Power struggle within Croke Park?

Started by Jinxy, July 02, 2018, 10:24:09 AM

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Jinxy

I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

munchkin

Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
the CCCC is appointed by Horan so I presume if they have a problem he could un-appoint them.

Jinxy

Nothing is ever that simple in GAA land.
I still think if Fergal McGill didn't throw a bucket of petrol on the fire on the Monday, this would have been resolved with far less fuss.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

yellowcard

John Horan say's all of the right things and i think he is well intentioned.

Tom Ryan, we don't know very much about. For a front man he does not appear to be a communicator as he rarely talks publicly (at least to date anyway). Although if we believe Cian O'Neill then he did help to remedy the Newbridge farce behind the scenes. There are too many adminsitrators at provincial council level wielding too much power and the structures at this level need to be broken down. However turkeys don't vote for Christmas so it is very unlikely to happen. 

Syferus

#19
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
Wrong on the 2nd one anyway Syfīn.
His role was the outburst after the Leitrim game which seemed to get got some backs up.
I won't name names but a lot of work was done.
The backlash was McGoverns piece in the match programme and his comments at the Cup presentation.

McStay's intervention put incredible pressure on John Prenty and hence him getting Brian to release that non-statement the following Thursday. The fact he was feeling enough heat to do that tells you McStay played a pivotal role in directing public anger. If there was just quiet apathy a venue change would have been much more likely. The noise was necessary.

Crete Boom

Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 10:47:28 AM
I've always felt it was too easy to blame the 'money men' in Croke Park for all of the association's problems.
That gives a free pass to the fellas who hold the real power in provincial councils and national committees etc.

County Boards not having the help or expertise to run things in just an efficient way in financial terms has alot to do with the problems too as opposed to some big money bogey man residing in Croke Park. There is a reason that the Kildare management and players led the campaign last week as probably the Kildare county board new they would be going to HQ with their hand out looking for money or grants so their stratgey (as would be with most Co Boards) we need the money at the end of the year so more tickets in Croke Park will benifit us!!
Sorting out the overspends in Co Boards and provincial councils along with the fixtures mess is what the GAA needs to do in the next couple of years. It is no surpise that the shortsighted decisions of the CCCC are led by the same men who sould have come through these boards where the culture of get enough money to plug this or that short term financial hole exists almost everywhere!!!
The GAA should have a national stuctural capital development plan in terms of facilities and coaching and County Boards should be helped and reorganised to run day to day operations like reining in expenses (where possible) of their county teams!!
County boards just don't have the expertises at the moment to run an efficient operation despite how many well meaning and hard working people put in countless hours to keep their counties going.

Rossfan

Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
The CF was a Connacht Council fixture.
One of the softeners to the Bekan maestro was the statement by our Secretary that RCB accepts the fixing of the venue for the CF is a matter for the Connacht Council.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

BennyHarp

Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 10:59:40 AM
The exact quote from Horan this morning.

"I'm sorry that such a situation developed between a council and a county board, but I'm glad that we were able to find a resolution, we've learnt something from it. Kildare will be able to play Super 8 games in Newbridge."

Is this the official name for this now then?
That was never a square ball!!

Jinxy

This is Ireland, there's the official name for something and then there's the name people actually use.
It's one of our proudest traditions.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Captain Obvious

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 02, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
Where was he all last week when it was kicking off?
Looking at his big red head today i'd say out in the sun without any sun cream.

easytiger95

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

trailer

Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Great post.

Jinxy

Not really.
We've had the Slattery report which has resulted in reduced capacity in grounds like St. Conleth's.
With the capacity reduced, it is safe to hold games
If you were any use you'd be playing.

easytiger95

Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 03:19:19 PM
Not really.
We've had the Slattery report which has resulted in reduced capacity in grounds like St. Conleth's.
With the capacity reduced, it is safe to hold games

Absolutely, as was proved on Saturday evening. My point is that this was first and foremost a communications failure (for which Kildare County Board must take some responsibility as well as the CCCC), that such a mistake should not lead to people's reputations being traduced (which has certainly happened) and lastly, I would far rather have someone on the CCCC make such a mistake ten times, than countenance the one time where they let it go and rely on the famed docility of GAA fans, only for someone to be seriously injured or worse.

Making that mistake does not automatically mean you are out of touch with the grassroots. I think the pitchfork and torches element to this is completely overdone (not by yourself BTW Jinxy) and I think it is a proxy fight for other issues such as the Sky deal. Of which there was an awful amount of buffoonish stuff said earlier on in the week.

There was enough inaccuracy and misinformation to go round on both sides during the last week.


easytiger95

Also Jinxy, just with regard to Slattery, one of the critical parts of the risk analysis here would have been not only capacity, but how many were expected to turn up. Whilst it was completely out of order for Ned Quinn to suggest Football Factory scenes would ensue if people didn't get tickets, it is completely valid to have a concern that a certain amount of people will travel without them and factor that in to any safety plan.