Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[lenny]

There's a couple of Derry men on here rabidly espousing the introduction of Tiers, do you not realise that Derry will be in the dogshit ranks, have we not have had a shitty enough year without prolonging it any further by beating some other shit teams in a shit competition. Though I suppose it will give us an opportunity to develop some young players as anyone who is worth a f**k would be pissing off to America rather than endure the humiliation of playing for the dogshit cup.

Derry would start off in junior or intermediate which is appropriate for our ability at the moment. I would prefer us to be there than in senior where we have no chance to win anything and are getting our asses handed to us regularly over the last 5 or 6 years. Would you call junior or intermediate club championships dogshit cups?

We can't get our best players to commit to train and play for us as it is, how dyu think we will manage to do that if we are playing in a Mickey Mouse cup. We have been getting our ass handed to us because we are not good enough, we should take it like men instead of seeking the fig leaf of some second rate competition.

It was like that Div 4 final, it was embarassing to see Chrissy going up to collect that cup and you could see it was humiliating for the players to have to be there to play in it.

Maybe the players aren't committing because they know they are going to have to train hard with no chance of success. They are literally giving up so many ordinary things in their lives to be a county player and with no remote chance of reward in the form of success. That is why they are not committing and who could blame them. Put them at the level they should be playing at with a chance of success and a realistic training schedule and most would commit. I don't see any junior or intermediate club players not committing for their teams just because they're not playing at senior level. I enjoyed the Division 4 final and wasn't the least embarrassed. It was great to see Derry winning a final in croke park. I'm sure the players really enjoyed that part of the season also.

I know half a dozen people that attended that game, the majority of these people go to every Derry match in the full regalia, would struggle to take you to half the club grounds in the county as they happily admit they never watch club football. 

They are happy to get a day out at a Derry match and it doesn't appear to bother them too much if we win lose or draw other than whether they have an excuse for another day out.

It was abundantly clear from the players demeanour that they were embarassed at being presented with that cup, and rightly so, as indeed any self respecting player or supporter should be.   

You're essentially saying that 2/3 of our association (ie the club intermediate and junior players) shouldn't even bother playing because they should be embarrassed and ashamed to be playing on crap teams. All county division 3 and 4 county teams likewise. Interesting viewpoint thankfully not shared by too many.

There aren't too many playing any level of club football this summer in Derry what with the 11 week break in the leagues. And there would be less if it was up to you, as long as you get to pull on your Derry jersey every weekend you will be happy. So I don'tr see any point in debating with you about club football as you clearly have zero interest in it.

We have already been beat twice in the championship this summer and you want us to get more games, I could guarantee that if Derry were entering a second tier at this stage there wouldn't be any appetite amongst the players for it.

You obviously have zero interest as there have been plenty of matches going on during the 11 week break in the league. Great idea to keep players occupied with plenty of games. We've given lots of young players game time and integrated them into the senior set up. On another issue you haven't been debating, you've just kept repeating the same point.

[Keyser soze]

There's a couple of Derry men on here rabidly espousing the introduction of Tiers, do you not realise that Derry will be in the dogshit ranks, have we not have had a shitty enough year without prolonging it any further by beating some other shit teams in a shit competition. Though I suppose it will give us an opportunity to develop some young players as anyone who is worth a f**k would be pissing off to America rather than endure the humiliation of playing for the dogshit cup.

Derry would start off in junior or intermediate which is appropriate for our ability at the moment. I would prefer us to be there than in senior where we have no chance to win anything and are getting our asses handed to us regularly over the last 5 or 6 years. Would you call junior or intermediate club championships dogshit cups?

We can't get our best players to commit to train and play for us as it is, how dyu think we will manage to do that if we are playing in a Mickey Mouse cup. We have been getting our ass handed to us because we are not good enough, we should take it like men instead of seeking the fig leaf of some second rate competition.

It was like that Div 4 final, it was embarassing to see Chrissy going up to collect that cup and you could see it was humiliating for the players to have to be there to play in it.

Maybe the players aren't committing because they know they are going to have to train hard with no chance of success. They are literally giving up so many ordinary things in their lives to be a county player and with no remote chance of reward in the form of success. That is why they are not committing and who could blame them. Put them at the level they should be playing at with a chance of success and a realistic training schedule and most would commit. I don't see any junior or intermediate club players not committing for their teams just because they're not playing at senior level. I enjoyed the Division 4 final and wasn't the least embarrassed. It was great to see Derry winning a final in croke park. I'm sure the players really enjoyed that part of the season also.

I know half a dozen people that attended that game, the majority of these people go to every Derry match in the full regalia, would struggle to take you to half the club grounds in the county as they happily admit they never watch club football. 

They are happy to get a day out at a Derry match and it doesn't appear to bother them too much if we win lose or draw other than whether they have an excuse for another day out.

It was abundantly clear from the players demeanour that they were embarassed at being presented with that cup, and rightly so, as indeed any self respecting player or supporter should be.   

You're essentially saying that 2/3 of our association (ie the club intermediate and junior players) shouldn't even bother playing because they should be embarrassed and ashamed to be playing on crap teams. All county division 3 and 4 county teams likewise. Interesting viewpoint thankfully not shared by too many.

There aren't too many playing any level of club football this summer in Derry what with the 11 week break in the leagues. And there would be less if it was up to you, as long as you get to pull on your Derry jersey every weekend you will be happy. So I don'tr see any point in debating with you about club football as you clearly have zero interest in it.

We have already been beat twice in the championship this summer and you want us to get more games, I could guarantee that if Derry were entering a second tier at this stage there wouldn't be any appetite amongst the players for it.

You obviously have zero interest as there have been plenty of matches going on during the 11 week break in the league. Great idea to keep players occupied with plenty of games. We've given lots of young players game time and integrated them into the senior set up. On another issue you haven't been debating, you've just kept repeating the same point.

Well I suppose the phrase 'keep players occupied' for 3 months in the summer sums up the level of commitment to club players in your thinking. You sure are fond of these second rate competitions I will give you that. 

[Hawkeye9212]

The final of a two tier championship should be held before the final of the the Tier 1 competition. Teams should be promoted/relegated between the tiers. RTÉ must air games from both tiers. Give some of the games to Virgin and TG4 if necessary.

Proposal for a two tier championship:

Tier 1

12 teams split into 2 groups of 6. The team who finishes top advances to the semi-finals. The next two teams advance to the quarter-finals. The teams who finish bottom are relegated.

Tier 2

20 teams split into 4 groups of 5. The team who finishes top advances to the quarter-finals. The next two teams advance to the preliminary quarter-finals.

Tier 1

Group A

Donegal
Cavan
Tyrone
Kerry
Meath
Galway

Group B

Fermanagh
Kildare
Roscommon
Dublin
Monaghan
Mayo

Tier 2

Group A

Westmeath
Armagh
Longford
Tipperary
Wicklow

Group B

Derry
Carlow
Cork
Laois
Waterford

Group C

Down
Limerick
Clare
Wexford
Louth

Group D

Offaly
Antrim
Sligo
Leitrim
London

[lenny]

The final of a two tier championship should be held before the final of the the Tier 1 competition. Teams should be promoted/relegated between the tiers. RTÉ must air games from both tiers. Give some of the games to Virgin and TG4 if necessary.

Proposal for a two tier championship:

Tier 1

12 teams split into 2 groups of 6. The team who finishes top advances to the semi-finals. The next two teams advance to the quarter-finals. The teams who finish bottom are relegated.

Tier 2

20 teams split into 4 groups of 5. The team who finishes top advances to the quarter-finals. The next two teams advance to the preliminary quarter-finals.

Tier 1

Group A

Donegal
Cavan
Tyrone
Kerry
Meath
Galway

Group B

Fermanagh
Kildare
Roscommon
Dublin
Monaghan
Mayo

Tier 2

Group A

Westmeath
Armagh
Longford
Tipperary
Wicklow

Group B

Derry
Carlow
Cork
Laois
Waterford

Group C

Down
Limerick
Clare
Wexford
Louth

Group D

Offaly
Antrim
Sligo
Leitrim
London

A structure like that would work well. The key would be running it off with games every week. It does my head in teams having 5 or 6 weeks between championship games. As long as it's run off over the minimum time frame it would leave time for club football.

[BennyCake]

So do each team play the others once or twice? If it's once, that's already an imbalance, 3H 2A etc. Same as the NFL, which I always thought was imbalanced.

Any round robin system has to be playing each team, home and away.

[Hawkeye9212]

A structure like that would work well. The key would be running it off with games every week. It does my head in teams having 5 or 6 weeks between championship games. As long as it's run off over the minimum time frame it would leave time for club football.

Galway had a 3 week break in the hurling last year. We would probably be looking at a 2 or 3 week break in both tiers. Every team gets a minimum of 4/5 games and a maximum of 8/9 games. Some people have called for a three tier championship. The finals for tiers 2 and 3 could be held before the semi-finals of the Sam Maguire. I'd envision the same format for a two or three tier championship. Not that it matters because the GAA will probably go with Tommy Murphy 2.0.

[Hawkeye9212]

So do each team play the others once or twice? If it's once, that's already an imbalance, 3H 2A etc. Same as the NFL, which I always thought was imbalanced.

Any round robin system has to be playing each team, home and away.

2 home, 2 away, and 1 neutral. For example, Westmeath and Longford could play in Navan.

[BennyCake]

So do each team play the others once or twice? If it's once, that's already an imbalance, 3H 2A etc. Same as the NFL, which I always thought was imbalanced.

Any round robin system has to be playing each team, home and away.

2 home, 2 away, and 1 neutral. For example, Westmeath and Longford could play in Navan.

And Dublin could play their neutral game in, er... Croke Park?

[Hawkeye9212]

And Dublin could play their neutral game in, er... Croke Park?

They could be forced to use another ground depending on who they are playing. They do like to travel after all.

[BennyCake]

And Dublin could play their neutral game in, er... Croke Park?

They could be forced to use another ground depending on who they are playing. They do like to travel after all.

In the same way they were forced to use another ground in the Super 8's? 

[Rossfan]

You're mean spirited Benny!

[seafoid]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0629/1059207-gaa-set-out-tier-2-championship-proposals/

[Rossfan]

And a condensed Club AI series.

https://www.shannonside.ie/sport/featured-sport/ard-chomhairle-puts-forward-tier-two-proposals/

[BennyCake]

A load of balls.

[Blowitupref]

May as well call it the Tommy Murphy cup version 2.  Not before time that AI club series is condensed.  What will be played on March 17th in Croke Park now i'd wonder? time to bring back the railway cup