developing a winning habit prior to championship, along with blooding some new faces if possible. Next game will be a real test against a new look Galway team.
Waterford - Having started the league with a good victory over neighbours wexford, things have been reasonably quite for a deise with the exception of the Eoin kelly transfer saga. With Cork next up for them, i think they could definitely pick up points and make the league quater finals with something to spare.
Tipperary - Well the opening round defeat wasnt music to Babs ears, however enough was seen that some decent players are coming through with the likes of McGrath, Egan developing into better players. Along with the return of the Toome players they will be thereabout for a q/f league place.
Offaly - Well the rebuilding continues for John McIntyre, an opening day lost to Cork would have been expected. It still remains to be seen whether real progress can be made this year. They will struggle for most of the league, however they should record a victory against Down in the next fixture.
Wexford - Well the model county again are just not really at the races, with Clare next up dont expect too much from them. With D O' Connor back there may be some hope, however the younger players still havent stepped up to take it on from the recently retired stalwarts. Will struggle through most of the league.
Dublin - Well first things first, there next outing against Antrim is vital to the development of the team. A victory could really given them some momentum for the rest of the league games especially against Tipp and Limerick. Again a long term view must be taken with the players coming through but they must be patience and aide their development and not hinder them.
Antrim - Well the first round hammering got from Galway will do no good to anyone. There are a number of very talented players in the county however as a team antrim havent been able to compete with the top teams for nearly a decade now. There has been signs with promising minor, however in Ulster, hurling seems a level below. It has been mentioned that antrim underage play in leinster in order to play stronger opposition and this would be a very good idea in my book. the higher the level the more to improve to. Dublin is next on their fixture list and with the dubs in good spirits the antrim boys could really give it a go against them.
Down - By far the weakest team in Division 1, development outside the pennisula area needs to be continued in order to have a better base for the county team. Will continue to struggle for the remainder of the year.
Best of the rest - division 2 -
Laois - Shouldnt have any trouble of in winning div 2. if the team is managed properly there is enough talent to give most big ten teams a run for their money. Gave a weakened Derry outfit a good beating in the first round and their remaining opposition of armagh, carlow, meath and wicklow shouldnt trouble them too much
Westmeath and London should continue there good development over the next twelve months, and qualify for the div 2 semis.
"Well Gerald McCarthy has the envitable task of getting to Cork boys ready for another go at liam. I would guess that we will see some new faces to try and freshen up the panel and team, that has been going along time together. Opened their account against Offaly with a decent victory."
envitable ? Do you mean enviable or inevitable? If you are saying enviable, I presume you are referring to the foundation of experienced hurlers he has. Still Kilkenny showed he has some problems to sort out. And the way he has started by moving his full back to full forward strikes me as a strange way to go.
So perhaps not enviable but inevitable ;)
good man timmy, can't be correct with the spelling all the time :-[
it was meant to say 'envitable'.