Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[PAULD123]

I would suggest they have the final before the super 8 with the winner automatically getting a spot in the super 8's or a playoff for entry to the 8's.  That would give enough encouragement to commit to and win the second tier.
They need to sweeten the pot a little in my opinion.

I see your point but the problem with giving a super-8 place to the winners is that the prize then becomes the access to the Tier 1 competition. If you have a Tier 2 competition it has to be valued in its own right. Maybe it allows access to next year Tier 1, that makes sense, but the competition must be an independent competition to have it's existence be of any genuine merit.

Teams genuinely want to win the Junior & intermediate All-Ireland club titles. Our club won Ulster and missed out in an all-Ireland semi by a point. The Ulster title didn't get us into USC or All-Ireland senior. But the prize was great - being Ulster champions (even though at effectively tier 2 level).

If we go back to Junior All-Ireland (Tier 2) then that has to be a competition alone and not a same-season stepping stone. Otherwise we may as well just keep the qualifiers.

Also I think the final should be played as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland senior. The minors could come before it as a 3 match day (If we really insist on having minor final match senior final), or minors could be played at a separate event. Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?

[joemamas]

I would suggest they have the final before the super 8 with the winner automatically getting a spot in the super 8's or a playoff for entry to the 8's.  That would give enough encouragement to commit to and win the second tier.
They need to sweeten the pot a little in my opinion.

I see your point but the problem with giving a super-8 place to the winners is that the prize then becomes the access to the Tier 1 competition. If you have a Tier 2 competition it has to be valued in its own right. Maybe it allows access to next year Tier 1, that makes sense, but the competition must be an independent competition to have it's existence be of any genuine merit.

Teams genuinely want to win the Junior & intermediate All-Ireland club titles. Our club won Ulster and missed out in an all-Ireland semi by a point. The Ulster title didn't get us into USC or All-Ireland senior. But the prize was great - being Ulster champions (even though at effectively tier 2 level).

If we go back to Junior All-Ireland (Tier 2) then that has to be a competition alone and not a same-season stepping stone. Otherwise we may as well just keep the qualifiers.

Also I think the final should be played as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland senior. The minors could come before it as a 3 match day (If we really insist on having minor final match senior final), or minors could be played at a separate event. Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?

[/b][/u]

This is a no brainer and will give the competition credibility from the outset.

Getting to Croke park at 1.15 to watch a U17, doesen't cut it.
last year the place was still 2/3 thirds empty in the second half of that game.

[five points]

Is the minor final really that important or popular except for the participating counties?

The whole idea is that it is, to all intents and purposes, only for the participating counties. The ticket scramble for 2 senior All Ireland finals on the one day in Croke Park would be murderous. The u17s are fine as a warm-up.

[Rossfan]

A lot of sacred cows would have their ticket allocations cut to have 2 Senior Finals the one day.
Otherwise you'd have say Longford v Carlow getting 1500 tickets each.

[magpie seanie]

Things I'll never understand on threads like this.

1. Why people continually wish to create paths (back doors) for beaten teams to re enter-the competition. In the overwhelming majority of cases these beaten teams have genuinely no chance of winning the trophy. So all this does is bloat and elongate the competition unnecessarily.

2. Why anyone believes we need a second tier football championship. We already have one of those, it's called CLUB FOOTBALL. Club football needs multiple grades, as it ultimately must provide a past time for players of all abilities.  County football doesn't need to do this. It is an elite level sport.

3. Why anyone believes that the media, the general public, and even the majority of potentially available players would give even the slightest damn about a second tier county competition. It's almost as though people are deliberately ignoring everything we've learned from hurling over the past decade. And now we've hurling fans on social media bemoaning that RTE wont cover games with 200 spectators at them. Is that who you want to be in 5 years' time?

4. Why anyone on this earth would want to watch Antrim play Wicklow in round 1 of a championship, whether an open draw all county championship, or an open draw tier two championship. How to make sure the amazingly passive footballers of Antrim actually arrive at a complete stop, is to take away local derbies and associated media frenzy.

——-

If we want a high quality championship, then limit the number of games the weaker teams are faced with.

If we want to ensure that footballing counties can awaken from a slumber, then we can't eject them from the All Ireland. There is a great generation of 11 year olds in every single county right now. But they won't come close to fulfilling their potential unless the carrot of Gaelic Games is strong.

—-

Solution?


Go back to provincial championships.

Up to the provincial finals, beaten teams from National League d1 and d2 go into the back door once they've been beaten, and face-off until there's 4 teams playing 4 beaten provincial finalists.

Teams from d3 and d4 do not get a second chance unless they make the provincial final.

Club football becomes king again by the start of June in half the counties in Ireland.

Excelllent, excellent post. The obsession with the intercounty game has skewed decision making terribly. That balance needs to be redressed.

[Rossfan]

I'll leave this here for ye

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/semiprofessionalism-is-like-the-gaas-brexit-and-were-teetering-on-the-edge-of-a-cliff-right-now-38218438.html

[imtommygunn]

Things I'll never understand on threads like this.

1. Why people continually wish to create paths (back doors) for beaten teams to re enter-the competition. In the overwhelming majority of cases these beaten teams have genuinely no chance of winning the trophy. So all this does is bloat and elongate the competition unnecessarily.

2. Why anyone believes we need a second tier football championship. We already have one of those, it's called CLUB FOOTBALL. Club football needs multiple grades, as it ultimately must provide a past time for players of all abilities.  County football doesn't need to do this. It is an elite level sport.

3. Why anyone believes that the media, the general public, and even the majority of potentially available players would give even the slightest damn about a second tier county competition. It's almost as though people are deliberately ignoring everything we've learned from hurling over the past decade. And now we've hurling fans on social media bemoaning that RTE wont cover games with 200 spectators at them. Is that who you want to be in 5 years' time?

4. Why anyone on this earth would want to watch Antrim play Wicklow in round 1 of a championship, whether an open draw all county championship, or an open draw tier two championship. How to make sure the amazingly passive footballers of Antrim actually arrive at a complete stop, is to take away local derbies and associated media frenzy.

——-

If we want a high quality championship, then limit the number of games the weaker teams are faced with.

If we want to ensure that footballing counties can awaken from a slumber, then we can't eject them from the All Ireland. There is a great generation of 11 year olds in every single county right now. But they won't come close to fulfilling their potential unless the carrot of Gaelic Games is strong.

—-

Solution?


Go back to provincial championships.

Up to the provincial finals, beaten teams from National League d1 and d2 go into the back door once they've been beaten, and face-off until there's 4 teams playing 4 beaten provincial finalists.

Teams from d3 and d4 do not get a second chance unless they make the provincial final.

Club football becomes king again by the start of June in half the counties in Ireland.

Excelllent, excellent post. The obsession with the intercounty game has skewed decision making terribly. That balance needs to be redressed.

Initially I thought this was a load of clap trap but thinking about it more I now think your post is bang on the money.

The only thing is the protracted out club year with the county championships only finishing after the AI series so may be waiting about but there is a lot of merit in what you are saying there.

(Of course there maybe wouldn't be as much money in it for the GAA so that may be a factor but I think making things proper knockout again would boost attendances greatly).

Paul Coady the Carlow hurler had a very popular twitter thread last night about the McDonagh which was very interesting around a) funding and b) how do carlow ever really improve yo yoing between competitions.

[magpie seanie]

Super article by Cahair Healy. Thanks for sharing Rossfan.

[Rossfan]

No problem Seánie.
However like Brexiteers trying to return to the 1950s is he hankering after a time and way of doing things that has passed?
I know we've veered off the subject of the thread now....
Seeing as there's a new Fixtures and everything Committee can they come up with a way of ensuring that Club and County Championships advance in tandem over the Summer months?
Say designate a mandatory Club weekend in May, June, July, August and work County fixtures around that?

[Owenmoresider]

I'll leave this here for ye

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/semiprofessionalism-is-like-the-gaas-brexit-and-were-teetering-on-the-edge-of-a-cliff-right-now-38218438.html

Excellent piece, that's how it ought to be.

[Farrandeelin]

Super article by Cahair Healy. Thanks for sharing Rossfan.

Agree 100%. Well said Cahir Healy.

[Keyser soze]

Super article by Cahair Healy. Thanks for sharing Rossfan.

Agree 100%. Well said Cahir Healy.

I would agree with a lot of that as well.

Paul Flynn at least being honest in what way he wants the game to go, to me that is the antithesis of what the GAA is about but I suppose it is pointless trying to stem this tide. TV money and Sponsorship are the GAA gods to the people that matter.

Unfathomable to me that people who are through and through GAA people think it is a good idea for the GAA to go down this route.

[trailer]

I'll leave this here for ye

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/semiprofessionalism-is-like-the-gaas-brexit-and-were-teetering-on-the-edge-of-a-cliff-right-now-38218438.html

Nonsense. He says people are turning down county because it's a big commitment. The reason it is a big commitment is because no one wants to get completely humped out the gate, so they train more to get better, individually and collectively. There's no chance Jim Gavin or even Rory Gallagher is going to put their team out with a couple of training sessions under their belt. He's looking to rewind the clock 30 years. Not going to happen. He may as well be advocating for the Bishop to throw the ball in.

[Keyser soze]

I'll leave this here for ye

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/semiprofessionalism-is-like-the-gaas-brexit-and-were-teetering-on-the-edge-of-a-cliff-right-now-38218438.html

Nonsense. He says people are turning down county because it's a big commitment. The reason it is a big commitment is because no one wants to get completely humped out the gate, so they train more to get better, individually and collectively. There's no chance Jim Gavin or even Rory Gallagher is going to put their team out with a couple of training sessions under their belt. He's looking to rewind the clock 30 years. Not going to happen. He may as well be advocating for the Bishop to throw the ball in.

Can I ask what your views on Paul Flynn's statement are, do you think a semi professional GAA county setup is the way forward?

[BennyCake]

Players should be released to county managers for the last weekend of the month, like in international soccer. County game takes place, players go back to clubs until the end of next month.

It doesn't make sense for county managers to have so much access to players. I mean, Ireland don't hang on to Séamus Coleman or Shane Duffy, and only let them go back to club football for the odd game. It just doesn't make any sense, but that's what's happens in GAA. It's mad when you think about it.