Removal of Gaza flag in Croke Park!

[thebigfella]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

2) I'm not going to degrade myself by trotting out on here what I do or don't do for the people of Gaza.  As you don't know me personally then you cannot make any assumptions on that.  One thing is for sure though, I'd say reading by your message that I'm doing one thing more than you!  Also, its not about me, I simply started a thread on something that I felt people had a right to know about.  I'll leave it up to your own conscience as to whether or not you want to participate, as is your right!

My conscience is just fine so spare us all the emotional blackmail tripe.

[Aoise]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

1) Why would I want to get one over on the GAA as I am a lifelong member and supporter?  That really doesn't make sense.  I don't happen to think Rupert Murdoch will be too interested in what happens on Saturday as I'm sure he won't be personally watching, however, if one of the reasons for stopping the flying of a flag in Croke Park was anything to do with a Sky Corporation directive - that I would have an issue with!

You have read you very first post I assume?

My very first post was about a sky tv directive that was apparently mentioned by the officials last Saturday.  I still stand by that.  If the reason why they took the flag down had anything to do with Sky Tv, then I have an issue with that.  Do you not?

[Aoise]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

2) I'm not going to degrade myself by trotting out on here what I do or don't do for the people of Gaza.  As you don't know me personally then you cannot make any assumptions on that.  One thing is for sure though, I'd say reading by your message that I'm doing one thing more than you!  Also, its not about me, I simply started a thread on something that I felt people had a right to know about.  I'll leave it up to your own conscience as to whether or not you want to participate, as is your right!

My conscience is just fine so spare us all the emotional blackmail tripe.

No doubt it is!  I would well believe it.  Tell me then Big Fella as you haven't actually gave an opinion on anything apart from me, who incidentally you don't know.  Do you support the right of GAA members to quietly demonstrate in Croke Park on a humanitarian issue?

[johnneycool]

The GAA has in the not too distant past allowed itself to be a political football, i.e. the visit of Lizzy and the greek lad to Croke Park was all about politics as they might as well have went off to Tallagh stadium so lets not kid ourselves that the GAA is above politics.

If the GAA was above politics then Christy Cooney should have told Mary McAleese where to go when she wanted to show how nationalist Ireland had moved on and was now in friendly mode with our lovely aristocratic neighbours.

Fly your Palestine flag or even your Israeli flag in Croke Park if you want but in no way should the GAA be trying to dictate the narrative to the paying patrons and more than likely paid up members of the association to appease Sky, or whoever sponsors, but IMO I don't think the Murdocks or Sky will give a flying f**k if the place was awash with Palestine flags and the GAA shouldn't feel the need to apologise for it either.

[Rossfan]

What exactly will displaying Palestinian flags at a match in Croke Park do to help the poor people in Gaza?
A flying picket following every Government Minister might just have a bit more ( although of no practical use really) effect on the morons who abstained in that UN vote.

[AZOffaly]

I believe there's a mandate march on the Israeli Embassy on Saturday. That, to me, is more effective. However, I can see the point that the media may, or may not, decide to show that march. It'll be hard for the cameras not to show a flag at the match if there are a good few there.

However, I'd be uncomfortable that this would be construed as support for Hamas, as opposed to a protest against Israeli action. Protests like this can be very easily misinterpreted or spun.

[Aoise]

I believe there's a mandate march on the Israeli Embassy on Saturday. That, to me, is more effective. However, I can see the point that the media may, or may not, decide to show that march. It'll be hard for the cameras not to show a flag at the match if there are a good few there.

However, I'd be uncomfortable that this would be construed as support for Hamas, as opposed to a protest against Israeli action. Protests like this can be very easily misinterpreted or spun.

Why would anyone apart from Israeli propagandists see it as support for Hamas?  The Palestinian flag is not Hamas' flag therefore that is a moot point.  There have been numerous marches to the Isreali embassy, each one as ignored as the rest. This is why it has to be inside Croke Park. The ambassador still sits in Ireland looking on while we have a Government so chicken shit that they cannot deal with what is a humanitarian crisis.  A crisis bear in mind that has been escalated by weapons and machinery built and bought on this island!!!  David Norris had it right this week when he said Ireland's actions have been shameful.  Beyond contempt.

[AZOffaly]

I don't disagree with any of that. But like it or not, this *will* be seen or spun as pro Hamas by some people. Especially as the protest is not 'framed' or put in context by any official means.

[Sidney]

I don't recall the GAA having any problem with American flags at the 2001 All-Ireland football final.

This was 12 days after September 11th.

[AZOffaly]

True Sidney.

[Aoise]

What exactly will displaying Palestinian flags at a match in Croke Park do to help the poor people in Gaza?
A flying picket following every Government Minister might just have a bit more ( although of no practical use really) effect on the morons who abstained in that UN vote.

Rossfan, you have never been in a conflict situation obviously or you would know well what global recognition of your plight means to the people.  If citizens in other parts of the world show solidarity with the people of Gaza and it is visible (because the protests thus far certainly are not thanks to the media), it gives them some hope that something may be done from the international community to help them.  Social media will get those images to them instantly, and if it only gives someone hope then what harm?

More importantly, a stadium flying flags on a humanitarian cause will not allow the Government to continue to ignore this crisis.  And that is the purpose of this.  We are being made mugs off by these Governments.  They work for us for God's sake - make them remember that.  And maybe next time there is a vote at the UN or anywhere else on a humanitarian issue, they may just look over their shoulder at the people a wee bit more than they have, and vote properly to save lives.  I'm not saying one demonstration in Croke Park will do this on its own, but its a small start.

[Aoise]

I don't disagree with any of that. But like it or not, this *will* be seen or spun as pro Hamas by some people. Especially as the protest is not 'framed' or put in context by any official means.

I agree, but then what do we do?  Do we do nothing because we are afraid of propagandists?  Or do we just do the right thing?  I think the latter because people have rights of expression, and when that is done within a peaceful respectful context, then anyone who will spin it, will simply be wrong!  This is a black and white issue - there is no grey area on this.  Children are dying, they are now starving with no water/homes/sanitation.  If the west don't provide these and soon more children will die.  We have to try something!

[Hardy]

The GAA has in the not too distant past allowed itself to be a political football, i.e. the visit of Lizzy and the greek lad to Croke Park was all about politics as they might as well have went off to Tallagh stadium so lets not kid ourselves that the GAA is above politics.

If the GAA was above politics then Christy Cooney should have told Mary McAleese where to go when she wanted to show how nationalist Ireland had moved on and was now in friendly mode with our lovely aristocratic neighbours.

Fly your Palestine flag or even your Israeli flag in Croke Park if you want but in no way should the GAA be trying to dictate the narrative to the paying patrons and more than likely paid up members of the association to appease Sky, or whoever sponsors, but IMO I don't think the Murdocks or Sky will give a flying f**k if the place was awash with Palestine flags and the GAA shouldn't feel the need to apologise for it either.

Who is "the GAA"? It's you and me. As I keep saying, if you disagree with policy, there's a procedure open to you to have it changed. In the meantime, I'm sorry, but the current policy is the one mandated - i.e, it is de facto the policy of the majority of the membership. On what basis should your (by definition, minority) opinion override that of the majority?

As a matter of interest, what will be the wording of your AGM proposal?

[haranguerer]

I don't disagree with any of that. But like it or not, this *will* be seen or spun as pro Hamas by some people. Especially as the protest is not 'framed' or put in context by any official means.

I dont believe that to be true at all. There have been many pro-palestinian marches, and the only people who have spun them as pro hamas are willie frazer and his ilk. If you're going to try to amend your behaviour to avoid offending those particular sensibilities, you'll have a lot of amending to do

[whitey]

I don't disagree with any of that. But like it or not, this *will* be seen or spun as pro Hamas by some people. Especially as the protest is not 'framed' or put in context by any official means.

I dont believe that to be true at all. There have been many pro-palestinian marches, and the only people who have spun them as pro hamas are willie frazer and his ilk. If you're going to try to amend your behaviour to avoid offending those particular sensibilities, you'll have a lot of amending to do

Haranguerer.....Hamas and Hezbollah flags have been evident at rallies within the past week in Ireland. I put links up to the actual pictures on the other thread if you want to see them for yourself