INSURANCE

[macdanger2]

Can't pin all the blame on Solicitor either. People should have a bit of decency about them rather than the current view of, I've been involved in an accident, I deserve a claim. At the end of the day if a Solicitor's told his client has an injury they are there to take their client at their word and to work in their best interest. Bar a really obvious fabricated claim, it would be tough for a Solicitor to decide which is genuine or not. For me the blame should be laid firmly at the people who knowingly either fabricate or exaggerate their injury to try and make a few pound. I've no doubt some solicitors will harry their clients to include a PI claim and they should rightly be shot with a ball of their own sh!te. But for me it's a sign of the way society has went and the in for themselves mentality.

Absolutely agree.

I'd like to see the system changed so that if someone is genuinely injured, they would have all their medical / physio bills paid for but not get a massive payout because they got "whiplash" from a minor enough tip

[gallsman]

Part of the problem is the use of the term "fraudulent"

About four years ago I was turning right at the Merrion gates onto Sandymount strand. There was a red light and I was the third car back, with a string of cars behind me. Next thing I felt a smack in the back; the girl driving the Golf immediately behind had jumped into the back of me. It was no back breaker but it certainly gave us a jolt. I jumped out and asked her what she was thinking. Her response was "I thought you were moving off". I looked at the traffic lights, which were still red, and looked back at her in disbelief. She'd clearly been on her phone. There was some damage to the bumper and the boot lid wouldn't close so I took her insurance details and off we went.

The following day, I felt the tiniest strain in my neck. A paracetamol and a good night's sleep later and there wasn't a thing wrong with me. I had no intention of claiming for anything other than getting the car fixed but asked a barrister friend of mine what I'd have been looking at if I was of such a mind. He laughed when I told him the details - jumped into the back of me, from a stationary position, at a red light. He reckoned absolute minimum offer from insurance company, no questions asked would be 5k each for myself and the wife who was travelling with me.

I imagine these are some of the types of cases the insurance companies are calling "fraudulent" but would bite the hand off you to settle for a few grand as if it went to court it would have been open and shut in my favour with a bigger payout and costs awarded.

[macdanger2]

I imagine these are some of the types of cases the insurance companies are calling "fraudulent" but would bite the hand off you to settle for a few grand as if it went to court it would have been open and shut in my favour with a bigger payout and costs awarded.

Agreed. They're not outright fraudulent, more like disingenuous

[brokencrossbar1]

As someone who is dealing with this day and daily the attitude of the insurance companies has become very hostile in the last last 12 months. Whereas they would have settled cases readily in the last they are consistently refusing to agree to the assessment process, refusing to settle cases where liability is clearly not an issue and as a consequence they are driving up legal costs and potentially damages. I have 7 cases where they have paid vehicle damage, admitted liability but are refusing to settle the injury element. As a consequence I have had to issue proceedings. Across all 7 cases if they had settled them at the outset our costs would have been about €4,000. As I issued them and will run them to hearing between our costs, defence solicitors and barristers costs for all 7 will be around €100k. We could have sorted this out but they refused. I have to look after my clients. These are all genuine cases too. No vehicle damage was less than €1000 so that's not a minimal impact. There is an agenda since the cartel searches in July 2017 to push out. They have been price fixing and have been caught out. This is a deflection agenda.

Are the injuries genuine?

A scratch to a bumper could easily cost > 1k

Absolutely genuine....I know the man very well and he is crippled with back pain

What about the other 6 cases?

I am happy to stand over them  One particular company is involved with 4 of the 7 and the same modus operandi is in place. 

[brokencrossbar1]

The following day, I felt the tiniest strain in my neck. A paracetamol and a good night's sleep later and there wasn't a thing wrong with me. I had no intention of claiming for anything other than getting the car fixed but asked a barrister friend of mine what I'd have been looking at if I was of such a mind. He laughed when I told him the details - jumped into the back of me, from a stationary position, at a red light. He reckoned absolute minimum offer from insurance company, no questions asked would be 5k each for myself and the wife who was travelling with me.

That's not right at all....I'd get you at least 10k

[gallsman]

Jokes aside, and I've absolutely no doubt that you could have got me it with minimal effort, to me that's fraudulent. There was nothing wrong with me. Absolutely nothing.

There's no way to disprove it as all I'd have to do is turn up to a GP and say my neck was a bit sore. Having heard the facts of the incident there's absolutely no way they don't advise painkillers and bed rest. Court hears a girl drives into the back of someone at a red light, having been stationary, GP has advised test and pain management and the payout is guaranteed.

[brokencrossbar1]

Jokes aside, and I've absolutely no doubt that you could have got me it with minimal effort, to me that's fraudulent. There was nothing wrong with me. Absolutely nothing.

There's no way to disprove it as all I'd have to do is turn up to a GP and say my neck was a bit sore. Having heard the facts of the incident there's absolutely no way they don't advise painkillers and bed rest. Court hears a girl drives into the back of someone at a red light, having been stationary, GP has advised test and pain management and the payout is guaranteed.

maybe not fraudulent as the system is in place to cover injuries at whatever levels they are at.  The reality though is that this is not a new phenomenon.  We were discussing it in work the other day.  I have worked north/south of the border because of where I am from and remember that in the late 1990's early 00's before claims were 'big' the average payout for a whiplash over the border was between 7-10k punts.  Given inflation, currency change etc that's not a million miles away from where we are now.  The Government in the south created a monster when it put the PIAB system in place as it created a new level of bureaucracy.  The idea behind it was to create the space for the lay litigant.  There was a clear inequality of arms and as a result solicitors became directly involved in the assessment process,  which ultimately saw more cases than before were being issued.  I personally try to settle as many RTAs at the earliest opportunity as most times the injuries are not serious.  Unless there are broken bones or serious potential problems I will not issue.  Most solicitors are the same to be honest.  The reality is that 95% of cases settle within the first 6-8 months of the accident and I genuinely can count on 2 hands the amount of cases that I would have doubts about whether they are genuine.  Yes there is a bit of lily gilding with medical symptoms but insurance companies expect that and get their own doctors.  The narrative being pushed by the insurance companies is somewhat disingenuous.   

[Dinny Breen]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

[TabClear]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

Whats the nature of the claims Dinny? Its something that I have seen become contentious in a local community hall that is used for pilates/Yoga/Ciruits etc. Too many people on the committee doing favours for friends and after a minor incident (no claims or anything) the question was raised about whether the hall was actually insured for these activities there were a lot of blank faces.

[screenexile]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

I think the GAA present their entire portfolio of clubhouses throughout the country as one entity nearly and this makes it easier for an insurance company to accept the risk spread across so many buildings etc. They GAA then advise the clubs the premiums they have to pay each year based on what the new premium is. It can be quite unfair in that clubs with no claims have seen their premium rise significantly in recent years but at least they can get insured.

A one off Rugby club is not an attractive proposition. It would be worth the AIL/IRFU doing something similar or this will become more common!!

PS. No bouncy castles!!!!!!!

[seafoid]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

Could the IRFU not sort it out?

[Dinny Breen]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

Could the IRFU not sort it out?

You would like to think so but the IFRU's primary focus is the professional game. Not sure they would have any governance around this type of scenario.

[seafoid]

Athy Rugby Club in Kildare can't get any Public Liability Insurance because of previous and outstanding claims against them, all non-rugby related. Running the serious risk of having to shutdown if not resolved in the next week.

This is a worry for every sports club in the country with their own grounds.

How does GAA Public Liability insurance work?

Could the IRFU not sort it out?

You would like to think so but the IFRU's primary focus is the professional game. Not sure they would have any governance around this type of scenario.

They could help out with a guarantee or something while cover is secured elsewhere

[seafoid]

This is market failure.

[seafoid]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/athy-rfc-avoids-closure-after-securing-insurance-cover-38760603.html

John Mulligan 

December 6 2019 16:36 PM


The looming closure of one of the country's oldest rugby clubs has been averted after it secured insurance cover.

Athy Rugby Football Club in Co Kildare, which was established in 1880, warned its members earlier this week that it had been unable to obtain public liability insurance and so may have to close the club and its grounds effective from midnight next Monday.

But it has now secured cover, it confirmed this afternoon, leaving the club's committee and its 500 members breathing a collective sigh of relief.

Brendan Conroy, the club's honorary secretary, told members today that it has agreed terms through the Irish Rugby Football Union and Aon for insurance cover with Aviva Insurance.

"We are, therefore, pleased to confirm that this matter has been resolved and that we can continue to focus on developing this successful rugby club for the benefit of our members," he said.