Champions League Final 2007 Athens May 23rd Offical Thread

[mooncatiii]

square ball id expect that point of view from you anyway given you're a manc!  the jealous bit is obvious, 5 european cups and 18 leagues! if u wana talk about fans and their behaviour what about united fans in lille and roma??  now there is proof of thuggery amongst fans it was clear on tv for every1 to see!  thugs and prawn sandwiches that old trafford worst atmosphere in the league in that place

[corn02]

Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

[J70]

Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

From what I've read as well, all of the above seems to have been the case. Apparently there were serious crushes when supporters were being held up at those gates. Thankfully no one was badly hurt.

The so-called "fans" robbing fellow supporters really is disgusting though. Utter scum.

[J70]

Oh dear

Did you expect them to do the paint-job overnight?

I'd expect that most sides would have something like that pre-ordered.

Apparently some screen-shots of the web page the official site was going to put up in the event of Liverpool winning got leaked also, much to the mocking delight of various rival supporters. As if United or Chelsea wouldn't have had all that stuff waiting and ready to be posted two minutes after the end of the game.

[Norf Tyrone]

Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

Spot on Corn. UEFA cannot brush all these things under the carpet. I've been at a few Chelsea Euro aways and you do get treated like animals on these trips. However there is NEVER any punishment given to the host Club. Organisation in England is a diffierant league to the remainder of Europe.

However, and you do state it, some of the Liverpool fans take a lot of responsability for what happened. What in particular irks me, and to be fair it's not a common opinion of the Pool fans on here, is that the Liverpool fans refuse to take any blame or responsability. They have a persecution complex that, dare I say it is getting dangerous.

Agree 100% with Corn.

[J70]

Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

Spot on Corn. UEFA cannot brush all these things under the carpet. I've been at a few Chelsea Euro aways and you do get treated like animals on these trips. However there is NEVER any punishment given to the host Club. Organisation in England is a diffierant league to the remainder of Europe.

However, and you do state it, some of the Liverpool fans take a lot of responsability for what happened. What in particular irks me, and to be fair it's not a common opinion of the Pool fans on here, is that the Liverpool fans refuse to take any blame or responsability. They have a persecution complex that, dare I say it is getting dangerous.

Agree 100% with Corn.

Check out some of the threads on this forum: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=f4de4e8d76f8bab668e730988c2bed9c&topic=179084.40

There are plenty of people expressing their disgust at the dirtbags who did the mugging and urging their identification and punishment.

I think you're overstating the "danger" of the so-called "persecution complex". There are always going to be Liverpool fans who automatically blame any misbehaviour on the part of fellow supporters on someone else, just as there will always be United fans who automatically blame and tarnish all Liverpool fans because some idiotic teenager smashed a sink at Old Trafford or threw a piece of shit at a United fan at Anfield. Denial and rationalization of the acts of one's own group, and demonization of the other, is a fact of life in a hell of lot more than sports. You see much of the same when it comes to discussions of things like Northern Ireland politics on this very board.

[mooncatiii]

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

i don't think their is that big of a sc**bag element.  they r widely regarded as one of the best groups of supporters in the game.  any incidents like this that went on was a small isolated incident!   i mean single figures or maybe at the out set low teens out of 50 000 u r always goin to get a few wasters!  every team has them none more so than the united fans  who come sing about heysel and hillsborough at any opportunity r who where involved in trouble in rome and lille and then there is chelsea and the headhunters! every footbasll club has a small minority like this and liverpools in relation to the many fans they have is a very small element

[Goats Do Shave]

Interesting article in the Times - from a Liverpool fan's perspective!

All over Athens in the early hours of yesterday morning, small groups of Liverpool fans were meeting up and commiserating with each other. There were a lot of hugs, rueful smiles and the same words exchanged again and again. "It's all right. We only lost. Nobody died."

Three hours after the game, Liverpool fans were much more ebullient than the AC Milan supporters. Scouse laughter was ringing around the bars of the Greek capital as thoughts turned to home and next season. Memories of Hillsborough, where defeats on the pitch were put into perspective in the most horrible manner, ensure that there will be few tears after Liverpool lose a mere match.

But yesterday morning there was little to laugh about. William Gaillard, Uefa's mouthpiece, has laid the blame for the chaos outside the Olympic Stadium squarely on the shoulders of Liverpool fans. Uefa does not need the help of anyone to make a mess of an event, but the controversy throws up a number of questions for Liverpool supporters and, sadly, gives ammunition to those whose version of events in Sheffield on April 15, 1989 involves ticketless fans storming the gates.

Yes, some people wearing "Hillsborough Justice Campaign" badges probably rushed police lines yesterday in the quest to get into the ground. On the face of it, that would appear to be a crass conflict of ideologies. However, there are few parallels between Wednesday in Athens and that dreadful Saturday in Yorkshire.

In 1989, there were plenty of tickets available for the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest. Lord Justice Taylor's report into the tragedy found that the design of the terracing was fatally flawed and that South Yorkshire police made a series of mistakes that led to the 96 deaths.

Liverpool fans were not to blame for the disaster and those who, like me, stepped over dead bodies that day resent any suggestion that we were the guilty parties. Sadly, few people remember the Taylor Report. They do recall the stories of drunken, ticketless fans that dominated the media in the aftermath of the disaster, however. The stories were untrue, but people still believe the ludicrous lies that had us stealing from our own dead.

Athens was very different. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ticket allocation – and few could argue that 17,000 was enough to satisfy Liverpool fans' demand – there were people at the stadium who were determined to get into the match by whatever means necessary.

In recent years, there have been a number of incidents – mostly unreported – where Liverpool supporters have charged turnstiles in massive numbers, setting up dangerous situations.

At Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final two years ago, a very dangerous crush ensued when Scousers broke through the gates. Away to PSV Eindhoven in the quarter-final this season, there were frightening moments outside the ground and the behaviour of ticketless fans provoked some harsh exchanges on the internet forums.

It is a problem that will not go away. "Bunking-in" is not just the last resort of the desperate fan; there are a substantial minority among Liverpool's travelling support who see getting into a game without paying as a badge of honour. A number of books written about the experiences of Liverpool fans in the 1970s and 1980s have mythologised bunking-in and the younger generation, seeking to emulate their elders, have little compunction about sneaking into a ground and occupying someone else's seat.

Mostly, they are young Scousers – and those with out-of-town accents and tickets who try to get their seats back can find themselves in unpleasant confrontations.

As the game moves upmarket and seeks to keep its traditional constituency outside the stadium while the corporate fans feast like kings inside, bunking-in will become a bigger problem.

Some Liverpool supporters even see it as a guerrilla act, the ultimate revenge of the disenfranchised fan. Priced out of the game? That's OK, it's free to the bunkers and they have the added satisfaction of making sure that they are not putting any money in the filthy-rich coffers of football's billionaires. It is a class war statement for some.

But what they forget is that such behaviour gives the police licence to crack heads – and invariably, like on Wednesday night, it's not the Scallies and bunkers who suffer. Having seen their lines swamped earlier in the day, the police were taking no chances with a second humiliation and took out their frustration on people with tickets.

That horde swarming over the gates are the flip side of the fanaticism we saw at Anfield against Barcelona and Chelsea. The bunkers want to get into the ground and all the police in Athens could not stop them. It might take a disaster to do that.

If it does, then it will be a very different tragedy to Hillsborough. Because then we – the men and boys whose desperation to get into the game makes us take wild risks – will have to shoulder the blame. And that's too high a price to pay to see a football match.

[mooncatiii]

For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

[Goats Do Shave]

You're right! In fact - I might start supporting the Liverpool support next season.

Feck this following football teams.... I'm a supporter of supporters from now on! 

[mooncatiii]

you do that big man

[J70]

For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

True, but the fellows who mugged their fellow supporters for tickets are complete and utter scumbags. Beyond one or two usual suspects on this board, no one would generalize beyond that.

[J70]

Interesting article in the Times - from a Liverpool fan's perspective!

All over Athens in the early hours of yesterday morning, small groups of Liverpool fans were meeting up and commiserating with each other. There were a lot of hugs, rueful smiles and the same words exchanged again and again. "It's all right. We only lost. Nobody died."

Three hours after the game, Liverpool fans were much more ebullient than the AC Milan supporters. Scouse laughter was ringing around the bars of the Greek capital as thoughts turned to home and next season. Memories of Hillsborough, where defeats on the pitch were put into perspective in the most horrible manner, ensure that there will be few tears after Liverpool lose a mere match.

But yesterday morning there was little to laugh about. William Gaillard, Uefa's mouthpiece, has laid the blame for the chaos outside the Olympic Stadium squarely on the shoulders of Liverpool fans. Uefa does not need the help of anyone to make a mess of an event, but the controversy throws up a number of questions for Liverpool supporters and, sadly, gives ammunition to those whose version of events in Sheffield on April 15, 1989 involves ticketless fans storming the gates.

Yes, some people wearing "Hillsborough Justice Campaign" badges probably rushed police lines yesterday in the quest to get into the ground. On the face of it, that would appear to be a crass conflict of ideologies. However, there are few parallels between Wednesday in Athens and that dreadful Saturday in Yorkshire.

In 1989, there were plenty of tickets available for the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest. Lord Justice Taylor's report into the tragedy found that the design of the terracing was fatally flawed and that South Yorkshire police made a series of mistakes that led to the 96 deaths.

Liverpool fans were not to blame for the disaster and those who, like me, stepped over dead bodies that day resent any suggestion that we were the guilty parties. Sadly, few people remember the Taylor Report. They do recall the stories of drunken, ticketless fans that dominated the media in the aftermath of the disaster, however. The stories were untrue, but people still believe the ludicrous lies that had us stealing from our own dead.

Athens was very different. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ticket allocation – and few could argue that 17,000 was enough to satisfy Liverpool fans' demand – there were people at the stadium who were determined to get into the match by whatever means necessary.

In recent years, there have been a number of incidents – mostly unreported – where Liverpool supporters have charged turnstiles in massive numbers, setting up dangerous situations.

At Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final two years ago, a very dangerous crush ensued when Scousers broke through the gates. Away to PSV Eindhoven in the quarter-final this season, there were frightening moments outside the ground and the behaviour of ticketless fans provoked some harsh exchanges on the internet forums.

It is a problem that will not go away. "Bunking-in" is not just the last resort of the desperate fan; there are a substantial minority among Liverpool's travelling support who see getting into a game without paying as a badge of honour. A number of books written about the experiences of Liverpool fans in the 1970s and 1980s have mythologised bunking-in and the younger generation, seeking to emulate their elders, have little compunction about sneaking into a ground and occupying someone else's seat.

Mostly, they are young Scousers – and those with out-of-town accents and tickets who try to get their seats back can find themselves in unpleasant confrontations.

As the game moves upmarket and seeks to keep its traditional constituency outside the stadium while the corporate fans feast like kings inside, bunking-in will become a bigger problem.

Some Liverpool supporters even see it as a guerrilla act, the ultimate revenge of the disenfranchised fan. Priced out of the game? That's OK, it's free to the bunkers and they have the added satisfaction of making sure that they are not putting any money in the filthy-rich coffers of football's billionaires. It is a class war statement for some.

But what they forget is that such behaviour gives the police licence to crack heads – and invariably, like on Wednesday night, it's not the Scallies and bunkers who suffer. Having seen their lines swamped earlier in the day, the police were taking no chances with a second humiliation and took out their frustration on people with tickets.

That horde swarming over the gates are the flip side of the fanaticism we saw at Anfield against Barcelona and Chelsea. The bunkers want to get into the ground and all the police in Athens could not stop them. It might take a disaster to do that.

If it does, then it will be a very different tragedy to Hillsborough. Because then we – the men and boys whose desperation to get into the game makes us take wild risks – will have to shoulder the blame. And that's too high a price to pay to see a football match.

That is something I had not heard before. It shouldn't be that hard for stadium authorities to organize and deal with though.

[Glensman]

I was there. I saw about 7/10 incidents of liverpool fans (which I am) stealing tickets from other Liverpool fans as they took them out to enter the ground. A couple were taken from women, one of whom was pushed to the ground. Disgusting.
Initially I saw a liverpool fan nick a ticket off a Greeek tout and I though fair play...then nicking tickets of our own fans started.

It was disgusting. I was in a way hoping that some scally nicked my ticket so I could get a slap at him.

That element exists - arguably within EVERY club but its still disgusting to see.

I would however say (and not going into detail as I am still knackered from being left to sleep on concrete outside the ground for about 4 hours and for another 2 hours in some tent at the airport) that there were serious flaws with the organisation. Turnstiles have their faults but work.

So both parties are to blame.

The statement from the UEFA president helps no one.

[cavan4ever]

I was there. I saw about 7/10 incidents of liverpool fans (which I am) stealing tickets from other Liverpool fans as they took them out to enter the ground. A couple were taken from women, one of whom was pushed to the ground. Disgusting.
Initially I saw a liverpool fan nick a ticket off a Greeek tout and I though fair play...then nicking tickets of our own fans started.

Thats horrible it's time they brought out some sort of pin code technology for tickets, it would stop that crack and make things alot harder for touts.