Super 8s

[ha ha derry]

MYTHS

That super 8 is for the benefit of Club football.
That it is for the benefit of the weaker counties.
That it is for the benefit of the players.
That it makes it harder for Kerry/Dublin to win AI titles.
That Dublin would be asked to play outside Croker in Super 8.

REALITIES


Croker needs more big games to satisfy Vendors, Corporate Boxes, Sky TV, Dublin Media.
Dublin will only play Super 8 game outside Croker if game is a dead Rubber.
Leading counties Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone/Donegal/Mayo now get three chances.
To play games week in week out over the months of July and August needs huge player resources.
There is the cost on the fan?
The disruption of Holidays.
It's alright for Zulu and his fellow Dubs who will have all this on his doorstep with little peripheral cost or time.
How many backdoor routes can you create for to get a AI winner?

We already have all the Good teams playing each other in Division One of the League.
This is the Cup! Is the Cup not supposed to be Knockout?


The Reality is that the GAA want to Milk the Dublin Cash cow! When they are looking at the Big games they are looking at how many of the Good teams they can get playing Dublin and filling Croke Park.

Consecutive Draws between Mayo and Dublin have shown them the real money that can be mopped up from this.

Spot on. Seems about right.

[Zulu]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

[ha ha derry]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

The removal of replays is was not part of the motion on super 8s.
Introduced a round of dead rubber games at the business end of the championship.
Made it easier on the Munster finalists giving them an additional chance.
Only 2 counties are affected in September anyway.
So I'll ask again what issues does the super 8 FIX.

[The Trap]

Zulu, its a great proposal for Dublin, Kerry, Mayo county teams who will probably make the super 8 every year. Its a terrible proposal for their club sides who have county footballers though.

[macdanger2]

You're proving my position by again and it's far from just Dubs supporting this. But you ask about Waterford and the like, ok what's your solution then? Duffy, nor anyone else said this was the solution to all our issues but I'd like to hear how we can keep the provincials and provide the weaker teams more games, in the height of summer no less???

So, screenexile let's hear your proposal that provides the weaker teams meaningful games in the height of summer and gives the clubs more time with their IC players as well.

Move the league to summertime and qualification for the all Ireland series is based on league position. Provincial winners also qualify for the all Ireland series. All run off over say 4 months. Club games played in the first half of the year.

[AZOffaly]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Stay quiet you, Dub.

[mrdeeds]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Ulster teams still at diaadvantage. They will still have tough games to get there and need to peak earlier than others while Mayo Kerry and Dublin are guaranteed to get there and can peak later.

[Jinxy]

There are over 200 games played in the 2 months it takes to run off the NFL.
What's the equivalent stat for the football championship?

[LeoMc]

I don't see any right minded player or manager wanting to play three extra matches at that stage of a competition. No benefit to the teams. increased injury risk and fatigue when you least need it.

Shouldn't be a problem if the mid week training is adjusted accordingly. However, with the amount of dinosaurs still taking sessions there might be problems...workrate wasn't high enough last Saturday lads, let's train the bollox off ye Wednesday to get us right for next Saturday..that'll do the trick.

So you reach the last eight in the championship and you're telling me that you would rather play three matches rather than one match to get to the semi final

If you told a team in June that they had to play no games and that they'd go straight into the All-Ireland final I'd say they'd take that too.

The point is that players want to play more games during the summer months. It also makes it a more level playing field by making the path to the final for the likes of Dublin and Kerry more difficult. That's two problems that the Super 8 solves. If it creates a problem elsewhere then fair enough. But the claim is that the proposals tried to address some of the issues that GAA people had with the current system.

So do club players (the GAA majority).

Bringing the games forward addresses this. Even clubs in successful counties get September back. Those outside the 8 have July / August for their club games also.

All but two counties had September anyway. 

That is what I was judging success on. 
The next 6 also get a couple of weeks of August back.

[Esmarelda]

Mr. Deeds, that's what you get when you stick to provincial championships, unless the Munster teams improve.  Not much you can do without scrapping the provincials.

The Trap, how do you mean it's bad for club with county players?

Ha ha Derry, there may be dead rubber games granted. But could you not try to make your argument balanced by saying "might be" instead of implying they're a certainty?
Munster champions get a second chance but will still encounter more difficult games en route to the final. Can you also accept this?
Clubs of the six teams not making the semi-finals will also get their players back earlier.

From the Bunker is in WUM territory so I won't encourage him/her.

[Zulu]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Stay quiet you, Dub.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I'm labelled a Dub!! And a game in CP will cost me more time and money than most in Ireland - on my bloody doorstep!

[Rossfan]

There are over 200 games played in the 2 months it takes to run off the NFL.
What's the equivalent stat for the football championship?

Around 60/62 games played over almost 5 months.

[Zulu]

It appears to me that most of the criticism is based on the fact it's not perfect but if that's the baseline then we're better off keeping it as we are and complaining our way through the championships. There's no point in proposing what mcdanger2 said, even though I'd agree with much of it but it won't get through congress. There is little you can do for the weaker teams if you keep the provincials and it's extremely difficult to do much more for the clubs as long as many club players play two codes and some two levels. But making the changes required there won't get the support necessary either.

I think there is a lot in this proposal and it does help FIX a poor championship structure.

[JoG2]

This is what the recent changes (last 2 years) will mean for club football in Tyrone in 2018:

County minors are not allowed to play for the club seniors until Tyrone are beat in minor championship (somewhere between end of May and end of August)
County minors are not allowed to train with the club at minor or senior level for the same period
17 year olds are not allowed to play for the club seniors/reserves
County Under 20s will be preparing for a summer championship match thus not training with the club and probably missing games for friendlies etc at the managers wishes.
County seniors will be playing O'Fiach Cup, McKenna Cup, National League, Ulster Championship and Super 8s if they qualify as expected. All of this has to be squeezed in by end of August.
In Tyrone there are usually 5 starred games to accommodate county players and they then play the rest of the club league games. Where are these club games going to be fitted into a compressed schedule? There wont be much of a gap between end of league and start of Ulster championship and between Ulster championship games and then on to qualifiers/super 8s.
The answer is there will be very little if any opportunity to play for the club.

For people who say that these proposals will help club football I think you don't understand the reality of the situation. Personally I have no time for the county scene any more but I know lots of people who go to county games that have no allegiance to any club. The fixtures makers in Tyrone already have a nightmare, we don't know the dates of any league or championship matches in any divisions and normally don't know what is happening from one week to the next. 2018 is going to be an absolute nightmare and it is only when we are going through it that people will realise the extent of the problem.

Anybody who can come back to me during/after the 2018 club season in Tyrone and can tell me any different to the nightmare scenario above I will be glad to say I was wrong.

just to be clear, if a player has turned 17 the calendar year before the 2017 league / championship ie 31st December 1999 or before, they can play senior club.

[Avondhu star]

We've removed replays outside of provincial and All Ireland finals and moved the championship forward to August so freeing up September. We have increased the number of high profile games at the business end of the championship, brought big games to provincial venues and helped to address the imbalances between the way Munster champions get to an All Ireland and the Ulster ones do. We have a championship that trundles on until maybe QF stage before we get any notable games and even then it's often SF stage. So we now have a better championship, less gaps between games, more time for clubs after championship. We also saw congress stick to their guns on U17 players which will also eventually help schedule club games.

As I said, as everyone who supports this says, this isn't the solution to our problems but it is part of a movement towards a better format that hopefully will address most of our problems.

Why dont we have any"notable" games before qf or sf? Because with the exception of the Ulster championship the provincial title is of no value. Dublin Kerry Cork Mayo know that they will in all likelihood be in the quarter finals either front door or back door and adjust their training plans accordingly.
As regards having the All Ireland finals in August its just waving the white flag and handing ovet September to the following June to rugby and soccer on television,newspapers etc