‘The Provinces’: A shining jewel in the GAA crown

[Zulu]

Is there only one way of improving weaker teams? Can I only become a better sprinter if I compete against Usain Bolt? And how would you, or Conway, explain the strength of Galway hurling who became a power while in Connacht, where there is no other team at all. How are Kerry so strong when they have been in a traditionally weak football province, in fact why aren't they a strong hurling power with so many strong teams to compete against?

[Pangurban]

A good article, which when boiled down is basically saying..If it aint broke,dont fix it

[Rossfan]

I can't see too many members of the public being put out over the Provinces if the number attending the Railway Cup is anything to go by.
Ending the "Ban"/Ending the Ban on RUC-PSNI/Brit Soldiers or police and allowing Soccer/Rugby in Croke Park were all going to be the end of the GAA  according to the doom mongers like Mr Conway.
And Still the old lady goes from strength to strength after 125 years and will long after Mr Conway or me are long gone to the Stadium in the sky.

[The Forfeit Point]

Yes, because the last thing we want is a system that properly reflects the relative merits of teams and makes it more likely that the best team actually wins it!

taking the sarcasm out of your comment - i agree!!
seriously though, the beauty of the old straight knock out was that a great team could get caught on the hop by a minnow who could then go on and win something. there is no chance of that happening now, sure wexford and fermanagh got to all-ireland semi finals but where is the silverware?  id be highly surprised if anyone from either of those counties would prefer the semi final appearance to a provincial title.

[AFS]

I'll give the man one thing, he does a 'won't somebody think of the children' argument like no other. He should be representing Ireland in the olympic long jump competition with the length of the leaps and bounds he has made it that article.

But that straightaway eliminates Carlow, Cavan, Fermanagh, Kilkenny, Laois, Longford, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo and Westmeath because they're below the "equitable optimum". Impossible? Well, with talk of scrapping provinces and introducing "Champions League-style" GAA formats, we should be fearful. First they came for the provinces, then they came for� ?

Does he know any other ways of debating other than the 'if we give in on this where will it end?' type of scaremongering. While it is always good to hear differing opinions and a debate on this issue is required, it should be one couched in facts and reasonably logical assumptions. That article has little of either.

I agree. Any article with this amount of wild speculation and hypotheticals cannot be anything but weak.

[cornafean]

Ending the "Ban"/Ending the Ban on RUC-PSNI/Brit Soldiers or police and allowing Soccer/Rugby in Croke Park were all going to be the end of the GAA  according to the doom mongers like Mr Conway.

Funnily enough I don't remember any doom mongering from Mr Conway about the consequences of ending the "Ban". Maybe this is because he was a primary school child at the time the Ban was lifted.

[ONeill]

But its the realms of fantasy if anyone thinks these counties would be capable of winning an all-ireland in a champions league system.  The stronger counties may want to abolish the provincial system but where does that leave these counties. Do we exclude these counties from the competition because they aren't of the required standard for a a champions league format.

For anyone who thinks a champions league will change the status quo should look at the soccer equivalent and see how many clubs from nowhere have won the competition. A champions league format will only suit the strong counties even more in my view.

The reason that it's the same teams at the business end of the CL is because of the lucretive nature of it. The rich get richer and buy their way to success. This cannot happen in our sport.

Look at Wicklow, Sligo, Antrim and Longford this year. They were competitve with the very best. GAA doesn't have a dominant 4-5 teams who'll cream the rest in the league section year in, year out if it happened. There's Kerry.

[INDIANA]

Yes, because the last thing we want is a system that properly reflects the relative merits of teams and makes it more likely that the best team actually wins it!

The best team already does win under the current system. You're not seriously suggesting that a CL would have made a blind bit of difference to the fact that Kerry won it this season? Because it wouldn't.
Under a CL system Kerry, Tyrone and Cork would cream at least 16-18 counties by cricket scores.

For me all these system changes will change nothing bar a return to knockout. Because at least then when kerry, tyrone etc are beaten they are out. thats the only system that would give a weaker county with a nice draw any chance. The league system only suits the strong.

[Rossfan]

If it's called a CHAMPIONSHIP surely the whole point is that the strong teams will be winning it and no matter what system you use that won't change.
As for this "isnt it great to have a shock" along the way... usually the "shocking" get short shrift in their next game.
The Qualifier system introduced in 2001 has led to Limerick,Wexford, Sligo, Fermanagh and Westmeath at least improving themselves by being able to play outside the provincial straitjacket.
If you go with Champions League type systems then the logical consequence is two or three tiers with promotion/relegation.
The one good point about round robin type early rounds is that Co Boards would be able to make better arrangements for Club Championships as they would know for certain at least 3 of the County teams fixtures in the Summer.

[ONeill]

Yes, because the last thing we want is a system that properly reflects the relative merits of teams and makes it more likely that the best team actually wins it!

The best team already does win under the current system. You're not seriously suggesting that a CL would have made a blind bit of difference to the fact that Kerry won it this season? Because it wouldn't.
Under a CL system Kerry, Tyrone and Cork would cream at least 16-18 counties by cricket scores.

Absolutely no basis for this at all. Kerry met Sligo (div4), Antrim (div4) and Longford (bottom of div3) this year. Did you watch those games?

[INDIANA]

Yes, because the last thing we want is a system that properly reflects the relative merits of teams and makes it more likely that the best team actually wins it!

The best team already does win under the current system. You're not seriously suggesting that a CL would have made a blind bit of difference to the fact that Kerry won it this season? Because it wouldn't.
Under a CL system Kerry, Tyrone and Cork would cream at least 16-18 counties by cricket scores.

Absolutely no basis for this at all. Kerry met Sligo (div4), Antrim (div4) and Longford (bottom of div3) this year. Did you watch those games?

Every bit of basis for it. None of those 3 will ever contest an alll-ireland semi final in our lifetime in a champions league system. In a CL system a team like Kerry could lose 2/3 times a season and still make the final. Really can't see any merit for it.

[ONeill]

If we're talking 8 groups of 4 and you lose 2/3 times, you're more than likely out!

[Leo]

"The GAA needs a greater, not a lesser provincial focus. We waste time, effort and money flirting with Australians who don't give a XXXX about us. Meanwhile, we betray a gaelic heritage cornerstone – the provinces – whilst professional rugby gleefully grabs those provincial clothes. Our treatment of the inter-provincials is shameful. Semi-finals hidden away on winter Saturdays and finals played in GAA hot-beds like Abu Dhabi, Rome and Paris."

I agree wholeheartedly about the ludicrous Aussie junkets but Mark misses the point about the rugby setup entirely. The emergence of the provincial rugby teams came about because of a clever strategy by IRFU to cope with professionalism, recognising that the country could only sustain about 4 professional clubs and turning each of the provinces effectively into club sides - with massive results. Meantime the rugby clubs have all had to adjust to operating at a lower level but they still operate in all-Ireland structures for the major competitions.

As for our treatment of the inter-provincials tin GAA, they lost their own way as over the years supporters voted with their feet and stayed away in their increasing numbers. 

On the major issue of retaining provincial councils I feel they can be are georgraphically and economically suited to most GAA activity but are a hindrance to continued development of senior inter-county competition. If we are to retain our traditional county structures - and I think we should except for Dublinn which should surely be split to reflect demographic change - then we need to revitalise the league and championship set-up to provide at least 26 competitive weeks and at least 8 games for each county in the "group" stages, 4 at a home venue, before moving nto knock-out stages. Inn this the provinicl councils would have no role. There is a "jobs for the  boys" aspect to these councils which clearlyneeds redressed but anyone  with radical ideas will never get near those positions.

[A Quinn Martin Production]

Ending the "Ban"/Ending the Ban on RUC-PSNI/Brit Soldiers or police and allowing Soccer/Rugby in Croke Park were all going to be the end of the GAA  according to the doom mongers like Mr Conway.

Funnily enough I don't remember any doom mongering from Mr Conway about the consequences of ending the "Ban". Maybe this is because he was a primary school child at the time the Ban was lifted.

Ah, Mark would love you for that.  Primary school?  A-Levels maybe!!

[JUst retired]

Leo,why split Dublin in two? Is one bad team not enough?