Antrim Football Thread

[theskull1]

Slippery slope or not, what would you suggest our club do when we had no manager? No-one stepped forward despite advertising, head hunting, begging ex players. No-one had the time, no-one had the interest. Had we not offered expenses, we would be managerless. Fact!

Plenty of clubs would not be short of coaching resource if all the 'outside men' stayed at home and coached within their club. I keep going back to a club in Tipp we visited a few years ago who that year had 15, yes 15 club men who decided to develop themselves as coaches/managers with other clubs rather than help with their juvenile teams. They mustn't have realised that they were absolutely threadbare at juvenile level with a few mentors covering two teams.

   

[theskull1]

Explain in the context of my last reply how you've came to that conclusion?

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Skull you have not taken in one word any of the posters have posted here who have very honestly described why they took on outside managers. I hope your not a marriage guidance councillor.

his last post was pretty easy to understand. the 15 people went else where to get experience and try their hand at managing elsewhere. it left their own club with next to nothing to coach at under-age thus having a knock on effect on the future of a club.

i get people wanting to manage at senior level, ive been involved in it, its grand but its not all that its cracked up to be. From being involved now in the under-age i wouldn't look anywhere else. the future development of your owns clubs future is much more important that individual ambitions IMO.

also this is where you get the future potential sneior management. those who have grafted and moulded the youth to the highest skill levels and attended CPDs/seminars and did the ground work within a club.

An outsider can walk away if it goes tits up after a season and not care how the team does the following season. could a local club man say the same?

[CSC]

My club started going to outside management at senior level about 15 years ago. The reason being we had no coaches in house who were of the standard to manage at the top level, plus we had a serious attitude issue with players not listening to in house coaches. We needed to make the transformational jump from intermediate to senior, and the thought (in hindsight, correct thought) was to go external to drive the team though the transformation.

We went outside and the club has elevated to senior level and all the senior players have now experienced good coaching so we have now developed our capability for the future.

At the same time, the club has really invested in underage coaching and we are reaping the results as we are now competitive at both hurling and football in underage.

The really interesting thing is, the underage coaches generally have a passion for and want want to coach underage, and are not interested in the senior job. So we now have a stable structure of dedicated underage pool of coaches doing a really good job and outside senior management. However, I believe that sooner rather than later, we will start the pipeline of really good in-house senior managers

[Catch and Kick]

There is only one criteria for selecting a senior coach.
It isn't whether he is a club man or an outsider.
Simple reality - is he good enough?
No one minds where he is from if he can make a difference. Ideally a club man but sometimes that's not enough. Then it's right to go outside.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

that says more about a club and its structures in coaching more so.

its time to look at doing some work on your existing coaches to bring them up to scratch because if they aint good enough this year what's going to change with them in a year to make them any better?

[bannside]

There's nothing like a broad mix of coaching/management experiences to enhance your all round ability in this field.

I have done the lot tbh - lots of years with club juveniles at all the age groups, as well as managing club seniors on top of a period outside managing at some top clubs in Derry. Throw in a good few years with county squads U-16 to U-21 for good measure!!

Then I'm back to the club again a better all rounded coach/manager, Chipping in with minors again and club reserve teams or whatever needs doing.

That's the block well covered and I don't regret any of it. Lots of good (and some not so good lol) days with them all which I wouldn't change if starting again.

But yes, it starts and finishes with your own club that's for sure.

[ck]

Interesting debate here. I don't think anyone is wrong on this.

What would your views be on the likes of Frank Dawson. Practically disowned by his club St.Galls (for reasons beyond me) and has been around several clubs since incl a disasterous year with Antrim. Would you regard him as an ego maniac? A man who likes a challenge? Highly sought after? Money man? Journey man?

[bannside]

Mostly what you find is that it's the clubs who come knocking your door - you rarely go chasing it. Actually Frank Dawson has a great reputation in Down football. Literally one club after the next goes looking for him and I know for a fact that foe a considerable time he was on the shortlist for Down county manager.

Frank has his own reasons why he likes to top up his revenue stream - but if clubs are willing to reimburse generously then why refuse!

He dosent seem to get the same respect in his own club, but that's very often the case. Maybe he does have a right old ego at him, but that is kinda par for the course in the trade...

[Milltown Row2]

He managed teams at club... No biggie really. Lenny managed teams before taking club team.

[bannside]

Fair enough Milltown but in St Galls where does the credit go? PJ and Sean Mc Gourty and no doubt a dozen others for taking juveniles when they were 8-18 or Lenny coming in and doing the business when he had a ready made team of all stars (in a club sense).

As far as I know Lenny did one year, maybe two, and got the lads across the line. But talking to St Galls people it was a mixture of families, great quality football breeding (it does help) and at the final push, an astute and quality manager like Lenny.

I'd say it was a combination of all of those which contributed to the making of one superb all round football machine.

[bannside]

They say in darts you need to lose one to win one. What about John Rafferty?  When St Galls beat a Nemo team in the semi in 06 they looked a complete team to me, only to shoot themselves in the foot in the final. But despite that many will not credit Rafferty for lining the club up.

Hey it all depends who you talk to.

[bannside]

Going back to John Rafferty in 2006 and I said it on this forum a few years back ...but... St Galls performance in beating a Nemo team with 8 Cork senior panelists who didn't score from play until the 43rd minute. It was a sublime performance but not sure if John Rafferty ever got the credit for it.

And the same man got lambasted by many in the club when they lost the final despite the fact that they kicked a hundred wides.

So while Lenny got the business done, really, how many in the club would have contributed to this success?

[Catch and Kick]

And how then would you rate our current county management as we set out in the NFL!

[Milltown Row2]

I was involved (well involved myself as Raff was a gent) in all that training leading up to Xmas before the Nemo game... His preseason stuff excellent his winter stuff brilliant. I firmly believe that Raff was the catalyst for that team.... Granted we had exceptional youngsters coming through and after relegation we brought in Culbert who gave the kids a chance, the rest is history.

I agree with you that the effort put in at St Pats home on the glen road (our pitch was closed 2 years) was brill.. Liam Stewart had a vision along with others you have mentioned to build a great set of juveniles who maybe one day win some championships again..

Lenny either by chance astute management or a combination of a mature team and timing got it right...

As for John he's was a massive club man when he played for us, man was driven as a player and more so as a manager...