Anastasia Kriegel

[Rudi]

Has there been any follow up on the accepted evidence that "Ana was savagely bullied inside and outside school"?

https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-mother-concern-4648659-Jun2019/

I read something similar to that account of her bullying in the excellent  IT article by Conor Gallagher.  Ana had been the subject of persistent cruel bullying by older children. The secondary school management were informed of this before she started first year, however this action had zero affect, the bullying continue unabated and even worsened. According to the statement of boy B, that's why she became their easy and predictable target. That she was to blame for attracting the bullying  eg by the way she dressed, and that she was a high profile  target of bullying made her stand out as the perfect victim for these  evil-intentioned  boys who took the bullying to another violent level.  What procedures did the school management follow, if any? There is no question about duty of care, school management are mandated to follow effective procedures when directly informed of bullying behavior, not to mention alarm bell incidents of self harm.
And it's not as if this neighborhood has rampant crime and generational meth-amphetamine drug addiction.

Much of the recent discussion has focused on the reasons why 2 boys would enact such extreme violence but very little about the culture of bullying by teenagers and the evident incompetence and even cowardice of secondary school teaching establishment in facing up to the culture of bullying.  This aspect of social, ethical and moral education is much more important than academic exam orientated trivia.

Very true, very well put.

[nrico2006]

That is horrific, that poor girl, modern society with social media and what is available on the internet has really messed up a generation.  Shocking how these two have the right to anonymity.

Kinda agree, but should their families inner and wider be held responsible for the backlash? Obviously the names are very much out there now anyway but should they move etc....they don't really deserve that stigma. Maybe B's Da as he seems like a right bollox but you get the point.

They probably should be named at 18, I don't like the idea that these lads will be out mid twenties and free to date/marry with relative anonymity. Something just not right about that for me.

Reading about the English backpacker Grace Millane who was murdered in New Zealand.  Strange that the 27 year old on trial for her murder cannot be named for legal reasons.

[Dire Ear]

Anyone know if the school has said much about the bullying?

[Main Street]

Has there been any follow up on the accepted evidence that "Ana was savagely bullied inside and outside school"?

https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-mother-concern-4648659-Jun2019/

I read something similar to that account of her bullying in the excellent  IT article by Conor Gallagher.  Ana had been the subject of persistent cruel bullying by older children. The secondary school management were informed of this before she started first year, however this action had zero affect, the bullying continue unabated and even worsened. According to the statement of boy B, that's why she became their easy and predictable target. That she was to blame for attracting the bullying  eg by the way she dressed, and that she was a high profile  target of bullying made her stand out as the perfect victim for these  evil-intentioned  boys who took the bullying to another violent level.  What procedures did the school management follow, if any? There is no question about duty of care, school management are mandated to follow effective procedures when directly informed of bullying behavior, not to mention alarm bell incidents of self harm.
And it's not as if this neighborhood has rampant crime and generational meth-amphetamine drug addiction.

Much of the recent discussion has focused on the reasons why 2 boys would enact such extreme violence but very little about the culture of bullying by teenagers and the evident incompetence and even cowardice of secondary school teaching establishment in facing up to the culture of bullying.  This aspect of social, ethical and moral education is much more important than academic exam orientated trivia.

Very true, very well put.

Thankfully Joe on Liveline is presently focussed on  and discussing the bullying aspect of this whole tragedy in the secondary school and listeners' experience of the management of the bullying.

[Eamonnca1]

Some crimes are so heinous that the perps should never get out. I think in England they made the right call with Myra Hindley and and Ian Brady, letting them rot in prison until death. That was a far more fitting punishment than the quick release of hanging. I think they got it wrong with the killers of wee James Bulger, even though they were only 10 at the time. They should never have gotten out.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but life without parole should be an option for the truly evil cases.

[Main Street]

Some crimes are so heinous that the perps should never get out. I think in England they made the right call with Myra Hindley and and Ian Brady, letting them rot in prison until death. That was a far more fitting punishment than the quick release of hanging. I think they got it wrong with the killers of wee James Bulger, even though they were only 10 at the time. They should never have gotten out.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but life without parole should be an option for the truly evil cases.

How do think a school administration should respond to direct allegations of bullying? In this case the school did not respond, or were so pathetic in their response as to make no difference. The  compulsary protocol is there on how every school should respond to allegations of bullying. The evidence is that those schools who do respond immediately and effectively, manage to  cut it off at the pass, take the bully to task, empowering the one who was bullied. And there are those schools who do nothing, the bullying is officially enabled and the torure continues unchecked and unabated. Then after someone is killed, you have people who come online after the horse has bolted and talk about the death penalty deterrent.

[Eamonnca1]

Of course schools should do more about bullying and take it seriously. I know all about bullying, I was a victim of it myself for years. I went to a junior high school where they had a near-as-dammit zero tolerance policy on it. It was a violent place, but at least I knew I had some recourse for when something went wrong because I could trust the teachers to do something about it.

I then went to a senior high school (run by the Sisters of Mercy) where the nuns drew no distinction between the bullies and their victims. I reported my bullying to the nuns and their response was to give me a bollocking for being part of a group that engages in vandalism and violence, and held my books hostage until I coughed up the cost of fixing my locker that someone had damaged.

So yes, I think schools should be more like my junior high was and less like the senior high.

My comment was about appropriate sentencing once a crime has been committed. I think it's okay to discuss it in relation to a case like this.

[gallsman]

Then after someone is killed, you have people who come online after the horse has bolted and talk about the death penalty deterrent.

Pretty weird take here.

[seafoid]

Has there been any follow up on the accepted evidence that "Ana was savagely bullied inside and outside school"?

https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-mother-concern-4648659-Jun2019/

I read something similar to that account of her bullying in the excellent  IT article by Conor Gallagher.  Ana had been the subject of persistent cruel bullying by older children. The secondary school management were informed of this before she started first year, however this action had zero affect, the bullying continue unabated and even worsened. According to the statement of boy B, that's why she became their easy and predictable target. That she was to blame for attracting the bullying  eg by the way she dressed, and that she was a high profile  target of bullying made her stand out as the perfect victim for these  evil-intentioned  boys who took the bullying to another violent level.  What procedures did the school management follow, if any? There is no question about duty of care, school management are mandated to follow effective procedures when directly informed of bullying behavior, not to mention alarm bell incidents of self harm.
And it's not as if this neighborhood has rampant crime and generational meth-amphetamine drug addiction.

Much of the recent discussion has focused on the reasons why 2 boys would enact such extreme violence but very little about the culture of bullying by teenagers and the evident incompetence and even cowardice of secondary school teaching establishment in facing up to the culture of bullying.  This aspect of social, ethical and moral education is much more important than academic exam orientated trivia.

The motive for the murder wasn't discovered during the court case. The worry is that the crime will be repeated. Social media and mobiles have broadened the scope and impact of chronic bullying . Extreme porn had some sort of a role in the development of Boy A's mental processes. There were a lot of disturbing aspects that should be researched. One year in Oberstown for the 2 costs €700 k. There is a lot at stake.

[Eamonnca1]

Then after someone is killed, you have people who come online after the horse has bolted and talk about the death penalty deterrent.

Pretty weird take here.

Isn't it? Posting online after the fact is a strange way to complain about people posting online after the fact.

[Ambrose]

One year in Oberstown for the 2 costs €700 k. There is a lot at stake.

I know everything in Ireland costs x times more than normal, we are after all building the worlds most expensive hospital, albeit in the wrong place. But how in the name of Jaysus can it cost €700,000 to imprison two teenagers per year. I'm all for rehabilitation and re-education or whatever, but for 350 grand a year each I'd expect to be golfing at Mar-a-lago, with steak and lobster every night and a go on the First Lady at least once a week.

Madness Ted.

[armaghniac]

One year in Oberstown for the 2 costs €700 k. There is a lot at stake.

I know everything in Ireland costs x times more than normal, we are after all building the worlds most expensive hospital, albeit in the wrong place. But how in the name of Jaysus can it cost €700,000 to imprison two teenagers per year. I'm all for rehabilitation and re-education or whatever, but for 350 grand a year each I'd expect to be golfing at Mar-a-lago, with steak and lobster every night and a go on the First Lady at least once a week.

Madness Ted.

Well you'd need 5 staff just to provide a guard 24/7/365. People of that age group are required to attend school so you'd have to have teachers as well. Then, of course, there are other cooks and the like needed.

[Capt Pat]

If you just put them up in a thousand euro a night hotel they would never leave and you wouldn't need a guard.