Money, Dublin and the GAA

[manfromdelmonte]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

Counties receive dev funding from central and provincial councils. Ewans numbers only cover central council funding they ignore provincial council funding. 60% ( or approx 5m) of games dev funding is distributed via the provincial councils each year. Surely you cannot come to conclusions on funding based on only 40% of the data. If you apply for a mortgage you need to show the bank manager all of your accounts not just the one that makes your case look good.

Ewan uses this method as it suits his agenda because there is one key difference between Dublin and other counties. Dubs receive the bulk of their funding from central council, where as the opposite is true for the other counties, they all receive the majority of their funding from their provincial council. Therefore by just using central council funding the numbers are skewed misleadingly against Dublin.

The other thing he does to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

The Dubs get a higher amount than every other county from the Leinster GAA as well.
Look it up.

[Orchard park]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

Counties receive dev funding from central and provincial councils. Ewans numbers only cover central council funding they ignore provincial council funding. 60% ( or approx 5m) of games dev funding is distributed via the provincial councils each year. Surely you cannot come to conclusions on funding based on only 40% of the data. If you apply for a mortgage you need to show the bank manager all of your accounts not just the one that makes your case look good.

Ewan uses this method as it suits his agenda because there is one key difference between Dublin and other counties. Dubs receive the bulk of their funding from central council, where as the opposite is true for the other counties, they all receive the majority of their funding from their provincial council. Therefore by just using central council funding the numbers are skewed misleadingly against Dublin.

The other thing he does to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

The Dubs get a higher amount than every other county from the Leinster GAA as well.
Look it up.

Higher overall or per registrred member  ??

[Franko]

By the way, I'm not saying Dublin don't have many advantages, we clearly do, but people go after the nonsense.

Population is the key one. More players to choose from. Particularly immigration from Ireland. Most country people will join their local GAA club when they have kids, thus increasing membership revenue, increasing the need for facilities and increasing the ability to raise the 50% required by the club.

Club football standard is very high and you could argue more important than population, but one leads to the other perhaps. They train far harder than our country cousins because everyone is living in the locality. And money from members is paying good managers to help them. My club has won sweet FA but they are senior and they train 4 times a week (or 3 plus game).

Croke Park.

Everyone on the county panel living in a 30 mile or so radius so don't have to waste time and energy travelling to and from training.

Sponsorship.

Not the mention the current manager, keeper, freetaker, etc.....

This is nonsense.  It's a club team.  Most club players live in the locality.

[Dinny Breen]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

Counties receive dev funding from central and provincial councils. Ewans numbers only cover central council funding they ignore provincial council funding. 60% ( or approx 5m) of games dev funding is distributed via the provincial councils each year. Surely you cannot come to conclusions on funding based on only 40% of the data. If you apply for a mortgage you need to show the bank manager all of your accounts not just the one that makes your case look good.

Ewan uses this method as it suits his agenda because there is one key difference between Dublin and other counties. Dubs receive the bulk of their funding from central council, where as the opposite is true for the other counties, they all receive the majority of their funding from their provincial council. Therefore by just using central council funding the numbers are skewed misleadingly against Dublin.

The other thing he does to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

Show us the money, not anecdotal evidence. Show us the accounts and break it down you are are the one attempting a debunk, we have all seen the figures from Central Council so show us the Leinster Council Break down over the last 14 years. While you are at it, also show us where any county outside capital projects got direct governement funding for games development!

Also over the last 14 years why don't you breakdown sponsorship deals and revenues generated by Dublin and how that revenue was put into establishing new clubs, the purchase of new green field sites and the exponential growth of Gaelic Games in the city?

We keep hearing the money was well spent but the millions given is Dublin GAA any healthier than it was in 2004? One thing we can say is that in the rest of the province the it is certainly not.

[Orchard park]

The Dublin county board and several o their larger clubs stand indicted ovrr the failure to establish new clubs to cater for the expading population obervthe lsdt 20 years.

Lucian, and ballyboden obvious areas crying out for new clubs

[munchkin]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

<snip>
The other thing he and others do to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

worse, he does not use registered players, he uses registered members as per membership fees paid, which from looking at my home club - in the likes of a country county like Longford membership is about 30% active players and the rest auld lads long past their playing days supporting their club by paying full fees, and a distant hope of a chance of a ticket should the county ever do anything useful!
If you dont believe me, take these figures here in an article slating Dublins overfunding, which have senior "players" in Longford at 4400 players.

So is that 4400 figure even possible ? The CSO tells us that there's only 2200 males between 20 and 30 years old in the county. A long way from 4400 players.
In Longford there was 32 adult teams registered for insurance last year. Presuming a VERY healthy average panel of 30 players per team (and fat chance its that high),  that'd be a max of 960 players - again WAY lower than the 4400 adult players stated by balls.ie

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120 and the CSO figures from here : https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=CD108&PLanguage=0 and the number of registered teams in each county here : http://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/dpngzz6dhxfr7i6nl6o1.pdf

Nevertheless, aside from the adult figures just being chronically wrong using members rather than players but calling it players, a per capita figure for development funding which is provided to coach kids should be divided by number of kids coached, not number of adult players (and definitely not a hotch potch number of players including heaps of loyal auld lads paying fees) .

Dublin dont need the levels of development funding any more as it's obvious that they can fund it themselves through way more sponsorship than anyone else, but arguing they are paid too much per capita should at least use the correct numbers and I havent seen an article yet with figures that make sense.

[seafoid]

How many development officers does Dublin have? The GAA pays half of their salaries, apparently
How does the talent identification system work ?

Apparently the GAA was surprised at the poor attendance levels at the 2 semi finals this year . Even if they aren't too pushed aout Dublin winning everything this may be an entry point for some logic. 

[seafoid]

From the Dublin point of view the Blue Wave document from 2011 gives an
overview of the plan.


http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/the-blue-wave.pdf

Is there anything similar from the GAA?

[Dinny Breen]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/capital-gain-from-coaching-fund-faces-review-34419282.html

An article from Colm Keyes in 2016 - he's probably just a bitter Meath man.

Games development funding paid to Dublin directly from central revenues since a special deal with the Irish Sports Council in 2005 has passed the €16million mark.

Accounts published by the GAA yesterday showed that the funding for games development in the capital remained at €1.46m, the same figure as 2014.

The scale of the money allows Dublin to fund a large coaching operation across the capital that has clearly helped to build the successes at all levels in recent years.

The concept of the deal was to create a greater footprint for Gaelic games in the country's largest centre of population. The thinking at the time was that Dublin was a special case that faced stiffer competition from other sports like rugby and soccer and therefore required a different approach.

The premise was that for the GAA to be strong, it had to be strong in the capital. The initial understanding was that some €1m would be earmarked for Dublin development, chiefly hurling, from the Sports Council's annual funding for the GAA.

To that end it has been a success and has consequently helped to provide Dublin with the tools to generate far greater commercial revenues for themselves.

While the figure is now somewhere around the €640,000 mark set aside for Dublin from Sports Council accounts, the levels of funding have not changed much over the years because of the requirement of the GAA to support the structures and personnel that have already been put in place.

The annual grants given to Dublin for the purposes of coaching and games development since the deal was put together under the presidency of Sean Kelly have ranged from €1.35m in 2005 to a peak of €1.64m in 2009.

In 2015, the GAA, at central level, distributed €9.37m for games development. Strip out what they paid under this heading to the four provinces, Britain and overseas and Dublin's amount is 47pc of what's left for direct distribution among the 32 counties.

Coaches employed by Dublin are joint-funded - to the tune of half - by those clubs. For the rest of the country coaches are employed by the provinces.

Grants from Leinster Council, which received €1.7m from central funds to redistribute to its counties, are not factored into county distribution but under the heading 'Dublin coaching project' in the provincial body's most recent of accounts there's a further €241,050 set aside specifically for Dublin from a €4.5m coaching budget.

By comparison to most other counties, even on a per capita basis, Dublin appear to be funded much more generously.

Cork, the next most populated county (519,000 compared to Dublin's 1.271m documented in the 2011 Census) received €74,000 for games development from central funds in 2015.

Even if their Munster Council coaching grants were greater than what Leinster provide for Dublin it couldn't come close to a what is a 20-fold central funding difference for a county with just two-and-a-half times the population. Kildare is one of the fastest areas of population growth (with Fingal and Meath) but for a 210,000 population they receive just €42,600 from central funds for games development. Again no relative shortfall, based on per capita figures, could be made up by provincial figures.

Wexford and Meath can put forward the same argument based on their populations indexed to central funding, so too can Mayo, Galway and even Kerry on the western seaboard.

What Dublin gain handsomely on coaching grants they lost on commercial grants from the media and sponsorship deals. Each county gets €175,000, irrespective of profile or seasonal longevity, and given the drawing power of Dublin for sponsors and broadcasters that leaves them short.

And there's no doubt that a strong Dublin, drawing big crowds, reaps benefits for every county. But those counties have to be asking if the current model, remains sustainable in the face of such an apparent imbalance.

It's an issue for the GAA that has been lurking for some time but has been difficult to resolve as they seek to 're-balance' financial distribution. If Sports Council money is re-directed elsewhere, away from its original target, does that change the terms of reference of the original deal?

When asked about Dublin's €1.46m compared to Leitrim's €39,000, GAA's director of finance Tom Ryan said provincial coaching grants created a "slight anomaly".

"An amount of the coaching revenue is diverted via the provinces so a specific amount that is going to Connacht, and is reported as Connacht in these numbers, is for the benefit of and spent in Leitrim as well directly so we're not quite comparing like with like."

The GAA have been intent on change but it has been hard to implement. "If it was easy to resolve in 12 months I suppose you might have seen a change,"he said.

Complicated

"It's quite complicated, you have to look at the relative cost bases in the different counties, you've got to look at the scale of the different counties and you've got to look at the level in which they are fielding teams in both codes."

The GAA have set up a small group under the auspices of its national financial committee to examine more equitable ways to fund counties but cutting some to pay for others is not on the agenda, says Ryan.

"It's not a question of trying to take resources away from particular counties, the job really should be to provide extra for all of the other counties. It's going to be a job of work that will probably take up to three years in terms of re-balancing competition dividends and things like that, but you will see some changes emerging from that group over the course of the next 18 months to three years," he added.

This year's figures for games development show a spike for hurling counties considered to be second tier. Laois, Offaly, Carlow and Westmeath are among those all featuring higher in 2015 as a result of a special scheme devised some years ago.

The acceptance about the need for the GAA to tackle the capital and win market share over a decade ago, helped by considerable state funding, has been replaced by growing sense that there should be quicker remedial action.

We have rehashed this over and over again, no amount of re-framing or fake news will change the the basic premise that Dublin GAA get the funding of a province while only fielding 1 inter-county football team and 2 inter-county hurling teams, not sure if Fingal are still playing. Approx 100 clubs in Dublin. Open to correction on clubs.

Leinster Council covers 11 inter-county football and 11 inter-county hurling teams and over 500 clubs.

It's not rocket science, no matter what the metric, club members, registered player, per captia, number of clubs etc. Dublin are ridiculously over-funded. It's a blatant inequality that has at least an indirect, I believe a direct, influence on Dublin winning 6 of the last 8 Senior football All-Irelands and 4 of the last 8 u21 All-Irelands.

[mup]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/capital-gain-from-coaching-fund-faces-review-34419282.html

An article from Colm Keyes in 2016 - he's probably just a bitter Meath man.

Games development funding paid to Dublin directly from central revenues since a special deal with the Irish Sports Council in 2005 has passed the €16million mark.

Accounts published by the GAA yesterday showed that the funding for games development in the capital remained at €1.46m, the same figure as 2014.

The scale of the money allows Dublin to fund a large coaching operation across the capital that has clearly helped to build the successes at all levels in recent years.

The concept of the deal was to create a greater footprint for Gaelic games in the country's largest centre of population. The thinking at the time was that Dublin was a special case that faced stiffer competition from other sports like rugby and soccer and therefore required a different approach.

The premise was that for the GAA to be strong, it had to be strong in the capital. The initial understanding was that some €1m would be earmarked for Dublin development, chiefly hurling, from the Sports Council's annual funding for the GAA.

To that end it has been a success and has consequently helped to provide Dublin with the tools to generate far greater commercial revenues for themselves.

While the figure is now somewhere around the €640,000 mark set aside for Dublin from Sports Council accounts, the levels of funding have not changed much over the years because of the requirement of the GAA to support the structures and personnel that have already been put in place.

The annual grants given to Dublin for the purposes of coaching and games development since the deal was put together under the presidency of Sean Kelly have ranged from €1.35m in 2005 to a peak of €1.64m in 2009.

In 2015, the GAA, at central level, distributed €9.37m for games development. Strip out what they paid under this heading to the four provinces, Britain and overseas and Dublin's amount is 47pc of what's left for direct distribution among the 32 counties.

Coaches employed by Dublin are joint-funded - to the tune of half - by those clubs. For the rest of the country coaches are employed by the provinces.

Grants from Leinster Council, which received €1.7m from central funds to redistribute to its counties, are not factored into county distribution but under the heading 'Dublin coaching project' in the provincial body's most recent of accounts there's a further €241,050 set aside specifically for Dublin from a €4.5m coaching budget.

By comparison to most other counties, even on a per capita basis, Dublin appear to be funded much more generously.

Cork, the next most populated county (519,000 compared to Dublin's 1.271m documented in the 2011 Census) received €74,000 for games development from central funds in 2015.

Even if their Munster Council coaching grants were greater than what Leinster provide for Dublin it couldn't come close to a what is a 20-fold central funding difference for a county with just two-and-a-half times the population. Kildare is one of the fastest areas of population growth (with Fingal and Meath) but for a 210,000 population they receive just €42,600 from central funds for games development. Again no relative shortfall, based on per capita figures, could be made up by provincial figures.

Wexford and Meath can put forward the same argument based on their populations indexed to central funding, so too can Mayo, Galway and even Kerry on the western seaboard.

What Dublin gain handsomely on coaching grants they lost on commercial grants from the media and sponsorship deals. Each county gets €175,000, irrespective of profile or seasonal longevity, and given the drawing power of Dublin for sponsors and broadcasters that leaves them short.

And there's no doubt that a strong Dublin, drawing big crowds, reaps benefits for every county. But those counties have to be asking if the current model, remains sustainable in the face of such an apparent imbalance.

It's an issue for the GAA that has been lurking for some time but has been difficult to resolve as they seek to 're-balance' financial distribution. If Sports Council money is re-directed elsewhere, away from its original target, does that change the terms of reference of the original deal?

When asked about Dublin's €1.46m compared to Leitrim's €39,000, GAA's director of finance Tom Ryan said provincial coaching grants created a "slight anomaly".

"An amount of the coaching revenue is diverted via the provinces so a specific amount that is going to Connacht, and is reported as Connacht in these numbers, is for the benefit of and spent in Leitrim as well directly so we're not quite comparing like with like."

The GAA have been intent on change but it has been hard to implement. "If it was easy to resolve in 12 months I suppose you might have seen a change,"he said.

Complicated

"It's quite complicated, you have to look at the relative cost bases in the different counties, you've got to look at the scale of the different counties and you've got to look at the level in which they are fielding teams in both codes."

The GAA have set up a small group under the auspices of its national financial committee to examine more equitable ways to fund counties but cutting some to pay for others is not on the agenda, says Ryan.

"It's not a question of trying to take resources away from particular counties, the job really should be to provide extra for all of the other counties. It's going to be a job of work that will probably take up to three years in terms of re-balancing competition dividends and things like that, but you will see some changes emerging from that group over the course of the next 18 months to three years," he added.

This year's figures for games development show a spike for hurling counties considered to be second tier. Laois, Offaly, Carlow and Westmeath are among those all featuring higher in 2015 as a result of a special scheme devised some years ago.

The acceptance about the need for the GAA to tackle the capital and win market share over a decade ago, helped by considerable state funding, has been replaced by growing sense that there should be quicker remedial action.

We have rehashed this over and over again, no amount of re-framing or fake news will change the the basic premise that Dublin GAA get the funding of a province while only fielding 1 inter-county football team and 2 inter-county hurling teams, not sure if Fingal are still playing. Approx 100 clubs in Dublin. Open to correction on clubs.

Leinster Council covers 11 inter-county football and 11 inter-county hurling teams and over 500 clubs.

It's not rocket science, no matter what the metric, club members, registered player, per captia, number of clubs etc. Dublin are ridiculously over-funded. It's a blatant inequality that has at least an indirect, I believe a direct, influence on Dublin winning 6 of the last 8 Senior football All-Irelands and 4 of the last 8 u21 All-Irelands.

But but but this is a once in a generation team that will eventually come to a natural end.

And sure if Kildare had invested in their underage structures instead of paying Micko and Kieran McGeeney hundreds of thousands wouldn't they be in better shape?

[Dinny Breen]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/capital-gain-from-coaching-fund-faces-review-34419282.html

An article from Colm Keyes in 2016 - he's probably just a bitter Meath man.

Games development funding paid to Dublin directly from central revenues since a special deal with the Irish Sports Council in 2005 has passed the €16million mark.

Accounts published by the GAA yesterday showed that the funding for games development in the capital remained at €1.46m, the same figure as 2014.

The scale of the money allows Dublin to fund a large coaching operation across the capital that has clearly helped to build the successes at all levels in recent years.

The concept of the deal was to create a greater footprint for Gaelic games in the country's largest centre of population. The thinking at the time was that Dublin was a special case that faced stiffer competition from other sports like rugby and soccer and therefore required a different approach.

The premise was that for the GAA to be strong, it had to be strong in the capital. The initial understanding was that some €1m would be earmarked for Dublin development, chiefly hurling, from the Sports Council's annual funding for the GAA.

To that end it has been a success and has consequently helped to provide Dublin with the tools to generate far greater commercial revenues for themselves.

While the figure is now somewhere around the €640,000 mark set aside for Dublin from Sports Council accounts, the levels of funding have not changed much over the years because of the requirement of the GAA to support the structures and personnel that have already been put in place.

The annual grants given to Dublin for the purposes of coaching and games development since the deal was put together under the presidency of Sean Kelly have ranged from €1.35m in 2005 to a peak of €1.64m in 2009.

In 2015, the GAA, at central level, distributed €9.37m for games development. Strip out what they paid under this heading to the four provinces, Britain and overseas and Dublin's amount is 47pc of what's left for direct distribution among the 32 counties.

Coaches employed by Dublin are joint-funded - to the tune of half - by those clubs. For the rest of the country coaches are employed by the provinces.

Grants from Leinster Council, which received €1.7m from central funds to redistribute to its counties, are not factored into county distribution but under the heading 'Dublin coaching project' in the provincial body's most recent of accounts there's a further €241,050 set aside specifically for Dublin from a €4.5m coaching budget.

By comparison to most other counties, even on a per capita basis, Dublin appear to be funded much more generously.

Cork, the next most populated county (519,000 compared to Dublin's 1.271m documented in the 2011 Census) received €74,000 for games development from central funds in 2015.

Even if their Munster Council coaching grants were greater than what Leinster provide for Dublin it couldn't come close to a what is a 20-fold central funding difference for a county with just two-and-a-half times the population. Kildare is one of the fastest areas of population growth (with Fingal and Meath) but for a 210,000 population they receive just €42,600 from central funds for games development. Again no relative shortfall, based on per capita figures, could be made up by provincial figures.

Wexford and Meath can put forward the same argument based on their populations indexed to central funding, so too can Mayo, Galway and even Kerry on the western seaboard.

What Dublin gain handsomely on coaching grants they lost on commercial grants from the media and sponsorship deals. Each county gets €175,000, irrespective of profile or seasonal longevity, and given the drawing power of Dublin for sponsors and broadcasters that leaves them short.

And there's no doubt that a strong Dublin, drawing big crowds, reaps benefits for every county. But those counties have to be asking if the current model, remains sustainable in the face of such an apparent imbalance.

It's an issue for the GAA that has been lurking for some time but has been difficult to resolve as they seek to 're-balance' financial distribution. If Sports Council money is re-directed elsewhere, away from its original target, does that change the terms of reference of the original deal?

When asked about Dublin's €1.46m compared to Leitrim's €39,000, GAA's director of finance Tom Ryan said provincial coaching grants created a "slight anomaly".

"An amount of the coaching revenue is diverted via the provinces so a specific amount that is going to Connacht, and is reported as Connacht in these numbers, is for the benefit of and spent in Leitrim as well directly so we're not quite comparing like with like."

The GAA have been intent on change but it has been hard to implement. "If it was easy to resolve in 12 months I suppose you might have seen a change,"he said.

Complicated

"It's quite complicated, you have to look at the relative cost bases in the different counties, you've got to look at the scale of the different counties and you've got to look at the level in which they are fielding teams in both codes."

The GAA have set up a small group under the auspices of its national financial committee to examine more equitable ways to fund counties but cutting some to pay for others is not on the agenda, says Ryan.

"It's not a question of trying to take resources away from particular counties, the job really should be to provide extra for all of the other counties. It's going to be a job of work that will probably take up to three years in terms of re-balancing competition dividends and things like that, but you will see some changes emerging from that group over the course of the next 18 months to three years," he added.

This year's figures for games development show a spike for hurling counties considered to be second tier. Laois, Offaly, Carlow and Westmeath are among those all featuring higher in 2015 as a result of a special scheme devised some years ago.

The acceptance about the need for the GAA to tackle the capital and win market share over a decade ago, helped by considerable state funding, has been replaced by growing sense that there should be quicker remedial action.

We have rehashed this over and over again, no amount of re-framing or fake news will change the the basic premise that Dublin GAA get the funding of a province while only fielding 1 inter-county football team and 2 inter-county hurling teams, not sure if Fingal are still playing. Approx 100 clubs in Dublin. Open to correction on clubs.

Leinster Council covers 11 inter-county football and 11 inter-county hurling teams and over 500 clubs.

It's not rocket science, no matter what the metric, club members, registered player, per captia, number of clubs etc. Dublin are ridiculously over-funded. It's a blatant inequality that has at least an indirect, I believe a direct, influence on Dublin winning 6 of the last 8 Senior football All-Irelands and 4 of the last 8 u21 All-Irelands.

But but but this is a once in a generation team that will eventually come to a natural end.

And sure if Kildare had invested in their underage structures instead of paying Micko and Kieran McGeeney hundreds of thousands wouldn't they be in better shape?

Don't forget they work harder and want it more than those poor feckers from the North West, West and South West who sit in their cars 4-5 hours twice a week just to go training. I heard a Dublin footballer once had to travel from the Southside to Northside in rush hour traffic, now that's commitment, he really wanted that All-Ireland.

[Falcao]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

Counties receive dev funding from central and provincial councils. Ewans numbers only cover central council funding they ignore provincial council funding. 60% ( or approx 5m) of games dev funding is distributed via the provincial councils each year. Surely you cannot come to conclusions on funding based on only 40% of the data. If you apply for a mortgage you need to show the bank manager all of your accounts not just the one that makes your case look good.

Ewan uses this method as it suits his agenda because there is one key difference between Dublin and other counties. Dubs receive the bulk of their funding from central council, where as the opposite is true for the other counties, they all receive the majority of their funding from their provincial council. Therefore by just using central council funding the numbers are skewed misleadingly against Dublin.

The other thing he does to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

Show us the money, not anecdotal evidence. Show us the accounts and break it down you are are the one attempting a debunk, we have all seen the figures from Central Council so show us the Leinster Council Break down over the last 14 years. While you are at it, also show us where any county outside capital projects got direct governement funding for games development!

The figures from Leinster broken down by county are not available. As Ewan doesn't include these numbers, I don't need these numbers to debunk his. In his article he states that Dublin were given 16m in GD funding and Tyrone were given 560k. He doesn't state that this is Central council only or Provincial Council only, therefore he is saying these are the amounts of total GD funding received. I have already proved that this is incorrect so the numbers in his article have been proven to be false as it is a fact that all counties also receive GD funds from their provincial council.

How ridiculous is it to analyse one stream of the funding, come to final figures, not even disclose that these figures do not cover all funding distributed and state that this proves Dublin are financially doped.

I have seen figures from the Leinster Council for 2015 & 2016 where they have some details on games development funding. In these years they have 4.5m and 4.8m funding respectively. Both years have 240k assigned to Dublin Coaching Project, which is approx 5% of the total, leaving a whopping 8.8m that people seem to be presuming that the bulk of which, without any evidence whatsoever goes to Dublin.

[Falcao]

An article from Colm Keyes in 2016 - he's probably just a bitter Meath man.

In 2015, the GAA, at central level, distributed €9.37m for games development. Strip out what they paid under this heading to the four provinces, Britain and overseas and Dublin's amount is 47pc of what's left for direct distribution among the 32 counties.

Why strip out what they paid to the four provinces?

Coaches employed by Dublin are joint-funded - to the tune of half - by those clubs. For the rest of the country coaches are employed by the provinces.

Grants from Leinster Council, which received €1.7m from central funds to redistribute to its counties, are not factored into county distribution but under the heading 'Dublin coaching project' in the provincial body's most recent of accounts there's a further €241,050 set aside specifically for Dublin from a €4.5m coaching budget.

Cork, the next most populated county (519,000 compared to Dublin's 1.271m documented in the 2011 Census) received €74,000 for games development from central funds in 2015.

Even if their Munster Council coaching grants were greater than what Leinster provide for Dublin it couldn't come close to a what is a 20-fold central funding difference for a county with just two-and-a-half times the population. Kildare is one of the fastest areas of population growth (with Fingal and Meath) but for a 210,000 population they receive just €42,600 from central funds for games development. Again no relative shortfall, based on per capita figures, could be made up by provincial figures.

Basic maths will tell you that the shortfall, based on per capita, could easily be made up by the provincial figures. Dublins known total of 1.7m (1.46 plus the 240k) works out at 1.3 euro per capita (pop. 1.34m).
For Kildare to get 1.3 euro per capita (pop. 222k) they would need total funding of approx 290k. So they would need to be getting an additional 250k from the Leinster total of 4.5m. That is only about 6% of the Leinster total. I don't think it is a stretch to believe that they are getting at least 6% of that total if not more.

When asked about Dublin's €1.46m compared to Leitrim's €39,000, GAA's director of finance Tom Ryan said provincial coaching grants created a "slight anomaly".
"An amount of the coaching revenue is diverted via the provinces so a specific amount that is going to Connacht, and is reported as Connacht in these numbers, is for the benefit of and spent in Leitrim as well directly so we're not quite comparing like with like."

Exactly, this is the point that people conveniently ignore.

We have rehashed this over and over again, no amount of re-framing or fake news will change the the basic premise that Dublin GAA get the funding of a province while only fielding 1 inter-county football team and 2 inter-county hurling teams, not sure if Fingal are still playing. Approx 100 clubs in Dublin. Open to correction on clubs.

It's not rocket science, no matter what the metric, club members, registered player, per captia, number of clubs etc. Dublin are ridiculously over-funded.

Yes Dublin have been getting GD funding of a province because they have a population matching that of the other provinces. They have not been fielding multiple teams because they do not have the playing population matching that of a province. The main objective of the funding is to get more of the population in Dublin playing the game, if it has the desired effect and playing numbers grow down the line they will need to be split up and field 2 teams but the playing numbers in Dublin currently don't justify that.

It's a blatant inequality that has at least an indirect, I believe a direct, influence on Dublin winning 6 of the last 8 Senior football All-Irelands and 4 of the last 8 u21 All-Irelands.

Can you list the advantages that this Dublin team are getting from this unproven inequality to help them win the all-irelands? What have they got access to that their closest rivals - Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone don't have?

[munchkin]

so, Dublin have 2,060 club teams in total (adult+youth combined, from 2017 insurance report) and Longford have 211, but the argument is that both have 1 intercounty team so you ignore the amount of club work needed and just fund them equally ?

agh now seriously ! Even look at the amount of kids there are and the amount of coaching resources needed to cover them.

Maybe take the number of primary school kids as representative of the job of work that a county board has in training young players in schools. (Yes, some younger kids wont be trained, but as a comparison between a big county and a small county to work out ratios it is a reasonable start)
In Longford theres 5,365 kids in primary schools that the county board has to reach/ introduce the games to.
In Dublin theres 142,815 kids in primary schools that they are looking to expose to gaelic games.
That's 26 times more kids in Dublin than Longford, so to argue that both boards need equal (kids) development resources just because they have both 1 intercounty football team is a non argument.
Last year Dublin got €1.29million, Longford €120k in games development grants, 10 times more, yet they have 26 times more kids, so if you wanted to argue anything then Dublin could be said to be chronically underfunded per capita than the likes of Longford !

Compare it to Kildare instead (mentioned in the quoted article) where theres 29,748 school pupils, meaning Dublin has 4.8 times the amount of kids as Kildare. Kildare got €226k in central development grants last year, meaning that Dublin got 5.7 times the development grants that Kildare got - so in this case Dublin are over funded but not a 20 fold, 2000% difference like the article from Colm Keyes makes out.
(€40k extra for Kildare would leave them the same proportionate to the number of kids in their catchment )

CSO primary school stats : https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=EDA57&PLanguage=0

its interesting to see how you can use stats associated with the numbers of kids in each county, kids who are the actual target for all this development spending, and when you aren't a paid journalist being told to make a headline grabbing article against the Dubs (for a paper whose main sales are outside the capital), you can show that the funding for Dublin mightn't be as crazily imbalanced as some make out.

Dublin have 26times more kids than a small county like Longford, and that has to be factored in in some way or other when claiming they get too much.

[Dinny Breen]

Debunk away so, enlighten us?

Counties receive dev funding from central and provincial councils. Ewans numbers only cover central council funding they ignore provincial council funding. 60% ( or approx 5m) of games dev funding is distributed via the provincial councils each year. Surely you cannot come to conclusions on funding based on only 40% of the data. If you apply for a mortgage you need to show the bank manager all of your accounts not just the one that makes your case look good.

Ewan uses this method as it suits his agenda because there is one key difference between Dublin and other counties. Dubs receive the bulk of their funding from central council, where as the opposite is true for the other counties, they all receive the majority of their funding from their provincial council. Therefore by just using central council funding the numbers are skewed misleadingly against Dublin.

The other thing he does to get his headline grabbing numbers is divide the total funding by no. of registered gaa players in the county. Which is also completely misleading as it is common knowledge that these funds are also used to coach non registered kids in schools.

Would you agree based on the above that his numbers are incorrect and have been debunked?

Show us the money, not anecdotal evidence. Show us the accounts and break it down you are are the one attempting a debunk, we have all seen the figures from Central Council so show us the Leinster Council Break down over the last 14 years. While you are at it, also show us where any county outside capital projects got direct governement funding for games development!

The figures from Leinster broken down by county are not available. As Ewan doesn't include these numbers, I don't need these numbers to debunk his. In his article he states that Dublin were given 16m in GD funding and Tyrone were given 560k. He doesn't state that this is Central council only or Provincial Council only, therefore he is saying these are the amounts of total GD funding received. I have already proved that this is incorrect so the numbers in his article have been proven to be false as it is a fact that all counties also receive GD funds from their provincial council.

How ridiculous is it to analyse one stream of the funding, come to final figures, not even disclose that these figures do not cover all funding distributed and state that this proves Dublin are financially doped.

I have seen figures from the Leinster Council for 2015 & 2016 where they have some details on games development funding. In these years they have 4.5m and 4.8m funding respectively. Both years have 240k assigned to Dublin Coaching Project, which is approx 5% of the total, leaving a whopping 8.8m that people seem to be presuming that the bulk of which, without any evidence whatsoever goes to Dublin.

You can't debunk something with conjecture, show us the Leinster Council figures, marry them to the Central Council figures which are available and show a clear ridiculous bias to Dublin.

Even take your 9.3 million from the Leinster Council, 480K of that was ring fenced for Dublin. So 5% already is unavailable to other counties, can you provide numerical evidence that none of that remaining 95% goes towards Dublin.

What we do know is that is over the last 14 years Dublin has received in excess including CC and LC funding of 1.5m a year. If you split for arguments sake 4.5m per year evenly between 11 counties at most each county gets 400K per year. So allowing for LC games development funding Dublin are still getting 4 times funding greater than any Leinster county all things being equal. And I doubt there was over 4m a year available to Leinster counties over the last 14 years.