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1
Laois / Re: Qualifiers.
« on: June 22, 2017, 10:31:41 AM »
Looking at the Kildare v Meath  match programme
I see of the starting 15,   4 players came from Celbridge, 
 3 from Athy  and 3 from Johnstownbridge  [ and that not counting the other Cribbin player from J,town who is out injured.
that nearly 3/4 of the team from 3 clubs,

What does that say about us ?

Nothing.

What we should be looking at is that there's only  2 starters from Portlaoise , Josephs, Port, Mountmellick and Graigue.
As the small rural clubs are keeping up their end of the deal by providing the bulk of the players its clear where the future focus need to be concentrated.

2
Laois / Re: Qualifiers.
« on: June 19, 2017, 12:39:56 PM »
I think it's very hard for supporters to make a proper judgement about a team's fitness.

In the first half against Wicklow, they looked fit to me. There were plenty of runners and they seemed to move at a decent pace. In the second half, the opposite looked to be the case.

I would say for sure that they are not nearly as fit as they were when Barry Solan was in charge. On the other hand, I cannot believe that we are poorer than Wicklow when it comes to fitness. Sometimes, lack of fitness can be blamed for deeper problems.

As Junior says, some of our top players really weren't good enough yesterday.

 I wasn't at the match but  it was  a very hot day, looking at some  of the matches over the weekend and management were replacing runners early in the second half, would that have being part of the problem   ??.
Looking at the highlights last night  and 2 of their goals appeared lucky  ???  and we led by 8 and 9 points on 2 different occasions which would suggest to me that we were that much better.
 


3
Laois / Re: Qualifiers.
« on: June 17, 2017, 02:55:23 PM »
You know that horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach

4
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 08, 2017, 10:31:16 AM »



From today's Irish times
Jim McGuinness: All counties equal, but some more equal than others
Amateur? Like Mr Seligman’s dogs, most counties feel there’s nothing they can do
 
We were in the television studio in Portlaoise early on Saturday so I got a perfect view of Dublin as they pulled into the ground. Everything about their arrival was impressive.
On the drive down, I noticed that the All-Ireland champions were 200/1 on to win and that Carlow, meanwhile, were 33/1. The scale of the odds disturbed me.
Everyone reads Animal Farm at some stage in school and there is a reason why that line about all animals being equal, but some are more equal than others, has become so widely quoted. You see it in all walks of life. More than ever, it has become the governing truth of Gaelic football.
Everything about Dublin’s arrival looked sleek and polished and purposeful. It was an operation. The coach looked good. You could see they had a big support staff in their ranks. The players went about their business; the coaching staff prepared the pitch for their pre-match drills. Everyone had a clearly defined role and they followed it.

And on one level, it was wonderful to see the best team in an amateur sport achieving such a level of sophistication. Dublin have done everything possible to improve themselves as an entity over the last decade and this arrival was a visible manifestation of that.
It reminded me of the way Celtic operate on away days. But then you remember that the GAA is supposed to be an ‘amateur organisation’. Maybe the definition of that term needs to be revisited now. Because there are at least two levels within Gaelic football now and the higher tier bears a scant resemblance to the meaning of amateurism as we used to understand it.
So I watched the teams warming up and wondered how we got to this point and where Gaelic football is going. I think the majority of counties are on the verge of relinquishing hope. And I believe that GAA headquarters needs to hold an intervention to save Gaelic football from itself.

There is no real opportunity for most young players in the majority of counties to excel
It is becoming obvious that the vast majority of county boards either don’t have the willingness or the knowledge of how to live with the small group of elite counties that have set the standard for the past decade. So what can be done?
During the week, I caught some of a debate on the British election in which Jeremy Corbyn was hammering home the need to scrap tuition fees so that kids from all walks of life could get a fairer chance of a good education.
The statistics showed that kids from less privileged backgrounds just weren’t getting the same opportunity in education, and therefore in life, as those from more advantaged backgrounds.
The same argument pertains in the GAA now. There is no real opportunity for most young players in the majority of counties to excel. We could see that in Portlaoise on Saturday. Carlow came with a clear, well-worked game plan and performed with boldness of intent and real courage. They were still soundly beaten by a Dublin team that was in third gear.
Deep down, the players on both sides and those of us watching knew there was a gulf between the sides. It’s not about natural ability: it is about all the support systems behind Dublin and the other strong counties. It creates an environment of inequality.
If you are a Division Three or Four player trying to get ready to take on the elite players, how are you supposed to look your opponent in the eye and think: “I am ready for you.” You cannot. Because you know that it’s a lie.
Studying Dublin’s record during the week I was astonished to see that they have lost just twice in Leinster since 2004. That has been turning around in my head ever since. It’s a dizzying thought.
The world was a very different place 13 years ago. At that time, there was no inkling of this separation or gulf defining Gaelic football. But that is what has happened.
Tyrone prised their foot in the door around then and established themselves as a top-tier county. Their first All-Ireland success, coupled with an incredible fund-raising culture, enabled them to build a state of the art facility and put a huge emphasis on coaching. They laid success for subsequent generations to walk in the door to a system and culture that is in place.
Tyrone’s centre of excellence in Garvaghy.
Tyrone’s centre of excellence in Garvaghy.
Kerry’s biggest feature is that kids in that county aspire to wear the jersey. Mayo has a very strong football tradition and are driven by the hope of emancipating the county from the pain of coming so close so often. Galway has an assured sense of its own place. Donegal have managed to thrive after making a breakthrough in 2012, but I would be less certain of their ability to stay in that top tier unless football is resourced properly at board level.
The point is that all of these counties thrive on a kind of cause. It’s what creates the internal energy. Most counties don’t have that resource right now.
In 1997, I went I went down to Tralee to college. We won the Sigerson the following year.
The competition was actually held in Tralee. Because of that, we stayed in Killarney to prepare and we were put up in a very nice hotel. I remember that when we arrived, there was a flip chart in the corner of the meeting room and every single waking hour and detail was accounted for. I had never seen that at club or county level before. It was a level of organisation and a professionalisation of attitude instilled by Val Andrews and, later, Vinny O’Shea.

People made sacrifices. Moynihan was driving over from Glenflesk for 7am sessions
So we won the thing three years in a row. UCC were our big local rivals. When we would play, they often chanted “Come on, College.” The message was that they were playing for a proper university while we were “IT” students.
The 1999 Sigerson was played in Belfast. In the Queen’s students union on the night we were celebrating, the UCC lads started singing “Ye bought the Sigerson.” And the Tralee gang was singing back “We’ve got the cup and we can’t get rid of it.”
It’s well known that the Tralee team was stacked with All-Ireland winners and players like Michael Donnellan, Seamus Moynihan and Pádraic Joyce. And we all got scholarships and we walked into this terrific training system.
Now, people made sacrifices. Moynihan was driving over from Glenflesk for 7am sessions. It wasn’t a professional set up. But in a way, we did buy those Sigersons through the quality of the set-up. The other teams weren’t in a position to match what Tralee had just then. That’s what is going on an inter-county level now.
Next summer, the Super Eight will be the big innovation. I’d really love to know what the GAA thinks that term “Super Eight” says to the other 25 counties. I feel it will further convince them to believe that there is nothing they can do about the situation.

In the late 1960s, an American psychologist named Martin Seligman carried out a series of experiments using dogs grouped in harnesses who were subjected to electric shocks. One group could end the shocks by pressing a lever with their paws. But the third group could not and learned to believe that the shocks were inescapable.
In the next part of the experiment, the same group of dogs were placed in an area divided into boxes with low partitions. They could escape the shocks on one side by simply jumping the partition to the other side. But most of the dogs in the third group still believed they could do nothing to escape their fate and simply lay down and accepted the shock time and time again.
Seligman termed this behaviour “learned helplessness”. I think it describes the attitudes within many county boards right now. They simply exist. They believe that there is nothing they can really do to live with the big counties.
There will always be strong counties. But the GAA can make the game fairer.
Finance is one obvious area that is ripe for reform. The big counties like Kerry and Dublin have terrific brands. But if the GAA is a genuine amateur organisation and if it is proposing its marquee competition, the All-Ireland championship, as a fair contest, then how can four or five counties use their financial worth to shoot past the opposition? In a professional, commercial context, that is absolutely fine. But it is, by definition, unfair in an amateur arena.
What if that money was then pooled centrally and used to set up a nationwide coaching apparatus
What would happen, for instance, if rather than every county chasing its own sponsor, there was one central sponsor of every county in the championship?
Let’s say that it is Coca-Cola. So every team, from Dublin to Carlow wears that logo on its shirt. AIG is willing to give Dublin €4 million. Bayern Munich has agreed a deal with Adidas for €900 million over 10 years. So could a uniform sponsorship deliver, say, €10 million to the GAA per annum? Surely that’s not too much of a stretch.

What if that money was then pooled centrally and used to set up a nationwide coaching apparatus with a national high performance director and a high performance manager in each county? This would give young players the same access to coaching and benefits at primary, secondary and club level.
What if every county rolled out a nationalised programme incorporating everything from coaching to S&C to nutrition so that they have a chance to be the very best they can be?
I think that would change the mindset immediately. Dublin will always be a strong football county because they have 1.4 million people and they have a system in place now. So too will Kerry. But at least if a county like Carlow has a fairer share of funding, then the standards in those counties will rise.
In 2004, Armagh were probably the envy of most counties. They had a brilliant team and a terrific manager and a clear vision of how they wanted to play. They were driven, conscientious and ambitious. I think they were among the last of the old GAA pattern of an exceptional team “coming along” every so often.
The county gets a lift and interest becomes intense and then that team fades and things quieten down again.
Those rules don’t apply any more to the elite counties. This particular Dublin team will fade. But Dublin as an entity won’t. I believe the same is true of Kerry and also Tyrone.

After that, it becomes more difficult to predict. I think there is a distinct danger of Gaelic football reflecting the hurling championship, with a handful of counties playing on an entirely different plane.
Like Mr Seligman’s poor dogs, have come to feel that there is nothing they can do about it
But there is also a bleaker possibility that the entire championship will be reduced to a two-horse race. The best counties will keep pushing boundaries and trying to improve. Why wouldn’t they? They would be crazy not to.
The opposite will become true for those counties who, like Mr Seligman’s poor dogs, have come to feel that there is nothing they can do about it. They will lie there and accept their fate. We have seen this happen in too many championship games already this summer and there is worse to come.
The GAA must either act fast to change the collective thinking or else give up the pretence that the championship is a competition open to all counties.

5
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 08, 2017, 10:13:21 AM »
Billy may have been a cuntball of a player to come up against, but he was one of the smartest we togged out in 20 years and his experience is sadly missed. We'd do well to consider getting him involved somehow.

I agree 100%

However  I'd say that proposal wouldn't meet with universal approval.

6
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 07, 2017, 09:28:27 PM »
Lads, this is basically the same squad we've had for the last 6/7 years. Yes some players are older now but they're not 35/36! How did we go from division 1/high division 2 to division 4? How did we go from challenging Dublin and Donegal in the latter stages of the championship to going out to teams like Clare and Antrim?
To me it's clear. O'Flatharta, Lillis and now Creeden. Amateur set ups have destroyed these players. While other counties have developed and improved their players, we've gone backwards. Physically, tactically, mentally, we're just nowhere near what these players are capable of. I'm not saying they are world beaters but they are far better than what they've shown for the past few years. It may be too late for them now.



It's 5 years since we challenged Dublin in 2012 all those lads were in their prime including Ross.
Gone are Healy POL Billy Clancy Boyle it's not the same panel or anything like it.

Let's not overestimate the ability of Billy, Clancy (at that stage of his career) and Boyle. They were no better than what we have now. Healy and O'Leary are big losses but we had no Kingston in 2012, Meaney was forced to play full back. You say they were in their prime so did they suddenly go out of it when losing to Tipperary the year after it? Antrim the year after that?
Look at the team that ran Donegal close:
Eoin Culliton (Timahoe); Paul Begley (Stradbally), Mark Timmons (Graiguecullen), Peter O’Leary (O’Dempsey’s); Darren Strong (Emo), Kieran Lillis (Portlaoise), Padraig McMahon (Ballyroan Abbey); Padraig Clancy (Timahoe), John O’Loughlin (St Brigid’s); Ross Munnelly (Arles-Kilcruise), Billy Sheehan (Emo), Colm Begley (Parnells); Conor Meredith (O’Dempsey’s), Donal Kingston (Arles-Killeen), Evan O’Carroll (Crettyard).
This is the team that lost to Antrim:
G Brody; D O’Connor, M Timmons, S Attride; D Strong (0-02), G Hanrahan, C Begley; B Quigley, J O’Loughlin (0-01); N Donoher (0-01), C Boyle, E O’Carroll (0-01); R Munnelly (0-04, 2f), D Kingston (0-07, 1f), P Kingston (1-00).

It's the difference between a manager and set up getting the best out of players and other set ups doing the opposite.
[/quote

I'm disagreeing with very little of above especially McNulty and what replaced him.
Billy we'll disagree on ...a leader sadly lacking at the moment.
My point is a lot of the name are the same but they are not the same players.

7
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 07, 2017, 08:03:36 PM »
I disagree that we are where our available talent decrees we should be.

Again as I said weeks ago nobody is expecting us to be up there with Mayo, Dublin or Kerry. In fact, we are not even expecting really to be at Kildare's level.
But this doesn't mean we are among the bottom 8 teams in the country. Our league results and championship performance suggest we are.

On available talent; we haven't been setting the world alight at minor and u21 level. But we also haven't been losing to the likes of Offaly, Carlow, Westmeath and Wicklow on a regular basis.
Bar a brief period of about 10 years we never had consistently excellent minor teams AFAIK.

We are not very good. But we are better than Division 4 and we are better than they way last Sunday went. That would be my opinion.
Based on what? Based on the fact that it's only the top 3 or 4 teams in Leinster that beat us regularly at underage. Based on the fact that we were comfortable in Division 2 in 2013 & 2014, less so in 2015. Even in 2016 it came down to the last game before relegation.
Based on the fact that our county champions generally beat those from most counties (except Dublin).

I don't think that everything else is grand and it's all at Creedon's door.
But, this man has been backed, is being well paid and everything from discipline, fitness levels and game plans have been atrocious.

I've posted this before, since the 60's we have won 2 u21 Leinster titles each decade except the seventies and we got great returns from those teams. We were one ot the top underage counties look at the ROH there's no reason why we can't be still up there at underage at least.

8
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 07, 2017, 07:50:15 PM »
Lads, this is basically the same squad we've had for the last 6/7 years. Yes some players are older now but they're not 35/36! How did we go from division 1/high division 2 to division 4? How did we go from challenging Dublin and Donegal in the latter stages of the championship to going out to teams like Clare and Antrim?
To me it's clear. O'Flatharta, Lillis and now Creeden. Amateur set ups have destroyed these players. While other counties have developed and improved their players, we've gone backwards. Physically, tactically, mentally, we're just nowhere near what these players are capable of. I'm not saying they are world beaters but they are far better than what they've shown for the past few years. It may be too late for them now.

It's 5 years since we challenged Dublin in 2012 all those lads were in their prime including Ross.
Gone are Healy POL Billy Clancy Boyle it's not the same panel or anything like it.

9
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: June 07, 2017, 02:25:09 PM »
I'd agree with Clonad . If Micko took over what would he do with our aging players, Quigley, Begley, Meaney , McMahon, Booth, Timmons, Donoher, Strong, Conway, Munnelly.  Micko can hardly wave a magic wand here. These lads have to be replaced soon and who is gonna replace them ? Things will get worse before better.

This was not the first time we were beaten by 13 or 14 points but other times there was always hope because there were good u21 or minor players coming through this time it's different as there's nothing coming through.
Of the 10 mentioned above, my own view is a lot of them are there on repetition only and are no where near the players they once were, there's nothing to push them on or nothing to push them out.
Just go through the motions and I'll still be playing.

Clonadmad said in a recent post "the chickens would be coming home to roost" in about 10 years I think they have been roosting for the last 10.
Can it get worse ??? Probably but what difference will it make, top or bottom of division 4 !!!

What can be done...... I can't see what difference more money will make if there's not someone driving this from the top. It's not acceptable that big lone established clubs are not trying to develop young players and enter teams while other smaller clubs are. This needs to be driven home and the sooner the better as it's going to take 10 years.

10
Laois / Re: Qualifiers.
« on: June 05, 2017, 03:12:27 PM »
Just home and its sad to say we are at the very bottom of the pile now. We are a Div 4 outfit, a Div 4 management set up and a Div 4 administration. Simple as, no buts and no ifs.
Since we have to enter the qualifiers i honestly hope we get the toughest of draws and see where it takes us but id prefer if we just called it off right now. So so disappointed.

This post might make sense if everyone knew who 'we' are. Always thought it would be useful if we had our county allegiance as part of our sidebar profile.

Do you think that some of us forlorn Armagh people are going to go into the Laois local forum looking for sympathy?
You'll get plenty of sympathy off us  ;) Ye and Carlow are the only teams we can beat consistently!

Jazus I wouldn't fancy either right now, as a matter of fact I don't fancy anyone  all we need right now is for Carlow  to beat us and our embarrassment will be complete.

11
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: May 16, 2017, 05:25:19 PM »
Surely conway is still involved .. after donie he was our best player in the league

Lillis  ??

12
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: May 13, 2017, 02:43:19 PM »
Do you not remember the whole full back experiment? I'm all for experimenting with a player you want to use but can't find a position for but no need when a lad is on top of his game in his favoured place. Meaney was too honest and went along with it and arguably never came back from it. It makes me laugh reading this McNulty love in. He sent a Laois team out against Louth who couldn't even run because the y were so over trained. And he didn't become a politician overnight after leaving Laois. Nobody came looking for him.
We had John O'Loughlin and Brendan Quigley at midfield. Meaney wasn't going to start there. He was asked to play full back, I don't recall him being chained to a stake on the edge of the square. Plenty of footballers have been asked to play out of position for the better of a team. If a Cormac McAnallen or Seamus Moynihan could do it, I don't think it was exactly an insult to try a Kevin Meaney there.

Never came back from it? Its not like he was winning All Stars before he moved back there.

John O Keeffe Sean Walsh Seamus Moynihan Tommy Griffin and Aidan O Mahony ..... 14 or 15 All Ireland's not bad and not a natural fullback among them.

13
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: May 11, 2017, 05:02:23 PM »
I'd put Begley in at Centre Back - probably the most important position in modern football. He's experienced, he's smart, he has a lot of stamina but most importantly, he's not slow. The likes of Shane Julian and Lillis failed there because of their pace. A good team will run right through the centre, if your centre back and wing backs can be exploited like that. Begley has to go there for me. It's no time to be putting Meaney in there just before a big championship match in my opinion. Maybe Meaney on the wing. Strong / Begley / Meaney. Attride in the corner. We really are filling positions with lads who are not naturally suited to that position, but we're short in strength in depth, clearly. Meaney, ideally, should be a back up midfielder after JOL / Brendan, not a make shift centre back or wing back. But we have to do whatever to make do.

We have plenty of wing backs Dillon, O Connor,  O Reilly, Buggy all ahead of Meaney  leave him on the bench till the last 10mins.
Teams  are running through our halfback line because they're  up at the other end of the field getting turned over. Stay TF back and mark your man, if you'r  100% on top of him then and only then should you consider "bombing" up the field which in the case of most Laois backs at present is never.

I don't think Meaney gets the respect he deserves. He lost his way under McNulty who saw a fine athlete and abused him. Prior to that, he was destroying midfielders in the Club Championship. He was class day after day. Those other players you mentioned wouldn't lace his boots on a going day, and I could well see how a coach would persist with Meaney. It's hard to defend his recent performances, but I could say that for all of them bar Donie. Whatever is in this current panel, and I don't think it's much to be honest, we should just let Creedon go for broke and see what he can do. If it doesn't work, we can spin the wheel again. I think a lot of the arguments on here and elsewhere are based on polar opposite ideas. Some lads see potential in this panel while I do not. I personally think we haven't a back to our name at the moment, so we're on the back foot before we even start. We have some 'nice' footballers out the field, but that's all they are. It would take a lot for this panel to take out the likes of Kildare for example, and that's hardly saying a whole pile.

McNulty abused him ? can you explain.

14
Laois / Re: Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017
« on: May 09, 2017, 05:01:56 PM »
I'd put Begley in at Centre Back - probably the most important position in modern football. He's experienced, he's smart, he has a lot of stamina but most importantly, he's not slow. The likes of Shane Julian and Lillis failed there because of their pace. A good team will run right through the centre, if your centre back and wing backs can be exploited like that. Begley has to go there for me. It's no time to be putting Meaney in there just before a big championship match in my opinion. Maybe Meaney on the wing. Strong / Begley / Meaney. Attride in the corner. We really are filling positions with lads who are not naturally suited to that position, but we're short in strength in depth, clearly. Meaney, ideally, should be a back up midfielder after JOL / Brendan, not a make shift centre back or wing back. But we have to do whatever to make do.

We have plenty of wing backs Dillon, O Connor,  O Reilly, Buggy all ahead of Meaney  leave him on the bench till the last 10mins.
Teams  are running through our halfback line because they're  up at the other end of the field getting turned over. Stay TF back and mark your man, if you'r  100% on top of him then and only then should you consider "bombing" up the field which in the case of most Laois backs at present is never.

15
Laois / Re: Leinster Minor Football Championship 2017
« on: May 06, 2017, 08:19:02 PM »
That's a great win !! well done.
Who do they meet next.

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