Antrim Football Thread

[tyrone86]

You're not referring to Mark Lynch are you?

To be fair the lad I was thinking of is neither Colmans or Maghera, I possibly phrased that badly

[saffron sam2]

Don't have the numbers to back it up but I would suggest it is a higher number than when Fermanagh were even worse. The school under Corrigan and Peter McGinnity in the 90s made huge strides at schools football and openly targeted top players from other schools for entry at sixth year like Owens and McGrath did. I know what you're saying about third level too but I think that work at MacRory level was crucially important for the future and success of Fermanagh football.
Dom's antic weren't all bad.
Would be interesting to speak to as many players as possible on this, but any time I have they speak very highly of the MacRory competition and the influence it had on them.

You are proving my point again. Was the poaching of players like Owens and McGrath designed to enhance their inter-county careers or the profiles of the school and managers involved? Few, if any, MacRory managers are primarily concerned about the long term development of their charges.

Whilst Dom's (and indeed Henry's) antics may not have been all bad, I feel that both have crossed the Rubicon and neither should be allowed near a school team again. Their underling, Master Rasdale, why is his coaching record better at St. Mick's than it was at St. Mary's?

Whilst it can be argued that MacRory football has helped some individual players,

That's a start. Tomorrow morning you'll be a convert.

Well, it's the afternoon by this stage and no, I am not a convert. The only names mentioned in this thread who I can say probably benefited from McRory football are Gourley and McConnell. Two men from small, insignificant, Junior clubs who would have been destined for a life on teams littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men playing against teams little Gortin, Tattyreagh and Derrytresk, each littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men. When boys from small clubs have an opportunity to play alongside and against boys from senior clubs, then some will realise they have the potential to be as good. Now you could extrapolate, as you have, and say playing against the better schools will help your ability. One of my main arguments against this remains that those charged with managing MacRory teams do not have the long term interests of students in their own minds.

[nrico2006]

Well, it's the afternoon by this stage and no, I am not a convert. The only names mentioned in this thread who I can say probably benefited from McRory football are Gourley and McConnell. Two men from small, insignificant, Junior clubs who would have been destined for a life on teams littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men playing against teams little Gortin, Tattyreagh and Derrytresk, each littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men. When boys from small clubs have an opportunity to play alongside and against boys from senior clubs, then some will realise they have the potential to be as good. Now you could extrapolate, as you have, and say playing against the better schools will help your ability. One of my main arguments against this remains that those charged with managing MacRory teams do not have the long term interests of students in their own minds.

Good one.  I would hardly say from a goal keepers point of view McRory Cup is going to be hugely improve you - you are either a good keeper or not.  As for the tripe about insignificant clubs, a bit harsh considering the Rock who Gourley plays for won the Tyrone and Ulster Title last year and reached the All Ireland final.  As for the supposed countless numbers of fat, toothless and baldy men at junior level in Tyrone, you will also find quite a number of All Ireland winners (be it Vocational, Minor, U-21 or Senior) aimlessly playing away too. 

[billy the kid]

Don't have the numbers to back it up but I would suggest it is a higher number than when Fermanagh were even worse. The school under Corrigan and Peter McGinnity in the 90s made huge strides at schools football and openly targeted top players from other schools for entry at sixth year like Owens and McGrath did. I know what you're saying about third level too but I think that work at MacRory level was crucially important for the future and success of Fermanagh football.
Dom's antic weren't all bad.
Would be interesting to speak to as many players as possible on this, but any time I have they speak very highly of the MacRory competition and the influence it had on them.

You are proving my point again. Was the poaching of players like Owens and McGrath designed to enhance their inter-county careers or the profiles of the school and managers involved? Few, if any, MacRory managers are primarily concerned about the long term development of their charges.

Whilst Dom's (and indeed Henry's) antics may not have been all bad, I feel that both have crossed the Rubicon and neither should be allowed near a school team again. Their underling, Master Rasdale, why is his coaching record better at St. Mick's than it was at St. Mary's?

Whilst it can be argued that MacRory football has helped some individual players,

That's a start. Tomorrow morning you'll be a convert.

Well, it's the afternoon by this stage and no, I am not a convert. The only names mentioned in this thread who I can say probably benefited from McRory football are Gourley and McConnell. Two men from small, insignificant, Junior clubs who would have been destined for a life on teams littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men playing against teams little Gortin, Tattyreagh and Derrytresk, each littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men. When boys from small clubs have an opportunity to play alongside and against boys from senior clubs, then some will realise they have the potential to be as good. Now you could extrapolate, as you have, and say playing against the better schools will help your ability. One of my main arguments against this remains that those charged with managing MacRory teams do not have the long term interests of students in their own minds.

Sounds like a lovely place SS2 

[Maximus Marillius]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.   Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

[saffron sam2]

Well, it's the afternoon by this stage and no, I am not a convert. The only names mentioned in this thread who I can say probably benefited from McRory football are Gourley and McConnell. Two men from small, insignificant, Junior clubs who would have been destined for a life on teams littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men playing against teams little Gortin, Tattyreagh and Derrytresk, each littered with wee small fat baldy toothless men. When boys from small clubs have an opportunity to play alongside and against boys from senior clubs, then some will realise they have the potential to be as good. Now you could extrapolate, as you have, and say playing against the better schools will help your ability. One of my main arguments against this remains that those charged with managing MacRory teams do not have the long term interests of students in their own minds.

Good one.  I would hardly say from a goal keepers point of view McRory Cup is going to be hugely improve you - you are either a good keeper or not.  As for the tripe about insignificant clubs, a bit harsh considering the Rock who Gourley plays for won the Tyrone and Ulster Title last year and reached the All Ireland final.  As for the supposed countless numbers of fat, toothless and baldy men at junior level in Tyrone, you will also find quite a number of All Ireland winners (be it Vocational, Minor, U-21 or Senior) aimlessly playing away too. 

That is a quite a bizarre post. Does MacRory Cup football improve you or not? If a player comes from a small club and is playing against players from senior clubs, then yes he will either improve or sink without trace, regardless of position. McConnell would be playing alongside and facing a more talented player on a more regular basis in the MacRory than he would have been at Newtownstewart. Likewise, I would suggest that MacRory Cup training and preparation is more professional than that for Junior football.

I don't think Junior football in Tyrone is any different or better than for example Derry or Antrim. In my experience of Junior football (admittedly only 60 minutes) I saw more fat, toothless and baldy men than I did in all my years watching / playing Senior / Intermediate football. Some may or may not have had All-Ireland medals - when you throw in that point, you have already lost the argument. You appear to be letting personal links to a Junior club cloud your judgement of the reality of the situation.

[Spirit of 94]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.   Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

I think McKeever, Scullion, Coleman, McGilligan, Heaney, Barton, Brolly (not to mention sub-bench) might disagree.

[Maximus Marillius]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.   Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

I think McKeever, Scullion, Coleman, McGilligan, Heaney, Barton, Brolly (not to mention sub-bench) might disagree.

Spirit just to help you

D Mc Cusker
F Mc Cusker
J Mc Gurk
H Downey
A Tohill
D Cassidy
S Downey
E Gromely
D M C Nicholl
E Burns

Theres 10 players out of 17 who played in the 93 final. Looks like a back bone of a team to me. But we'll not split hairs. My point was Big Adrian, St Pats Maghera and the Mc Rory cups contribution to that team

[lynchbhoy]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.   Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

I think McKeever, Scullion, Coleman, McGilligan, Heaney, Barton, Brolly (not to mention sub-bench) might disagree.

Spirit just to help you

D Mc Cusker
F Mc Cusker
J Mc Gurk
H Downey
A Tohill
D Cassidy
S Downey
E Gromely
D M C Nicholl
E Burns

Theres 10 players out of 17 who played in the 93 final. Looks like a back bone of a team to me. But we'll not split hairs. My point was Big Adrian, St Pats Maghera and the Mc Rory cups contribution to that team

tohill yes
not the rest !

[Spirit of 94]

jez nrico you didn't take SS2s post seriously. What would an Antrim man know about what it takes to produce teams at county level.   Only on the wind up SS2.
Only for Maghera and Mac Rory cup football 93 would never have happened. Maybe i should be more precise and say only for a certain Adrain Mc Guckian. In other words lads, the key is highly skilled coaches and thats where Antrim have been struggling at secondary level. Also explaining why Maghera have not been as good as they were.

I think McKeever, Scullion, Coleman, McGilligan, Heaney, Barton, Brolly (not to mention sub-bench) might disagree.

Spirit just to help you

D Mc Cusker
F Mc Cusker
J Mc Gurk
H Downey
A Tohill
D Cassidy
S Downey
E Gromely
D M C Nicholl
E Burns

Theres 10 players out of 17 who played in the 93 final. Looks like a back bone of a team to me. But we'll not split hairs. My point was Big Adrian, St Pats Maghera and the Mc Rory cups contribution to that team

It had nothing then to do with the fact that the vast majority of those above were playing for what were the top club teams in Derry at the time?

[nrico2006]

My home club are not a Junior side, but in keeping with the thread it would be interesting to see the results of the like of St Marys or maybe another Antrim School competing in 'A' Colleges football for a consistent number of years - it can only have a positive affect on the players involved and subsequently it should improve the county team.  But as MM mentioned, the importance of top coaching is paramount to success at any level and in particular at Colleges level.  The successful college sides seem to have high profile players/ex players managing their team and this is bound to be another one of the many factors in their success. I believe it is important for schools to be competing regularly at the highest level of football, but I also think that clubs and their underage structures do not get the credit they deserve.  Geography plays a big part too, as the majority of the successful schools involved in the McRory Cup have the pick of the best players from a large number of clubs (Usually the top clubs).  What clubs would feed the Maghera/Enniskillen/Omagh sides and how many clubs are represented in each panel?    Is the same talent around Omagh/Dungannon/Maghera available in Belfast?  

[Maximus Marillius]

Spirit your are not the brightest. Big Adrian is a factor. he was responsible for developing  these players. Ask any of the aformentioned and they will tell you. All the articles and conversations wiith any of the players i mentioned all credit Mc Guckians contribution significantly.

It had nothing then to do with the fact that the vast majority of those above were playing for what were the top club teams in Derry at the time?

All the derry players today and before the 90's came from the big club also, so why have we not at least got to another All ireland final?

Our colleges are not producing winning teams like Big Adrains teams of the 80/90s. The two are linked

[lynchbhoy]

some of the top level schools teams in Leinster at least did not have high profile managers

its only once st pats navan became the 'maghera' of leinster that players started coming from all over to join up and be 'successful' that they began their great successful run (success breeds success and draws more players etc)

in prev years to my knowledge the top teams did not have start managers that were former 'star' players - st mels longford, new ross, portarlington, FCJ etc etc
I dont think st jarlaths of galway had either, but could be wrong...

former 'great' players usually dont make good managers imo and from what I have observed (in schools football as well as club football)

[culchy1]

cargin v. rasharkin tonight is off!!

[Maximus Marillius]

cargin v. rasharkin tonight is off!!

thats a pity