Author Topic: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!  (Read 2230 times)

Fuzzman

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2017, 04:28:20 PM »
For the record.
I remember Stephen O'Neill as a 5 year old kid coming down to his uncles house just beside us I dont I EVER saw him WITHOUT a ball. EVER! Well maybe on Sunday when he went in to mass with his parents.

Yes there was good football skill & hard workers in both his parents families but to me the lad just loved football and he always had a ball in his hand.

Also, a hurling lad at my club in Clontarf was telling me how you never see our U10s walking around with a hurl but if you look at other clubs like Vincents you'll see loads of lads who just have the hurley with them all the time.

BennyCake

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 04:33:27 PM »
Kids brought up with/minded by a much older generation or too many women. Or no male influence on a lad.

TheOptimist

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 05:25:30 PM »
I know people with brutal hand to eye coordination and poor at sports, and seen people capable of taking to any sport right away. Can hand to eye coordination be taught or just instinctive?

You are either a natural or your not. However, beyond that, practice and hard work are needed no matter your skill levels. You can learn to kick with your weaker foot, you can train to be able to jump higher, you can learn how to deal better with situations with experience. So I guess better hand to eye coordination can be learned. Take one good and one average sportsman, with the less skillful one putting in the hours of practice, I reckon the average player will have more success. I'm sure most of us know players within our clubs who had all the talent but did not progress as they were lazy, not dedicated or whatever. Very few make it to the top without hard graft.

i dont believe that for a minute

?
Do you believe everyone is born with the same ability?

People are born with zero skill. They may have physical traits that help them. Size and speed are the two biggest ones, though even speed can be gained with the right training. Agility, balance, vision, skill, temperament and everything else can be taught. Give me a team of kids who are disciplined and good learners above anything else.

That's Patently wrong. Throughout the history of any sport there have been examples of players who have that wee bit extra, a touch of genius. That cannot be learned.
Such as?
How can you say they didn't learn it?
Where did it come from then?
They may have been subjected to a different set of circumstances or a different environment than was typical growing up that aided the development of that skill, but i don't believe that anyone is just born with an innate talent for something.
Like syferus says, physical traits can certainly help, but pretty much everything else can be coached/taught.

Come on now. Skill is a set of traits, be it balance, vision etc. Are you really saying that you or I could have been a Messi or a Maurice Fitzgerald given the correct circumstances. That attitude is BS, and it translates to all aspects of life be it intelligence or anything else. In honesty it piles too much pressure on young lads in particular as society tells them they have themselves to blame for their inadequacies.

Syferus

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 05:31:32 PM »
I know people with brutal hand to eye coordination and poor at sports, and seen people capable of taking to any sport right away. Can hand to eye coordination be taught or just instinctive?

You are either a natural or your not. However, beyond that, practice and hard work are needed no matter your skill levels. You can learn to kick with your weaker foot, you can train to be able to jump higher, you can learn how to deal better with situations with experience. So I guess better hand to eye coordination can be learned. Take one good and one average sportsman, with the less skillful one putting in the hours of practice, I reckon the average player will have more success. I'm sure most of us know players within our clubs who had all the talent but did not progress as they were lazy, not dedicated or whatever. Very few make it to the top without hard graft.

i dont believe that for a minute

?
Do you believe everyone is born with the same ability?

People are born with zero skill. They may have physical traits that help them. Size and speed are the two biggest ones, though even speed can be gained with the right training. Agility, balance, vision, skill, temperament and everything else can be taught. Give me a team of kids who are disciplined and good learners above anything else.

That's Patently wrong. Throughout the history of any sport there have been examples of players who have that wee bit extra, a touch of genius. That cannot be learned.
Such as?
How can you say they didn't learn it?
Where did it come from then?
They may have been subjected to a different set of circumstances or a different environment than was typical growing up that aided the development of that skill, but i don't believe that anyone is just born with an innate talent for something.
Like syferus says, physical traits can certainly help, but pretty much everything else can be coached/taught.

Come on now. Skill is a set of traits, be it balance, vision etc. Are you really saying that you or I could have been a Messi or a Maurice Fitzgerald given the correct circumstances. That attitude is BS, and it translates to all aspects of life be it intelligence or anything else. In honesty it piles too much pressure on young lads in particular as society tells them they have themselves to blame for their inadequacies.

Yes. Messi needed regular HGH injections to grow to his current less-than-towering size - if he'd been born any time before he was, or didn't have the benefit of a benefactor, he would never have become the player he was. He would have been unlikely to be a footballer at all. You literally chose an example that proves nurture over nature while attempting to prove the opposite, indeed the most extreme example of it you could have found.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 05:35:28 PM by Syferus »

ned

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 05:38:31 PM »
I know people with brutal hand to eye coordination and poor at sports, and seen people capable of taking to any sport right away. Can hand to eye coordination be taught or just instinctive?

You are either a natural or your not. However, beyond that, practice and hard work are needed no matter your skill levels. You can learn to kick with your weaker foot, you can train to be able to jump higher, you can learn how to deal better with situations with experience. So I guess better hand to eye coordination can be learned. Take one good and one average sportsman, with the less skillful one putting in the hours of practice, I reckon the average player will have more success. I'm sure most of us know players within our clubs who had all the talent but did not progress as they were lazy, not dedicated or whatever. Very few make it to the top without hard graft.

i dont believe that for a minute

?
Do you believe everyone is born with the same ability?

People are born with zero skill. They may have physical traits that help them. Size and speed are the two biggest ones, though even speed can be gained with the right training. Agility, balance, vision, skill, temperament and everything else can be taught. Give me a team of kids who are disciplined and good learners above anything else.

That's Patently wrong. Throughout the history of any sport there have been examples of players who have that wee bit extra, a touch of genius. That cannot be learned.
Such as?
How can you say they didn't learn it?
Where did it come from then?
They may have been subjected to a different set of circumstances or a different environment than was typical growing up that aided the development of that skill, but i don't believe that anyone is just born with an innate talent for something.
Like syferus says, physical traits can certainly help, but pretty much everything else can be coached/taught.

Come on now. Skill is a set of traits, be it balance, vision etc. Are you really saying that you or I could have been a Messi or a Maurice Fitzgerald given the correct circumstances. That attitude is BS, and it translates to all aspects of life be it intelligence or anything else. In honesty it piles too much pressure on young lads in particular as society tells them they have themselves to blame for their inadequacies.

Yes. Messi needed regular HGH injections to grow to his current less-than-towering size - if he'd been born any time before he was, or didn't have the benefit of a benefactor, he would never have become the player he was. He would have been unlikely to be a footballer at all. You literally chose an example that proves nurture over nature while attempting to prove the opposite, indeed the most extreme example of it you could have found.

It doesn't prove nurture over nature. Messi still had that something special. The growth hormones didn't make him more skillful. He may not have made it as a professional but he still would have had the touch of genius. You are mistaking successful for talent.

Aristo 60

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 05:41:43 PM »
Parentage is the no 1 factor in my book. I was involved in greyhounds a bit years ago and it struck me that in both codes nothing beats parentage.


Syferus

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 05:42:09 PM »
I know people with brutal hand to eye coordination and poor at sports, and seen people capable of taking to any sport right away. Can hand to eye coordination be taught or just instinctive?

You are either a natural or your not. However, beyond that, practice and hard work are needed no matter your skill levels. You can learn to kick with your weaker foot, you can train to be able to jump higher, you can learn how to deal better with situations with experience. So I guess better hand to eye coordination can be learned. Take one good and one average sportsman, with the less skillful one putting in the hours of practice, I reckon the average player will have more success. I'm sure most of us know players within our clubs who had all the talent but did not progress as they were lazy, not dedicated or whatever. Very few make it to the top without hard graft.

i dont believe that for a minute

?
Do you believe everyone is born with the same ability?

People are born with zero skill. They may have physical traits that help them. Size and speed are the two biggest ones, though even speed can be gained with the right training. Agility, balance, vision, skill, temperament and everything else can be taught. Give me a team of kids who are disciplined and good learners above anything else.

That's Patently wrong. Throughout the history of any sport there have been examples of players who have that wee bit extra, a touch of genius. That cannot be learned.
Such as?
How can you say they didn't learn it?
Where did it come from then?
They may have been subjected to a different set of circumstances or a different environment than was typical growing up that aided the development of that skill, but i don't believe that anyone is just born with an innate talent for something.
Like syferus says, physical traits can certainly help, but pretty much everything else can be coached/taught.

Come on now. Skill is a set of traits, be it balance, vision etc. Are you really saying that you or I could have been a Messi or a Maurice Fitzgerald given the correct circumstances. That attitude is BS, and it translates to all aspects of life be it intelligence or anything else. In honesty it piles too much pressure on young lads in particular as society tells them they have themselves to blame for their inadequacies.

Yes. Messi needed regular HGH injections to grow to his current less-than-towering size - if he'd been born any time before he was, or didn't have the benefit of a benefactor, he would never have become the player he was. He would have been unlikely to be a footballer at all. You literally chose an example that proves nurture over nature while attempting to prove the opposite, indeed the most extreme example of it you could have found.

It doesn't prove nurture over nature. Messi still had that something special. The growth hormones didn't make him more skillful. He may not have made it as a professional but he still would have had the touch of genius. You are mistaking successful for talent.

You're mistaking hard work and passion for magic.

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 05:55:09 PM »
I know people with brutal hand to eye coordination and poor at sports, and seen people capable of taking to any sport right away. Can hand to eye coordination be taught or just instinctive?

You are either a natural or your not. However, beyond that, practice and hard work are needed no matter your skill levels. You can learn to kick with your weaker foot, you can train to be able to jump higher, you can learn how to deal better with situations with experience. So I guess better hand to eye coordination can be learned. Take one good and one average sportsman, with the less skillful one putting in the hours of practice, I reckon the average player will have more success. I'm sure most of us know players within our clubs who had all the talent but did not progress as they were lazy, not dedicated or whatever. Very few make it to the top without hard graft.

i dont believe that for a minute

?
Do you believe everyone is born with the same ability?

People are born with zero skill. They may have physical traits that help them. Size and speed are the two biggest ones, though even speed can be gained with the right training. Agility, balance, vision, skill, temperament and everything else can be taught. Give me a team of kids who are disciplined and good learners above anything else.

That's Patently wrong. Throughout the history of any sport there have been examples of players who have that wee bit extra, a touch of genius. That cannot be learned.
Such as?
How can you say they didn't learn it?
Where did it come from then?
They may have been subjected to a different set of circumstances or a different environment than was typical growing up that aided the development of that skill, but i don't believe that anyone is just born with an innate talent for something.
Like syferus says, physical traits can certainly help, but pretty much everything else can be coached/taught.

Come on now. Skill is a set of traits, be it balance, vision etc. Are you really saying that you or I could have been a Messi or a Maurice Fitzgerald given the correct circumstances. That attitude is BS, and it translates to all aspects of life be it intelligence or anything else. In honesty it piles too much pressure on young lads in particular as society tells them they have themselves to blame for their inadequacies.

Yes. Messi needed regular HGH injections to grow to his current less-than-towering size - if he'd been born any time before he was, or didn't have the benefit of a benefactor, he would never have become the player he was. He would have been unlikely to be a footballer at all. You literally chose an example that proves nurture over nature while attempting to prove the opposite, indeed the most extreme example of it you could have found.

It doesn't prove nurture over nature. Messi still had that something special. The growth hormones didn't make him more skillful. He may not have made it as a professional but he still would have had the touch of genius. You are mistaking successful for talent.

So you think Messi was just born with innate talent for soccer?
 It wasnt something that he learned and perfected over many years of practice? It wasn't influenced by the coaching he received? The attitudes of the people he grew up with and by his parents?
It wasn't influenced by luck and circumstance?

It was all just some magic?
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Therealdonald

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 06:50:12 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

From the Bunker

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2017, 07:10:26 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

I'd explain that they often got more of a chance than lads from mortal families. That said I'll put down both of our arguments by saying that of the great Kerry team of the 70's and 80's only about 10% or less had sons who went on to play for Kerry.

Anyway this is going away from what I was really looking for.

Syferus

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 07:12:57 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

There’s little genetically superior about families you mentioned. You ignore the environmental advantages being born into a footballing family bring and place it all in some sort of eugenics basket.

Michael Murphy was born with genetic advantages, but the O’Ses, the Meehans, the Canavans, the Brogans, not so much. Explain the fact Paidi O’Se’s son was never good enough for Kerry despite his supposed genetic advantages?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 07:16:28 PM by Syferus »

Therealdonald

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2017, 07:24:23 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

There’s little genetically superior about families you mentioned. You ignore the environmental advantages being born into a footballing family bring and place it all in some sort of eugenics basket.

Michael Murphy was born with genetic advantages, but the O’Ses, the Meehans, the Canavans, the Brogans, not so much. Explain the fact Paidi O’Se’s son was never good enough for Kerry despite his supposed genetic advantages?

So you're going to use Paidi O'Se as an example when his 3 nephews are multi time allstars and 2 of them players of the year?? Do you follow horse breeding? Same thing. Literally science proves this when it comes to fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers. You are born quick. Those that tend to disagree with this are only doing so because they themselves are afraid of their inadequacies being passed on. I'm not saying thats the case, what I'm saying is that natural ability is something that some individuals are born with. The hard working naturally gifted player will always trump the hard working non-natural gifted player. Doesn't mean the rest don't try, they just have to try harder.

LooseCannon

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2017, 07:33:39 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

There’s little genetically superior about families you mentioned. You ignore the environmental advantages being born into a footballing family bring and place it all in some sort of eugenics basket.

Michael Murphy was born with genetic advantages, but the O’Ses, the Meehans, the Canavans, the Brogans, not so much. Explain the fact Paidi O’Se’s son was never good enough for Kerry despite his supposed genetic advantages?

Páidí’s son is a fairly handy footballer. May be called in yet. Got MOTM in either the Kerry IFC final or the Munster Semi-Final.
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Syferus

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »
The greyhound anaology makes the most sense. You are born with natural ability/skill/inner qualities. These come from genetics, nothing else. Explain the O'Se's, Meehans, Donnellans, McGuigan's, Brogan's. Superior genes mixed with a good work ethic. Now these boys may not have utilised the gifts they were born with (they did), but they got off to a better start than most. An ounce of breeding is worth a ton of feeding.

P.S I read another post that talked about a good wall at the side of a house. The greatest footballer/greatest clutch footballer to ever grace the green fields of Ireland, God or as is he known by us commoners Peter the Great needed only a trailer to practice his kicking with both feet.

There’s little genetically superior about families you mentioned. You ignore the environmental advantages being born into a footballing family bring and place it all in some sort of eugenics basket.

Michael Murphy was born with genetic advantages, but the O’Ses, the Meehans, the Canavans, the Brogans, not so much. Explain the fact Paidi O’Se’s son was never good enough for Kerry despite his supposed genetic advantages?

Páidí’s son is a fairly handy footballer. May be called in yet. Got MOTM in either the Kerry IFC final or the Munster Semi-Final.

The Kerry final, which I already knew. A far cry from Croke Park in September on the ladder.

Orchard park

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Re: Factors that can help you become a good footballer!
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2017, 07:47:39 PM »
I reckon he has a better chance of making Kerry then you  have of getting 2 minutes in a junior D game ever