All Ireland Senior Hurling Final - Port Láirge vs Cill Chainnigh - 7/09/2008

[Zulu]

I would not see Davy Fitzgerald leaving Waterford as being a blow to Waterford at all.  He showed in the AIF, that he has not got what it takes to manage a top inter county team.  He had no idea what to do that day.  I think that Waterford have a few lean years ahead of them and I doubt if Davy would want to be part of that.

I agree, where people are getting the idea Davy is a good manager is beyond me. He may in time become a good one but he has done nothing, that I'm aware of, to date that suggests he will become a quality manager.

told directly by someone who knows the scene in kilkenny who says a substantial part of De La Salle's teams were from kilkenny , which might explian the lack of waterford's impact at minor and u21.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong there Indiana, if memory serves me 12 or 13 of the starting 15 were Waterford lads. I think you'll find Waterford will remain competitive for the foreseeable future there are far more lads (and clubs) playing hurling seriously than in any time in the county's history.

[Reillers]

Davy Fitz has brought nothing to Waterford that McCarthy didn't. He made Waterford what they are, McCarthy came and not only brought in great players but changed the attitude of the players completley. He said on the Road to Croker when asked was there a difference between Cork and Waterford players attitude and he said that Waterford players had a more we'll give it a lash attitude, while the Cork players went into every match expecting to win, they never go in expecting to loose, because success is bred into them because of years and years of success and ability to have confidence that's never crushed. Justin McCarthy put belief and confidence into the Waterford hurlers and into Waterford hurling as a whole. He brought it to a new level and the only thing that he didn't do that Davy Fitz has is get them to a final, which he should have, and he was so close to doing that, a whisker away like.
But they were better under Justin, they were a lot better.
So many people have said that Waterford were so naive against Kilkenny, and they were, they were unbelievably naive. They weren't ready for Kilkenny, they weren't prepared and they were awful, really, really awful. Kilkenny were fantastic but Waterford were pathetic. They had a nice easy enought route to the final, Tipp were too young, they weren't ready and wont be for another season or two. McCarthy probably would have got them to the final, and while they mightn't have beaten KK they certainly would have put up a better fight, and wouldn't have gotten humiliated like they did.

Davy isn't a good manager, and nothing, besides a better relationship with the players apparently, he did came anywhere near what McCarthy brought to Waterford.
I don't see how people think he's a good manager, he's just a myth, nothing more then hype is behind Davy's name as a manager.

[dodo]

told directly by someone who knows the scene in kilkenny who says a substantial part of De La Salle's teams were from kilkenny , which might explian the lack of waterford's impact at minor and u21.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong there Indiana, if memory serves me 12 or 13 of the starting 15 were Waterford lads. I think you'll find Waterford will remain competitive for the foreseeable future there are far more lads (and clubs) playing hurling seriously than in any time in the county's history.

De La Salle Waterford, All-Ireland Champions 2008
Another game, another title for De La Salle. Remember when winning the Harty Cup was a scarcely conceivable target for Waterford hurling? Going forward, you cling to the truth that a) 13 of the 15 players are from Waterford, and b) all the evidence suggests they fear no one, twice coming out on the right side of one point games in the All-Ireland final against our betters in Kilkenny and Tipperary respectively.

And yet, it is important to celebrate it for what it is now: a Waterford team of any stripe winning a senior hurling All-Ireland. Even if none of this team graduate to the inter-county senior ranks, they have done us all proud and should be able to enjoy the plaudits without being pressurised into being the next Great White Hope of Waterford hurling. 

Source :  http://deiseach.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/de-la-salle-waterford-all-ireland-champions-2008/

[INDIANA]

don't think so zulu there was 5 kilkenny starters including michael grace is was arguably their best player , i've seen pretty much all de la salle has to offer and bar a few notable exceptions i didn't see much , either that or dublin are simply miles better than them and considering we were a good bit behind kilkenny this year, doesn't bode well for them.
As for Reillers post on Mc Carthy, i agree completely.

[Asal Mor]

Posted by: Reillers

McCarthy probably would have got them to the final, and while they mightn't have beaten KK they certainly would have put up a better fight, and wouldn't have gotten humiliated like they did.

I cant agree there Reillers. The whole thing had gone stale under McCarthy. The performance against Clare was the worst ive seen from this Waterford team - they didnt even try.

A lot of players that played under Davy at LIT and Waterford have great things to say about his preparation. Conor O Mahony put his personal success down to his time at LIT with Davy.

I agree that Waterford's performances were better last year than this year but then Big Dan was heroic last year scoring about 1-5 per game. This year he was like a traffic cone and Seamus Prendergast was on a par. Davy got as much from them as he could.

Then again, McCarthy is a corkman, so I suppose that would automatically make him the better manager Reillers.

[nobackdoor]

Agree with Reillers previous post. As has already been stated on this forum, ad nauseum, Waterford beat nobody to get to the AIF apart from a young Tipp team who were caught on the hop on the day. The Deise players let themselves down on the day, big Dan might as well have been flipping burgers under the Hogan stand.

They blamed Justin, but in the cold light of day, they would have been better looking at themselves. Their time is come and past and unforunately they won't come within peeing distance of an AI for the forseeable future.

Davy's on his bike, cause he can see the writings on the wall.

[Reillers]

Posted by: Reillers

McCarthy probably would have got them to the final, and while they mightn't have beaten KK they certainly would have put up a better fight, and wouldn't have gotten humiliated like they did.

I cant agree there Reillers. The whole thing had gone stale under McCarthy. The performance against Clare was the worst ive seen from this Waterford team - they didnt even try.

A lot of players that played under Davy at LIT and Waterford have great things to say about his preparation. Conor O Mahony put his personal success down to his time at LIT with Davy.

I agree that Waterford's performances were better last year than this year but then Big Dan was heroic last year scoring about 1-5 per game. This year he was like a traffic cone and Seamus Prendergast was on a par. Davy got as much from them as he could.

Then again, McCarthy is a corkman, so I suppose that would automatically make him the better manager Reillers.

Justin was stabbed in the back by the players he made great, a manager that has done so much for hurling and made Waterford who they are, he changed everything the attitude, the perception of Waterford hurling, he found and helped developed the team that played some of the greatest games of the decade. It's got nothing to do with him being from Cork. Things might have gone a small bit stale but under Justin they had fight in the belly, they had real fire, passion, they were ready and willing to fight. Against Kilkenny I've never seen a team so naive. Davy should have prepared them. There were a lot of things he should have looked at in the Cork games that could have helped them, but it was like Davy didn't bother at all. Justin would have sat down at went threw every second of it, and he would have had them prepared. The only preperation that was done by Davy was "shinning the plate and handing it to Cody." They were awful, so unprepared, they were led in blind and KK were gone out the gate home and dry before half time, they were so bad that the KK players were able to play to almost perfection. Justin, stale or not, would have not had the team that unprepared.
Davy got on with the players more, they said that, he said that it was the best year they'd had in a long time, and that might be so, but having the craic and a pint or so with the lads, being one of the lads, doesn't bring much to the team.
Davy can't and will never be able to be mentioned in the same breath as Justin, he's brought more to hurling then Davy ever has or will if we look at how his management career is going, Justin is a great, great hurling man, he brought the team to an inch of the final on numerous occasions and did not deserved to be treated the way he was, it's got nothing to do with him being from Cork.

[Silky]

So Justin's from Cork. We get your drift.

[INDIANA]

justin might be going somewhere else soon

[imtommygunn]

Interesting...

Reillers out of interest what could Waterford have done? What was so naive? They were just out of their depth. You seem to not be giving Kilkenny credit again here and are very derogatory against Davy Fitz. McCarthy was and is a great hurling man but it wasn't Davy Fitz who ousted him.

You may also note that in AIF players with big names who any Waterford man would have expected big games of did not perform - notably Ken McGrath, Eoin Murphy and prrobaly to a lesser extent Eoin Kelly. Were these boys poor under McCarthy Waterford would have been beat out the gate.

No amount of tactics could have got that 15 close to KK that day. Davy has done well with university and looked to do decent at Waterford. You state about what he will do the rest of his career - how would you know what he will do??

You seem to have an awful chip on that shoulder there.

[Asal Mor]

In fairness Reillers I agree with you about the great job Justin did in charge of Waterford. They have been the most exciting team of the past decade and my own favourite team these past few years. It was obvious though, that the spark had completely gone this year and I believe the players did what they had to do in getting rid of him. It could have been handled a lot better by the players and Big Dan was wrong to do what he did in the Clare game, but I understand that Justin never really developed much of a personal relationship with the players, so he can't have expected them to get too sentimental over his departure.

I don't know what you've got against Davy though Reillers. For them to beat a Tipp team that had been hugely impressive all year in the All Ireland semi was unimaginable in the aftermath of that Clare game a few months earlier. Davy put the spark back and Waterford maximised their potential to get to the final. Unfortunately they couldnt get near Kilkenny - physically, skill - wise or in terms of handling the pressure. The manager may deserve some flak for that but what exactly could he have done? Please explain what you would have done as Waterford m anager, because I've watched that match twice and I still have no answers. Yes, Waterford players panicked, and even Ken McGrath seemed to lose his nerve, but when you are engulfed by a tsunami that tends to happen.

Also Reillers, that remark that Waterford were so bad that they allowed Kilkenny to play to perfection, sounds like a cheap shot at an amazing Kilkenny performance. Almost sounds like your jealous of a county thats just won its 31st All Ireland.

[Reillers]

In fairness Reillers I agree with you about the great job Justin did in charge of Waterford. They have been the most exciting team of the past decade and my own favourite team these past few years. It was obvious though, that the spark had completely gone this year and I believe the players did what they had to do in getting rid of him. It could have been handled a lot better by the players and Big Dan was wrong to do what he did in the Clare game, but I understand that Justin never really developed much of a personal relationship with the players, so he can't have expected them to get too sentimental over his departure.

I don't know what you've got against Davy though Reillers. For them to beat a Tipp team that had been hugely impressive all year in the All Ireland semi was unimaginable in the aftermath of that Clare game a few months earlier. Davy put the spark back and Waterford maximised their potential to get to the final. Unfortunately they couldnt get near Kilkenny - physically, skill - wise or in terms of handling the pressure. The manager may deserve some flak for that but what exactly could he have done? Please explain what you would have done as Waterford m anager, because I've watched that match twice and I still have no answers. Yes, Waterford players panicked, and even Ken McGrath seemed to lose his nerve, but when you are engulfed by a tsunami that tends to happen.

Also Reillers, that remark that Waterford were so bad that they allowed Kilkenny to play to perfection, sounds like a cheap shot at an amazing Kilkenny performance. Almost sounds like your jealous of a county thats just won its 31st All Ireland.

Davy Fitz, what annoys me about him. He's not a good manager, everything about him is complete hype. I don't like the way he manages, I don't like what he's bringing to the game in the way in which he manages..has the man ever heard of burn out.
I hate the fact that McCarthy built this team, he made this team and the brats of players stab him in the back after all he tried to do was develop the team. He took of the likes of Big Dan in the Clare match because he was having a shocking game, he threw a hissy fit, fastforward a small while and McCarthy's gone and in comes Davy Fitz. Now Justin built this team, he made it what it is today. Yes beating Tipp was great, but infairness to Tipp they're not and I don't think they'll be ready for another season or two, but Tipp didn't have the experience on the big day that they needed and Waterford took advantage of that and had a good day out, which is something youi'd expect from this Waterford team that gave us so many brilliant days out over the past 5 years or so. 
Justin built this team, he changed everything about them, the players, the way they played, the attitude they have..etc. and all he gets in return is a shove out the door when the players, like Big Dan fail to preform which was more to do with form, as we saw in all his games this season, then the manager. Davy Fitz came in, he was handed a good team, with an easy route to the final and he couldn't have made a bigger hash of it.
Davy Fitz may have gotten on better with the players, but it's not a popularity contest, it's not who were better friends. Justin did his job as a manager. He built his team and prepared it. Now Davy Fitz I'm sure had great nights out with the lads, bestest best friends and all, but at the end of the day, he didn't prepare his team. He didn't do anything. They went in blind and that's know ones fault but his own. Davy Fitz, as a manager, is nothing more then a myth and a fairytale all wrapped into one. Justin gave everything to the Waterford cause, which being a Cork man most have taken a lot, he poured his own blood, sweat and tears into this team, they stab him in the back and Davy Fitz comes in, takes the reigns and drives them smack straight into a wall in a dark alley.


I've said it God knows how many times by now that Kilkenny were amazing against Waterford, every single time I've brought this topic up I've said it. I don't know how many more ways I've to spell it out, and at the moment I don't care about the bloody role of honour, at the moment KK are the best team in the country, I would care if it was unjust and if we deserved it but we didn't. I care more about rebuilding this team which will take a season, I care more about the fact that there are players in Cork that should be playing on the team but aren't, I care more about all of that crap about my team then I do about some bloody table. And I'm sick to death of every comment I make being brought back to the fact that I'm from Cork. Like with Justin, who at this stage I see more as a Waterford manager then a Cork man, but I can't comment on that without it being mentioned that of course I'd say it because he's from Cork. It's really beggining to wreck my head.

[INDIANA]

think you've over-stepped the mark a bit there reillers, he has won the fitzgibbon cup and other county titles at different grades as a manager. He mighn't be Brian Cody but he's not as bad as you say he is. I agree on some aspects of your post, as 23 points was a humiliation but even playing well they wouldn't have got to a single figure defeat. Not even brian cody training waterford would have won that game.
Ultimately only Justin could have won an all-ireland with this waterford team, he got them playing hurling no-one else could, made shanahan hurler of the year when he could barely get his game other years. The problem is this was last year or the year before. The 2008 waterford model with or without Justin wouldn;t have beaten the cats or got close, the dream ended when they lost to limerick last year. I thought the players were wrong to get rid of him, but as said above, none of them were friends and i doubt either party is that bothered about it anymore, because i'm pretty sure a man as astute as Mc Carthyknew damn well after the clare game, waterford weren't going to win any all-ireland this year. His legacy is more intact because he wasn't present a couple of weeks ago.

[orangeman]

think you've over-stepped the mark a bit there reillers, he has won the fitzgibbon cup and other county titles at different grades as a manager. He mighn't be Brian Cody but he's not as bad as you say he is. I agree on some aspects of your post, as 23 points was a humiliation but even playing well they wouldn't have got to a single figure defeat. Not even brian cody training waterford would have won that game.
Ultimately only Justin could have won an all-ireland with this waterford team, he got them playing hurling no-one else could, made shanahan hurler of the year when he could barely get his game other years. The problem is this was last year or the year before. The 2008 waterford model with or without Justin wouldn;t have beaten the cats or got close, the dream ended when they lost to limerick last year. I thought the players were wrong to get rid of him, but as said above, none of them were friends and i doubt either party is that bothered about it anymore, because i'm pretty sure a man as astute as Mc Carthyknew damn well after the clare game, waterford weren't going to win any all-ireland this year. His legacy is more intact because he wasn't present a couple of weeks ago.

Like you Indiana I have a certain degree of sympathy regarding what Reillers is saying but Fitzy isn't ALL hype - there's more to him than hype and if there is a bit of hype he has earned it - Waterford were NEVER going to win the AI this year, with or without Mc Carthy - with or without Fitzy - KK are just too far ahead of Waterford -
Yes, Mc Carthy was shafted by a pack of disloyal, almost spoilt players who didn't know a good manager when they had one - yes, Mc Carthy may have had his faults but who is perfect ?