Croke Park sets the standard for coexistence - An English Perspective

[Dinny Breen]

Please bear in mind that the article below is written for an English audience but as someone who works in this part of the city his comments on the North Side aren't too far off the mark.....And before the forum police jump down my throat I put it in the GAA section beacuse it's about Croke Park....


Croke Park sets the standard for coexistence
By John Inverdale



What have you done today to make you feel proud? The adopted anthem of the 2012 Olympics could justifiably have been playing from every jukebox in every bar in Dublin on Saturday night.


Togetherness: England in a huddle at Croke Park before kick-off
The tens of thousands who partied into the night were not just celebrating a great Irish victory, they were acknowledging the fact that sport, and in this case rugby, had confounded the doom-mongers in the media who had predicted an outpouring of venom and resentment against the visitors from across the Irish Sea.

It was one of the most joyous sporting occasions it has ever been my privilege to attend, and when all the revellers woke on Sunday morning (or probably afternoon) it was time to put the hangover of history to bed and embrace the future.

Which, as things stand, includes spending not far short of €400 million (£270 million) on the new Lansdowne Road - although, as we all know, these projects have a habit of increasing in cost at a rather alarming rate.

There are still various planning hoops to be jumped through, but essentially the new stadium is going to be like the old stadium, only more modern.

It's going to have roughly the same capacity of 50,000 and if/when Irish rugby internationals return to their traditional home and leave the 83,000-capacity Croke Park behind, it may be a bit like going to the local corner shop rather than Asda.

Those of you who were lucky enough to get a ticket for the game on Saturday will almost certainly have gone through parts of Dublin you hadn't seen before, and which you were probably shocked by. There are some estates which architecturally wouldn't be out of place in Bucharest, and some streets of deprivation that are a throwback to a time long before the Celtic Tiger revolution made the Irish economy the envy of most countries in Europe.

Gang warfare is rife in the city and, by common consent, the health service is a shambles. Which means you could argue there are better things to be spending €400 million on than a new, and some would say unnecessary, football and rugby stadium.

This is not an issue unique to Dublin. While the North-West of England harbours some of the worst sink estates in the country, Liverpool and Everton go their own merry ways in planning individual super-stadiums, when a joint venture combining blue and red would free up invaluable space and hundreds of millions of pounds to be invested in regenerating the area.

Huge arenas sit idle for the majority of their lives. While Tottenham Hotspur search endlessly for a home to replace White Hart Lane, the Emirates Stadium lies empty on alternate Saturdays barely an Arsene Wenger pout away.

Don't trot out the old cliches about the fans never accepting the idea of ground-sharing. It's about leadership and vision on the part of the clubs concerned, working in tandem with the local authorities.

There's a bigger picture out there than what colour scarf you wear, and if diehard Gaelic sports fans can welcome rugby and football to Croke Park, the two sides of the great Merseyside and north London divides can certainly coexist.

The great thing about Croke Park on Saturday was not just that it looked great, but that it 'felt' right. I'm sure all the football fans who go there in the next couple of weeks will feel similarly at home. All the talk years ago about the need to build a new 'national stadium' for Ireland was made to seem redundant. The country already has one.

The next stage for Croke Park is to replace the terracing on Hill 16 (but not change the name) and then, in keeping with a country accelerating through the premier league of Europe, it would have arguably one of the finest grounds on the continent.

The corner has been well and truly turned in Ireland. As Saturday night hazily became Sunday morning, and the talk became increasingly more honest (and inevitably less coherent), it was hard to find anyone who didn't think it would be something of a come-down to return in future to a much smaller venue for such a big occasion. So do they have to?"

[realredhandfan]

well written article.  inverdale has surpassed himself since the start of the rugby season with his coverage.  As for the Irish national stadium quip at the end.   Did anyone who voted yes to open Croke Park up seriously believe anything else would result?.  BTW, How many Rugby only schools in Ireland North and South broke with tradition and arranged to coach Gaelic in their schools this week all in keeping with the new found spirit of sharing or have we sucked this in as a myth as well? 

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

Some may remember the interview that took place a few years back between John Inverdale and Jarlath Burns on Radio 5 where Inverdale had his road to Damascus about gaelic games..... seems to me a fair and open-minded English journo.

[bottlethrower7]

why has a corner been turned?

The people who were at the match on saturday were people who always go to rugby matches, who are well used to listening to the english national anthem before games, and the 'die-hard sports fans' that have become very common in this country. They love to support a winning team and desert the sinking ship like rats once water starts getting in. The latter bunch pretty much just do what they're told out of fear of being exposed for the band-wagon hoppers that they are.

The truth is that there was never any liklihood of dissent towards the english national anthem, not from the people at that game anyway.

To turn a corner, lets play it at a GAA match, and see the reaction there.

An interesting aside that no one ever highlighted here. The last few times (at least twice) England soccer team has played here, the FAI decided it would be better not to play their national anthem, and it wasn't played. I don't recall much uproar over that. Is it any wonder they rioted on both of those occasions when they were over. Another point; when Lichtenstein played there a few years ago, many people in the crowd sat down when their anthem was played. Why? Because their anthem is 'God Save the Queen'.

There is nothing different about 'modern/official' Ireland this week from last week. A few rugby fans and a few others who managed to get tickets didn't boo during the english national anthem, because the media told them not to.

And who made it an issue in the first place? JJ Barrett aside, I don't know of anyone within the GAA who mentioned anything about anthems. And Barrett hasn't much credibility these days. The only one who mentioned it were the media and the celtic jersey anti-foreign games brigade that protested outside. Oh, and the British government. Lets not forget their gem about the 'wreath laying ceremony', saying they weren't going to do anything because the GAA told them not to, when no such discussion ever took place. And what about Tom McGuirk trying to find some significance in the fact that Girvan Dempsey scored a try in, supposedly, the same spot Micheal Hogan was shot in. Some security guard told him apparently. I've news for you Tom, its very unlikely that was the spot given the pitch has moved and twisted and turned more than once since those days. And even if it was, how is it significant.

The significance people are trying to attribute to last week is nothing short of embarrassing, and the most tragic thing about it is that there is a strong implication that the GAA were at least partly at fault for many of the ills in Irish society and the soured relations through history with our English neighbours. Yet GAA people, like many of those here, are proud of last saturday. Proud of what? That the GAA was at conflict with the English for so long and that it took a rugby team to come over and solve all our problems for us.

And on Inverdale's article. It was written by someone who obviously hasn't a clue, and should maybe stick to writing what he does know about (whatever that might be). Sticking his nose in and suggesting that Croke Park become the national stadium is irresponsible.

I think we all know theres not going to be any new Landsdowne Road. In my opinion Sean Kelly duped the GAA membership into giving up our stadium. I for one, don't need to be constantly reminded of it.

[Hardy]

Inverdale has been an apostle of Gaelic games in the English media for a long while. I first noticed him when he did a radio piece on some BBC sports programme in the run-up to the 2001 AIF that was very positive about the GAA and the games. It was done in tones of admiration and in the style of introducing the British public to a great undiscovered sporting phenomenon on their doorstep. He attended that game and did another piece after it, as I remember.

He's been back since and certainly attended this year's hurling final – I heard him talking on TV about how he was enthralled by the skill of 'King Henry'.  All his TV pieces around the France and England rugby games have been very complimentary to both Ireland and the GAA.

One lapse, which had me throwing something at the telly on Saturday, was when he explained why they were going on so much about the historical context to viewers, as he put it, "on the mainland". I forgave him, though, because of the positive balance in his ledger. Unfortunately, this usage has now entered the language of the British media because we've allowed it and, of course the public will follow. The pass is lost and we will have to live with the consequences unless we start protesting (at official level, even) to the media, the press council, whatever.  Which reminds me – I must fire off am email to the BBC. I invite anyone here who feels likewise to do the same.

What really pissed me off was that Keith Wood let it pass.

[full back]

Are you slightly picky there Hardy?
After all if that is the worst thing he said I imagine you could let it pass

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

One lapse, which had me throwing something at the telly on Saturday, was when he explained why they were going on so much about the historical context to viewers, as he put it, "on the mainland". I forgave him, though, because of the positive balance in his ledger. Unfortunately, this usage has now entered the language of the British media because we've allowed it and, of course the public will follow. The pass is lost and we will have to live with the consequences unless we start protesting (at official level, even) to the media, the press council, whatever.  Which reminds me – I must fire off am email to the BBC. I invite anyone here who feels likewise to do the same.

Hardy

That interview was where Jarlath invited Inverdale to attend a gaelic match and the rest is history.

BTW, they never did settle for what to call these two islands collectively - i.e Iberia for Spain and Portugal, Hispaniola for the Dominican Rep/Haiti. Across the water, they'd still like it to be known as the British Isles........

[Hardy]

BT7 - I was reading your piece and intending to post a quick 'spot-on' until ....

So spot-on, excpet for your last two paragraphs. You can't shoot every messenger who expreses an opinion, just because it conflicts with your own. So lay off my mate John!

And continually repeating the insult to the GAA membership that they are mere dupes, misled by the wiles of Sean Kelly, is wearing very thin and getting very tiresome. It would be credible if the 'no' campaigners had been so upset when there really was a bit of chicanery with the democratic process when the issue was voted on under the sainted Seán McCague.

[realredhandfan]

I think we can rest easy tonight, Irelands sport is united, Gaelic sports will now have a few more of the scarves and totties brigade at their games.  Support for the GAA is at an all time high......
Rubbish, we have opened the floodgates for a professional GAA, a more anglicised Irish society, and put in motion the tdeath march of our precious association,  FFS we are thast unapolgetically falling over ourselves to promote English symbolism we are singing it in the very faces of our best amateur Gaelic players, There should have been outright condemnation from this board of those who would bait our amatuer sportspeople.  Now that is the biggest insult of all.     

[Farrandeelin]

The only thing that I was against and still am against is that now the media are going to be jumping on the bandwagon of asking the GAA to open Croke Park full time to all sports because Lansdowne Road is going to cost the IRFU too much etc. The media love rugby by the way, why else would it get so much attention from all quarters for every game Ireland play or the provinces either?

[bottlethrower7]

Hardy - I fixed that there now.

[realredhandfan]

Farraendeelin, i believe that most of the population want it now.....

[Hardy]

FAM – I didn't know/remember the Jarlath link to Inverdale's 2001 pieces – thanks.

The 'mainland' tag does annoy me. I've come to terms with 'the British Isles' as a geographical expression, not a political one. At least that's how I choose to see it. "West-European Archipelago" or the like would be too cumbersome. And just like the Lions, if we tried 'British and Irish Isles', it would be shortened everywhere except in Ireland. But 'mainland' clearly denotes minor status for this island. I don't know any other example in the world where the term is used for a landmass less than at least ten times larger than the 'offshore' island.

I can say for certain that it has only come into use in recent times. Because, when I was in UCD, a generation ago, we had a lecturer who was English and a great character. One day he was introducing something discovered by Faraday, I think and mentioned that he'd been a professor at Cambridge, or wherever. Somebody in the class ventured a slag – "where's that?". He turned around and said, "it's on the mainland". It was a brilliant riposte because it was his own idea – we'd never heard the term before and we thought it was very funny and a great score for him. I never thought it would become almost standard and accepted, even by Irish people.

[Hardy]

BT-7 - you did?


Never mind - at least you're reasonable and sensible. Now this, on the other hand:

Rubbish, we have opened the floodgates for a professional GAA, a more anglicised Irish society, and put in motion the tdeath march of our precious association,  FFS we are thast unapolgetically falling over ourselves to promote English symbolism we are singing it in the very faces of our best amateur Gaelic players, There should have been outright condemnation from this board of those who would bait our amatuer sportspeople.  Now that is the biggest insult of all.     

[Hardy]

Farraendeelin, i believe that most of the population want it now.....

Better stop it, then.

I know, I know - but the problem for those against it is that I'd venture most of the GAA wants it as well.