Listening to John Horan this morning, I got a sense he recognises which way the wind is blowing in terms of the sentiments of the broader GAA membership, and the level of disillusionment out there.
He was very firm in his stance that Conleth's will be Kildare's home venue should they make the Super 8s and he also wants to do away with Summer concerts.
GAA HQ needs to fight back against the 'Grab All Association' trope (if you ever use this term unironically, you are a moron by the way), and I think maybe the DG and Chairman see an opportunity here on a number of fronts, including the club v county issues.
If there are two sides to this potential struggle, I would guess that the DG & Chairman would be in one corner, with the high-level committee men (the lifers) in the other corner.
The CCCC have just had a bit of manners put on them, and they don't like it.
Tom Ryan did a lot of work behind the scenes to resolve this by all accounts, so is there a sense within the CCCC that the DG undermined them?
It's easy to assume that the professional staff are always the bad guys, whose only concern is maximising revenue, but maybe the bigger issue is the power that resides in the various committees and their resistance to change?
#Newbridgeornowhere was a line in the sand. The hierarchy is too distant. The fans are pissed off.
I'm hoping the GAA fans have had enough and the #newbridgeornowhere campaign will be the catalyst for further unrest.
For too long the GAA have been doing their own thing and have been giving no consideration to those outside the chosen few. We are currently seeing the results of their 'financial strategy'.
It's refreshing to hear our president come out and say what he did this morning. The polar opposite to what dinosaurs like Nicky Brennan and Sean Kelly said who basically stated that Kildare should told as they are told. I hope he backs up his words with actions.
Where was he all last week when it was kicking off?
I've always felt it was too easy to blame the 'money men' in Croke Park for all of the association's problems.
That gives a free pass to the fellas who hold the real power in provincial councils and national committees etc.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 10:47:28 AM
I've always felt it was too easy to blame the 'money men' in Croke Park for all of the association's problems.
That gives a free pass to the fellas who hold the real power in provincial councils and national committees etc.
The likes of that p***k in his palace in Bekan
Fair play to Horan this morning. Like others have stated he needs to back this up now. There'll be some craic if Kildare get to super 8s and don't get their home venue.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 02, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
Where was he all last week when it was kicking off?
If he was involved at all, it was working behind the scenes with Tom Ryan to resolve the issue.
Do you think he should have said something publicly in the middle of it all, and if so, what?
The exact quote from Horan this morning.
"I'm sorry that such a situation developed between a council and a county board, but I'm glad that we were able to find a resolution, we've learnt something from it. Kildare will be able to play Super 8 games in Newbridge."
I suspect Horan and Ryan stepped in behind the scenes and called the parties together to sort things out .
Better way of doing things than megaphone stuff.
I understand they both helped ensure the Connacht Final was held in Hyde together with a lot of diplomacy by influential Rossies.
Turning down all summer concerts out of hand would be madness. Horan should look to help fix the money gap in preparing senior IC teams and not be looking for easy soundbites to paper over that chasm.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:02:53 AM
I suspect Horan and Ryan stepped in behind the scenes and called the parties together to sort things out .
Better way of doing things than megaphone stuff.
I understand they both helped ensure the Connacht Final was held in Hyde together with a lot of diplomacy by influential Rossies.
Paddy Joe? ;)
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:02:53 AM
I suspect Horan and Ryan stepped in behind the scenes and called the parties together to sort things out .
Better way of doing things than megaphone stuff.
I understand they both helped ensure the Connacht Final was held in Hyde together with a lot of diplomacy by influential Rossies.
Paddy Joe? ;)
The one that's on the CCCC more likely. And Kevin Mc..
Quote from: Syferus on July 02, 2018, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:02:53 AM
I suspect Horan and Ryan stepped in behind the scenes and called the parties together to sort things out .
Better way of doing things than megaphone stuff.
I understand they both helped ensure the Connacht Final was held in Hyde together with a lot of diplomacy by influential Rossies.
Paddy Joe? ;)
The one that's on the CCCC more likely. And Kevin Mc..
Paddy Joe should be on the CCCC.
Wrong on the 2nd one anyway Syfīn.
His role was the outburst after the Leitrim game which seemed to get got some backs up.
I won't name names but a lot of work was done.
The backlash was McGoverns piece in the match programme and his comments at the Cup presentation.
I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
the CCCC is appointed by Horan so I presume if they have a problem he could un-appoint them.
Nothing is ever that simple in GAA land.
I still think if Fergal McGill didn't throw a bucket of petrol on the fire on the Monday, this would have been resolved with far less fuss.
John Horan say's all of the right things and i think he is well intentioned.
Tom Ryan, we don't know very much about. For a front man he does not appear to be a communicator as he rarely talks publicly (at least to date anyway). Although if we believe Cian O'Neill then he did help to remedy the Newbridge farce behind the scenes. There are too many adminsitrators at provincial council level wielding too much power and the structures at this level need to be broken down. However turkeys don't vote for Christmas so it is very unlikely to happen.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2018, 11:18:37 AM
Wrong on the 2nd one anyway Syfīn.
His role was the outburst after the Leitrim game which seemed to get got some backs up.
I won't name names but a lot of work was done.
The backlash was McGoverns piece in the match programme and his comments at the Cup presentation.
McStay's intervention put incredible pressure on John Prenty and hence him getting Brian to release that non-statement the following Thursday. The fact he was feeling enough heat to do that tells you McStay played a pivotal role in directing public anger. If there was just quiet apathy a venue change would have been much more likely. The noise was necessary.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 10:47:28 AM
I've always felt it was too easy to blame the 'money men' in Croke Park for all of the association's problems.
That gives a free pass to the fellas who hold the real power in provincial councils and national committees etc.
County Boards not having the help or expertise to run things in just an efficient way in financial terms has alot to do with the problems too as opposed to some big money bogey man residing in Croke Park. There is a reason that the Kildare management and players led the campaign last week as probably the Kildare county board new they would be going to HQ with their hand out looking for money or grants so their stratgey (as would be with most Co Boards) we need the money at the end of the year so more tickets in Croke Park will benifit us!!
Sorting out the overspends in Co Boards and provincial councils along with the fixtures mess is what the GAA needs to do in the next couple of years. It is no surpise that the shortsighted decisions of the CCCC are led by the same men who sould have come through these boards where the culture of get enough money to plug this or that short term financial hole exists almost everywhere!!!
The GAA should have a national stuctural capital development plan in terms of facilities and coaching and County Boards should be helped and reorganised to run day to day operations like reining in expenses (where possible) of their county teams!!
County boards just don't have the expertises at the moment to run an efficient operation despite how many well meaning and hard working people put in countless hours to keep their counties going.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 11:23:17 AM
I keep forgetting about McStay & the Hyde.
If Ryan and Horan leaned on the CCCC for that and again for Newbridge, I'd imagine the relationship is a bit frosty right now.
The CF was a Connacht Council fixture.
One of the softeners to the Bekan maestro was the statement by our Secretary that RCB accepts the fixing of the venue for the CF is a matter for the Connacht Council.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 10:59:40 AM
The exact quote from Horan this morning.
"I'm sorry that such a situation developed between a council and a county board, but I'm glad that we were able to find a resolution, we've learnt something from it. Kildare will be able to play Super 8 games in Newbridge."
Is this the official name for this now then?
This is Ireland, there's the official name for something and then there's the name people actually use.
It's one of our proudest traditions.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 02, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
Where was he all last week when it was kicking off?
Looking at his big red head today i'd say out in the sun without any sun cream.
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Great post.
Not really.
We've had the Slattery report which has resulted in reduced capacity in grounds like St. Conleth's.
With the capacity reduced, it is safe to hold games
Quote from: Jinxy on July 02, 2018, 03:19:19 PM
Not really.
We've had the Slattery report which has resulted in reduced capacity in grounds like St. Conleth's.
With the capacity reduced, it is safe to hold games
Absolutely, as was proved on Saturday evening. My point is that this was first and foremost a communications failure (for which Kildare County Board must take some responsibility as well as the CCCC), that such a mistake should not lead to people's reputations being traduced (which has certainly happened) and lastly, I would far rather have someone on the CCCC make such a mistake ten times, than countenance the one time where they let it go and rely on the famed docility of GAA fans, only for someone to be seriously injured or worse.
Making that mistake does not automatically mean you are out of touch with the grassroots. I think the pitchfork and torches element to this is completely overdone (not by yourself BTW Jinxy) and I think it is a proxy fight for other issues such as the Sky deal. Of which there was an awful amount of buffoonish stuff said earlier on in the week.
There was enough inaccuracy and misinformation to go round on both sides during the last week.
Also Jinxy, just with regard to Slattery, one of the critical parts of the risk analysis here would have been not only capacity, but how many were expected to turn up. Whilst it was completely out of order for Ned Quinn to suggest Football Factory scenes would ensue if people didn't get tickets, it is completely valid to have a concern that a certain amount of people will travel without them and factor that in to any safety plan.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Wrong on that part, there is a huge amount of room in front of the stand in Newbridge. In fact there is very little that can be considered a H&S hazard there. The wall and rails around the pitch will not be missed after redevelopment and the dressing rooms are pathetic but in every other department Newbridge is adequate.
Navan on the other hand has a stand that is a lot more dangerous than it's grass banks, I am shocked someone hasn't fell and broke their necks going down it yet. It will make a nice ground when done up. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like make it an all seater.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?
I'm fairness it's been mentioned several times down the years that claims have been made after pitch invasions. The most ridiculous one I remember is when one of the former presidents claimed they received a letter and a cleaning bill for a dress from a tyrone woman after she slipped and fell on the grass during a pitch invasion
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm
That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on July 02, 2018, 05:58:15 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Wrong on that part, there is a huge amount of room in front of the stand in Newbridge. In fact there is very little that can be considered a H&S hazard there. The wall and rails around the pitch will not be missed after redevelopment and the dressing rooms are pathetic but in every other department Newbridge is adequate.
Navan on the other hand has a stand that is a lot more dangerous than it's grass banks, I am shocked someone hasn't fell and broke their necks going down it yet. It will make a nice ground when done up. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like make it an all seater.
I haven't been in conleths since i played a schools leinster quarte final there in 93. And it was a proper kip then.
I heard the above quoted as a problem on Off The Ball, so apologies if it is not the case. I don't think the specifics of what is actually wrong witb the place changes the thrust of my arguments above though.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 11:31:45 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm
That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions
Is that the best evidence you can find? A figure of 200,000 pulled from where? raving about something that happened in Perth and Melbourne to me that looks like pure propaganda. BTW in 2018 pitch "invasions" are still seen in every ground apart from Croke Park
Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.
Quote from: LilySavage on July 02, 2018, 11:46:36 PM
Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.
There has been 3 new terraces built in the mid 90's too.
An example of what it was like then (coupled with a masterclass from Johnny McDonald)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5Mx7BGhsE
A kip compared to where though?
There are loads of old fashioned grounds around the country
Newbridge
Navan
Carlow
Tuam
Drogheda
Eight in
Nothing wrong once the pitch is decent and it can hold a crowd
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 11:46:10 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 11:31:45 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2018, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.
So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.
They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.
And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.
Rant over.
Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm
That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions
Is that the best evidence you can find? A figure of 200,000 pulled from where? raving about something that happened in Perth and Melbourne to me that looks like pure propaganda. BTW in 2018 pitch "invasions" are still seen in every ground apart from Croke Park
Tom Ryans evidence to an Oireachtas committee last month was that insurance costs had doubled in the past 5 years and that the majority of the payouts were not for players and coaches but for other injuries on GAA property.
Yeah, but the majority of those resulted from functions being held on club property, i.e. birthday parties etc.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 02:49:37 PM
Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.
We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.
Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?
It's the job of the Health and Safety people to anticipate risk and set an appropriate capacity for each ground in Ireland.
They set that capacity at 8,000 odd or whatever the exact figure was. It's not the GAA's job to set those figures.
Newbridge has a certified safe capacity, every ground has. Therefore there could never have been a question of there being safety problems at the match because it coud only have ever taken place with this certified safe capacity.
What the GAA were trying to do was actually undermining the whole concept of Health and Safety.
Quote from: easytiger95 on July 02, 2018, 05:31:03 PM
Also Jinxy, just with regard to Slattery, one of the critical parts of the risk analysis here would have been not only capacity, but how many were expected to turn up. Whilst it was completely out of order for Ned Quinn to suggest Football Factory scenes would ensue if people didn't get tickets, it is completely valid to have a concern that a certain amount of people will travel without them and factor that in to any safety plan.
Newbridge is a mid to large size town by Irish standards. It has a wide main street and people arrive from different directions when there's a match.
The notion that the GAA would tell people to "stay away" was comical. Why should anybody stay away from the centre of a town, and what authority had the GAA to tell anybody to do so?
Thurles is a smaller town than Newbridge, Clones much smaller, yet the capacity of Semple Stadium is 45,000 (it used to be as high as 60,000). St. Tiernach's Park holds around 30,000. In both of those towns, pretty much the entirety of the crowd makes it way through narrow streets to get to and from the venue.
If you have a problem with 8,500 people in Newbridge, I'd hate to see how you'd react to 45,000 in Thurles.
It was the horsy set coming in from the races attacking people with tickets they were worried about.
Quote from: LilySavage on July 02, 2018, 11:46:36 PM
Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.
I was shoved into the wall there in an u21 game in 93 or 94. Bad cess to that poxy wall.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: LilySavage on July 02, 2018, 11:46:36 PM
Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.
I was shoved into the wall there in an u21 game in 93 or 94. Bad cess to that poxy wall.
There was warfare at the end of our game there, we had been given a good hockeying by St. Ciaran's and our 17 year old, full stache sporting captain started a load of hassle at the final whistle. One of our selectors grabbed him, threw him over the wall and dragged him back to the dressing rooms, kicking the door closed behind the two of them.
He definitely thought the dressing room was too small at that stage.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 03, 2018, 09:47:22 AM
Yeah, but the majority of those resulted from functions being held on club property, i.e. birthday parties etc.
All signs of how litigious we have become.
Quote from: LilySavage on July 02, 2018, 11:46:36 PM
Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.
I always found Newbridge to be a grand venue and one you'd really look forward to going to. It has one of the best locations in Ireland, right in the centre of the town, and the ground itself really lends itself to generating a good atmosphere. It was a brilliant venue for Leinster club matches back in the 90s and early 2000s. Dublin played there a couple of times in the league around that period too, '94 and '95, and those games had really good atmospheres, miles better than what would be generated in Portlaoise, Navan or Tullamore.
Not sure why it gets such a bad rap.
Was in Navan for the Tyrone game; thought it was grand to be honest