"For the first time in several years we've had a statement from our GAA leadership which unashamedly and courageously spells out what the GAA is and why."
That's Of One Belief's high-level response to the GAA's 8 July published position on formal recognition of the GPA.
At last we have people stating the obvious, ie that:
"GAA players play our games as a recreation of choice"
And:
"The GAA belongs to the tens of thousands of Irish people who participate in GAA activities in their respective local communities, ranging from the selfless volunteers who seek to improve the quality of life, sense of unity and belonging in their communities to those who are spectators of our games. In essence, the GAA exists because of the voluntary efforts of its members."
It seems we now too have a President who both believes that and is prepared to act on it.
But reading Wednesday's GAA statement still begs some fundamental questions. For example:
"How did we ever allow ourselves to get into the pay-for-play mess we're now so clearly in? How have we allowed an elite group of the people who benefit most from what the GAA delivers threaten and bully their way to the heart of our decision-making? And why have we people taking us into areas which are anathema to the principles outline above, ie pay-for-play; pay-per-view TV; and the increasingly poisonous dalliance with the AFL?"
What's most harmful of all is the GPA's shameful demand to pocket 5% of the GAA's gross revenues. That of course is the inevitable consequence of the disastrous GAA pay-for-play grants scheme. In the light of the GPA's demand, some high-level GAA people really do need to consider what they've colluded in over the past couple of years and examine their consciences as to how they contributed to the unholy mess the GAA now finds itself in. As one journalist recently put it, it's not a mess the GAA can wish away.
Some very unpleasant chickens have now come home to roost around Jones Road.
Whilst welcoming the clear statement of core principles, Of One Belief also retains a sense of unease about several aspects of Wednesday's statement. As GAA volunteers we think a number of questions deserve open and honest answers:
• The "full support of GAA Central Council" is claimed for the GAA's work to date on GPA recognition. But was that "full support" ever mandated at County and Club level? We all know the answer to that: it never was. The pay-for-play grants were voted through six working days after they were revealed to the GAA membership. In the same way a Tyrone Motion opposing GPA recognition, passed by a huge majority at the 2008 Tyrone County Convention, was prevented from even being discussed at the GAA's 2009 Annual Congress. Does the GAA really belong to those tens of thousands of Irish people or to an elite, self-interested few?
• Just who or what is this "GPA" that some people want recognised? In February 2007 the Tyrone County Committee wrote to the then President asking precisely that question. Twenty-eight months later a response is still awaited on the issues raised in that letter. But recent revelations about a private limited company called Gaelic Players Management Ltd beg absolutely fundamental questions about just who or what occupies that "GPA seat" on the GAA's Central Council. There's a serious piece of investigative journalism needed here. Maybe someone will take up the challenge!
• If we're serious about player involvement in the GAA (and some of us actually are) then let's do something serious about it. Hold a place on every GAA committee, in every unit and at every level, for a player representative. Will there be a GPA rush to sit on Scór committees? To wrestle with fixtures schedules? To roll out child protection and health and safety? To fund-raise for others in the GAA? And do it all wholly at your own expense? We await the surge! Or is GPA involvement just about siphoning off GAA money into the pockets of an elite few?
• The GAA is a choice-based membership organisation. You're either a member or you're not: and it's yourself, and nobody else, who chooses whether you want to be a member. Any move to "recognise" and then give special privileges to any group within the membership runs contrary to the whole membership principle. Political parties forbid "parties-within-parties." Credit Union shareholders are Credit Union shareholders. And we've seen in the Irish Catholic Church where "special status" and groups-within-groups inevitably brings you. The only reason for "recognition" is to give people special status. Why are we doing that within the GAA? And if we concede it to one self-defined internal interest group, how can we deny it to any other? This is just the first of many cans of worms which will be opened here. Above all, what does it say to those who don't merit "recognition"? That they're somehow lesser or inferior? It all comes back to whether we really believe that the GAA belongs to those tens-of-thousands of Irish people ... or whether they're just the foot-soldiers for an entirely more worthy elite.
• In any case our GAA Rule Book is quite clear on this all. Rule 20 deals with Allegiance and states: "Clubs and Counties shall insist that the first allegiance of their members is to the Association and its games". So what is it to be ... allegiance to the GAA ... or to the GPA ... or to any other self-nominated group that comes along? If someone wants to change things, let them try to change the Rule, But that would mean initiating a GAA-wide debate ... would mean ordinary GAA people voting on it ... would mean going to Congress. And some of our top people patently don't like those things!
• What exactly does the Statement mean when it talks about "joint GAA/GPA sponsorships"? That sounds like the grants debacle writ large all over again. We either have GAA sponsorship or we don't. It's either controlled by the GAA or it's not. And money earned on the back of all the members of the GAA either goes fully into the GAA kitty or it doesn't. And it's either fully controlled by the GAA or it isn't. Joint involvement in financial affairs runs counter to any basic principles of corporate governance and is the road to disaster. The GAA can't sign up for this.
• The notion of the inter-County game as the GAA's great profit-centre is one of life's enduring myths. Few things on earth are as financially unsustainable as inter-County GAA activity. It's far-and-away the most expensive part of our portfolio. It consumes up to 80% of a County's income, most of which is put there by volunteers reaching deep into their pockets: were the voluntary input of those same people ever costed, then County teams would cost several times their County's annual income. And that's not even looking at the capital investment put into providing stadia for the County games. But in the GAA we value; sustain; cherish; and invest in inter-County games and teams because of what they deliver for our communities. And we want to continue to do that, not turn it into some grubby, sordid business making money for a self-selected, self-serving elite.
• We need to tell the truth, not peddle the myths about the finances of the inter-County game. Last weekend a former inter-County player instanced the need for players to get "their share" of the "Croke Park soccer-and-rugby-money". What are the realities here? They're quite simple – and brutal. Every GAA County got a one-off payment of €0.25m as a result of Croke Park being opened up. That was/is it. And that would just about cover the cost of the now-expected annual holiday for Senior inter-County teams. What "more share" do people feel they need? We're long past some realism here.
• Another reality is that, based on figures it released to the Oireachtas Committee on Arts, Sport and Tourism, the GPA's own annual commercial income of €0.90m is greater than that of most GAA County Boards. Yet it wants a percentage of all GAA income plus a fixed €0.05m per month from the GAA. And some of us thought that financial fairy-tales died with Anglo-Irish!
• Just what is this "player welfare" that now seems to be the bounden duty of every non-playing GAA member to deliver? The original gripe peddled was to get away from just "the-Rich-Tea-and-milk" after training (though most GAA volunteers haven't even got the length of that luxury yet) ... but now it seems we're required to provide employment services; health services; and education for our elite players. What's next on the shopping list: help with their housing; pension; marriage/partner; child-rearing; clothing; holiday and car (the ones we don't already meet); and PR costs? The really dangerous thing is that those options aren't really a joke any more.
• Why as GAA volunteers have we been kept in the dark about so much of this? The openness of the 8 July Statement is refreshing and welcome. It's nice to be treated as adults, to be given access to issues that are of fundamental concern to us. But why were we not given sight of the 27 February 2009 paper which evidently outlined "our" (sic) position on recognition to the GPA? Why was this done in secret? Why do paid people have a bigger role in all of this than the volunteers? Unfortunately it dove-tailed with an appalling level of behind-closed-doors all the way through this rancid business. After all, in terms of the player pay-for-play grants, Central Council; the DRA; and Congress all managed to approve an "expenses scheme" (sic) the detail of which they were never shown!
• After the atomic bombs had been dropped on Japan, the Emperor Hirohito broadcast to the Japanese people and told them: "The war has not necessarily gone in our favour." The GAA's 8 July Statement's claim that the government grants are an example of GAA/GPA collaborative success surely sits up there with the Emperor's use of language! If the grants debacle represented "success" we'd dread to think what failure might look like.
Christy Cooney has started well. He's shown courage and loyalty to who and what we are. But we still have work to do to get rid of the malignancy that's been allowed to creep into the GAA.
Those of us who opposed the grants are grateful for and proud of our involvement with the GAA. It may sound arrogant, but we've been there when others weren't. We're still there after others left. We did and still do the work that others won't. And we fund and provide for our players when others merely pontificate from the ditch. But we won't concede the GAA without a fight. And the fight's far from over.
Back in the real GAA world there are teams to coach; gear to buy and wash; dressing rooms to sweep out; tickets to sell and buy; lottos to run; young people to help develop; pitches to build and maintain; major GAA-related bank loans to personally guarantee; County teams to fund and to follow; and communities to sustain. It's a GAA that exists regardless of what happens at the All-Ireland Quarter-Final stage and beyond. More crucially, it's a GAA that will exist very happily without any All-Ireland Quarter-Finals at all. But it's a GAA that many who should know better try to ignore or pretend doesn't exist.
It's long past time we all got back to real GAA business. The GAA's 8 July Statement marks a possible start on the journey back. Did someone say: "A lot done ... more to do"? Let's make sure we make a better fist of it than that other lot did.
Gwan ye good thing
The best and most comprehensive statement i have ever read on this issue. I would like to see a copy of it in the hands of every GAA member. Its time to start the fightback and drive this parasitical GPA from our midst. No negotiation, no recognition, no contact, let them wither away.
Quote from: Pangurban on July 10, 2009, 03:21:12 AM
The best and most comprehensive statement i have ever read on this issue. I would like to see a copy of it in the hands of every GAA member. Its time to start the fightback and drive this parasitical GPA from our midst. No negotiation, no recognition, no contact, let them wither away.
I love the people like yourself who are outraged the Aussie are taking players but could careless if a player gives it up due to the demands placed on them and the treatment some get.
Bring the GPA on board,keep your enemy close .
Well put Ziggy. Excellent argument ...... now let's see if the opposition can come up with as comprehensive a reply. Me thinks not. And I agree totally that the business model of inter-county football is unsustainable. People get too carried away with a few full houses in Croke Park in August and September. The economic landscape of Ireland is changing rapidly and not for the better.... if GAA clubs and counties found it hard to pay the bills before, its only going to get harder.
Where would the 5% go if it was given to them?
How much would be eaten up in "administrative costs?"
Did you write this Ziggy? Want to able to give credit where its due.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 10, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
Quote from: Pangurban on July 10, 2009, 03:21:12 AM
The best and most comprehensive statement i have ever read on this issue. I would like to see a copy of it in the hands of every GAA member. Its time to start the fightback and drive this parasitical GPA from our midst. No negotiation, no recognition, no contact, let them wither away.
could careless if a player gives it up due to the demands placed on them and the treatment some get.
Bring the GPA on board,keep your enemy close .
I don't believe anyone wants to see a return to the bad old days where some county boards treated IC players terribly - cold water showers, a ham sandwich after training etc - that's not the case for the vast majority though
The GAA have tried to bring the GPA on board as a part of the organisation - the GPA want to be independent and demand millions without any detailed explanation of hos they will use it..
I love the way the GPA spokepersons say that the GPA are the "experts" in the player welfare initiatives and that the GAA are too busy doing other things.
Do they seriously believe that they are the experts ??
http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=addreply&tid=661547&qid=661548
Seems to have came from AFR
Is the statement not from "Of One Belief"?? I'd say Mark Conway had a hand in this!
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 11:26:22 AM
Is the statement not from "Of One Belief"?? I'd say Mark Conway had a hand in this!
Whoever hand(s) are in this, it's extremely well written and hard to argue against. Home truths galore.
The Nordie backwoods are still rearing them alright.
Quote from: orangeman on July 10, 2009, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 11:26:22 AM
Is the statement not from "Of One Belief"?? I'd say Mark Conway had a hand in this!
Whoever hand(s) are in this, it's extremely well written and hard to argue against. Home truths galore.
Totally agree, there was a very sharp mind behind the composition of that piece.
Quote from: Gnevin on July 10, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
Bring the GPA on board,keep your enemy close .
The problem with that is that while it's preferable to have the GPA inside the tent, the GPA leadership are clearly not interested.
If they want to remain independent, fine, but in that case why should the GAA hand over a cheque for €2.6m per annum to them with no say over how it's to be spent?
Quote from: thebandit on July 10, 2009, 09:51:31 AM
Where would the 5% go if it was given to them?
How much would be eaten up in "administrative costs?"
They have to cover Dessies wages somehow without eating into the contributions from the poor hard-pressed inter-County players. ::)
Oh Jaysus, what a load of whimsical bollox.
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense. I can't believe they mention washing jerseys again... Please don't think you or anyone else had any influence in Cooney's admirably strong statement.
What Cooney has rightly recognised is this - the GPA are correct in what they are trying to achieve/address but they will do it on the GAA's terms. Dessie is a poor figure head for a player body and if I was an inter-county player I'd be calling for a more palatable leader who is willing to adhere to the ethos of our Games as well as work in the best interests of our players.
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
Oh Jaysus, what a load of whimsical bollox.
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense. I can't believe they mention washing jerseys again... Please don't think you or anyone else had any influence in Cooney's admirably strong statement.
What Cooney has rightly recognised is this - the GPA are correct in what they are trying to achieve/address but they will do it on the GAA's terms. Dessie is a poor figure head for a player body and if I was an inter-county player I'd be calling for a more palatable leader who is willing to adhere to the ethos of our Games as well as work in the best interests of our players.
What is it they are trying to achieve...apart from taking some massive steps backwards in recent weeks? What the GPA (whatever it is) need to realise is what anyone with an ounce of PR nous can see staring them in the face. Dessie and Donal Og are the two most divisive figures in gaelic games at the moment and they should f**k up for a week or two
In fairness O'neill the article makes a number of relevant points that need answered. What I would like to know, among other things, is who qualifies to be a member of the GPA? Are you only eligible if you ar a current county squad member? Will this limit the squad numbers? Are past players eligible to be members? How many years do we go back? Where is it going to end? The "Of one voice" brigade are at least raising these issues and others, and I for one am glad someone is asking questions.
Great Article by the way Ziggy.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 11:26:22 AM
Is the statement not from "Of One Belief"?? I'd say Mark Conway had a hand in this!
Correct QMP.
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense.
Cmon O'Neill - do your homework
They disbanded last year after failing in their efforts (as far as the DRA) to prevent the grants to IC players. They'd exhausted all the means within the GAA to prevent them and failed.
They've released a well thought out statement in response to the GPA's demand for millions this week.
Unlike Cooney who has full time professionals to write his press releases, they're volunteers who possibly don't have the same amount of spare time to prepare detailed responses to the GPA..
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 01:00:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
Oh Jaysus, what a load of whimsical bollox.
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense. I can't believe they mention washing jerseys again... Please don't think you or anyone else had any influence in Cooney's admirably strong statement.
What Cooney has rightly recognised is this - the GPA are correct in what they are trying to achieve/address but they will do it on the GAA's terms. Dessie is a poor figure head for a player body and if I was an inter-county player I'd be calling for a more palatable leader who is willing to adhere to the ethos of our Games as well as work in the best interests of our players.
What is it they are trying to achieve...apart from taking some massive steps backwards in recent weeks? What the GPA (whatever it is) need to realise is what anyone with an ounce of PR nous can see staring them in the face. Dessie and Donal Og are the two most divisive figures in gaelic games at the moment and they should f**k up for a week or two
It would be better all round if they were replaced totally - that picture of Dessie and Donal at the most recent press conference had most people seething.
The GPA weould do well to appoint new, more diplomatic, more media savy representatives.
Quote from: orangeman on July 10, 2009, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 01:00:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
Oh Jaysus, what a load of whimsical bollox.
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense. I can't believe they mention washing jerseys again... Please don't think you or anyone else had any influence in Cooney's admirably strong statement.
What Cooney has rightly recognised is this - the GPA are correct in what they are trying to achieve/address but they will do it on the GAA's terms. Dessie is a poor figure head for a player body and if I was an inter-county player I'd be calling for a more palatable leader who is willing to adhere to the ethos of our Games as well as work in the best interests of our players.
What is it they are trying to achieve...apart from taking some massive steps backwards in recent weeks? What the GPA (whatever it is) need to realise is what anyone with an ounce of PR nous can see staring them in the face. Dessie and Donal Og are the two most divisive figures in gaelic games at the moment and they should f**k up for a week or two
It would be better all round if they were replaced totally - that picture of Dessie and Donal at the most recent press conference had most people seething.
The GPA weould do well to appoint new, more diplomatic, more media savy representatives.
I agree 100% - their presence riles too many people.
The GPA have senior articulate, media savvy guys in top positions (who didn't play IC) - I don't see why they aren't used more..
Quote from: orangeman on July 10, 2009, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on July 10, 2009, 01:00:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 10, 2009, 12:33:20 PM
Oh Jaysus, what a load of whimsical bollox.
This is the same ofwanbelief that made a hoopla a year ago and then disappeared - no protests, no voice - and celebrated Tyrone's win, celebrated the same players who quietly received the grants that they attempted to rally against. Then they jump on Cooney's bandwagon with the same old romantic nonsense. I can't believe they mention washing jerseys again... Please don't think you or anyone else had any influence in Cooney's admirably strong statement.
What Cooney has rightly recognised is this - the GPA are correct in what they are trying to achieve/address but they will do it on the GAA's terms. Dessie is a poor figure head for a player body and if I was an inter-county player I'd be calling for a more palatable leader who is willing to adhere to the ethos of our Games as well as work in the best interests of our players.
What is it they are trying to achieve...apart from taking some massive steps backwards in recent weeks? What the GPA (whatever it is) need to realise is what anyone with an ounce of PR nous can see staring them in the face. Dessie and Donal Og are the two most divisive figures in gaelic games at the moment and they should f**k up for a week or two
It would be better all round if they were replaced totally - that picture of Dessie and Donal at the most recent press conference had most people seething.
The GPA weould do well to appoint new, more diplomatic, more media savy representatives.
I think you are right there orangeman.
i dont think anyone has any difficulty with the presence of a player welfare body that looks after player needs such as insurance, injury schemes or even help with employment. I think this is what fergal mccusker etc had envisaged when setting up the organisation.
the main issue that general GAA members appear to have with the GPA is that they are an unelected bunch purporting to represent what is a tiny elite band of GAA member and have basically burst into OUR association and began making all sorts of demands. It appears to me that Dessie and Donal Og will not be happy until 1) pay for play of some kind is introduced. 2) they get a good strike of some sort.
They try to make it look as if they are working for 'player welfare' simply to attempt to justify their actions.
For the reasons outlined above and because of the GPA leaderships general demeanour and the way they go about their business i do not believe that they will ever be able to garnish enough support from general gaa members or be able to perform any sort of reconciliation with the gaa.
***This is not even taking into account the excellent points bud made earlier in the thread regarding their business plan and lack of accountability etc.
In respect of the article posted by ziggy i think it is an excellent peice and addresses many important issues.
Because they see themselves as the cash generators for the organisation they believe the balance of power exists with them. Ie through using strikes etc. Now if a strike was called- I would never go to watch Dublin again as long as any of the strikers were involved. But i'm not so sure everybody else would. Thats what they are banking on. Has the majority of the Gaa membership got the bottle to see this through to the end? The GPA believe they don't. And that is where this battle will be won and lost.
Very good article in todays Gaelic life by Declan bogue regarding the GPA. He brings up one issue I've always wondered about, how can ex-players still be members of the GPA and how can a body that is all about player welfare stop any player joining as in the cork hurlers brought in during the latest strike?
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 02:25:21 PM
Because they see themselves as the cash generators for the organisation they believe the balance of power exists with them. Ie through using strikes etc. Now if a strike was called- I would never go to watch Dublin again as long as any of the strikers were involved. But i'm not so sure everybody else would. Thats what they are banking on. Has the majority of the Gaa membership got the bottle to see this through to the end? The GPA believe they don't. And that is where this battle will be won and lost.
I think this is where th GPA are coming from - the GPA who allegedly were involved to some degree in the Cork strikes have seen that they can over throw the GAA county boards. Ok this last Cork strike took longer to resolve than they thought. But the GPA are sure that they can win the hearts and minds of most people by going on strike in the middle of the gaa season. Historically the GPA have realised that there's no point in starting any of these threats in October - April - low / closed season for the GAA. So they're turning up the heat in July - high season for the GAA.
The day they go on strike, they're finished.
So I hope they DO press the nuclear button.
QuoteThe day they go on strike, they're finished.
So I hope they DO press the nuclear button
I would be of the same belief. If they strike they are finished, and whatever small public opinion that's left in their favour at this stage would be gone.
Quote from: orangeman on July 10, 2009, 02:30:30 PM
I think this is where th GPA are coming from - the GPA who allegedly were involved to some degree in the Cork strikes have seen that they can over throw the GAA county boards. Ok this last Cork strike took longer to resolve than they thought. But the GPA are sure that they can win the hearts and minds of most people by going on strike in the middle of the gaa season. Historically the GPA have realised that there's no point in starting any of these threats in October - April - low / closed season for the GAA. So they're turning up the heat in July - high season for the GAA.
The day they go on strike, they're finished.
So I hope they DO press the nuclear button.
Which threats are you referring to that only started in the summer? did the cork strike not start in the autumn?
any thruth in the rumour Of one belief are looking for 2% of CLG income in order to keep alive the amateur spirit of CLG
Am I "the only person" to notice the "enormous amount" of "quotation marks" in that "press release".
!!!!and exclamation marks!!!!!
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 02:25:21 PM
Because they see themselves as the cash generators for the organisation they believe the balance of power exists with them. Ie through using strikes etc. Now if a strike was called- I would never go to watch Dublin again as long as any of the strikers were involved. But i'm not so sure everybody else would. Thats what they are banking on. Has the majority of the Gaa membership got the bottle to see this through to the end? The GPA believe they don't. And that is where this battle will be won and lost.
The ones with your attitude Indiana are the Club Officers, the Club Coaches, Finance Committee etc etc. I am certain many of the doers within the GAA would consider their positions (I have made my own mind up). Where will the GAA be if the doers all go on strike?
So lets make sure all administrators, managers, physio's, officials etc are all amateurs then if the feeling is that it is such an amateur organisation and a privilidge to belong to....Lets let the players do whatever they want in regards to training/drinking holidaying etc and not maky any comments about performances etc...
I thought you were older DFS1.
Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2009, 03:00:15 PM
any thruth in the rumour Of one belief are looking for 2% of CLG income in order to keep alive the amateur spirit of CLG
Members of the "Uber Gaels Purity police" would never stoop so low ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2009, 03:00:15 PM
any thruth in the rumour Of one belief are looking for 2% of CLG income in order to keep alive the amateur spirit of CLG
Members of the "Uber Gaels Purity police" would never stoop so low ;D
It'll be all up whenever we start paying Roscommon players! ;)
Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2009, 03:00:15 PM
any thruth in the rumour Of one belief are looking for 2% of CLG income in order to keep alive the amateur spirit of CLG
I think they should be fcuked out of the GAA - every last one of them.
About as intelligent as your own statement - Play the ball please Rosnarun
Brilliant!! Am proud of Mark Conway being from Tyrone and ofonebelief started here. GAA has to hold firm.
Good stuff Ziggy! Love you man :D
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 10, 2009, 04:05:45 PM
So lets make sure all administrators, managers, physio's, officials etc are all amateurs then if the feeling is that it is such an amateur organisation and a privilidge to belong to....Lets let the players do whatever they want in regards to training/drinking holidaying etc and not maky any comments about performances etc...
The Gaa has agreed to fund their activities under the umbrella of the association. 25m is already spent on player welfare. All players receive expenses cheques if they require them. Whats the difference between that and a physio. NOt all managers are paid. The Dublin manager doesn't get a cent for instance. Think before you post the next time maybe.
Have a look at all the other amateur orgnaisations who have paid positions while the particpants aren't directly paid. There are many.
Has anyone mentioned Roscommon yet? Biggest arguement against pay for play going.
Excellent post.
The GPA should be told to FO. I'm sure it wont be too hard to find 15 lads in every county who will take the place of the "stars".
How exactly does the GPA reckon they will distribute these funds and who exactly is eligible? Is this going to be retrospective?
There would be a lot of fun for the GPA picking out the 30 squad members who would get a share of this. Does this mean that they will control the panel selection for the season? If a manager drops a player will he still get his "grant"?
very murky waters and should never have been entertained in the first place. One word for the gpa - scum.
Quote from: carribbear on July 10, 2009, 04:56:31 PM
Excellent post.
The GPA should be told to FO. I'm sure it wont be too hard to find 15 lads in every county who will take the place of the "stars".
How exactly does the GPA reckon they will distribute these funds and who exactly is eligible? Is this going to be retrospective?
There would be a lot of fun for the GPA picking out the 30 squad members who would get a share of this. Does this mean that they will control the panel selection for the season? If a manager drops a player will he still get his "grant"?
very murky waters and should never have been entertained in the first place. One word for the gpa - scum.
Sure they found 15 in Cork when their demi Gods were on strike and the GPA elitists refused to represent them... aye your right f** the GPA.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 10, 2009, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 10, 2009, 04:05:45 PM
So lets make sure all administrators, managers, physio's, officials etc are all amateurs then if the feeling is that it is such an amateur organisation and a privilidge to belong to....Lets let the players do whatever they want in regards to training/drinking holidaying etc and not maky any comments about performances etc...
The Gaa has agreed to fund their activities under the umbrella of the association. 25m is already spent on player welfare. All players receive expenses cheques if they require them. Whats the difference between that and a physio. NOt all managers are paid. The Dublin manager doesn't get a cent for instance. Think before you post the next time maybe.
Have a look at all the other amateur orgnaisations who have paid positions while the particpants aren't directly paid. There are many.
Credit Union is the one that stands out for me.
Quote from: carribbear on July 10, 2009, 04:56:31 PM
Excellent post.
The GPA should be told to FO. I'm sure it wont be too hard to find 15 lads in every county who will take the place of the "stars".
How exactly does the GPA reckon they will distribute these funds and who exactly is eligible? Is this going to be retrospective?
There would be a lot of fun for the GPA picking out the 30 squad members who would get a share of this. Does this mean that they will control the panel selection for the season? If a manager drops a player will he still get his "grant"?
very murky waters and should never have been entertained in the first place. One word for the gpa - scum.
Agreed its an honour to wear the county jersery and manys of man within the county would give an arm for a chance.
Quote from: rrhf on July 10, 2009, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2009, 03:00:15 PM
any thruth in the rumour Of one belief are looking for 2% of CLG income in order to keep alive the amateur spirit of CLG
I think they should be fcuked out of the GAA - every last one of them.
About as intelligent as your own statement - Play the ball please Rosnarun
merely a use of sarcasm highlighting both groups claim of ownership of the GAA, I am sorry if this offened you . would you like a warning in a PM 24 hours before my next use of such rhetorical devices
The GPA want 5%
The GAA won't give anybody a %.
So that's the end of the story - either the GPA agree to come under the umbrella organisation or else they'll have to move along.
Simple really.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 10, 2009, 04:05:45 PM
So lets make sure all administrators, managers, physio's, officials etc are all amateurs then if the feeling is that it is such an amateur organisation and a privilidge to belong to....Lets let the players do whatever they want in regards to training/drinking holidaying etc and not maky any comments about performances etc...
Are you Dessie Farrell?
in relation to the points you make:
1. managers should not be paid, end of story. yes it is the elephant in the room but it should not be happening. Many of those on this board share this view.
2. Physios work with GAA in the course of their employment. they do not carry out their work because they gain enjoyment for it. they spend 5 years at university study to become a physio in order to make a living. voluntary physios aren't an option im afraid.
3. Officials are paid only where necessary. In years gone by administration was much easier. nowadays with such a high quality operation running in croke park which we are all proud of (stadium/museum/retaurant) it is not feasible for this to be left solely to amateurs. couple this with insurance dealings/ the fact that most matches are now all ticket i could safely say that full time administrators is well justified.
We must remember that administrators are hired in order for us players to enjoy playing the games.
AND FINALLY
i am proud to be part of the gaa just as you say. i am proud of its amateur ethos and proud of the place it has within the communities of ireland. if dessie farrell wants to be part of a professional sport hes barking up the wrong tree with the gaa no matter how hard he tries to justify it.
Quote from: rosnarun on July 10, 2009, 05:06:26 PM
About as intelligent as your own statement - Play the ball please Rosnarun
merely a use of sarcasm highlighting both groups claim of ownership of the GAA, I am sorry if this offened you . would you like a warning in a PM 24 hours before my next use of such rhetorical devices
[/quote]
Ahh jasus Rosnarun ya didnt expect them Nordie lads would understand our culture in the West of never taking ourselves too seriously. ;D ;D
QuoteI wish the GPA would just feck away off.
just say it 3 times and click your heels
After reading that press release and a few of the comments afterwards some points come to mind.
Some posters have praised how well written and thought out it is, Hiro Hito ffs-I can see the smart alec comments and derision, had a GPA press release contained a similar line.
The press release states that the GPA want 5% of the GAA's gross income.This is not true,the GPA have asked for 5% of the GAA's commercial income.
They mention figures on team holidays.How many county teams go on holidays every year.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
They talk a lot about elitism.Sport by it's very nature is elitist!Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Who are 'Of One Belief',would they not be in contravention of Rule 20? If they disbanded last year where do their press releases come from?
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
The press release states that the GPA want 5% of the GAA's gross income.This is not true,the GPA have asked for 5% of the GAA's commercial income.
So that's all right then? Just to be a little bit professional?
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
They mention figures on team holidays.How many county teams go on holidays every year.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
Yes, counties have done it, but through
voluntary contributions, not siphoning off funds from HQ at the point of a (figurative) gun. And I (amongst many others) have been very glad to voluntarily contribute.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
They talk a lot about elitism.Sport by it's very nature is elitist!Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Amateur elitists. And there is nothing wrong with that. Once it becomes a mandatory requirement I think you will find that they may not be that elite for too much longer.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
Who are 'Of One Belief',would they not be in contravention of Rule 20?
No, they wouldn't be.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
If they disbanded last year where do their press releases come from?
They're amateur, therefore they don't need an organisation on perpetual paid standby.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
After reading that press release and a few of the comments afterwards some points come to mind.
Some posters have praised how well written and thought out it is, Hiro Hito ffs-I can see the smart alec comments and derision, had a GPA press release contained a similar line.
The press release states that the GPA want 5% of the GAA's gross income.This is not true,the GPA have asked for 5% of the GAA's commercial income.
They mention figures on team holidays.How many county teams go on holidays every year.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
They talk a lot about elitism.Sport by it's very nature is elitist!Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Who are 'Of One Belief',would they not be in contravention of Rule 20? If they disbanded last year where do their press releases come from?
Define commerical? Can mean anything from gate receipts to sponsorship. Like most things with the GPA - ambiguous at best.
Most teams that are successful get a holiday. The idea that failure should be promoted with an annual junket in my view is inherently wrong.
Most amateur sports have an elite element. ie " the best". Rowing, handball, triathletes, boxers - etc etc . Whats your point?
On the first point,it was inaccurate and misleading.The difference is massive.
On the second point, it was put across in the press release in a way to give the impression that all county teams are given a free holiday every year.Once again,how many are?
On the third point, Mandatoryelitists?????
On the fourth point, why would 'Of One Belief' not be in contravention of Rule 20 while the GPA are?
On the last point,if an organisation or grouping are disbanded they no longer exist,if they no longer exist how can they issue a press release? Maybe they are a self appointed grouping who can come and go as it suits.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 11, 2009, 12:45:22 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
After reading that press release and a few of the comments afterwards some points come to mind.
Some posters have praised how well written and thought out it is, Hiro Hito ffs-I can see the smart alec comments and derision, had a GPA press release contained a similar line.
The press release states that the GPA want 5% of the GAA's gross income.This is not true,the GPA have asked for 5% of the GAA's commercial income.
They mention figures on team holidays.How many county teams go on holidays every year.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
They talk a lot about elitism.Sport by it's very nature is elitist!Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Who are 'Of One Belief',would they not be in contravention of Rule 20? If they disbanded last year where do their press releases come from?
Define commerical? Can mean anything from gate receipts to sponsorship. Like most things with the GPA - ambiguous at best.
Most teams that are successful get a holiday. The idea that failure should be promoted with an annual junket in my view is inherently wrong.
Most amateur sports have an elite element. ie " the best". Rowing, handball, triathletes, boxers - etc etc . Whats your point?
Gate receipts aren't commercial revenue.
Your statement on holidays illustrates the hypocrisy surrounding this whole issue.
As I said before,sport by it's very nature is elitist,it is all about finding the best in a given discipline.'Of One Belief' use the term 'elitist' in a way so as to discredit the GPA.
It's not inaccurate whatsoever on the first point- commercial income means all income derived from your properties. Now define that one for me. You don't seem to see that the GPA fully intend for it to be interpreted any bloody way they like. If they wanted 5% of TV Revenue- they would say 5% of TV Revenue. So get out of that one Perry.
Quite a number get team holidays even for mediocrity.
Elitist sport doesn't mean being paid. As I've said below. All amateur sports have an elite level. So again I can't see your point on that.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
On the first point,it was inaccurate and misleading.The difference is massive.
Not sure what you mean here, but any guaranteed
pro rata income (5% commercial, gross, net, whatever, and there are massive differences involved)
is professionalism, if that's what you want fair enough, but the GAA is not the place for that particular mindset.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
On the second point, it was put across in the press release in a way to give the impression that all county teams are given a free holiday every year.Once again,how many are?
So what, what's your point? If the respective County Boards can afford it, then so what... they
still do not demand central monies as of a right.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
On the third point, Mandatoryelitists?????
What do you call professional sportsmen, i.e., 5K per week soccer players? It's not like their employers have the opt-out clause of
not paying them.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
On the fourth point, why would 'Of One Belief' not be in contravention of Rule 20 while the GPA are?
Can you explain how the 'Of One Belief' group could possibly be in contravention of Rule 20? The onus is on you to prove or demonstrate violation, not on the group to prove innocence since the OOB grouping are not hostile to the interests of the GAA in any way, quite the reverse. As for the GPA, I don't see how you can draw parallels.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
On the last point,if an organisation or grouping are disbanded they no longer exist,if they no longer exist how can they issue a press release? Maybe they are a self appointed grouping who can come and go as it suits.
The GAA is all about grassroots, not about organisations that must exist in order to voice an opinion - and if they manage to get a press release into the mainstream then so what?
As I said before, gate receipts aren't commercial revenue!In no way could the term 'commercial revenue' be taken to mean 'the GAA'S income'!
Outside the All-Ireland winners in 2008, how many county teams were taken on all-expenses paid holidays?Were the Christy Ring,Lory Meagher or Tommy Murphy Cup winners taken on holiday?If they weren't why was the figure for the team holiday included inthe press release?
Fear,the term 'gross revenue' means all the money the the GAA takes in every year,it is different to 'commercial revenue'.A football club's sponsorship is 'commercial revenue', their gate receipts and lotto sales etc. are not, the difference is massive and the term 'gross revenue' in the press release is inaccurate and misleading and possibly even mischievous!
You seem to take it as fact that the GPA are 'hostile to the interests of the GAA',I don't think they are.As you said I don't think it is up to the grouping to prove their innocence.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
Fear,the term 'gross revenue' means all the money the the GAA takes in every year,it is different to 'commercial revenue'.A football club's sponsorship is 'commercial revenue', their gate receipts and lotto sales etc. are not, the difference is massive and the term 'gross revenue' in the press release is inaccurate and misleading and possibly even mischievous!
You seem to take it as fact that the GPA are 'hostile to the interests of the GAA',I don't think they are.As you said I don't think it is up to the grouping to prove their innocence.
Sigh:
QuoteThe main stumbling block is the association's refusal to accept the GPA's demand for five per cent of the GAA's commercial income from gate receipts, TV revenue and sponsorship.
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/gaelic-football/gpas-tv-boycott-set-to-continue-1803336.html (http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/gaelic-football/gpas-tv-boycott-set-to-continue-1803336.html)
(Irish Independent, 2nd July)
QuoteIn addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the association to provide the GPA with 5pc of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-how-we-got-to-this-point--on-formal-recognition-1813403.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-how-we-got-to-this-point--on-formal-recognition-1813403.html)
(GAA statement quoted in Irish Independent, 9th July)
QuoteHowever, yesterday's public demand for five per cent of the GAA's commercial income – which Farrell said "revolves around gate receipts, TV rights, and the sponsorship monies" – will cause plenty of talk.
http://www.irishnews.com/articles/597/5776/2009/7/3/621677_3864822913308216We.html (http://www.irishnews.com/articles/597/5776/2009/7/3/621677_3864822913308216We.html)
(Irish News, 3rd July)
Come back when you've got a clue as to what you're talking about.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
You seem to take it as fact that the GPA are 'hostile to the interests of the GAA',I don't think they are.As you said I don't think it is up to the grouping to prove their innocence.
Any demand for money
per se, particularly by a grouping that is not actually
of the GAA, is hostile to the ethos of the GAA. Simple as.
Quote from: LaurelEye on July 11, 2009, 01:55:42 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
Fear,the term 'gross revenue' means all the money the the GAA takes in every year,it is different to 'commercial revenue'.A football club's sponsorship is 'commercial revenue', their gate receipts and lotto sales etc. are not, the difference is massive and the term 'gross revenue' in the press release is inaccurate and misleading and possibly even mischievous!
You seem to take it as fact that the GPA are 'hostile to the interests of the GAA',I don't think they are.As you said I don't think it is up to the grouping to prove their innocence.
Sigh:
QuoteThe main stumbling block is the association's refusal to accept the GPA's demand for five per cent of the GAA's commercial income from gate receipts, TV revenue and sponsorship.
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/gaelic-football/gpas-tv-boycott-set-to-continue-1803336.html (http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/gaelic-football/gpas-tv-boycott-set-to-continue-1803336.html)
(Irish Independent, 2nd July)
QuoteIn addition to this monthly payment, the GPA would expect such an agreement to include a commitment by the association to provide the GPA with 5pc of its gross income from all gate receipts, sponsorship and broadcast/media revenue.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-how-we-got-to-this-point--on-formal-recognition-1813403.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-how-we-got-to-this-point--on-formal-recognition-1813403.html)
(GAA statement quoted in Irish Independent, 9th July)
QuoteHowever, yesterday's public demand for five per cent of the GAA's commercial income – which Farrell said "revolves around gate receipts, TV rights, and the sponsorship monies" – will cause plenty of talk.
http://www.irishnews.com/articles/597/5776/2009/7/3/621677_3864822913308216We.html (http://www.irishnews.com/articles/597/5776/2009/7/3/621677_3864822913308216We.html)
(Irish News, 3rd July)
Come back when you've got a clue as to what you're talking about.
Hands up,I'm just in the process of throwing the spade away!(Time is never wasted when you learn something)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 11, 2009, 02:18:48 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
You seem to take it as fact that the GPA are 'hostile to the interests of the GAA',I don't think they are.As you said I don't think it is up to the grouping to prove their innocence.
Any demand for money per se, particularly by a grouping that is not actually of the GAA, is hostile to the ethos of the GAA. Simple as.
You paint the GAA as an organisation not concerned with money! If they are not
of the GAA how do they play the games?
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 02:26:59 AM
You paint the GAA as an organisation not concerned with money! If they are not of the GAA how do they play the games?
No, I don't, money is very necessary, but it's very necessary only in order to further the amateur ethos of the organisation, and widespread participation at all levels in our games. All of which takes... money, but not at an elite level.
Have you a master-plan where we can keep the thousands of teams at every level in every parish alive without money? At the minute we have thousands upon thousands of volunteers, but quite shockingly all that takes... money! But, guess what, the only money involved are the costs to keep such operations alive, not to line any pockets, rather to pay for the pitch lining, or grass cutting, or new juvenile footballs or hurls, etc.
What's your panacea?
The whole point is whether the GPA continue as they are as an organisation ,representing player's interests and raising their own finances as they do at present, or whether they are recognised officially.If they are recognised officially they will no longer have the option of raising their own finances.Any income generated from the player's body's activities would automatically have to become part of the GAA'S income after official recognition.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 02:59:06 AM
The whole point is whether the GPA continue as they are as an organisation ,representing player's interests and raising their own finances as they do at present, or whether they are recognised officially.If they are recognised officially they will no longer have the option of raising their own finances.Any income generated from the player's body's activities would automatically have to become part of the GAA'S income after official recognition.
If this was really the case I am not sure that many people would have an issue with it. The actual fact of the matter is; the GPA is controlled by a company called the Gaelic Players Management Company. That company is owned and controlled by 2 blokes whose identities are easily accessible as their names are tied with the company's accounts.
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Club Tyrone don't send anyone anywhere, any money raised is given directly to the County Board. Therefore the Club Tyrone money may very well be spent on the hurlers/clubs/referees as the Co Board sees fit.
Quote from: Rois on July 11, 2009, 10:28:02 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on July 11, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
.Has Club Tyrone ever sent the Tyrone hurlers on a holiday to Dubai or The Carribean,and if they did,did they give each player £3,000 spending money?
Organisations like Club Tyrone promote elitism!
Club Tyrone don't send anyone anywhere, any money raised is given directly to the County Board. Therefore the Club Tyrone money may very well be spent on the hurlers/clubs/referees as the Co Board sees fit.
hmmm - are you sure?
Yes
Quote from: Rois on July 11, 2009, 11:04:12 AM
Yes
Cross your heart? Rumour has it you've been wearing a new frock every month.
Mark Conway's piece is excellent and sums up exactly my own thoughts when I read the GAA's press release of earlier in the week. In summary I was (a) glad that the Cooney regime defined some baseline principles that the previous presidency never had the cojones to state, but (b) dismayed that the GAA seems determined to come to some sort of arrangement with this self-appointed gang of chancers, who have no status of any kind and should just be ignored. Ignoring them would be entirely the appropriate approach, especially as the evidence grows that ignoring them goads them into more and more ludicrous public displays of the self-destructive greed and incompetence that will do for them in short order without any intervention from the GAA. I can't understand why we're throwing them a lifeline.
I have a simple question for those who support the self-styled Gaelic Players' Association's demand that the GAA should hive off any percentage of its income for their exclusive use: why?
Suddenly the 'Grab All Association' legend disappears from popular use.
Hardy, as a premise I take it you feel inter-county players deserve nothing at all in terms of personal welfare, or trust the GAA to look after any such issues themselves, or you feel that they're well looked after anyway?
O'Neill, it's about as reasonable for you to take any of the above from what I posted as it would be for me to conclude from what you posted that you view the GAA as the 'Grab All Association'. The point of my post is that whatever the shortcomings in current provisions, I see no basis for inviting the self-styled "Gaelic Players' Association" to be the group to handle what they themselves term "player welfare" (but, as yet, have neglected to define, though they feel able to demand millions to fund it).
A small point: I wouldn't refer to the GAA as "themselves" but ourselves.
How about my question?
What about the comments on RTE this morning that both sides have been in negotiations for the past number of days? Can I take from that that the GPA accept what the GAA said in their statement as we have had no denial from them despite the rumblings that everything was not correct in the statement.
Quote from: antoinse on July 15, 2009, 12:23:48 PM
What about the comments on RTE this morning that both sides have been in negotiations for the past number of days? Can I take from that that the GPA accept what the GAA said in their statement as we have had no denial from them despite the rumblings that everything was not correct in the statement.
Nothing should cause surprise anymore.
The GPA will be hard to convince that their future lies anywhere else other than their own offices in Drumcondra, with their own staff etc.
Equally hard to convince will be the greater GAA membership who see the GPA as having no future at all other than within the GAA HQ.