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Absolutely no doubt Monaghan deserved their win tonight, but thought the margin of victory was a bit sore on our lads. 13 points doesn't reflect the gulf in ability between those two sides, but it does highlight the problem a lot of Armagh teams seem to have at present of letting a couple of set backs snowball into a complete catastrophe.

Thought we were the better side and were looking comfortable enough for the first 20 minutes or so, but things started to go off the rails after a couple of injuries and Heffron's black card. That card was given away very cheaply: blatant, pointless and right on top of the referee. We were still well in the game until Monaghan's first goal, but heads seem to drop after that. It was frustrating that another indiscretion indirectly led to that goal, with a free the would likely have been hit short moved up into shooting range after the ball was, again pointlessly, tapped away. The shot from this free bounced about the box and in the resulting melee for the ball we somehow conceded a penalty. The marking slackened and boys stopped showing for the ball as much from this point. The last 15 or 20 minutes were like a practice match for Monaghan.

Was a bit disappointed in some of the tactical calls too. It was evident from very early that we were struggling to get the ball past Monaghan's sweeper and get our FF line into the game, but not a lot was done to change things up. This had a knock on effect further out the field, as, without an outlet to kick the ball into, a lot of possession was either carried into contact and coughed up, or just recycled around the middle until someone dropped it. O'Neill was moved to FF when the game was already dead, but even then we didn't deliver any ball in. There also didn't seem to be much of a notion of what to do with short kickouts. Cosgrove must have collected almost a dozen short ones, but we rarely built on this possession that Monaghan were gifting us. After a while I think they were happy enough just to let us gather it short in the corner knowing that we weren't going anywhere with it. But the most irritating tactical ploy was the continued adherence to the retreat and set up a screen on the 45 defence even when we were chasing the game. At 6 or 7 points down we needed goals. The most likely way we were going to get goals was to try to press Monaghan high and force turnovers close to their goal, but instead we kept on dropping back. The seniors did the same in a similar position last summer against Donegal.

All that said, I think there is talent there to work with and if a few of those lads are given the right help and opportunities in the next couple of years then there's no reason why they can't become very useful seniors for the county. Would like to see Rushe, O'Neill, Martin and McKenna involved in the senior set up in some capacity sooner rather than later, although it may be best in the long run not to hurry things too much with the two Cross lads.

[so it would take a 20 point win for Armagh to avoid joining Laois for the drop]

If Ferm win then it is the same set of outcomes I outlined in my last post.  It gets complicated if Ferm lose then it is as follows(I think)

Ferm loses, Derry loses, Meath wins, Armagh wins, Laois loses : Ferm /Laois down
Ferm loses, Derry loses, Meath loses, Armagh wins, Laois wins : Meath /Laois down
Ferm loses, Derry wins, Meath loses, Armagh loses, Laois wins : Meath /Armagh down
Ferm loses, Derry wins, Meath wins, Armagh loses, Laois loses : Armagh /Laois down

If Ferm draw their score diff would remain at -2  and would be on 6 points so it would take a 20 point win for Armagh to avoid joining Laois for the drop

An 11 point win would see us overhaul Derry.

Results not kind to Armagh today. Gone from a situation where we might have stayed up even in defeat next weekend to one where a win might not be enough. Only an 11 point win against Derry guarantees safety. Confident of getting a win, but not by that much. Would expect Meath to beat Laois to potentially join Armagh and Derry on 6 points, but in that case we'd have to rely on Tyrone beating Fermanagh to keep us up.

Some amount of Armagh men are confident of beating Derry next week.  I wouldnt be confident of a Derry win,  but can't see where you boys confidence is coming from!

We're at home, we're starting to play a bit better, we're getting a few players back to fitness and form, and Derry seem to be getting worse as the league goes on. Wouldn't be all that surprised if Derry turn up and tank us, but considering some of the aforementioned factors I think we can be justifiably confident of scraping a narrow win.

Results not kind to Armagh today. Gone from a situation where we might have stayed up even in defeat next weekend to one where a win might not be enough. Only an 11 point win against Derry guarantees safety. Confident of getting a win, but not by that much. Would expect Meath to beat Laois to potentially join Armagh and Derry on 6 points, but in that case we'd have to rely on Tyrone beating Fermanagh to keep us up.

Thought we deserved something from the game tonight. Especially sweet coming on the back of conceding one of those in the last game. Another improved display from our lads, but maybe difficult to read too much into it considering the conditions and the particular approach of the referee. He seemed completely unable to distinguish incidental contact from genuine foul play, so just whistled for everything. Ruined the flow of the game entirely.

Most of our top performers were in defence. Vernon, Shields and McElroy were best for me. Forker was busy, there's a very good footballer there if he ever manages to cut out some of the silly stuff. Kernan made a difference when introduced, and McParland won a lot of ball. But most of our forwards struggled. Thought Watters was unlucky to receive the second yellow. Looked to me that Cavanagh slipped to his knees just before coming into contact with an already committed Watters, which meant contact was made around the neck/ shoulders instead of around the midriff. A better referee might have realised this.

Would be confident enough of getting the result we need to stay up against Derry given the recent improvement and the fact that they can't be much better than the rest of the also-rans that populate this division.

What sort of numbers would cross have to pick from? It seems a big enough area for a rural club. Kilcoo, Ballinderry etc aren't very big places.

They might have the benefit of the population of a small town/ large village, but their catchment area would actually be on the small side. A mile or two outside the town in any direction and you'll be into another club's area. They maximise their resources better than probably any other club in the country.

Wasn't all that dying on Sicario either. Well acted with a few tense scenes, but thought it needed a bit more to rise above being just good. Liked the stuff with Blunt, though. Thought it was clever the way they set her up as the show's main protagonist, only to let you figure out, almost at the same time as the character on screen, just how insignificant she really was to the whole enterprise.

Annoying conclusion to an encouraging display. Seemed to be a little bit more bite and decisiveness about Armagh today, but we were helped by an opponent that looked like they were only trying in fits and spurts. Galway were a lot more open at the back than most other counties, and probably usually Galway themselves, are at this level. That space allowed our forwardline to actually function for a change. It also helped that Campbell was channelling Stevie McDonnell in his prime, incredible display of point taking in the first half. Watters, Grugan, McElroy and Donaghy put in good shifts too.

But, a lot of the big problems are still there. No midfield and poor discipline. Donaghy looked decent in open play around the middle today, but he's not an intercounty midfielder. Rafferty doesn't do it for me. Bags of ability there but he always looks exhausted. Is there some sort of chronic injury issue there that affects his conditioning? Rarely tracks back and is the king of the token tackle. That make him a liability in a set up vulnerable to strike runners breaking the defensive screen we try to set up on the 50. His two cards today were the result of lazy, careless tackles too. Which takes us on the the problem of indiscipline and Aidan Forker. I can't believe at this stage that efforts haven't been made to get him to wise up, so can only conclude that he can't control himself on the pitch. If that's the case he shouldn't be on the pitch, and certainly shouldn't be lining out as captain.

Bit of bad luck too. There were a couple of injury breaks, but nothing extremely long, so it's difficult to understand from where Hurson got almost seven minutes of injury time. Didn't think he was too bad overall, but that piece of timekeeping was bizarre and was undoubtedly one of the factors that led to us dropping a point. That point might be a big deal when things are finished up too, as it's not far-fetched that we would have finished level with Fermanagh on four, trumping them on the head to head, and with one of Meath or Laois below us on three. As it stands we'll probably need to beat Derry on the last day now. Strange to think that without being an awful lot better than we have been to date that we could be sitting on 8 points now, with only the Cavan game really getting away from us. And that despite being largely terrible. This really is a very poor quality division.

We might win. Or we might lose. That's it really.

I think it's time we turn the lights off and leave Tony to himself in this thread.

1 - (5 Points) Jurassic Park
2 - (4 Points) La Haine
3 - (3 Points) Boyhood
4 - (2 Points) Grave Of The Fireflies
5 - (1 Point) Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid

I'd agree with Gallsman about Mr. Robot. Loved the first episode and thought it was going to be something exceptional, but it never reached those heights again. The different plots strands didn't tie together at all well for me, and found a lot of the characters to be either boring or annoying (Darlene). The main fella was good and the weird Swedish couple were interesting enough. Probably entertaining enough to give the second series a go, though.

Really good game in the conditions. Two teams very evenly matched. Felt Cross were worth their HT lead, but Scotstown were much better in the second half. Hanratty going off tipped the balance around the middle Scotstown's way and they could easily have nicked it in normal time. Expect to see Scotstown knocking on the door in Ulster for the next few years, good side and the experience of today will stand to them.

Scotstown let down by two of their big men in extra time. Unforgivable mistakes by Hughes and Beggan to really hand the game to Cross. Thought both keepers were desperate all day in fact. Beggan frees were mostly awful and put his men under pressure with several poor short kick outs, while Hearty's kick outs weren't any better and he was blessed that neither of those wild punches ended up in the net.

Best for Cross were the Kernans, Carragher and Morgan. Tony Kernan probably man of the match, involved in most good things Cross did. Aaron Kernan very composed as usual but shouldn't have been allowed to continue after that knock to the head, was definitely out cold for a good 30 seconds or more. Carragher does a lot of the simple things very well, would really like to see him back with Armagh next year. Morgan's battle with Hughes was great stuff. Ref probably rode Morgan a bit, there were definitely a couple of times when Hughes did the old grab on to the defender's arm and pull him down on top of you trick. Not surprised Cassidy didn't spot that though, very ordinary ref who seems to always take the easy way out. Any contact at all today and the man with the ball got the free, no attempt at interpreting the subtleties of a coming together. The fussing over sending the two lads off at the end when he was about to blow the whistle was typical of his lack of common sense.

Cross will be hard stopped now, awesome commitment and hunger for men that already have houses coming down with medals. So much experience as well, reckon there were maybe only two lads under 25 starting today and boys off the bench like McKenna, Finnegan, Clarke and Cunningham have all been there and done it before too.

Is it not as/more likely that some nut yank could attack a high school football game or church??
"Muslims doing damage, they will gun them down". Stew, what world do you (and your mates) live in?

Like this guy

<<< not a muslim

[Great form at their level heading into the tournament.]

I'm struggling to think of a bigger shock in any sport ever.  With soccer you can get a couple of fluke goals but Japan beating South Africa at rugby at the world cup.

Japan beat Wales two years ago, Italy last year. Great form at their level heading into the tournament. Far from the biggest shock in sporting history but an amazing result all the same.

They've lost to Tonga, Fiji, USA and Georgia in the last 12 months. How does that constitute 'great form'?