First up NZ Provincial Barabarians this morning.
It divides opinion but I love the Lions Tours.
Good man Benny but be prepared for obtuse comments on rugby and especially the Lions. The tour in NZ is a great sporting occasion which comes around so rarely.
I like to see the Irish players doing well. Wonder how many will make the test team. Murray a shoe in? Furlong?
Some of the Irish greats are in this list
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/02/top-50-greatest-british-irish-lions/
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 03, 2017, 08:10:28 AM
Good man Benny but be prepared for obtuse comments on rugby and especially the Lions. The tour in NZ is a great sporting occasion which comes around so rarely.
In fairness that was a terrible first half. If that was a football match the pundits would be calling it shocking, attacking the game generally and emphasising poor skills and defensive systems. They'd be laughing at how bad the top players from five local countries were playing and saying it proves how bad the game is locally. They'd throw out the game is finished line.
The rugby boys will brush over it and make excuses for the poor quality (some of them genuine). They will then move on very quickly to hyping up the next game. Boys will buy everything said and go on about how rugby is an attacking game and Gaelic spoiled by defensive systems even though it's a much higher scoring sport.
Personally i don't see the point of the Lions, what is the benefit of putting 4 teams together, 3 of which are actually competitive at the top level to play a series against another top team, actually seems like an inferiority thing. imagine in soccer, england, ireland, scotland and wales joining to play a couple of games against Brazil or Argentina?
Quote from: themac_23 on June 03, 2017, 10:21:57 AM
Personally i don't see the point of the Lions, what is the benefit of putting 4 teams together, 3 of which are actually competitive at the top level to play a series against another top team, actually seems like an inferiority thing. imagine in soccer, england, ireland, scotland and wales joining to play a couple of games against Brazil or Argentina?
It only took 6 posts. Well done.
Quote from: AQMP on June 03, 2017, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on June 03, 2017, 10:21:57 AM
Personally i don't see the point of the Lions, what is the benefit of putting 4 teams together, 3 of which are actually competitive at the top level to play a series against another top team, actually seems like an inferiority thing. imagine in soccer, england, ireland, scotland and wales joining to play a couple of games against Brazil or Argentina?
Ah no, I wanted to be first to say I've no interest in the Lions☹️
When it comes to posting on threads you have no interest in, you have to move fast!
Is it OK not to be interested in the Lions but interested in why people are interested in the Lions?
The Irish lads didn't do themselves many favours today Sexton poor, Henderson missing tackles and Rory's darts awry.
Furlong was Ok when he came on. Early days the next few games against the Big Club teams will tell a tale!
Quote from: screenexile on June 03, 2017, 11:27:02 AM
The Irish lads didn't do themselves many favours today Sexton poor, Henderson missing tackles and Rory's darts awry.
Furlong was Ok when he came on. Early days the next few games against the Big Club teams will tell a tale!
It is a feeling out process, these lads dont know each other on the field of play the way their opponents do, they will learn a lot from today and improve but I suspect they will lose a game or two along the way before hitting their stride against the all blacks.
Quote from: AQMP on June 03, 2017, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on June 03, 2017, 10:21:57 AM
Personally i don't see the point of the Lions, what is the benefit of putting 4 teams together, 3 of which are actually competitive at the top level to play a series against another top team, actually seems like an inferiority thing. imagine in soccer, england, ireland, scotland and wales joining to play a couple of games against Brazil or Argentina?
Ah no, I wanted to be first to say I've no interest in the Lions☹️
8)
Very very sloppy performance TBH . There is room for improvement .
Well that was a Bag O' Shite. Plenty of excuses but few good performances. Best & Henderson have done themselves no favours, Sexton either. Heard them saying the bookies spread in NZ was 36pts!
Quote from: bennydorano on June 03, 2017, 01:24:36 PM
Well that was a Bag O' Shite. Plenty of excuses but few good performances. Best & Henderson have done themselves no favours, Sexton either. Heard them saying the bookies spread in NZ was 36pts!
Aye this was supposedly the 'easiest' warm up game they have. Not a great day for the Irish I'd say Best was the pick of them but he wasn't great either. I think Farrell will start at 10 he's been the best 10 in Europe for the past 2 seasons. A game like that today can totally destroy your chances of being anywhere near the test squad.
The NZ Babas are most acdemy semi-pro players apparently. And like the Lions they are a made up team so only started training together a week or so ago. Real sloppy start.
The Lions tours are great craic mostly. Particularly in SA and NZ.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18814038_10155511208561042_8234126112843438666_n.jpg?oh=5736a3c9be1dc45d3781c8af5c528143&oe=59DF3FB3)
Quote from: 5 Sams on June 03, 2017, 05:15:12 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18814038_10155511208561042_8234126112843438666_n.jpg?oh=5736a3c9be1dc45d3781c8af5c528143&oe=59DF3FB3)
That's going to piss off the loyalists.
that stuff is piss
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501)
I agree that it's irrelevant in sporting terms but since when has that been a barrier to commercial success in professional sport? He sums it up himself:
Quote
The real modern Lions success story is in 'morkoting' a spurious sense of 'them and us' to a rugby base which normally has very clear definitions of what constitutes 'us' and isn't shy about proclaiming them.
It is a huge commercial success, with goys all over this country wittering on about how they cant wait for the first test and how much it means to raw-meat-reared Munstermen to be chosen for a team that's nothing but a relic of auld imperialism. In an era when irrelevant junk sport is growing in popularity, when you can fill stadiums with people who will watch trucks driving around for three hours, I can only see the Lions morkot thriving, not disappearing.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
I don't know who you're agreeing with but no one knows about much less cares about the Irish B team's contractual obligation tour.
Quote from: Syferus on June 06, 2017, 01:56:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
I don't know who you're agreeing with but no one knows about much less cares about the Irish B team's contractual obligation tour.
You sure about that? This is a very important tour in terms of the next World Cup and young lads on the cusp of making the step up to the next level. The experience gained by lads like Carberry/Leavy/Scannell/Stockdale will be invaluable as these lads will be hugely important for the World Cup!
Quote from: Hardy on June 03, 2017, 11:23:16 AM
Is it OK not to be interested in the Lions but interested in why people are interested in the Lions?
Hmmm.... Interesting ???
Quote from: screenexile on June 06, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 06, 2017, 01:56:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
I don't know who you're agreeing with but no one knows about much less cares about the Irish B team's contractual obligation tour.
You sure about that? This is a very important tour in terms of the next World Cup and young lads on the cusp of making the step up to the next level. The experience gained by lads like Carberry/Leavy/Scannell/Stockdale will be invaluable as these lads will be hugely important for the World Cup!
+1. Huge tour for those listed and the likes of Marimon to build on his fantastic performance against England. If we are to make the last 4 in the next RWC we need 2/3 options in every position. None more so than scrum half.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 06, 2017, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 06, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 06, 2017, 01:56:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
I don't know who you're agreeing with but no one knows about much less cares about the Irish B team's contractual obligation tour.
You sure about that? This is a very important tour in terms of the next World Cup and young lads on the cusp of making the step up to the next level. The experience gained by lads like Carberry/Leavy/Scannell/Stockdale will be invaluable as these lads will be hugely important for the World Cup!
+1. Huge tour for those listed and the likes of Marimon to build on his fantastic performance against England. If we are to make the last 4 in the next RWC we need 2/3 options in every position. None more so than scrum half.
They would be better served playing what remains of provincial sides than Japan and the US if the goal is development.
Performing well against teams of their level means absolutely nothing when the real stuff starts and you either well know it and don't want to admit it or you're just fooling yourself.
Quote from: Syferus on June 06, 2017, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 06, 2017, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 06, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 06, 2017, 01:56:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501
I don't know who you're agreeing with but no one knows about much less cares about the Irish B team's contractual obligation tour.
You sure about that? This is a very important tour in terms of the next World Cup and young lads on the cusp of making the step up to the next level. The experience gained by lads like Carberry/Leavy/Scannell/Stockdale will be invaluable as these lads will be hugely important for the World Cup!
+1. Huge tour for those listed and the likes of Marimon to build on his fantastic performance against England. If we are to make the last 4 in the next RWC we need 2/3 options in every position. None more so than scrum half.
They would be better served playing what remains of provincial sides than Japan and the US if the goal is development.
Performing well against teams of their level means absolutely nothing when the real stuff starts and you either well know it and don't want to admit it or you're just fooling yourself.
What provincial sides?
Quote from: Hardy on June 05, 2017, 11:45:29 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2017, 10:07:21 AM
Have to say I'd agree with most of this. More interested in the Irish tour of the US and Japan.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/tipping-point-irrelevance-is-the-rock-on-which-the-lions-will-perish-1.3107501)
I agree that it's irrelevant in sporting terms but since when has that been a barrier to commercial success in professional sport? He sums it up himself:
Quote
The real modern Lions success story is in 'morkoting' a spurious sense of 'them and us' to a rugby base which normally has very clear definitions of what constitutes 'us' and isn't shy about proclaiming them.
It is a huge commercial success, with goys all over this country wittering on about how they cant wait for the first test and how much it means to raw-meat-reared Munstermen to be chosen for a team that's nothing but a relic of auld imperialism. In an era when irrelevant junk sport is growing in popularity, when you can fill stadiums with people who will watch trucks driving around for three hours, I can only see the Lions morkot thriving, not disappearing.
Relic of old imperialism my arse, Irish lads get an opportunity to develop and play with and against the worlds best, I fail to see any downside and I will be pulling for the lions on this tour no matter who plays for them.
The only unlikeable thing about the Lions is Gatland's mug. Though on balance it's probably better for us he has the gig and JS didn't have to split time.
12-10 to a lucky Blues team at half time after the lions destroyed them after a shaky start, sonny bill getting a injury time try for the blues.
That was some try from the Blues to win it.
The Lions never looked like being able to produce anything like that.
SBW showing that he is world class - even after fasting for 12 hours pre game due to Ramadan.
Rory Best will get hammered for that last line out !!
Crusaders on Saturday is a level up again as they are unbeaten in the Super Rugby this year - Lions could be in for a bigger defeat come Saturday if Crusaders are allowed to play all their All Blacks in that game.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 07, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
That was some try from the Blues to win it.
The Lions never looked like being able to produce anything like that.
Offloading is key, Gatland isn't on that page yet. Big scrum, set plays, crash ball stuff like Wales. NZ will eat that up and shite it out the other end.
Rugby has moved on, but Gatland hasn't.
No irish injuries will be a good tour for me. Dont care if they are hammered every game.
Tour was madness in the first place.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 07, 2017, 10:52:18 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 07, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
That was some try from the Blues to win it.
The Lions never looked like being able to produce anything like that.
Offloading is key, Gatland isn't on that page yet. Big scrum, set plays, crash ball stuff like Wales. NZ will eat that up and shite it out the other end.
Rugby has moved on, but Gatland hasn't.
Has it? Is that not just what the 6 nations is every year. It seems as though Gatland gets a lot of personal criticism from Ireland because of his past comments and his dropping of O'Driscoll but I wouldn't exactly say that Schmidt is anything other than a pragmatist either.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 07, 2017, 11:12:42 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 07, 2017, 10:52:18 AM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 07, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
That was some try from the Blues to win it.
The Lions never looked like being able to produce anything like that.
Offloading is key, Gatland isn't on that page yet. Big scrum, set plays, crash ball stuff like Wales. NZ will eat that up and shite it out the other end.
Rugby has moved on, but Gatland hasn't.
Has it? Is that not just what the 6 nations is every year. It seems as though Gatland gets a lot of personal criticism from Ireland because of his past comments and his dropping of O'Driscoll but I wouldn't exactly say that Schmidt is anything other than a pragmatist either.
Schmidt is pretty conservative as well that I do agree with and yes, you'll do OK in the 6N's against the other bosh teams of England and Wales and maybe the skillset still isn't there for the type of expansive game NZ play with physically smaller but more athletic teams, especially in the pack.
You could argue that NZ set the standard for strength and conditioning of all field teams - rugby, aussie rules, american football and even GAA. They seem years ahead!
The Blues outhalf, the younger Ione and Jordie Barrett were all pulled from their U20 world cup squad to play against the Lions. Scary talent!!!
A money making exercise mainly for the host union and Sky.
Insane scheduling 2 games played already and they not in NZ a week,next up a trimming from Canterbury.
Time to bin this tour of the colonies,just wait for the injuries and loss of form for Province and Ireland before and after the chaps return home.
Crusaders favourities with the bookies on Saturday. Can't be too often that the Lions have gone into a non-Test match as underdogs!
Now we're sucking diesel!!
Great win for the Lions today the Crusaders didn't really have an answer for it much better from the Irish as well Sexton very good when he came on and O'Mahoney and O'Brien excellent as well great to see it start to come together!
Sounded like a big performance. Furlong class yet again. The centres and back 3 will be interesting to see who is chosen.
What position was sexton playing when he came on
Quote from: dec on June 10, 2017, 01:18:02 PM
What position was sexton playing when he came on
Think 10 with Farrell to 12
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2017, 10:47:41 AM
Now we're sucking diesel!!
Great win for the Lions today the Crusaders didn't really have an answer for it much better from the Irish as well Sexton very good when he came on and O'Mahoney and O'Brien excellent as well great to see it start to come together!
Wow we actually agree on something screen.
They are finally starting to come together and I think they will be good to go for the first test, exciting stuff and I really think this series will be one for the ages.
f**k me this Argentina england game is something else way more entertaining than any of the lions games
great game to watch, some difference that the bosh crash slow moving pack style of the Lions this morning
the Argies have a big pack but have the back line to match it to, 2 bad tackling mistakes to let the England man through at the end in a position he should not have been fit to get out of and away.
Understrength Highlanders beat lions 23-22; lions badly fizzled out after been 22 - 13 up !
I see 4 lads have won a competition this morning to join the Lions squad.
Now I don't watch a huge amount of rugby but would have expected to know these guys called up. Never heard of three of them
Quote from: CiKe on June 17, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Now I don't watch a huge amount of rugby but would have expected to know these guys called up. Never heard of three of them
Its a joke I know these guys are only there to take the pressure off the current squad but ffs they can still claim to be a lions player whereas some players who are ten times the player are left at home. Gatland is a pr1ck. Lets not forget if Beale didnt slip over a last minute penalty we would have lost the series against an Aussie team that were spanked 3-0 by England by themselves. Warrenball is rubbish.
North has had an absolute 'mare of an opening ten minutes.
Quote from: gallsman on June 17, 2017, 08:50:05 AM
North has had an absolute 'mare of an opening ten minutes.
Well he is permanently concussed so he probably saw about 4 balls
The Haka is the most cringeworthy thing in sport.
Fun i see the opposite, i think its one of the greatest things in sport
It used to be good when it was once a year. Now they'd do the haka at the opening of an envelope.
Quote from: JimStynes on June 17, 2017, 09:07:41 AM
The Haka is the most cringeworthy thing in sport.
Agreed. Annoying when they take the huff about when they get to do it, opposing teams' reaction to it etc. Check out the video below when it was clearly not as big a thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htCTWZqCMhQ
It's the bit where they stick the tongue out and go all cross eyed that makes me laugh. Like most things, it used to be good when it was done in moderation but they've ripped the ass out of it now. They are getting longer and more props appearing as well, there was a f**king axe or something in that one this morning. Now every team is doing it and the intimidation thing is not there anymore.
Quote from: CiKe on June 17, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Now I don't watch a huge amount of rugby but would have expected to know these guys called up. Never heard of three of them
Joe Launchbury will be feeling the same.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 17, 2017, 09:59:40 AM
Quote from: CiKe on June 17, 2017, 08:20:39 AM
Now I don't watch a huge amount of rugby but would have expected to know these guys called up. Never heard of three of them
Joe Launchbury will be feeling the same.
If your national side happened to be touring in Aus/NZ this month, then you have far greater chance of a Lions call-up. That's the aggravating bit.
I don't know what we're complaining about. Fecking Tom Court is a Lion because of that exact fact.
If they needed an extra close by lock it should been johnny Grey, Gatland very biased to wales, though how he can leave out O`Brien and Peter O`M of the starting line up after there last 2 games in favour of the welsh pair would be a kick in the teeth
Well one of the two is Sam Warburton, the Captain. If fit he plays
why should he play cause hes captain, hes been poor all year for wales, and the current 2 men are playing better than him
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 17, 2017, 06:43:26 PM
If they needed an extra close by lock it should been johnny Grey, Gatland very biased to wales, though how he can leave out O`Brien and Peter O`M of the starting line up after there last 2 games in favour of the welsh pair would be a kick in the teeth
Lions team for the first test announced
JPR Williams
Michael Sheen
Charlotte Church
Tom Jones
Ivor the Engine
Kelly Jones from The Stereophonics
Bertrand Russell RIP
Dylan Thomas
Richard Burton RIP
Neville Southall
Shirley Bassey
David Lloyd George RIP
Owain Glyndowr
Richie from the Manics (missing presumed dead since 1995)
Sam Wharburton (capt)
Like i said JOG, i wouldn't have Sam in that team lol
Irish boys doing well. If Farrell isn't fit and a sensible selection policy is used then we will have 1/3 of the starting team including the key positions of tight head, open side, fly half and scrum half and captain.
Stander and Henshaw still have a chance for the later tests.
Furlong on track for true legend status
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 18, 2017, 01:13:13 AM
Like i said JOG, i wouldn't have Sam in that team lol
His dad is English so probsbly not Welsh enough
Quote from: smelmoth on June 18, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
Irish boys doing well. If Farrell isn't fit and a sensible selection policy is used then we will have 1/3 of the starting team including the key positions of tight head, open side, fly half and scrum half and captain.
Stander and Henshaw still have a chance for the later tests.
Furlong on track for true legend status
This love-in for Farell is mad stuff. Him being injured strengthens the Lions starting line-up.
Quote from: Syferus on June 18, 2017, 12:10:14 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 18, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
Irish boys doing well. If Farrell isn't fit and a sensible selection policy is used then we will have 1/3 of the starting team including the key positions of tight head, open side, fly half and scrum half and captain.
Stander and Henshaw still have a chance for the later tests.
Furlong on track for true legend status
This love-in for Farell is mad stuff. Him being injured strengthens the Lions starting line-up.
Loath him as most of us appear to do but he is a very good player and able to play both fly half and centre equally well.
Wonder how Sexton is taking the situation that Halfpenny is the designated kicker no matter who is at No.10.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 18, 2017, 12:17:51 PM
Quote from: Syferus on June 18, 2017, 12:10:14 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 18, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
Irish boys doing well. If Farrell isn't fit and a sensible selection policy is used then we will have 1/3 of the starting team including the key positions of tight head, open side, fly half and scrum half and captain.
Stander and Henshaw still have a chance for the later tests.
Furlong on track for true legend status
This love-in for Farell is mad stuff. Him being injured strengthens the Lions starting line-up.
Loath him as most of us appear to do but he is a very good player and able to play both fly half and centre equally well.
Wonder how Sexton is taking the situation that Halfpenny is the designated kicker no matter who is at No.10.
I think he's a weakness at 12, I'd take some like Henshaw every time over Farell unless the 10 is useless at goal-kicking. And at 10 he's inferior to Sexton in just about every facet.
He a poor mans Jonny Wilkinson, take his goal kicking out, the man has no play making ability at all
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 18, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
He a poor mans Jonny Wilkinson, take his goal kicking out, the man has no play making ability at all
Total nonsense.
Farrell is as capable as anyone of having a poor game but the idea that he has no play making ability is nonsense.
Both he and Sexton will get Test game time so we will see
34-6 win this morning. Starting to come together now.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 18, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
He a poor mans Jonny Wilkinson, take his goal kicking out, the man has no play making ability at all
Rubbish - I personally don't like him but he is the main man for both England and Saracens and they have been fairly successful in past few years. Respected rugby commentators who claim he is world class cannot all be wrong !!
Quote from: Mikhailov on June 20, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 18, 2017, 02:34:40 PM
He a poor mans Jonny Wilkinson, take his goal kicking out, the man has no play making ability at all
Rubbish - I personally don't like him but he is the main man for both England and Saracens and they have been fairly successful in past few years. Respected rugby commentators who claim he is world class cannot all be wrong !!
Bit like the commentators that never point out Devin Toner is stone useless, ya?
Team for first Test named tomorrow night at 8pm Irish Time. Eould be great to see O'Mahony skipper the side. Hard to see anything other than a NZ win..havent lost to anyone at Eden park since 1994...just hope they are competitive at least
Well the Lions have hardly scored any tries on this tour with the backs apart from today with the b team against a weakened Chiefs team. They will find it very hard to beat the all blacks without the backs making a decent contribution. Unless the lions pack can completely dominate the all blacks up front and Halfpenny gets all his kicks. I will tip the all blacks to win the first test.
Team for 1st test...
Backs: 15 Liam Williams (Wales); 14 Anthony Watson (England), 13 Jonathan Davies (Wales), 12 Ben Te'o (England), 11 Elliot Daly (England); 10 Owen Farrell (England), 9 Conor Murray (Ireland);
Forwards: 1 Mako Vunipola (England), 2 Jamie George (England), 3 Tadhg Furlong (Ireland); 4 Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), 5 George Kruis (England); 6 Peter O'Mahony - captain (Ireland), 7 Sean O'Brien (Ireland), 8 Taulupe Faletau (Wales).
Replacements: 16 Ken Owens (Wales), 17 Jack McGrath (Ireland), 18 Kyle Sinckler (England), 19 Maro Itoje (England), 20 Sam Warburton (Wales), 21 Rhys Webb (Wales), 22 Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), 23 Leigh Halfpenny (Wales).
what the hell has Maro Itoje done not to start ridiculous, plus world class farrell in for Sexton, though that change about 20mins into the game if the Lions pack are not on top and the flyhalf on the back foot.
Some turn around for O'Mahoney who probably wouldn't even have been there only for Heaslip getting injured before the England game...and the rest is history
Delighted for POM. Surely next Irish captain.
Gutsy selection by Gatland with that back 3. Warburton and Halfpenny offer little from the bench
Halfpenny on the bench?
Farrell is the kicker and Sexton on the bench already.
Strange one.
Yeah strange call regarding Halfpenny on the bench he's probably the one back in the squad that would offer little impact. I think I'd have gone with North for the bench as despite being out of form is still very capable of coming on and making a big impact.
Some honour for POM surely he'll lead Ireland into the next World Cup.
Have to say, a few brave calls from Gatland that I didn't expect. Dropping Halfpenny, North and Warburton all big for him
Delighted for PoM. Good to see Furlong and SoB in there too. Murray was a given
Would have thought stander to cover 6 and 8. Halfpenny seems daft alright.
He lost this match the moment he chose Farrell at 10.
Quote from: Syferus on June 21, 2017, 11:23:43 PM
He lost this match the moment he chose Farrell at 10.
I'm not sure the Lions can win a test against the All Blacks regardless of who he picks
I've said it before...I know sweet fcuk all about rugby but I watch it avidly and O'Mahony is one of the toughest men and greatest leaders in Irish sport I've seen in the last 20+ years. Good luck on Saturday Peter.
Quote from: stephenite on June 22, 2017, 12:16:13 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 21, 2017, 11:23:43 PM
He lost this match the moment he chose Farrell at 10.
I'm not sure the Lions can win a test against the All Blacks regardless of who he picks
Indeed! Syfeen getting a bit carried away with the hyperbole.
Interesting team selection picking a dynamic back 3 and O'Mahony in the back row but then shunning Itoje in the second row.
I'll take it as I was expecting North, Halfpenny and Warburton to play but the team picked looks to have a much better balance to it and Itoje off the bench is a very good impact player.
Sexton probably slightly unlucky to miss out but Farrell is the for out half so can't really grumble about it. I think it's the strongest team the Lions could put out but ultimately the All Blacks will take them I fear.
Whole load of guys who aren't first choice for their country starting...Williams at FB doesnt start here for Wales, George cant nail down a starting berth for England, how many international games has Daly started, very few, AWJ in front of Itoje.
Looks a mad selection to me.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
Whole load of guys who aren't first choice for their country starting...Williams at FB doesnt start here for Wales, George cant nail down a starting berth for England, how many international games has Daly started, very few, AWJ in front of Itoje.
Looks a mad selection to me.
Paul Wallace, Jeremy Davidson, John Bentley, Jenkins at FB in 97. List goes on.
A young O'Driscoll hadn't too many games under his belt in 2001. Not that I'm comparing any of the listed to BOD!
The Welsh having been crying out for Williams at FB. Cracking player!
Yes Walter you have listed 4 players, the same as I have. Were the ones you have listed all played in the one match?
Has Williams ever been selected at FB for Wales when Halfpenny has been fit?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 22, 2017, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
Whole load of guys who aren't first choice for their country starting...Williams at FB doesnt start here for Wales, George cant nail down a starting berth for England, how many international games has Daly started, very few, AWJ in front of Itoje.
Looks a mad selection to me.
Paul Wallace, Jeremy Davidson, John Bentley, Jenkins at FB in 97. List goes on.
A young O'Driscoll hadn't too many games under his belt in 2001. Not that I'm comparing any of the listed to BOD!
The Welsh having been crying out for Williams at FB. Cracking player!
Williams selection could be an accidental masterstroke only enforced by Halfpenny's awful form. I can imagine Gatland getting heat in the selection meeting about picking Halfpenny and ceding to consensus. Williams should be in there all day ahead of him, I'm pretty sure he has never started full back for Wales with Halfpenny on the wing. Williams potential is wasted on the wing.
Zebo also a better FB than Halfpenny and a shame now that he's missed out, another man wasted when put on the wing. Earls is a very good out and out winger and finisher and a shame he missed out on selection against the grossly overhyped North. They should turn that cub into a back row and be done with it.
Warrenball does not factor in flair, individual brilliance or playmaking ability. James Hook may not have been an all time great but he was consistenly overlooked for Wales in favour of Stephen Jones.
I think the Lions should be competitive for the first half at least as they'll look to keep it tight and low scoring, however to beat NZ you need to be racking up 30+ points and I'm not sure where those points will come from. I think NZ will get the business done in the second half and win by 10-15 points.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
Whole load of guys who aren't first choice for their country starting...Williams at FB doesnt start here for Wales, George cant nail down a starting berth for England, how many international games has Daly started, very few, AWJ in front of Itoje.
Looks a mad selection to me.
George has long been talked about as better than Hartley and for the life of me I don't know why Jones has Hartley on before him possibly for the impact George can have against a tired pack.
Williams should be the starting FB for Wales but has been in their starting line up regularly for a while now and Daly started all of England's 6N games so not sure what your gripe is with him. POM again hasn't been a regular starter for Ireland but you can't argue with what he brings.
What the above said!
Well the above have said the exact same as me i.e. neither George nor Williams can get past Hartley or Halfpenny to claim a starting position on their respective national sides so I am not sure how that advances your argument.
Daly ok there can be a case made for him but Otoje's omission is a real shocker for me.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 10:45:24 AM
Yes Walter you have listed 4 players, the same as I have. Were the ones you have listed all played in the one match?
Has Williams ever been selected at FB for Wales when Halfpenny has been fit?
Halfpenny picked for Wales for last good while based purely on his kicking ability. Farrell is his near equal in this respect (although hasn't been great on tour it must be said), so imagine they don't see the need to "carry" a kicker and want Williams greater attacking potency.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
Well the above have said the exact same as me i.e. neither George nor Williams can get past Hartley or Halfpenny to claim a starting position on their respective national sides so I am not sure how that advances your argument.
Daly ok there can be a case made for him but Otoje's omission is a real shocker for me.
I can't be bothered KS. Another day pal.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
Well the above have said the exact same as me i.e. neither George nor Williams can get past Hartley or Halfpenny to claim a starting position on their respective national sides so I am not sure how that advances your argument.
Daly ok there can be a case made for him but Otoje's omission is a real shocker for me.
Itoje clearly being marked as a 20-30min impact sub, fair enough. Just a shame Alun Wyn made it, he's off form and old imo. Henderson didn't do enough to stake a claim, Launchbury will be peeved at missing out.
Itoje could've started with Henderson off the bench perhaps.
Quote from: tiempo on June 22, 2017, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
Well the above have said the exact same as me i.e. neither George nor Williams can get past Hartley or Halfpenny to claim a starting position on their respective national sides so I am not sure how that advances your argument.
Daly ok there can be a case made for him but Otoje's omission is a real shocker for me.
Itoje clearly being marked as a 20-30min impact sub, fair enough. Just a shame Alun Wyn made it, he's off form and old imo. Henderson didn't do enough to stake a claim, Launchbury will be peeved at missing out.
Itoje could've started with Henderson off the bench perhaps.
Henderson suffered from a bad first game and hasn't just brought enough to it I think. Add to that the 2nd row is probably the Lions strongest line he will find it difficult to force his way into the Test squad I think.
Quote from: screenexile on June 22, 2017, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: tiempo on June 22, 2017, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 22, 2017, 12:09:37 PM
Well the above have said the exact same as me i.e. neither George nor Williams can get past Hartley or Halfpenny to claim a starting position on their respective national sides so I am not sure how that advances your argument.
Daly ok there can be a case made for him but Otoje's omission is a real shocker for me.
Itoje clearly being marked as a 20-30min impact sub, fair enough. Just a shame Alun Wyn made it, he's off form and old imo. Henderson didn't do enough to stake a claim, Launchbury will be peeved at missing out.
Itoje could've started with Henderson off the bench perhaps.
Henderson suffered from a bad first game and hasn't just brought enough to it I think. Add to that the 2nd row is probably the Lions strongest line he will find it difficult to force his way into the Test squad I think.
I felt Henderson has done as well as AWJ and also Henderson can play in back row and for this reason I expected him to in the 23. I think he will feature in a test jersey before the tour is over. He brings physicality and is good in the line out as well. However, AWJ should not have started ahead of Itoje - experience won that decision. Imagine the backlash in Wales if Gatland had selected a first 15 without AWJ, Warburton, North and Halfpenny !!!
One of Farrell or halfpenny has to play because the lions are relying on penalties to score and unfortunately sexton has missed some big kicks before
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
One of Farrell or halfpenny has to play because the lions are relying on penalties to score and unfortunately sexton has missed some big kicks before
I'd trust Sexton every time over Farrell.
Quote from: Syferus on June 22, 2017, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
One of Farrell or halfpenny has to play because the lions are relying on penalties to score and unfortunately sexton has missed some big kicks before
I'd trust Sexton every time over Farrell.
Off the tee? Honestly?!
How many games for club & country has Johnny played in versus how many there has been over the last year?
Seems he just hasn't been available for them.
Like him or loathe him Farrell is the main man going by last 12 months performances
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2017, 08:00:33 PM
How many games for club & country has Johnny played in versus how many there has been over the last year?
Seems he just hasn't been available for them.
Like him or loathe him Farrell is the main man going by last 12 months performances
Farrell's missed a few kicks on this tour. Usually preceeded by Miles Harrison saying he's a cert to get it!
Sexton's unfortunate that he wasnt let take the kicks last week. They all ended up being reasonably placed and if he'd got the full house, his overall display would have resulted in a lot more plaudits. But as he didn't, Farrell is the right choice. Hopefully Sexton will force his way in when he gets his chance.
I think POM capitain ahead of AWJ is a clear sign that the intention is Itoje will get the nod in the matches to come, unless AWJ has a stormer.
As for those criticising Jamie George, for me he's been the player of the tour so far in all the shadowboxing to date. England will definitely improve when he replaces the clown they have.
I have a fear the back up front row will struggle in late scrums.
Quote from: Syferus on June 22, 2017, 05:55:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 22, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
One of Farrell or halfpenny has to play because the lions are relying on penalties to score and unfortunately sexton has missed some big kicks before
I'd trust Sexton every time over Farrell.
farrells old man is helping to pick the team too so that helps him
Some nonsense talked on here about Farrell. He's a class act and so is his Da.
Jonny has missed plenty of kicks in his day.
Farrell couldn't out-perform Sexton in the biggest game of 2017 with all the marbles on the line. Why anyone expects him to do it now is anyone's guess.
Farrell is a great penalty kicker that's why he's playing , the guy who keeps him out of the 10 shirt for England isn't even in the squad, the guy Farrell has the 12 shirt in front of for England is playing 12 for lions which must mean henshaw is 3rd choice 12 .
If the abs get in front the lions are in big trouble team and tactics not made to come from behind .
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 23, 2017, 04:13:47 PM
Some nonsense talked on here about Farrell. He's a class act and so is his Da.
Jonny has missed plenty of kicks in his day.
Good point..people seem to forget Sexton had a huge miss in the Ireland ABs game in Dublin in 2013 which would have put the game beyond the reach of the win for the ABs, which they eventually got with the last minute try and conversion
https://youtu.be/BH7BBUnjUAE
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on June 23, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 23, 2017, 04:13:47 PM
Some nonsense talked on here about Farrell. He's a class act and so is his Da.
Jonny has missed plenty of kicks in his day.
Good point..people seem to forget Sexton had a huge miss in the Ireland ABs game in Dublin in 2013 which would have put the game beyond the reach of the win for the ABs, which they eventually got with the last minute try and conversion
https://youtu.be/BH7BBUnjUAE
That was a heartbreaking defeat. Had it in the bag.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 23, 2017, 09:21:29 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on June 23, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 23, 2017, 04:13:47 PM
Some nonsense talked on here about Farrell. He's a class act and so is his Da.
Jonny has missed plenty of kicks in his day.
Good point..people seem to forget Sexton had a huge miss in the Ireland ABs game in Dublin in 2013 which would have put the game beyond the reach of the win for the ABs, which they eventually got with the last minute try and conversion
https://youtu.be/BH7BBUnjUAE
That was a heartbreaking defeat. Had it in the bag.
Yeah..watching that youtube clip still hard to believe they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Would have been great for BOD and POC (arguably two of Irelands greatest ever players) to been on the team that got the first ever win against the ABs. Would have been great to beat them as well with McCaw skipper...the type of guy you would love on your team but I never liked him as an opposition.player. A master of the dark arts of the game.
Sky have really cranked up the bullshit this morning.
Let's just get this game on!
Well the whole Lions thing is bullshit so its a perfect fit for Sky.
Good first half.
Lions need to take chances when they get but what a feckin try!!
Boom!! Different gravy Lions class but just not in the same league as NZ.
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2017, 09:56:50 AM
Boom!! Different gravy Lions class but just not in the same league as NZ.
Lions class!? They've hardly had an attack all game. Are you listening to the sky commentary and not actually watching. Poor that this is the best 4 countries can produce. One good play is about all they e produced.
Quote from: screenexile on June 24, 2017, 09:56:50 AM
Boom!! Different gravy Lions class but just not in the same league as NZ.
Some of the guys playing great but some are shocking. Kruis and Jones have been shite. Sammy George gifted 3 pts for being a lazy f#ck. The team have no chance if they are carrying about 5 passengers
Done
Henshaw and Payne should play next day with the same back 3
Payne?! Williams and Davies were two of the Lions best players.
Kruis, AWJ will/should be dropped. Farrell was poor and should have been taken off instead of moving him to centre when Sexton came on.
Thought Te'o and Davis both have good games, can't see them being dropped
Quote from: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 10:37:54 AM
Payne?! Williams and Davies were two of the Lions best players.
Kruis, AWJ will/should be dropped. Farrell was poor and should have been taken off instead of moving him to centre when Sexton came on.
Kruis had an absolute mare.
The lions backs were alot better than i expected, but NZ are just operating at a level up.
It was competitive for 50 mins or so but after that period of relatively loose back and forth in the second half, the Lions were goosed.
Pretty happy with h all the Irish performances.
Overhyped representative match. Great honour for the players but apart from that it's just a corporate junket that needs scrapping. Two more heavy defeats will see the value of this series being questioned again.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 24, 2017, 11:09:07 AM
Overhyped representative match. Great honour for the players but apart from that it's just a corporate junket that needs scrapping. Two more heavy defeats will see the value of this series being questioned again.
Over hyped. Sure is but so much modern sport is. Look at the mcgregor thing. Sky don't help
Representative match. Yes but what player would turn down the chance? What group of fans have not been debating results and performances for the last 12 months without some sort of a nod to the Lions. It's huge
Corporate junket- like most big sporting events it is.
Scrapping? Off your rocker son
2 more heavy defeats would see the value of northern hemisphere rugby being questioned, not the series. Otherwise it would be like a government looking at poor maths tests results and responding by getting rid of tests. That sort of thinking is plainly moronic
Quote from: LCohen on June 24, 2017, 11:20:36 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 24, 2017, 11:09:07 AM
Overhyped representative match. Great honour for the players but apart from that it's just a corporate junket that needs scrapping. Two more heavy defeats will see the value of this series being questioned again.
Over hyped. Sure is but so much modern sport is. Look at the mcgregor thing. Sky don't help
Representative match. Yes but what player would turn down the chance? What group of fans have not been debating results and performances for the last 12 months without some sort of a nod to the Lions. It's huge
Corporate junket- like most big sporting events it is.
Scrapping? Off your rocker son
2 more heavy defeats would see the value of northern hemisphere rugby being questioned, not the series. Otherwise it would be like a government looking at poor maths tests results and responding by getting rid of tests. That sort of thinking is plainly moronic
In fairness, apart from the idea of scrapping the Lions and the series itself being questioned, he has a point. The Lions are a wholly contrived concept. If Gatland wasn't there again I would want the Lions to win but because I want him to fall flat on his face, I hope they get whitewashed. A Lions tour victory means nothing when compared to national success and I would opt for a Grand Slam over a Lions tour victory any day of the week. That it is huge is undeniable but I find it extremely difficult to get passionate for.
Representative sport is contrived period. That doesn't make it redundant. In rugby league, State of Origin is the very highest level the game is played at.
Quote from: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 12:03:16 PM
Representative sport is contrived period. That doesn't make it redundant. In rugby league, State of Origin is the very highest level the game is played at.
I still believe there is something far less contrived about representing the place where you were born than a jumble bag of nations.
I don't know anything about rugby league so I have to bow to your greater knowledge there.
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 12:03:16 PM
Representative sport is contrived period. That doesn't make it redundant. In rugby league, State of Origin is the very highest level the game is played at.
I still believe there is something far less contrived about representing the place where you were born than a jumble bag of nations.
I don't know anything about rugby league so I have to bow to your greater knowledge there.
Like what? Provincial rugby? International rugby? Very little in professional sport doors that description any more, not just the Lions.
Quote from: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 12:28:03 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 12:05:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 12:03:16 PM
Representative sport is contrived period. That doesn't make it redundant. In rugby league, State of Origin is the very highest level the game is played at.
I still believe there is something far less contrived about representing the place where you were born than a jumble bag of nations.
I don't know anything about rugby league so I have to bow to your greater knowledge there.
Like what? Provincial rugby? International rugby? Very little in professional sport doors that description any more, not just the Lions.
Although there are backdoor entries onto international teams, the overwhelming majority of them are made up in the main of players either born in or to parents from those countries. I'm not a fan of the live here for x number of years and you can represent the national team. That's contrived. I fail to see what is contrived about an elite athlete representing his own or his parents' country though.
These daft attacks on the Lions concept by begrudgers is what's contrived. Everyone four years a few of them wake up only to go back to sleep again, as if anyone even listens to them. I don't understand the deep-rooted desire to knock a clearly popular concept.
It's only daft in your opinion, everyone else is entitled to theirs.
The Lions is daft the same way the Ryder cup is daft. I'll watch it to see high quality rugby but I couldn't give a fiddler's if the Lions win or lose. I want to see the Irish lads do well and that's about the height of it.
Anyone you see singing the monotonous "Europe, Europe, Europe"at the Ryder cup or "Lions, lions, lions" is inevitably a complete knob.
Quote from: Syferus on June 24, 2017, 01:41:28 PM
These daft attacks on the Lions concept by begrudgers is what's contrived. Everyone four years a few of them wake up only to go back to sleep again, as if anyone even listens to them. I don't understand the deep-rooted desire to knock a clearly popular concept.
So being more into your own national team than a mix of four different countries is bedgrudgery? Grow up!
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
lol i assume this is a wind up ;D ;D ;D
pure twaddell
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Call the doctor if you really believe all this.
I suppose you have to hand it to sky - they know how to take something, hype the sh*te out of it and make it somehow important. I just find it impossible to get excited about and the presence of Gatland doesn't help. It will be a 3-0 whitewash anyway. The team are only together for a few weeks and they're playing away to the best team in the world. Wonder what kind of money do the players get ?
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
£70 000 a player. Plus win bonus if they complete the tour
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I think it's fairly clear you're not familiar with elite-level sport.
My advice to you would be to go back and watch this morning's test match - then you'd be more qualified to comment about it.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I think it's fairly clear you're not familiar with elite-level sport.
My advice to you would be to go back and watch this morning's test match - then you'd be more qualified to comment about it.
I watched it thanks. I'd say I'm a bit more qualified than you though as you seem to think that this morning's match was a classic rather than the All Blacks giving the Lions a lesson in superiority which frankly is a pathetic judgement. The Lions were outclassed in every department by New Zealand this morning and anyone who didn't see that really should stop letting Sky and Stuart Barnes form their judgements for them.
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I would leave SA and Australia out of it. Ireland and England dont fluke results against these teams anymore in fact over the last 10 yrs they win more than they lose sure even scotland beat Oz last week but will not mention the welsh under gatland who have a crap record against the trinations. Only NZ are on a different level to the rest. This lions tour is interestng because its NZ. Cant see the point of tours to Aus or SA anymore when home nations can win them on their own.
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I think it's fairly clear you're not familiar with elite-level sport.
My advice to you would be to go back and watch this morning's test match - then you'd be more qualified to comment about it.
I watched it thanks. I'd say I'm a bit more qualified than you though as you seem to think that this morning's match was a classic rather than the All Blacks giving the Lions a lesson in superiority which frankly is a pathetic judgement. The Lions were outclassed in every department by New Zealand this morning and anyone who didn't see that really should stop letting Sky and Stuart Barnes form their judgements for them.
I wouldn't say they were outclassed in the two centre positions where teo and davies got the better of sbw and crotty and crottys replacement. I also think they were as good if not better than the ABs at the lineout
The lions arguably created better scoring opportunities than the ABs but didn't take the chances. There was nothing special for example about ioane 2nd try..a speculative kick and williams let it drop through hid hands and bounced straight to ioane for a sprint in to the line
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 24, 2017, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I would leave SA and Australia out of it. Ireland and England dont fluke results against these teams anymore in fact over the last 10 yrs they win more than they lose sure even scotland beat Oz last week but will not mention the welsh under gatland who have a crap record against the trinations. Only NZ are on a different level to the rest. This lions tour is interestng because its NZ. Cant see the point of tours to Aus or SA anymore when home nations can win them on their own.
How often do they beat those teams in their own back yard though?
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 24, 2017, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I would leave SA and Australia out of it. Ireland and England dont fluke results against these teams anymore in fact over the last 10 yrs they win more than they lose sure even scotland beat Oz last week but will not mention the welsh under gatland who have a crap record against the trinations. Only NZ are on a different level to the rest. This lions tour is interestng because its NZ. Cant see the point of tours to Aus or SA anymore when home nations can win them on their own.
How often do they beat those teams in their own back yard though?
Well england whitewashed Australia last yesr in Oz. Scotland beat them.a few weeks ago. Ireland beat SA in SA last summer
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I think it's fairly clear you're not familiar with elite-level sport.
My advice to you would be to go back and watch this morning's test match - then you'd be more qualified to comment about it.
I watched it thanks. I'd say I'm a bit more qualified than you though as you seem to think that this morning's match was a classic rather than the All Blacks giving the Lions a lesson in superiority which frankly is a pathetic judgement. The Lions were outclassed in every department by New Zealand this morning and anyone who didn't see that really should stop letting Sky and Stuart Barnes form their judgements for them.
You really should watch it again, so, and stop thinking that others can't make their own judgements!
Some sh1t being spewed in here again!!
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on June 24, 2017, 11:10:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 09:45:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 24, 2017, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I would leave SA and Australia out of it. Ireland and England dont fluke results against these teams anymore in fact over the last 10 yrs they win more than they lose sure even scotland beat Oz last week but will not mention the welsh under gatland who have a crap record against the trinations. Only NZ are on a different level to the rest. This lions tour is interestng because its NZ. Cant see the point of tours to Aus or SA anymore when home nations can win them on their own.
How often do they beat those teams in their own back yard though?
Well england whitewashed Australia last yesr in Oz. Scotland beat them.a few weeks ago. Ireland beat SA in SA last summer
Australia are weaker than they have been for a long time. Remember that it was seen as an achievement for the Lions to win the series there in 2013 so they have gone back a fair bit. Ireland beating South Africa once and Scotland doing the same to Australia doesn't mean it is a regular occurrence over there. There'll always be a bit of magic about a tour to New Zealand but it doesn't mean victories in the other SANZAR members are easy to come by.
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 11:29:30 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 06:23:50 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 04:02:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Kilkevan on June 24, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 24, 2017, 02:15:49 PM
I care more about the British Lions than the Irish team in the same way I care more about my county than my club in GAA, the same way I care more about my country than my club in association football, and the same way I care more about my continent than my country or individual players in golf.
A British Lions tour, particularly to New Zealand, is the very pinnacle of rugby and this morning's match certainly bore out that assertion. It was titanic stuff with 46 of the world's very best players doing battle at one of the great cathedrals of world rugby.
Add that to the history, tradition and folklore and it's small wonder that people care about it.
Presumably, in the same vein, you care more about the Railway Cup than Sam/Liam ::)
Do any provincial GAA teams get 25,000 fans travelling to the far side of the globe to follow them?
Ah you're a gloryhunter fanboy... Thanks for clearing that up!!!
The sport I take most seriously is top quality, elite level sport, as is the case with most normal people.
That's what British Lions tours are.
They are the pinnacle of the sport.
The highest individual and/or team honour a player from the British Isles can achieve is to be part of a winning British Lions team.
Nobody takes the Railway Cup seriously, so you might want to address your criticism at the vast majority of inter-county players who don't bother their holes making themselves available for it.
The Lions tours are not the pinnacle of the sport. The World Cup is. Closely followed by the Rugby Championship. The Lions are the British Isles' admitting they can't win, apart from the odd fluke result, against SH opposition unless they all join forces. It's the epitome of an inferiority complex. At that, the Lions routinely get their arses handed to them.
You say you are more into international football than club football but then say you are into sport played at it's highest level. International football is not the highest level and hasn't been for at least twenty years. Since the big European clubs have been able to buy who they like, the Champions League dwarfs the World Cup. At World Cups there are invariably teams which don't bother which could compete.
In the GAA, if you think you're watching elite sport by supporting Roscommon... well... I'd say you'd do better to not bother at all if elite is all you're looking for.
I think it's fairly clear you're not familiar with elite-level sport.
My advice to you would be to go back and watch this morning's test match - then you'd be more qualified to comment about it.
I watched it thanks. I'd say I'm a bit more qualified than you though as you seem to think that this morning's match was a classic rather than the All Blacks giving the Lions a lesson in superiority which frankly is a pathetic judgement. The Lions were outclassed in every department by New Zealand this morning and anyone who didn't see that really should stop letting Sky and Stuart Barnes form their judgements for them.
You really should watch it again, so, and stop thinking that others can't make their own judgements!
Yeah OK, maybe if I rewatch it the Lions will win lmfao!
I thought the first half was absolutely enthralling. NZ too good in the second.
The bang Liam Williams got seemed to be a big turning point. We went from being brilliant to being useless. The bandage being sloppily put on an covering a small part of his eye can't have helped! But presumably he was some way groggy to explain the change in his play.
I thought the Sky commentators were very silent on Owen Farrell's non-performance. His kicking has been slightly off all tour, and on that basis Sexton has to be a serious contender.
Looks like POM will be dropped. Was great in the lineout, but didnt do enough around the park. Not that Warburton did a whole heap when he came on, but he'll be back in and captain.
Itoje a definite starter next week, but other lock totally up for grabs.
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2017, 09:49:42 AM
I thought the first half was absolutely enthralling. NZ too good in the second.
The bang Liam Williams got seemed to be a big turning point. We went from being brilliant to being useless. The bandage being sloppily put on an covering a small part of his eye can't have helped! But presumably he was some way groggy to explain the change in his play.
I thought the Sky commentators were very silent on Owen Farrell's non-performance. His kicking has been slightly off all tour, and on that basis Sexton has to be a serious contender.
Looks like POM will be dropped. Was great in the lineout, but didnt do enough around the park. Not that Warburton did a whole heap when he came on, but he'll be back in and captain.
Itoje a definite starter next week, but other lock totally up for grabs.
Kruis had a shocker. . . will they keep him in next week or is there a chink of light for Henderson?
Quote from: screenexile on June 26, 2017, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2017, 09:49:42 AM
I thought the first half was absolutely enthralling. NZ too good in the second.
The bang Liam Williams got seemed to be a big turning point. We went from being brilliant to being useless. The bandage being sloppily put on an covering a small part of his eye can't have helped! But presumably he was some way groggy to explain the change in his play.
I thought the Sky commentators were very silent on Owen Farrell's non-performance. His kicking has been slightly off all tour, and on that basis Sexton has to be a serious contender.
Looks like POM will be dropped. Was great in the lineout, but didnt do enough around the park. Not that Warburton did a whole heap when he came on, but he'll be back in and captain.
Itoje a definite starter next week, but other lock totally up for grabs.
Kruis had a shocker. . . will they keep him in next week or is there a chink of light for Henderson?
Bench perhaps. Injury allowing surely Lawrs would be a starter
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 26, 2017, 10:56:17 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 26, 2017, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2017, 09:49:42 AM
I thought the first half was absolutely enthralling. NZ too good in the second.
The bang Liam Williams got seemed to be a big turning point. We went from being brilliant to being useless. The bandage being sloppily put on an covering a small part of his eye can't have helped! But presumably he was some way groggy to explain the change in his play.
I thought the Sky commentators were very silent on Owen Farrell's non-performance. His kicking has been slightly off all tour, and on that basis Sexton has to be a serious contender.
Looks like POM will be dropped. Was great in the lineout, but didnt do enough around the park. Not that Warburton did a whole heap when he came on, but he'll be back in and captain.
Itoje a definite starter next week, but other lock totally up for grabs.
Kruis had a shocker. . . will they keep him in next week or is there a chink of light for Henderson?
Bench perhaps. Injury allowing surely Lawrs would be a starter
Sounds like Henderson is making a case for starting on Saturday!!!
Henderson in serious form tonight yet Lawes gets taken off after 50 mins!
Aye good stuff Gatland! :o
Henderson great but picked up a yellow for a tip. Hopefully no citing...
The pick of 4 countries ( at least) can't beat the pick from 1 (at least)
Quote from: gallsman on June 27, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
Henderson great but picked up a yellow for a tip. Hopefully no citing...
It was a very costly YC. He was excellent up to that point in fairness to him.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 27, 2017, 10:48:15 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 27, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
Henderson great but picked up a yellow for a tip. Hopefully no citing...
It was a very costly YC. He was excellent up to that point in fairness to him.
He'll do well to escape a citing I can't see it happening.
PS. The front row played the full 80 minutes?? f**k off Gatland!
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2017, 10:46:28 AM
The pick of 4 countries ( at least) can't beat the pick from 1 (at least)
Waaaaaahayyyyyyyyyy
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2017, 11:00:09 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2017, 10:46:28 AM
The pick of 4 countries ( at least) can't beat the pick from 1 (at least)
Waaaaaahayyyyyyyyyy
Really, how many Hurricanes are NZ nationals?
BTW it was Lions second string forced to play whole game wi5h 1sub as the geographic 6 sat on 5)3 bench.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2017, 11:00:09 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 27, 2017, 10:46:28 AM
The pick of 4 countries ( at least) can't beat the pick from 1 (at least)
Waaaaaahayyyyyyyyyy
was talking about the all blacks
If the Lions lose that last two tests they will finish the tour with more losses than wins overall (4 wins, 1 draw, 5 losses)
Thats Hurricanes special one off jersey must be the worst jersey i have ever seen,
Thoughts on what Gatland did abut the subs in the hurricanes game and his selection for the 2nd test?
Have to say I think he's an awful p***k
Quote from: gawa316 on June 29, 2017, 04:43:32 AM
Thoughts on what Gatland did abut the subs in the hurricanes game and his selection for the 2nd test?
Have to say I think he's an awful p***k
In fairness to him, I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place. However, not using his bench ended up costing the winning of the game.
He was vilified four years ago dropping O'Driscoll and subsequently vindicated. Should have had the courage of his convictions to use the lads after calling them up.
Sexton, Itoje and Warburton all in. Te'o drops to bench, O'Mahony and Kruis out of the squad.
Obviously biased but very, very harsh on O'Mahony in my opinion
Quote from: gallsman on June 29, 2017, 06:16:52 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on June 29, 2017, 04:43:32 AM
Thoughts on what Gatland did abut the subs in the hurricanes game and his selection for the 2nd test?
Have to say I think he's an awful p***k
In fairness to him, I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place. However, not using his bench ended up costing the winning of the game.
He was vilified four years ago dropping O'Driscoll and subsequently vindicated. Should have had the courage of his convictions to use the lads after calling them up.
The rock and the hard place were all of his own doing. In this day and age what difference would it have made for a backup player to have flown from Argentina to NZ rather than someone from Australia, a few more hours on a plane.
Yes, he made one mistake then didn't have the balls to go through with it when he needed to. I'm sure those lads called up feel like the proverbial spare pricks at a wedding.
Quote from: gallsman on June 29, 2017, 08:14:44 AM
Sexton, Itoje and Warburton all in. Te'o drops to bench, O'Mahony and Kruis out of the squad.
Obviously biased but very, very harsh on O'Mahony in my opinion
Agree very harsh on O'Mahony and IMO AW Jones is very very lucky to be on the 23 never mind starting, in the first test I thought he was very poor. Not sure either on Sexton/Farrell at 10/12, they offered very little in the half hour they had at the end of the game the other day
Quote from: gallsman on June 29, 2017, 06:16:52 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on June 29, 2017, 04:43:32 AM
Thoughts on what Gatland did abut the subs in the hurricanes game and his selection for the 2nd test?
Have to say I think he's an awful p***k
In fairness to him, I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place. However, not using his bench ended up costing the winning of the game.
He was vilified four years ago dropping O'Driscoll and subsequently vindicated. Should have had the courage of his convictions to use the lads after calling them up.
Vindicated?? I have said it before the Lions would have lost the series to Australia if Beale hadnt slipped the very same Australia team England then smashed 3-0 in Oz. Gatland is a poor coach his record against the southern hemisphere whilst Welsh boss is something ridiculous like won 1 lost 30 so how the feck did someone decide he was ever the best man for the job!!!!!!!!
They lost the second test. He made changes. They won the third. Vindication.
On Sky last night Johnny Wilkinson said he thought Ben Te'o was the Lions most important player...........now he is dropped.
Quote from: gallsman on June 29, 2017, 10:54:15 AM
They lost the second test. He made changes. They won the third. Vindication.
I think the point is they should have cruised the series instead of scraping the first match and losing the second.
I double checked Gatlands record against the big 3 for a laugh played 36 won 3 lost 33. Desperate stuff compared to the other home nations records over the same period (althogh not great about 3/4 times better!!)
Scotland played 17 won 4 lost 13
England played 32 won 10 drawn 1 lost 21
Ireland played 24 won 7 drawn 1 lost 16
Quote from: The Trap on June 29, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
On Sky last night Johnny Wilkinson said he thought Ben Te'o was the Lions most important player...........now he is dropped.
Te'o is good at what he does ie direct and into contact with a solid defence (perfect for Gatland) unfortunatley he suffers from tunnel vision and is incapable of seeing an oppotunity open up around him.
Like the Ryder cup I can't get excited by the Lions.
Oh shit it's on!!
Straight red for Sonny Bill after 25 mins with sides level at 3 all
Game ot over tho...talk is cheap bht it takes money to buy hat dags!
Dreadful attempt at a tackle, deserved to go
Quote from: gerrykeegan on July 01, 2017, 09:07:58 AM
Dreadful attempt at a tackle, deserved to go
He didn't make any attempt, just dropped the shoulder into the man's head. He can't have any argument.
Sonny Bill may be looking for Jim Gavin's number 🤔
Pathetic second half performance.
Lions have been poor since the sending off they don't seem to know what to do!!!
You would hope they can work this out!
Embarrassing performance for a team with an extra man. The discipline has been absolutely shocking.
Some great pressure kicking from Farrell there - not.
If nothing more this tour is fully exposing the fella it's about that lad.
Murray on the other hand is a proper player..
Quote from: Syferus on July 01, 2017, 10:03:30 AM
Some great pressure kicking from Farrell there - not.
If nothing more this tour is fully exposing the fella it's about that lad.
LOL.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 01, 2017, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 01, 2017, 10:03:30 AM
Some great pressure kicking from Farrell there - not.
If nothing more this tour is fully exposing the fella it's about that lad.
LOL.
Are you watching the same match as everyone else, Tony? They're just running at Farrell all day and he shanked the Fallatau conversion as badly as a schoolboy. A world-class player would have the Lions leading here.
No one tell the tubes who thinks the Lions don't matter.
They did their best to lose it but eventually came good fair play!
Beat a team by 3 playing against a team with 14 for 55mins, other way round there been 40 in it. Embarrassing they only won it by 3 to be honest. Listening to the RTE radio 1 you think they won the world cup lol
Quote from: Syferus on July 01, 2017, 10:26:01 AM
No one tell the tubes who thinks the Lions don't matter.
Lmfao... It doesn't take much to get you talking rubbish again. Running off at the mouth after scraping through against 14 men for 3/4 of the match ::). No-one said the Lions don't matter, most people said they don't matter as much to them as their national team. Only a tube/fanboy would celebrate a Lions victory in NZ more than an Irish/Welsh/English/Scottish one. Don't get those Farrell and Faletau posters sticky now!
Beating a team that hasn't lost at home in 47 matches is no bad achievement they won the match and that's all that was needed. 2 tries to 0 isn't bad either!
Tried their best to f**k that up. Came good last 15m. Hard to see anything bother than a NZ win next week.
Seemed to be quite a bit of mouthiness at the end there. Don't think poking the bear is advisable. Sinckler looks to be a bit of a hot head. It took a few of the lads to hold him back from losing the penalty he'd won
Thought Murray and O'Brien were absolutely magnificent from the Irish lads.
There be 20 plus in it next week, The only game of rugby I have ever seen a 14 man team win was Ireland against South Africa last year. There's a 95% win rate for teams playing against 14 men so I wouldn't poke the bear as you would say.
Quote from: gallsman on July 01, 2017, 10:40:02 AM
Seemed to be quite a bit of mouthiness at the end there. Don't think poking the bear is advisable. Sinckler looks to be a bit of a hot head. It took a few of the lads to hold him back from losing the penalty he'd won
Thought Murray and O'Brien were absolutely magnificent from the Irish lads.
Looked like it was about to kick off at the end but calmed down quickly fortunately.
Quote from: gallsman on July 01, 2017, 10:40:02 AM
Seemed to be quite a bit of mouthiness at the end there. Don't think poking the bear is advisable. Sinckler looks to be a bit of a hot head. It took a few of the lads to hold him back from losing the penalty he'd won
Thought Murray and O'Brien were absolutely magnificent from the Irish lads.
Sinckler did well when he came on though, George was excellent. Murray and O'Brien very good but gave away a few penalties each as well. Thought Sexton did well too with limited ball and Vunipola shouldn't start the next day!
Winning in NZ pokes the bear a lot more than fücking handbags at the end. Assuming there's a bear in the first place is the problem.
NZ are mortal and we've seen that a few times over the last year.
Beating 14 men with a team picked from 5 or 6 different countries?
Or you could look at it as throwing together a team from the British Isles (or North West European Archipelago for the snowflakes), getting them to gel socially as well as professionally, coaching them and getting them tactically to perform in a few weeks to beat an All Black's side. No mean feat really.
The Sky fanboys in commentary would annoy you tho. All Black's are still better and will show it next week imo.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2017, 12:06:37 PM
The Sky fanboys in commentary would annoy you tho. All Black's are still better and will show it next week imo.
Watched the game with kiwi commentary on TSN. Much more enjoyable!
NZ are not the team of a few years back but I still fancy them to win 3rd test .
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
Feel emotional.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
top class old boy top class 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 01, 2017, 01:01:43 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 01, 2017, 12:47:34 PM
Feel emotional.
Tyrone 03, 05, 08; Lions 17.
I'm nearly as excited as that time the combined Northern Ireland and Ireland rugby team beat a reserve New Zealand team in a pre season friendly.
I'd rather Farrell hitting the kicks than Sexton though. I heard the commentator saying that the last few minutes were the biggest of these players careers? Surely, a big six nations decider or world cup game is more important than when you win as part of an amalgamation of 4 of the top 7 teams in the world against the number 1?
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
You forgot the main man. Sean O'Brien.
As for the win. Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 01, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
You forgot the main man. Sean O'Brien.
As for the win. Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
How do you know?
It would have been a rout only for the amount of penalties the Lions gave up ij the second half! see how that works?
Quote from: stew on July 01, 2017, 05:00:05 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 01, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
You forgot the main man. Sean O'Brien.
As for the win. Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
How do you know?
It would have been a rout only for the amount of penalties the Lions gave up ij the second half! see how that works?
Do you think they would have won? I'm very happy they won I'm just being realistic. I wouldn't be that confident of winning next week but hop I am wrong
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 01, 2017, 04:46:53 PM
I'd rather Farrell hitting the kicks than Sexton though. I heard the commentator saying that the last few minutes were the biggest of these players careers? Surely, a big six nations decider or world cup game is more important than when you win as part of an amalgamation of 4 of the top 7 teams in the world against the number 1?
It's Sky Sports in fairness. Everything they show is THE BEST IN THE WORLD.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 01, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
I don't understand that thinking. So what? He did get sent off.
SBW comes as a package - his excellent off loads are one aspect of that; his indiscipline is another. The All Blacks chose to use that package by picking him and it went to their advantage last week with a win - this week it backfired spectacularly. His sending off is the All Blacks' problem, not that of the Lions.
Have to say I'm just glad the ref had the nads to issue the red - I thought Jaco Peyper (sp?) was trying to influence him to issue a yellow in the discussion and I also thought the TV official was doing likewise.
How penalties has Vunipola given away in the 2 tests?
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2017, 01:35:44 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 01, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
I don't understand that thinking. So what? He did get sent off.
SBW comes as a package - his excellent off loads are one aspect of that; his indiscipline is another. The All Blacks chose to use that package by picking him and it went to their advantage last week with a win - this week it backfired spectacularly. His sending off is the All Blacks' problem, not that of the Lions.
Have to say I'm just glad the ref had the nads to issue the red - I thought Jaco Peyper (sp?) was trying to influence him to issue a yellow in the discussion and I also thought the TV official was doing likewise.
It's an opinion and I happen to think he correct one. The ABs have proven over and over again that when they play in NZ with 15 players they win. Regardless he did get sent off and the lions did win.
Now, any word on Sean O'Brien?
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
It's an opinion and I happen to think he correct one. The ABs have proven over and over again that when they play in NZ with 15 players they win. Regardless he did get sent off and the lions did win.
The ABs did have fifteen players - the fact that they lost one is down to the player they entrusted with the job. Their call, which proved a serious misjudgment. They fell down.
I get a sense you wouldn't be as keen to highlight an 'if' where the shoe was on the other foot.
Like I said, I'm just glad the ref didn't bottle the call as Roman Poite did in Pretoria in the pivotal second test in 2009 when Burger (sp?) gouged Luke Fitzgerald in the opening minutes in front of the line judge.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
Now, any word on Sean O'Brien?
A colossus.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2017, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
It's an opinion and I happen to think he correct one. The ABs have proven over and over again that when they play in NZ with 15 players they win. Regardless he did get sent off and the lions did win.
The ABs did have fifteen players - the fact that they lost one is down to the player they entrusted with the job. Their call, which proved a serious misjudgment. They fell down.
I get a sense you wouldn't be as keen to highlight an 'if' where the shoe was on the other foot.
Like I said, I'm just glad the ref didn't bottle the call as Roman Poite did in Pretoria in the pivotal second test in 2009 when Burger (sp?) gouged Luke Fitzgerald in the opening minutes in front of the line judge.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2017, 08:53:00 AM
Now, any word on Sean O'Brien?
A colossus.
The all blacks lost a man after 25 mins and played the majority of the game with 14 men.
I have highlighted ifs for teams I support in the past.
SOB is indeed a colossus but he was having a hearing today due to being cited. Any word on that
It's all good. He wasn't banned.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2017, 01:35:44 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 01, 2017, 04:57:32 PM
Let's not kid ourselves. If SBW doesn't get sent off the lions don't win
I don't understand that thinking. So what? He did get sent off.
SBW comes as a package - his excellent off loads are one aspect of that; his indiscipline is another. The All Blacks chose to use that package by picking him and it went to their advantage last week with a win - this week it backfired spectacularly. His sending off is the All Blacks' problem, not that of the Lions.
Have to say I'm just glad the ref had the nads to issue the red - I thought Jaco Peyper (sp?) was trying to influence him to issue a yellow in the discussion and I also thought the TV official was doing likewise.
Spot on. Game was well refereed. Discipline is a key part of the game. AB indiscipline cost them a player. BIL indiscipline cost them a shed load of points
Whos depending on the Lions winning next week 15 on 15, saying we over the moon beating 14 men, it been a disgrace if they didnt win,
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
Whos depending on the Lions winning next week 15 on 15, saying we over the moon beating 14 men, it been a disgrace if they didnt win,
I would guess the failure to get any advantage out of the extra man in the second quarter and the tactical and disciplinary implosion in the third will be the focus of the preparation this week.
But they got there in the end this week and whilst it took a while to come it is surely a good thing?
Romain Poite the ref for next week, most of the Lions will be used to him.
Sean O'Brien thankfully no punishment post-citing.
I didn't think there was enough there for O'Brien's indiscretion to be cited.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
Whos depending on the Lions winning next week 15 on 15, saying we over the moon beating 14 men, it been a disgrace if they didnt win,
Am I right in saying the first try was scored when it was 14v14?
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2017, 11:15:45 PM
I didn't think there was enough there for O'Brien's indiscretion to be cited.
It was a caught on camera and the NZ lad had to go for a HIA, and didn't return. Not too often the citing commissioner gets over-ruled, but thankfully this was one of them.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
What tosh, the All Blacks will wipe them out with 15 men.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 03, 2017, 09:46:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 01, 2017, 12:23:34 PM
An incredible morning of high drama that shows exactly why a British Lions test series is the pinnacle of rugby union football.
A Lions tour is all about finding those men of officer class that will stand up in a situation of adversity and drive the troops on to victory.
Stand up Officer Faletau, Officer Murray, Officer Farrell, Officer Sexton, Officer Williams, Officer George, Officer Watson, Officer Sinckler and Captain Warburton.
Last week some know-nothings said there was a huge gulf in class between the teams.
That's why they're know-nothings.
As with last week, we played the sparkling attacking rugby, we showed the inventiveness and flair. We played the game as it is meant to be played, not them.
It was a performance that is as proud and defiant a Wellington monument as anything that stands just off Chesterfield Avenue in Dublin's Phoenix Park.
That performance was for Sir Ian McGeechan, a true Lions legend and one of nature's gentlemen. Get well soon, Sir Ian.
Those who anything about history know that the British Lions have a 100% record in test series in New Zealand in which the latter two digits are 1 and 7. The weight of history is with us.
The prospect of Eden Park next Saturday is now a truly tantalising one.
What tosh, the All Blacks will wipe them out with 15 men.
Christ I have read some crap on this board over the years but this is up there with the best of it.
Sounds like the sh*t that Sky have Greenwood and Quinnell spouting before each of the games, sickening empty promo talk.
Think he's on the wind lads and yous took the bait!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 09:58:31 AM
Think he's on the wind lads and yous took the bait!
Yeah that may be the case, but my wider point is that Sky are sickening my happiness with the over hype of it all.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 03, 2017, 10:17:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 09:58:31 AM
Think he's on the wind lads and yous took the bait!
Yeah that may be the case, but my wider point is that Sky are sickening my happiness with the over hype of it all.
Maybe dont turn on Sky Sports or watch the rugby if it is sickening your happiness - first world problems
Great catch Sid....surprised anyone fell for it mind
Its not just rugby lads. Jeez the hype around top 4 in the premiership - tosh!!
Take it for what it is lads.
Sky have been doing it for 25 years now so it is nothing new.
How I wish our own national broadcaster would try to sell our own games rather than spend time telling everyone how shite the games are or who should get suspended this week
Quote from: Taylor on July 03, 2017, 10:25:42 AM
Take it for what it is lads.
Sky have been doing it for 25 years now so it is nothing new.
How I wish our own national broadcaster would try to sell our own games rather than spend time telling everyone how shite the games are or who should get suspended this week
+1 and a few decent camera angles!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 10:30:30 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 03, 2017, 10:25:42 AM
Take it for what it is lads.
Sky have been doing it for 25 years now so it is nothing new.
How I wish our own national broadcaster would try to sell our own games rather than spend time telling everyone how shite the games are or who should get suspended this week
+1 and a few decent camera angles!!
Ah here, you don't want to be doing that. That'll take away from the suspense of wondering where the ball went when watching the hurling especially if theres a block down and the cameraman didn't spot it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/god-help-us-all-if-the-lions-actually-win-next-saturday-1.3141198
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 11:54:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/god-help-us-all-if-the-lions-actually-win-next-saturday-1.3141198
Not a snowball's chance in hell. The all-blacks were instructed to lose last weekend so as to keep the public interest up and maximise revenues for the marketeers.
Jordie Barrett expected to start at FB on Saturday. Could end up goal kicking too ahead of Beauden.
Lions out daytripping and pinting 4 days before the biggest game they could possibly have had.
Who thought that would be a good idea in any shape or form?
NZ by at least 15pts
Quote from: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
Lions out daytripping and pinting 4 days before the biggest game they could possibly have had.
Who thought that would be a good idea in any shape or form?
NZ by at least 15pts
You'd know more about a fish supper!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 05, 2017, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
Lions out daytripping and pinting 4 days before the biggest game they could possibly have had.
Who thought that would be a good idea in any shape or form?
NZ by at least 15pts
You'd know more about a fish supper!
Probably would.
But still don't think drinking 4 days before a big game is advisable
Quote from: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 10:46:34 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 05, 2017, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
Lions out daytripping and pinting 4 days before the biggest game they could possibly have had.
Who thought that would be a good idea in any shape or form?
NZ by at least 15pts
You'd know more about a fish supper!
Probably would.
But still don't think drinking 4 days before a big game is advisable
Who's drinking? Photos to confirm?
Quote from: Orior on July 03, 2017, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 11:54:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/god-help-us-all-if-the-lions-actually-win-next-saturday-1.3141198
Not a snowball's chance in hell. The all-blacks were instructed to lose last weekend so as to keep the public interest up and maximise revenues for the marketeers.
Indeed they were - just like Kilkenny were instructed to lose to Wexford in a similarly Sky Sports-broadcast match so the GAA could generate a bit of interest and profit from the resulting bumper, 60k plus crowd at the Leinster hurling final.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 05, 2017, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 05, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
Lions out daytripping and pinting 4 days before the biggest game they could possibly have had.
Who thought that would be a good idea in any shape or form?
NZ by at least 15pts
You'd know more about a fish supper!
Being the know all you are I assumed you would already know this and wouldn't need photos.
Widely available online
Ben Teo'o sipping a beer is all I saw.
As far as I know PL footballers and AFL players have a 4 day drink ban pre games.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 05, 2017, 11:23:12 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 03, 2017, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 03, 2017, 11:54:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/god-help-us-all-if-the-lions-actually-win-next-saturday-1.3141198
Not a snowball's chance in hell. The all-blacks were instructed to lose last weekend so as to keep the public interest up and maximise revenues for the marketeers.
Indeed they were - just like Kilkenny were instructed to lose to Wexford in a similarly Sky Sports-broadcast match so the GAA could generate a bit of interest and profit from the resulting bumper, 60k plus crowd at the Leinster hurling final.
Not forgetting the teams who Sky bribed to let Leicester win the EPL.
Unchanged team and subs for Saturday. Thought McGrath might get in ahead of Vunipola
Quote from: Hound on July 05, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Unchanged team and subs for Saturday. Thought McGrath might get in ahead of Vunipola
He should have.
Vunipola was very poor last day out and might have offered a bit of impact off the bench.
Quote from: Hound on July 05, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Unchanged team and subs for Saturday. Thought McGrath might get in ahead of Vunipola
Immortality beckons for a number of Irishmen tomorrow . The Lions are massive underdogs but can do it .
Quote from: ashman on July 07, 2017, 09:18:45 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 05, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Unchanged team and subs for Saturday. Thought McGrath might get in ahead of Vunipola
Immortality beckons for a number of Irishmen tomorrow . The Lions are massive underdogs but can do it .
::)
As much as this is a big game its aint at the level of a quarter / semi / final world cup game even though the media is trying to convince you different, I can name every world cup winner and losing finalist, probably semi`s to, i couldn't name Lions results pre 1993 and some since wouldn't be 100 % sure either.
The big bad bear to turn up, New Zealand to win by 15-20 even with a inexperienced back line and a team not an inch on their 2015 world cup team
Britain & Ireland expects. Go Lions.
Owen Farrell having an absolute stinker ffs
Not happy with yellow for that. It was poorly timed, no intent to hurt the player.
Do the Lions have what it takes? Are they Limerick or Offaly?
Rhys Webb had a chance to put Cj Stander away but held on to the ball and got tackled. It could have cost the Lions the match.
Great time game but very poor handling tonight, All-Blacks left 3 tries out there plus some woeful kicking, dont see the difference between Kaino yellow and the forearm from O`Brien resulting in nothing last week
Big result for Gatland.
Furlong missed in the final 10 minutes.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2017, 10:35:00 AM
,dont see the difference between Kaino yellow and the forearm from O`Brien resulting in nothing last week
The obvious difference was visibility, Kaino's was clear enough.
The video evidence was not clear against O'Brien, that's why he got off, he couldn't be done on a presumption that he must have done something bad.
I'm glad I woke up for the game, though I dozed off a few times, but in the end the doughty immortal spirit of the Lions made for a gripping finale.
No doubt both teams feel the disappointment of not having won the series, and there is a certain hollow feeling to the thing. But it is great to see two teams, who have given everything and have basically killed each other for three weeks, mixing together at the end. There's a certain sporting romance to that which is difficult to imagine in soccer.
Ref chickened out of the penalty call at the end, never seen a few change his mind twice before
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Ref chickened out of the penalty call at the end, never seen a few change his mind twice before
His choice of language "we've got a deal" didn't sound good.
Quote from: Kilkevan on July 08, 2017, 11:16:01 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Ref chickened out of the penalty call at the end, never seen a few change his mind twice before
His choice of language "we've got a deal" didn't sound good.
Poor decision at the end and also for yellow card. Kaino arm was already in position for the tackle with minimal intent but he sees the bin. Can you imagine the uproar from SKY if them 2 calls had went against the Lions!! In saying that, there was no guarantee that Barrett would have scored it - his younger brother looks the real deal however. SKY would sicken your enjoyment sometimes - the hype machine was on full power this morning
Poor refereeing decisions against the all blacks and both at crucial times. Farrell should have went to the corner at the end. What good was a drawn series?
A truly epic finale to a series that will live forever in history.
An hour and a half after the match ended and I'm still shaking.
Every bit of hype that surrounded this series was justified and then some.
The two greatest teams in world rugby threw everything, more than everything, at each other and still couldn't be separated.
We saw the very pinnacle of the game of rugby football today.
This, as Jim Telfer once said, was the British Lions' Everest. Today they are Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. They have arrived at the summit hand in hand with the New Zealanders. And half the DHL Cup can be couriered back home to sit alongside the Tom Richards Cup won in 2013.
My how this team and squad has grown. Credit to Gatty for creating a wonderful spirit in the camp. There were no Englishmen, Irishmen, Welshmen or Scotchmen out there today. There were only Lions and they were our Lions. I cheered as much for the brilliant Jonathan Davies, the indomitable Anthony Watson, the force of nature that is Maro Itoje and the hapless turned clutch Owen Farrell as I did for Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray or Sean O'Brien.
The great sporting spectacles always carry the possibility of a draw. The Charity Shield (it'll always be the Charity Shield) the Ashes, the Ryder Cup, fixed world title boxing fights, and, of course, a British Lions test series.
This series has been the sporting equivalent of The Italian Job.
A true classic where our British boys went abroad to bring home the prize against the odds. An exhilarating plot which built up to an incredible climax which was cut just as we were on the verge of finding out who would prevail.
It feels incredibly frustrating right now after three titanic tests, but I guess this is how it is meant to be.
And in time, as with the 1968 classic, we'll come to appreciate the unconventional beauty of the ending.
We'll never know what would have happened had it gone on, and that's the genius of it.
This series is about the result, of course it is, but its also about the legacy left behind. The legacy of courage, skill, flair and refusal to give in, ever. And that legacy will be a very rich one.
This team has well and truly put the pride in "pride of Lions".
We are privileged to have witnessed this tour and these test matches.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 08, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
A truly epic finale to a series that will live forever in history.
An hour and a half after the match ended and I'm still shaking.
Every bit of hype that surrounded this series was justified and then some.
The two greatest teams in world rugby threw everything, more than everything, at each other and still couldn't be separated.
We saw the very pinnacle of the game of rugby football today.
This, as Jim Telfer once said, was the British Lions' Everest. Today they are Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. They have arrived at the summit hand in hand with the New Zealanders. And half the DHL Cup can be couriered back home to sit alongside the Tom Richards Cup won in 2013.
My how this team and squad has grown. Credit to Gatty for creating a wonderful spirit in the camp. There were no Englishmen, Irishmen, Welshmen or Scotchmen out there today. There were only Lions and they were our Lions. I cheered as much for the brilliant Jonathan Davies, the indomitable Anthony Watson, the force of nature that is Maro Itoje and the hapless turned clutch Owen Farrell as I did for Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray or Sean O'Brien.
The great sporting spectacles always carry the possibility of a draw. The Charity Shield (it'll always be the Charity Shield) the Ashes, the Ryder Cup, fixed world title boxing fights, and, of course, a British Lions test series.
This series has been the sporting equivalent of The Italian Job.
A true classic where our British boys went abroad to bring home the prize against the odds. An exhilarating plot which built up to an incredible climax which was cut just as we were on the verge of finding out who would prevail.
It feels incredibly frustrating right now after three titanic tests, but I guess this is how it is meant to be.
And in time, as with the 1968 classic, we'll come to appreciate the unconventional beauty of the ending.
We'll never know what would have happened had it gone on, and that's the genius of it.
This series is about the result, of course it is, but its also about the legacy left behind. The legacy of courage, skill, flair and refusal to give in, ever. And that legacy will be a very rich one.
This team has well and truly put the pride in "pride of Lions".
We are privileged to have witnessed this tour and these test matches.
Eh?
Fair play to you Sid congrats my man. You'll take a few beers to celebrate tonight?
That must have upset a few here anyways. Lolz.
Brevity. Hugely underrated
Quote from: Syferus on July 08, 2017, 01:05:05 PM
That must have upset a few here anyways. Lolz.
Nah... I wouldn't think so... Didn't see anyone on here supporting against the Lions, just the majority aren't fanboys with posters of Itoje on their bedroom walls and will happily go back to supporting the bigger picture, their national team, whilst the drooling sychophants who like to pretend that Lions' tours are bigger than the World Cup will retreat back to their caves for the next four years.
Lolz lolz.
Quote from: square_ball on July 08, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
Fair play to you Sid congrats my man. You'll take a few beers to celebrate tonight?
You do realise that this is Sid?
(http://noisetosignal.org/files/alfbath.jpeg)
Quote from: Main Street on July 08, 2017, 01:31:26 PM
Quote from: square_ball on July 08, 2017, 01:00:24 PM
Fair play to you Sid congrats my man. You'll take a few beers to celebrate tonight?
You do realise that this is Sid?
(http://noisetosignal.org/files/alfbath.jpeg)
Alf!
That was some game of rugby this morning. Lions rode their luck at times with a few uncharacteristic spillages from the ABs. After a woeful start, Farl showed some nerve to land those penalties
I'm curious to know how big rugby fans feel about the lions tours in general. For me I think it's a load of nonsense. I'm not anti English, Welsh or Scottish but I just couldn't bring myself to be a fan of this team. If it was 4 complete underdogs combining to play the far and away best team in the world I might feel differently but that is simple not the case. England are Ireland are ranked in the top 4 with Wales and Scotland not far behind. If we think of a GAA equivalent it would be something like Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone and Cork amalgamating to play the dubs. If they could only draw with the dubs in a 3 game series, it would be an embarassment
That's what I would also think Hoes
Quote from: sid waddell on July 08, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
A truly epic finale to a series that will live forever in history.
An hour and a half after the match ended and I'm still shaking.
Every bit of hype that surrounded this series was justified and then some.
The two greatest teams in world rugby threw everything, more than everything, at each other and still couldn't be separated.
We saw the very pinnacle of the game of rugby football today.
This, as Jim Telfer once said, was the British Lions' Everest. Today they are Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. They have arrived at the summit hand in hand with the New Zealanders. And half the DHL Cup can be couriered back home to sit alongside the Tom Richards Cup won in 2013.
My how this team and squad has grown. Credit to Gatty for creating a wonderful spirit in the camp. There were no Englishmen, Irishmen, Welshmen or Scotchmen out there today. There were only Lions and they were our Lions. I cheered as much for the brilliant Jonathan Davies, the indomitable Anthony Watson, the force of nature that is Maro Itoje and the hapless turned clutch Owen Farrell as I did for Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray or Sean O'Brien.
The great sporting spectacles always carry the possibility of a draw. The Charity Shield (it'll always be the Charity Shield) the Ashes, the Ryder Cup, fixed world title boxing fights, and, of course, a British Lions test series.
This series has been the sporting equivalent of The Italian Job.
A true classic where our British boys went abroad to bring home the prize against the odds. An exhilarating plot which built up to an incredible climax which was cut just as we were on the verge of finding out who would prevail.
It feels incredibly frustrating right now after three titanic tests, but I guess this is how it is meant to be.
And in time, as with the 1968 classic, we'll come to appreciate the unconventional beauty of the ending.
We'll never know what would have happened had it gone on, and that's the genius of it.
This series is about the result, of course it is, but its also about the legacy left behind. The legacy of courage, skill, flair and refusal to give in, ever. And that legacy will be a very rich one.
This team has well and truly put the pride in "pride of Lions".
We are privileged to have witnessed this tour and these test matches.
Spot on Sid.
British and Irish till I die.
british and irish, u sure u a meath man and not from northern ireland. The game was a tight and exciting game abit like derry and mayo last week but like last week the standard of finishing. control etc was very poor in dry conditions, if D Carter was still playing NZ won handy previous game too.Take in the fact that B Smith, D Coles, SBW, NMS, R Loane, R Crotty were missing so its not even the strongest all blacks team currently they had The all-blacks are in transition but their back line will get all the experience it needs in the next 2 yrs to made another tilt at the world cup
forgot it was on tbh
the GAA cute hoors love the draw.
when's the replay?
Our British boys lol
I have to say there was a lump in my throat when the heroic Britain and Ireland captain scorned the easy option of going for a win with the last penalty and, scoffing in the face of mediocrity, called up the intrepid Owen Farrell, beloved all over Britain-Ireland, to take the game by the scruff of the scrotum and go all-out for the draw.
I nearly burst with pride for our sister islands when it sailed over and the daring draw was all but assured. It warms the cockles of the heart to see gallantry so richly rewarded and doubly so when the achievement is wrought by lads from your own archipelago.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 08, 2017, 11:56:04 AM
A truly epic finale to a series that will live forever in history.
An hour and a half after the match ended and I'm still shaking.
Every bit of hype that surrounded this series was justified and then some.
The two greatest teams in world rugby threw everything, more than everything, at each other and still couldn't be separated.
We saw the very pinnacle of the game of rugby football today.
This, as Jim Telfer once said, was the British Lions' Everest. Today they are Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. They have arrived at the summit hand in hand with the New Zealanders. And half the DHL Cup can be couriered back home to sit alongside the Tom Richards Cup won in 2013.
My how this team and squad has grown. Credit to Gatty for creating a wonderful spirit in the camp. There were no Englishmen, Irishmen, Welshmen or Scotchmen out there today. There were only Lions and they were our Lions. I cheered as much for the brilliant Jonathan Davies, the indomitable Anthony Watson, the force of nature that is Maro Itoje and the hapless turned clutch Owen Farrell as I did for Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray or Sean O'Brien.
The great sporting spectacles always carry the possibility of a draw. The Charity Shield (it'll always be the Charity Shield) the Ashes, the Ryder Cup, fixed world title boxing fights, and, of course, a British Lions test series.
This series has been the sporting equivalent of The Italian Job.
A true classic where our British boys went abroad to bring home the prize against the odds. An exhilarating plot which built up to an incredible climax which was cut just as we were on the verge of finding out who would prevail.
It feels incredibly frustrating right now after three titanic tests, but I guess this is how it is meant to be.
And in time, as with the 1968 classic, we'll come to appreciate the unconventional beauty of the ending.
We'll never know what would have happened had it gone on, and that's the genius of it.
This series is about the result, of course it is, but its also about the legacy left behind. The legacy of courage, skill, flair and refusal to give in, ever. And that legacy will be a very rich one.
This team has well and truly put the pride in "pride of Lions".
We are privileged to have witnessed this tour and these test matches.
[/quote
Sid, you are not wise. Have you feck all to do on a Saturday than write that load of crap. Still shaking 90 minutes after the game LOL !!!
The Lions would have been wiped out like a massacre if Dan Carter was still about - the AB's have some strength in depth when you consider who was missing.
Remember this is a county with similar population to Ireland, similar weather, shed loads of sheep but legendary rugby players - all credit to them that they are world best !!
How are some of you so lacking in self awareness that you can't tell an obvious WUM from a genuine poster?
Quote from: Syferus on July 08, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
How are some of you so lacking in self awareness that you can't tell an obvious WUM from a genuine poster?
In fairness I'm not sure whether ur a WUM or not..
It's needed to spell it out more clearly as Sid being 'akin to Alf Garnet' didn't register.
Sid's spoofing. Sid's post are a spoof. A spoofer is our Sid and a good one at that.
To be fair in the varied pantheon of WUM's he's a fairly good one. Usually all it takes on here is to say how much you love the queen or how great the DUP are, using the auspices of the Lions to get a rise out of someone is a new one on me.
Surely she's just copied & pasted a genuine report from somewhere like the Mail, Sky Sports or somewhere? If not that's like O'Neill like dedication to the cause. Maith thu
I don't mind saying it - I love the British Lions.
And as an Irish Republican who would like Amhran na bhFiann to be played before all Ireland matches, I have no problem saying that I think God Save The Queen should be played before British Lions matches - let's face it - the team represents the British Isles.
It's only fair if we want to impose our cultural supremacy on themmuns as regards flags and anthems in a potential united Ireland that we allow the mainland to sometimes impose its cultural supremacy on us when the boot is on the other foot.
But the great thing about the Lions is its inclusiveness - there's something for everybody - well, maybe not Scotch rugby at the moment.
Ireland can't say it isn't recognised in the colours - the tops of the players' socks firmly demonstrate that.
As somebody whose political persuasion is firmly to the left, I take inspiration from knowing that a successful Lions tour is a bit like a microcosm of a successful socialist society - one for all, and all for one goal, not one individual. Everybody must pull together. The camp cannot be a happy one unless the weakest feel part of it.
However those on the right can take solace from the essential imperial, civilising mission ethos that Lions tours still have as we attempt to metaphorically put the boot on the throat of the colonies.
I can take solace that the famous 1974 tour gave the black majority in South Africa a team to support against the hated white oppressor. Our thrashing of the Springboks that year brought great joy to the oppressed in that country and was the first shot against apartheid, I believe.
Conversely, those of the opposite political persuasion to me can take solace that that tour strengthened friendships with the Afrikaaner oppressor and gave support to the regime there.
In the famous coaching partnership of Sir Ian McGeechan and Jim Telfer, you had divergent political opinions too.
Telfs is a hard as nails socialist from the Borders who famously stated both that he hated Margaret Thatcher, and that after an afternoon at Twickenham, every Scot would be a fanatical supporter of independence, while the Geech is on record as being a fervent supporter of the Union.
The greatest Lions coach of all, Carwyn James, coach to the 1971 history makers in New Zealand, was a Plaid Cymru separatist.
I think it's tremendous that all these divergent, multi-cultural backgrounds can come together in such harmony and give us such great sport and a rallying cause to unite these islands for a few short weeks.
Roll on South Africa 2021.
Jolly good Sidney old chap, jolly good, marvellous effort, please do carry on ........ ;D
Us Irish like getting recognised by the Brits too much.
When Ken catches the ball, it's going backwards from the original point of contact, Ken was onside.
When the Lion goes up to catch the ball the AB nr 8 makes a feeble attempt to disguise a mid-air assault on the Lion.
(https://i.gyazo.com/8931dfd16f89b2216f2bda47e0e91651.gif)
Garland has quit. Not too impressed with Sean O'Brien either.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 17, 2017, 08:33:13 PM
Garland has quit. Not too impressed with Sean O'Brien either.
Was surprised O'Brien had the balls to dare to criticise the lad who has had it in for Irish players for the last 17 years or so. Went up in my estimation. I don't think many in Ireland will be sad to see the back of Gatland.
Quote from: Syferus on October 18, 2017, 03:06:02 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 17, 2017, 08:33:13 PM
Garland has quit. Not too impressed with Sean O'Brien either.
Was surprised O'Brien had the balls to dare to criticise the lad who has had it in for Irish players for the last 17 years or so. Went up in my estimation. I don't think many in Ireland will be sad to see the back of Gatland.
Nah just means there will be a load of hype around the 6N game but it's in Dublin this time so wouldn't worry about it too much!
Surprised Gatland has quit, maybe he's got word there's a big southern hemisphere job going to open up after 2019.
Don't think the Kiwi's like him much though, suppose he was leading a rival team against the all blacks - he must have expected that he'd get a bit of stick in the press.
Warren Gatland has not "quit" as coach of the British Lions.
The British Lions appoint a coach in advance of each tour, and once all official duties in relation to that tour have concluded, they are no longer the coach of the British Lions.
Warren Gatland has not been the coach of the British Lions since all official duties in relation to the 2017 tour concluded in July.
There has been no coach of the British Lions since then, and there will not be until the announcement of the coach for the 2021 tour of South Africa is made, most likely in 2020.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Warren Gatland has not "quit" as coach of the British Lions.
The British Lions appoint a coach in advance of each tour, and once all official duties in relation to that tour have concluded, they are no longer the coach of the British Lions.
Warren Gatland has not been the coach of the British Lions since all official duties in relation to the 2017 tour concluded in July.
There has been no coach of the British Lions since then, and there will not be until the announcement of the coach for the 2021 tour of South Africa is made, most likely in 2020.
Weird tact to take. He quit.
Yeah he had no job to quit to be fair.
Unbeaten as Lions coach, he was a cert for South Africa gig - I'd have that down as quit.
Quote from: Syferus on October 18, 2017, 07:22:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Warren Gatland has not "quit" as coach of the British Lions.
The British Lions appoint a coach in advance of each tour, and once all official duties in relation to that tour have concluded, they are no longer the coach of the British Lions.
Warren Gatland has not been the coach of the British Lions since all official duties in relation to the 2017 tour concluded in July.
There has been no coach of the British Lions since then, and there will not be until the announcement of the coach for the 2021 tour of South Africa is made, most likely in 2020.
Weird tact to take. He quit.
What?
Hardy, are you picking up on one of my pet peeves?
I didn't know it was, but if so you're no longer alone.
It's worse when it's spoken. I know I'm a pedant, but I hate it. It's like 'effect' and 'affect'.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2017, 10:50:14 AM
Unbeaten as Lions coach, he was a cert for South Africa gig - I'd have that down as quit.
But he was appointed for the Australia tour. That gig was over then he got the New Zealand tour. As of now there is no management team in place for the South Africa. He has simply ruled himself out of the running for that job.
Quote from: square_ball on October 19, 2017, 04:06:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2017, 10:50:14 AM
Unbeaten as Lions coach, he was a cert for South Africa gig - I'd have that down as quit.
But he was appointed for the Australia tour. That gig was over then he got the New Zealand tour. As of now there is no management team in place for the South Africa. He has simply ruled himself out of the running for that job.
It was a running of one person.
Who is the next manager of the Lions then?
Eddie Jones? Schmidt? Mark McCall???
Lads it would be like Brian Cody not putting his name forward when his next term is up. Officially he'd just be ruling himself out of the running for the appointment, but in reality he'd be resigning/retiring.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
Who is the next manager of the Lions then?
Eddie Jones? Schmidt? Mark McCall???
I'd say that's your shortlist right there if any of them want it!
Appointment of Lions manager is a different setup entirely to that of appointing a county manager. At this moment in time there is no lions manager - Gatland or anyone else.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one!!
Quote from: square_ball on October 20, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
Appointment of Lions manager is a different setup entirely to that of appointing a county manager. At this moment in time there is no lions manager - Gatland or anyone else.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one!!
Gatland won a tour and drew in NZ of all places - the job was his to say no to. There's no agreeing to disagree here to be honest, you simply took a semantic approach to this rather one rooted in common sense.
It's irrelevent what Gatland has done in his previous 2 tours. At this precise moment in time who is the lions coach? It's not Gatland he is simply the Wales head coach. I must have missed the news story where Ian McGeechan was sacked after 2009 or can you fire a link up there?
Whether he was to be offered the position or not is another issue. He has simply ruled himself out for the running next time around.
Quote from: square_ball on October 20, 2017, 02:06:00 PM
It's irrelevent what Gatland has done in his previous 2 tours. At this precise moment in time who is the lions coach? It's not Gatland he is simply the Wales head coach. I must have missed the news story where Ian McGeechan was sacked after 2009 or can you fire a link up there?
Whether he was to be offered the position or not is another issue. He has simply ruled himself out for the running next time around.
OK, how about he quit his interest? :)
Ok I'll agree to that ;)
If Warburton is not available for the next tour, has he resigned the captaincy?
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on October 20, 2017, 11:39:45 PM
If Warburton is not available for the next tour, has he resigned the captaincy?
:o
10er says he's not fit for it? Banker.
Full steam ahead for the pièce de résistance of the sporting year
Like some of the great Lions tours of old, it's one where our boys will ignore widespread pleas not to go to South Africa - but this time, it's those who support apartheid who are demanding they don't go
Still, there's a great comfort in some of that tradition being rekindled
99
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 24, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on October 20, 2017, 11:39:45 PM
If Warburton is not available for the next tour, has he resigned the captaincy?
:o
10er says he's not fit for it? Banker.
The crystal ball was working well here, although sad that he is fully retired and it is very much old news at this stage
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 27, 2021, 12:51:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 24, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on October 20, 2017, 11:39:45 PM
If Warburton is not available for the next tour, has he resigned the captaincy?
:o
10er says he's not fit for it? Banker.
The crystal ball was working well here, although sad that he is fully retired and it is very much old news at this stage
Very sad to see a player of that calibre bow out so early. When you see AWJ still ploughing the field at 35?
Warburton could have become one of the all time greats. Recovered from 2011 and all that came with that exceptionally, could have ruined a lesser man.
Warburton in jackal mode routinely put his head in where you wouldn't put a boot, so it is unsurprising that he called it a day. When you start needing neck surgery the game is up.
AWJ Captain.
37 man squad, not 36. Squad announcement due anytime now.
No Sexton.
Furlong
Beirne
Murray
Henshaw
Henderson
Aki
Conan
Porter
Sexton missing out hardly a surprise with injuries. I would have thought James Ryan would be in with a shout aswell.
Furlong and Henshaw possibly definite starters going on form at moment but no doubt a lot can change in warm up games.
A few interesting calls there, I thought Ryan would be a cert to go ahead of Iain Henderson.
Henderson in for his physicality? He'll do well to force himself into reckoning.
12 months back Ryan would have been a banker.
Aki a bolter. As is Cohan.
I would have taken Ryan ahead of Henderson and Beirne. Beirne may have been taken as a backrow or second row. Conan is a surprise inclusion as is Aki.
Ringrose will be disappointed.
The southern bias has filtered into the Board. Henderson offers much more for the Lions and on form alone it wasn't even up for debate. If Ryan were playing in any other province he'd be behind Beirne and Henderson comfortably in Irelands second row atm.
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on May 06, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
The southern bias has filtered into the Board. Henderson offers much more for the Lions and on form alone it wasn't even up for debate. If Ryan were playing in any other province he'd be behind Beirne and Henderson comfortably in Irelands second row atm.
I thought Beirne was outstanding in the 6N's TBH.
Lower squad number this year has helped players who can do more than one position, like Beirne, Hendo, Lawes, Conan, Porter, Daly.
Still think Ryan is unlucky to lose out to Lawes and Hill. A Lions tour would also be great for his development. Jonny Gray another surprise absentee from the second row.
Albeit I think AWJ and Itjoe are guaranteed starters anyway, but Beirne has a great chance of the 6 jersey in the opening test.
I think Henshaw is in more as a 13 than a 12 and is also a likely starter in the first test.
Furlong should be a guaranteed starter.
Of course, with injuries there's nearly bound to be a number of changes between now and the first test.
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on May 06, 2021, 01:24:01 PM
The southern bias has filtered into the Board. Henderson offers much more for the Lions and on form alone it wasn't even up for debate. If Ryan were playing in any other province he'd be behind Beirne and Henderson comfortably in Irelands second row atm.
I'm from the North and I've no idea how Henderson is in the squad over Ryan and as just mentioned Jonny Gray. Henderson has the experience of the NZ tour obviously.
Josh Navidi of Wales also desperately unlucky.
Quote from: Hound on May 06, 2021, 01:55:23 PM
Lower squad number this year has helped players who can do more than one position, like Beirne, Hendo, Lawes, Conan, Porter, Daly.
Still think Ryan is unlucky to lose out to Lawes and Hill. A Lions tour would also be great for his development. Jonny Gray another surprise absentee from the second row.
Albeit I think AWJ and Itjoe are guaranteed starters anyway, but Beirne has a great chance of the 6 jersey in the opening test.
I think Henshaw is in more as a 13 than a 12 and is also a likely starter in the first test.
Furlong should be a guaranteed starter.
Of course, with injuries there's nearly bound to be a number of changes between now and the first test.
There is definitely an argument for Ryan over Lawes and Hill, but it wasn't a toss up between him and Henderson. I think you could argue Hendy was the form player for Ireland in 6Nations and I am firmly of the belief if he lined out in blue that narrative would have been pushed.
Beirne would appear to be lined up for the start. I also think we could very easily see Aki and Henshaw starting. Also if injury hits you could drop Sexton in the week before the tests and he could be a starter no problem. I'd AWJ a certain starter?
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/lions-squad-johnny-sexton-left-out-as-eight-irish-players-selected-1.4557145
"Sexton, one of the undoubted heroes of both the 2013 and 2017 tours and indisputably the form outhalf of the Six Nations.
Instead, they have chosen Owen Farrell, short of form and predominantly used as an inside centre by England in the Six Nations, Finn Russell and Dan Biggar as their three outhalves."
His concussions must have caught up with him
I thought Sexton might just sneak in over Farrell now that the Da is off the line scene and Owen being out of form but it's not that much of a shock. Between Farrell and Biggar there, I'm not sure if Russell will be trusted to start....but some man to bring in for a bit of magic at the end.
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2021, 02:56:59 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/lions-squad-johnny-sexton-left-out-as-eight-irish-players-selected-1.4557145
"Sexton, one of the undoubted heroes of both the 2013 and 2017 tours and indisputably the form outhalf of the Six Nations.
Instead, they have chosen Owen Farrell, short of form and predominantly used as an inside centre by England in the Six Nations, Finn Russell and Dan Biggar as their three outhalves."
His concussions must have caught up with him
You'd be doing the lad a favour in not picking him. A good rest might see another year out of him
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2021, 02:56:59 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/lions-squad-johnny-sexton-left-out-as-eight-irish-players-selected-1.4557145
"Sexton, one of the undoubted heroes of both the 2013 and 2017 tours and indisputably the form outhalf of the Six Nations.
Instead, they have chosen Owen Farrell, short of form and predominantly used as an inside centre by England in the Six Nations, Finn Russell and Dan Biggar as their three outhalves."
His concussions must have caught up with him
D4 set going to explode in a DUP-like self-righteous fit of rage over his omission.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
You're just pissed that you weren't picked.
Folks not big time into Rugby but Henderson!! I'm mean am I of script here with this or maybe it's been mentioned, he finds it hard to make the Irish 4/5 positions
Quote from: johnnycool on May 06, 2021, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2021, 02:56:59 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/lions-squad-johnny-sexton-left-out-as-eight-irish-players-selected-1.4557145
"Sexton, one of the undoubted heroes of both the 2013 and 2017 tours and indisputably the form outhalf of the Six Nations.
Instead, they have chosen Owen Farrell, short of form and predominantly used as an inside centre by England in the Six Nations, Finn Russell and Dan Biggar as their three outhalves."
His concussions must have caught up with him
You'd be doing the lad a favour in not picking him. A good rest might see another year out of him
You wouldn't be wrong
Quote from: John Egans left boot on May 06, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
Folks not big time into Rugby but Henderson!! I'm mean am I of script here with this or maybe it's been mentioned, he finds it hard to make the Irish 4/5 positions
Read a few quotes saying it was a squad designed for kick, crash, bang, wallop Rugby, would suit him OK.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/warren-gatland-explains-big-calls-on-johnny-sexton-and-james-ryan-1.4557515
Warren Gatland has confirmed that Johnny Sexton's "durability" was the prime factor in overlooking the two-time Lions' outhalf and this year's Six Nations' leading points scorer.
The Lions head coach also cited James Ryan's performances in Leinster's defeat by La Rochelle last Sunday and their Champions Cup quarter-final loss at home to Saracens last September as part of the rationale behind his omission.
"There's no doubt that was one of the toughest decisions that we had to make," Gatland admitted with regard to leaving out Sexton and preferring Owen Farrell, Finn Russell and Dan Biggar as his options at outhalf.
"I've got a huge amount of respect for Johnny and his quality. But, it's such a pivotal position for us and it's about sending a message to the No 10s we have selected that we have confidence and belief in them to do a job.
"When we looked at where we were going, to South Africa, probably the thing that kept coming back to us was Johnny's durability. Being able to put a string of games together, consecutively big matches together. He has been rested on a number of occasions and unfortunately that's possibly what swayed it for us in terms of us not having the confidence that he can get through what's going to be a tough, physical tour."
As for not picking Ryan, Gatland said: "Look, there are a lot of tough calls. James was pretty unlucky. For us, it was getting that balance right with our secondrow and backrow options and having cover in those positions. Players being able to play secondrow or backrow."
This factor worked in favour of Tadhg Beirne and Iain Henderson who, like Maro Itoje, have also played at blindside.
"Look, James is unlucky," Gatland repeated. "We saw an example last weekend with Leinster against La Rochelle and if you look at the match properly, La Rochelle reminded me of what we're going to face in South Africa. We're going to face big, physical men. They'd Will Skelton, how direct they were coming off No 9.
"Probably the last couple of years, with Leinster in a couple of those big games - I know they were really good against Exeter - but we saw at the weekend and 12 months ago against Saracens in the European quarter-final - they've really gone hard at them physically up front and that challenge."
It transpires that Garry Ringrose's cruel run with injuries proved particularly unfortunate when missing out on the Six Nations finale against England, not least as it showcased the abilities of Bundee Aki at '12' and Robbie Henshaw at '13' in Ireland's convincing win.
"That combination of Bundee Aki and Robbie Henshaw was outstanding for Ireland against England, we've got to be able to have that balance between physicality that they bring and the ability to play rugby.
"Both of those players bring that, they know how to roll their sleeves up when it does get tough but they also can play some pretty positive attacking rugby as well."
Some odd picks but combination of wanting aggressive players and having Gregor Townsend on the backroom team no doubt helped swing a couple of the Scottish picks. I think Henry Slade could feel aggrieved.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 06, 2021, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: John Egans left boot on May 06, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
Folks not big time into Rugby but Henderson!! I'm mean am I of script here with this or maybe it's been mentioned, he finds it hard to make the Irish 4/5 positions
Read a few quotes saying it was a squad designed for kick, crash, bang, wallop Rugby, would suit him OK.
Gatland likes his crash ball rugby, hence why Aki is in there. Sexton and Ringrose are better off sitting at home.
The Lions have options certainly but centre is definitely the weakness. Farrell can obviously cover in there, but Henshaw / Aki and Chris Harris against the South Africans seems light. Elliot Daly has played centre before but I don't know if he would last against the South Africans.
I still can't believe Jonathan Davies didn't get selected in the centre especially with George North looking like a certain starter before his injury, you can't take them all I suppose.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is nothing more than an opinion and I am entitled to hold it, won't watch either event.
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is nothing more than an opinion and I am entitled to hold it, won't watch either event.
I guess people find it strange that someone would take time out from their day to go into a thread of something they have no interest in, to tell people they have no interest in it.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is entertaining, but lets face it, it started as a glorified team holiday/piss up and it's only media and PR company hype that have elevated it into something more.
I'd enjoy the spectacle but wouldn't be getting too bothered about the results.
Said it here before - it's akin to the best of Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone going down and playing Kerry.
A good spectacle, but ultimately meaningless in terms of representative sport.
Quote from: Franko on May 07, 2021, 01:03:20 PM
It is entertaining, but lets face it, it started as a glorified team holiday/piss up and it's only media and PR company hype that have elevated it into something more.
I'd enjoy the spectacle but wouldn't be getting too bothered about the results.
Said it here before - it's akin to the best of Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone going down and playing Kerry.
A good spectacle, but ultimately meaningless in terms of representative sport.
I don't think you can have demonstrated a greater lack of understanding of what it means to those involved. Winning a series against the Lions is often quoted by Southern Hemisphere players as an event to rank alongside winning the World Cup.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is nothing more than an opinion and I am entitled to hold it, won't watch either event.
I guess people find it strange that someone would take time out from their day to go into a thread of something they have no interest in, to tell people they have no interest in it.
Well put.
Normally a rush on some people to shout and continuing shouting about how much they not interested in something. Very odd.
It's a kin to people not liking a band in basis of "they got too popular/big/commercial, I liked them when no one did".
Lions is a great event. The very best in their sport taking on each other.
Every 4 years if the best from the Northern Hems was to take on the best from the Southern Hems in 3 tests. Warm up games could be against countries instead of clubs. Southern Hems could tour the Northern Hems 4 years later.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is nothing more than an opinion and I am entitled to hold it, won't watch either event.
I guess people find it strange that someone would take time out from their day to go into a thread of something they have no interest in, to tell people they have no interest in it.
So I'm not allowed to express an opinion on the board now? It is a waste of time and money and an ego trip in my opinion. Harking back to the days off Empire.
Quote from: Louther on May 07, 2021, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 07, 2021, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
It is nothing more than an opinion and I am entitled to hold it, won't watch either event.
I guess people find it strange that someone would take time out from their day to go into a thread of something they have no interest in, to tell people they have no interest in it.
Well put.
Normally a rush on some people to shout and continuing shouting about how much they not interested in something. Very odd.
It's a kin to people not liking a band in basis of "they got too popular/big/commercial, I liked them when no one did".
Lions is a great event. The very best in their sport taking on each other.
By all means explain why you enjoy it, but this is a discussion board and dissent is allowed, otherwise there'd be no discussion. It would then be an agreement board 😂. Oh and I get that it means something to players to be chosen. But lets face it it is not the b best of the Northern Hemisphere vs the best of the Southern Hemisphere. Firstly South Africa are just one team, and secondly France, Italy etc are excluded. but here you all enjoy.
In truth it is more corporate junket than pinnacle of sport. That's it's lifeblood. The media are complicit partners in this junket too, for life really doesn't get any better for a sports journalist than 3 or 4 all-expenses weeks away in a pretty informal sporting environment, halfway across the world. Hence the column inches. Hence the daily reminders of how important it is to everyone.
I still enjoy it for what it is: good, honest, representative sport, where bragging rights is more important to the competitors than the financial end of things. And in fairness to rugby pros, they are very, very rarely found hiding - which in itself makes for a spectacle.
This Lions has a few things going for it. Its heritage, no-one can deny that, the tours going back a century or more being particularly impressive given the grueling travel itinerary, but moreover the Lions is a huge cash cow for NZ, SA and Oz both within the rugby fraternity and for tourism generally. It would be fairly well factored into the budgets of their rugby unions and part of their ongoing development strategies. Look it is what it is, harmless fun (concussions aside).
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2021, 03:27:49 PM
In truth it is more corporate junket than pinnacle of sport. That's it's lifeblood. The media are complicit partners in this junket too, for life really doesn't get any better for a sports journalist than 3 or 4 all-expenses weeks away in a pretty informal sporting environment, halfway across the world. Hence the column inches. Hence the daily reminders of how important it is to everyone.
I still enjoy it for what it is: good, honest, representative sport, where bragging rights is more important to the competitors than the financial end of things. And in fairness to rugby pros, they are very, very rarely found hiding - which in itself makes for a spectacle.
Does your description of the event in your second paragraph not essentially undermine your opening line in your first paragraph?
I'm not a rugby man, but I essentially take my lead on this from the weight that those in the world of rugby - players, officials and supporters - place on it, and how that is reflected in the sense of sporting occasion and the intensity of what happens on the field.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
I often wonder why people who have no interest in something feel the need to post about their lack of interest in that thing
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 07, 2021, 01:03:20 PM
It is entertaining, but lets face it, it started as a glorified team holiday/piss up and it's only media and PR company hype that have elevated it into something more.
I'd enjoy the spectacle but wouldn't be getting too bothered about the results.
Said it here before - it's akin to the best of Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone going down and playing Kerry.
A good spectacle, but ultimately meaningless in terms of representative sport.
I don't think you can have demonstrated a greater lack of understanding of what it means to those involved. Winning a series against the Lions is often quoted by Southern Hemisphere players as an event to rank alongside winning the World Cup.
And the southern hemisphere teams should be proud of their achievement.
They beat the pick of 4 other top ranked rugby nations.
I've never seen a quote from a player placing it so highly, but no doubt you'll find one.
I would question your assertion that it is 'often' quoted though.
I also think it would be naïve not to consider the motivations behind such a quote in terms of generating interest in the series.
A lions victory on the other hand... could you explain to me why that would be worth celebrating?
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 04:21:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2021, 03:27:49 PM
In truth it is more corporate junket than pinnacle of sport. That's it's lifeblood. The media are complicit partners in this junket too, for life really doesn't get any better for a sports journalist than 3 or 4 all-expenses weeks away in a pretty informal sporting environment, halfway across the world. Hence the column inches. Hence the daily reminders of how important it is to everyone.
I still enjoy it for what it is: good, honest, representative sport, where bragging rights is more important to the competitors than the financial end of things. And in fairness to rugby pros, they are very, very rarely found hiding - which in itself makes for a spectacle.
Does your description of the event in your second paragraph not essentially undermine your opening line in your first paragraph?
I'm not a rugby man, but I essentially take my lead on this from the weight that those in the world of rugby - players, officials and supporters - place on it, and how that is reflected in the sense of sporting occasion and the intensity of what happens on the field.
Sort of i suppose i guess.
Similar to the Ryder Cup really. Not making the cut is probably a bigger emotional blow for the players than the honour of actually representing a collage of nations.
But it's the media that puts Ryder Cup appearances almost on a pedestal with major wins. And they dine on it. Then some more and more. When it's not really true. Neither the Ryder nor the Lions is actually that important. Just good fun, hyped beyond words.
Quote from: Franko on May 07, 2021, 05:28:41 PM
And the southern hemisphere teams should be proud of their achievement. They beat the pick of 4 other top ranked rugby nations. I've never seen a quote from a player placing it so highly, but no doubt you'll find one. I would question your assertion that it is 'often' quoted though. I also think it would be naïve not to consider the motivations behind such a quote in terms of generating interest in the series. A lions victory on the other hand... could you explain to me why that would be worth celebrating?
I'm afraid not. My days of investing such time and effort into debates on this forum have long since gone. The fact that you are ready to query the motivation for such quotes anyway, if they were to be found, only serves to underline the wisdom of my stance.
Quote from: Franko on May 07, 2021, 05:28:41 PM
A lions victory on the other hand... could you explain to me why that would be worth celebrating?
The achievement of a specific group of players, coming together for the first and only time, and in a relatively short space of time, creating / developing a collective effort in terms of game plan / application, to beat the World Champions on their own patch.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
But it's the media that puts Ryder Cup appearances almost on a pedestal with major wins. And they dine on it. Then some more and more. When it's not really true. Neither the Ryder nor the Lions is actually that important. Just good fun, hyped beyond words.
The raw emotion shown by the participants in both - and there are countless examples - give a totally different perspective.
It's a bit like the railway cup for players from weaker counties... it means more to some than to others.
Yeah, go Lions. British and Irish till I die.
Quote from: Hardy on May 07, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
Yeah, go Lions. British and Irish till I die.
Back on a positive note I see ;D
Who's that new poster?
Quote from: Hardy on May 07, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
Yeah, go Lions. British and Irish till I die.
Fáilte ar ais Hardyarse
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 07, 2021, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 07, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 06, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
The Lions, like the Ryder Cup is of little interest to me. It's a junket.
I'm going to be honest with you - I was waiting to see who would be the first person to trot this, or something very similar, out. It is of course all about opinions. Thankfully though, your view does not appear to be shared by the majority of the rugby following public with the result that we normally have contests of the highest standard, played before huge, partisan crowds, that makes for a thrilling sporting spectacle. The emotions of the players - both winners and losers - gives some insight into what it means for those to participate.
I often wonder why people who have no interest in something feel the need to post about their lack of interest in that thing
I often wonder why people with no interest in discussion use this board.
Quote from: Hardy on May 07, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
Yeah, go Lions. British and Irish till I die.
"Look to my coming, at first light, on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the East."
I used to love the Lions tours and watched the Lions tour documentaries flat out as it gave a good insight into the professionalism of the team setup. There wasn't much social media back then so you got to see a lot of players in a different light whereas now you can quickly click on their instagram or twitter nowadays. Over the past few tours they haven't been the same and have become less interesting.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on May 08, 2021, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 07, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
Yeah, go Lions. British and Irish till I die.
"Look to my coming, at first light, on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the East."
Ahh they great welsh wing wizards always good for a quote
Love the Lions Tour. Love the Ryder cup.
Remember walking the streets of Krakow looking for a pub that would be guaranteed to show the Lions match the following day. The only time in life I was glad to find one of those generic Irish pubs. But come match time it was bunged, mainly Irish and all fecked off when we played shite and got beat.
I reckon that some people just won't back a team with the word British in it. Maybe the commentators could work harder at not lazily referring to the British Lions but life is too short to waste time getting excited by all that. Incredibly there are people who think the term the British Isles is designed to annoy them personally or that it infers ownership of Ireland by England. If you have a problem with that take it up with the French and let the rest of us get on with life.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Love the Lions Tour. Love the Ryder cup.
Remember walking the streets of Krakow looking for a pub that would be guaranteed to show the Lions match the following day. The only time in life I was glad to find one of those generic Irish pubs. But come match time it was bunged, mainly Irish and all fecked off when we played shite and got beat.
I reckon that some people just won't back a team with the word British in it. Maybe the commentators could work harder at not lazily referring to the British Lions but life is too short to waste time getting excited by all that. Incredibly there are people who think the term the British Isles is designed to annoy them personally or that it infers ownership of Ireland by England. If you have a problem with that take it up with the French and let the rest of us get on with life.
Well it does.
And what has the name of the British isles got to do with the French?
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2021, 07:31:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Love the Lions Tour. Love the Ryder cup.
Remember walking the streets of Krakow looking for a pub that would be guaranteed to show the Lions match the following day. The only time in life I was glad to find one of those generic Irish pubs. But come match time it was bunged, mainly Irish and all fecked off when we played shite and got beat.
I reckon that some people just won't back a team with the word British in it. Maybe the commentators could work harder at not lazily referring to the British Lions but life is too short to waste time getting excited by all that. Incredibly there are people who think the term the British Isles is designed to annoy them personally or that it infers ownership of Ireland by England. If you have a problem with that take it up with the French and let the rest of us get on with life.
Well it does.
And what has the name of the British isles got to do with the French?
Well it doesn't. So there.
But seriously.
It's the Normans. They were French. Near neighbours of Brittany. Popped across La Manche. Found it a bit rugged and blustery. A bit like Brittany only bigger. A Grande Bretagne. The island beside it was similarly rugged and similarly blustery and so we had Les Iles Britanniques. I'll leave the translations to you.
So ownership no. And French yes. Comprenez vous?
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2021, 07:31:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Love the Lions Tour. Love the Ryder cup.
Remember walking the streets of Krakow looking for a pub that would be guaranteed to show the Lions match the following day. The only time in life I was glad to find one of those generic Irish pubs. But come match time it was bunged, mainly Irish and all fecked off when we played shite and got beat.
I reckon that some people just won't back a team with the word British in it. Maybe the commentators could work harder at not lazily referring to the British Lions but life is too short to waste time getting excited by all that. Incredibly there are people who think the term the British Isles is designed to annoy them personally or that it infers ownership of Ireland by England. If you have a problem with that take it up with the French and let the rest of us get on with life.
Well it does.
And what has the name of the British isles got to do with the French?
Well it doesn't. So there.
But seriously.
It's the Normans. They were French. Near neighbours of Brittany. Popped across La Manche. Found it a bit rugged and blustery. A bit like Brittany only bigger. A Grande Bretagne. The island beside it was similarly rugged and similarly blustery and so we had Les Iles Britanniques. I'll leave the translations to you.
So ownership no. And French yes. Comprenez vous?
"So there" Jesus Christ what age are you ;D
And it does.
The rest of that post is pure waffle and bluster and irrelevant to my question.
As for the "translations", I'm a fluent French speaker, so I've got that covered, thanks.
Clown
Somebody should have told Kyle Sinckler that the Lions is a load of overhyped bullshit he obviously didn't get the memo...
Quote from: screenexile on May 09, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Somebody should have told Kyle Sinckler that the Lions is a load of overhyped bullshit he obviously didn't get the memo...
Just a snippet of what it means to these guys. Fairly unlikeable character on the field....but seems a really good guy behind it all. Felt sorry for him watching that clip.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 09, 2021, 05:56:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2021, 07:31:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 08, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Love the Lions Tour. Love the Ryder cup.
Remember walking the streets of Krakow looking for a pub that would be guaranteed to show the Lions match the following day. The only time in life I was glad to find one of those generic Irish pubs. But come match time it was bunged, mainly Irish and all fecked off when we played shite and got beat.
I reckon that some people just won't back a team with the word British in it. Maybe the commentators could work harder at not lazily referring to the British Lions but life is too short to waste time getting excited by all that. Incredibly there are people who think the term the British Isles is designed to annoy them personally or that it infers ownership of Ireland by England. If you have a problem with that take it up with the French and let the rest of us get on with life.
Well it does.
And what has the name of the British isles got to do with the French?
Well it doesn't. So there.
But seriously.
It's the Normans. They were French. Near neighbours of Brittany. Popped across La Manche. Found it a bit rugged and blustery. A bit like Brittany only bigger. A Grande Bretagne. The island beside it was similarly rugged and similarly blustery and so we had Les Iles Britanniques. I'll leave the translations to you.
So ownership no. And French yes. Comprenez vous?
"So there" Jesus Christ what age are you ;D
And it does.
The rest of that post is pure waffle and bluster and irrelevant to my question.
As for the "translations", I'm a fluent French speaker, so I've got that covered, thanks.
Clown
Ok I did get a bit of that wrong. Only the Great Britain bit is related to the French. Ooopsies. My apologies
The Lions were beaten tonight by a very strong South Africa A, 17-13 in the end. The first competitive game on the tour and the Lions lost it.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 14, 2021, 09:22:02 PM
The Lions were beaten tonight by a very strong South Africa A, 17-13 in the end. The first competitive game on the tour and the Lions lost it.
SA had more or less full team out, Gatland will have a different set up going into first 'real' test, should be a interesting set of games.
Lions team for 1st Test: Hogg; A Watson, Daly, Henshaw, Van Der Merwe; Biggar, Price; W Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Itoje, AW Jones (capt), Lawes, Curry, Conan.
6 English,
3 Welsh,
3 Irish and
3 Scots
Murray goes from replacement Capt to replacement.
What had Josh Adams to do
Not even in squad
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 21, 2021, 07:22:55 PM
What had Josh Adams to do
Not even in squad
Adams did well on tour but the Lions are strong at the position. I would have had Rees Zammit at the position. They are also carrying 6 forwards as sub and only 2 backs on the bench.
Seems a strange selection to me. Elliot Daly at Centre??
I don't think VDM is any great shakes at wing either although he's big and physical so that's why he's there. AWJ is a gamble and I also think Lawes is past his best.
Obviously Garland knows a lot more than me and gets it right more often than not so will be interesting to see how the test goes. Looking forward to it!
Quote from: screenexile on July 21, 2021, 11:04:09 PM
Seems a strange selection to me. Elliot Daly at Centre??
I don't think VDM is any great shakes at wing either although he's big and physical so that's why he's there. AWJ is a gamble and I also think Lawes is past his best.
Obviously Garland knows a lot more than me and gets it right more often than not so will be interesting to see how the test goes. Looking forward to it!
Lawes was red hot for a few weeks at the business end of the Gallagher Prem, so peaked at the right time for selection, and he can drop into second row if required. VDM definitely there for size. Daly has a big boot so if it's going to be an arm-wrestle between the forwards they maybe reckon there could be a good few scrum pens etc. so he gives them options as far out as 50m. Interesting match ahead. Gatland has rarely picked the people he is expected to pick - remember when he didn't pick BOD there was nearly WWIII!
Initially thinking AWJ was a huge gamble, but I guess the shoulder will either hold up or it won't. If he's going to be out, it may as well be early in the tour as late. And you can't risk bringing him on and wasting a substitution if he needs to come back off.
Williams on the bench tho, that's a strange one. He can only really play FB and Hogg can only play FB. Adams would have covered wing and full back, as well as 13 if you were stuck
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/07/21/john-robbie-interview-irishman-played-south-africa-end-anti/
He feels the series is on a knife edge. Many of the Springboks' advantages as world champions have been negated by a lack of game time. With such thin margins, the set-piece battle looms large. "It could come down to the scrum," Robbie said. "That first scrum in the first Test will be really significant. If you can go forward, as South Africa did in the World Cup final against England, then you have basically won the game."
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 22, 2021, 03:00:53 AM
Initially thinking AWJ was a huge gamble, but I guess the shoulder will either hold up or it won't. If he's going to be out, it may as well be early in the tour as late. And you can't risk bringing him on and wasting a substitution if he needs to come back off.
Williams on the bench tho, that's a strange one. He can only really play FB and Hogg can only play FB. Adams would have covered wing and full back, as well as 13 if you were stuck
Williams can play 11 easily and did so for Wales this year.
Lions have just taken the lead with 17 minutes to go. It struggles to match up with the hurling though.
Very good game.
The bregrudgers don't know what they're missing.
Some savage hits and the intensity will only ramp up for the 2nd test.
Great finish to the game... SA could have stole bit with that last 'try' that was overturned. Playing at sea level helps also
Was a good game. Didn't think the lions would do it to be honest.
South Africa should had 3 tries, the one where the player was in line not in front, def try. Game was basically a kicking session, with nearly all scores from placed ball.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 25, 2021, 05:07:32 PM
South Africa should had 3 tries, the one where the player was in line not in front, def try. Game was basically a kicking session, with nearly all scores from placed ball.
TMO was right. Greenwood was wrong on tv. It's the back foot you have to be behind when the ball is kicked, not the foot that kicked the ball.
Quote from: dublin7 on July 25, 2021, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 25, 2021, 05:07:32 PM
South Africa should had 3 tries, the one where the player was in line not in front, def try. Game was basically a kicking session, with nearly all scores from placed ball.
TMO was right. Greenwood was wrong on tv. It's the back foot you have to be behind when the ball is kicked, not the foot that kicked the ball.
It was great having Owens in the commentary box. But he was poor in not explaining why he disagreed with Greenwood for that call.
Delighted for Conan to play well. I thought Lions were lucky to get away with Gatland picking a team focused on Bok strengths rather than Lions strengths. Boks were unlucky to lose but I expect Lions to learn and win next week.
Itoje was superb.
WTF is Rasmus doing on Twitter? Very strange!
Didn't get to see the first test but sounds like a deserved win should make for at least a good second game SA will have to come out guns blazing!
Pitch seemed to be in very bad shape backs could barely turn on it
LIONS TEAM
15. Stuart Hogg
14. Anthony Watson
13. Chris Harris
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Duhan van der Merwe
10. Dan Biggar
9. Conor Murray
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Alun Wyn Jones (c)
5. Maro Itoje
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Tom Curry
8. Jack Conan
REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Rory Sutherland, Kyle Sinckler, Tadhg Beirne, Toby Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Elliot Daly.
Thought Josh Adams might get a chance this week. But it'll probably be another kicking game.
Rasmus lost the plot??
Quote from: screenexile on July 29, 2021, 08:14:33 PM
Rasmus lost the plot??
Seems a bit of a Kevin Keegan moment alrite (an hour long one). Springboks are a different breed tho, might work wonders for them. Tomorrow's game is going to be a brutal physical encounter.
Kolisi yapping now. Fergie in his pomp would have been red-faced by some of this craic but it adds a little spice to proceedings.
SA have sorta lost the run of themselves. Embrassing stuff coming out. Doubt your man lost the plot. We all love to send refs a collection of decisions we don't agreed with. Most sensible people don't. Brings the South African Management into focus. Surprised world Rugby hasn't took action to address.
This is a hard watch
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 31, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
This is a hard watch
brutal no continuity game stopping every 2 minutes
South Africa got a big break there with the Am try. I don't think he grounded it with his hand, he grounded it with his forearm.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2021, 06:50:19 PM
South Africa got a big break there with the Am try. I don't think he grounded it with his hand, he grounded it with his forearm.
Didn't think it would be given. Maybe a bit of pressure applied to the officials during the week has its merits.
The lions miss not having Rees Zammit in the team at this moment in time imho.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2021, 06:56:02 PM
The lions miss not having Rees Zammit in the team at this moment in time imho.
be a wales back 3 next game and a lot more changes I think
Hogg, Van derM and Watson have stank the place out.
I see the GAA are running the Limerick all Ireland hurling semi final in direct competition with the Lions decider 5 o clock on saturday. That is Limerick rugby city. I will of course watch both at the same time on my various devices.
Christ that was a hard watch
I like this South African team, I hope they win the series. Amandla.
And I was castigated for saying the lions was nothing but a jolly.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 02, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
And I was castigated for saying the lions was nothing but a jolly.
Bio-secure bubbles away from their friends & family, very limited social interactions, it's winter, daily professional training, they're getting physically pummelled by the World Champions - I've no idea what part of that would constitute a 'Jolly' tbh???
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 02, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
And I was castigated for saying the lions was nothing but a jolly.
Bio-secure bubbles away from their friends & family, very limited social interactions, it's winter, daily professional training, they're getting physically pummelled by the World Champions - I've no idea what part of that would constitute a 'Jolly' tbh???
Would agree, not a "jolly" , but I genuinely don't get it. Hype over substance
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2021, 07:40:32 PM
I see the GAA are running the Limerick all Ireland hurling semi final in direct competition with the Lions decider 5 o clock on saturday. That is Limerick rugby city. I will of course watch both at the same time on my various devices.
I presume this is a wind up.
The all-ireland semifinal of our national sport , should bow to a contrived, overhyped gather-up.
I can just see it , lads on tables in pubs around the country (outside and socially distanced of course) , singing the fields of Athenry , beating their chests and roaring with tears in their eyes , "I'm British & Irish to the core" 😂🤦🏻♂️
I used to enjoy Irish rugby internationals , but my interest has wained in recent years as the game has got more boring and high risk of head/neck injuries. But I can still relate to the sense of place eg club, province , country. However how somebody from Munster can get worked up about playing alongside someone from Northampton, genuinely baffles me
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 02, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
And I was castigated for saying the lions was nothing but a jolly.
And you should be again.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 02, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
a contrived, overhyped gather-up.
Contrived? The first Lions Tour was in 1888!?!
Quote from: 6th sam on August 02, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
However how somebody from Munster can get worked up about playing alongside someone from Northampton, genuinely baffles me
Your bafflement can be more easily understood by others when it is considered that you label a sporting institution, in its third century of competing, as 'contrived'.
The writing has been on the wall for years, but Rugby is doomed; it has become a game for over-coached, over-steroided, over-aggressive robots, who have an unusual willingness to sacrifice their future health to run headfirst into likeminded people.
It's not entertainment and it's now among the least safest sporting endeavours on earth.
Until they can widen all top level pitches by 10-15 yards, they should go to 12 or 13 a side.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 02, 2021, 03:00:02 PM
The writing has been on the wall for years, but Rugby is doomed; it has become a game for over-coached, over-steroided, over-aggressive robots, who have an unusual willingness to sacrifice their future health to run headfirst into likeminded people.
It's not entertainment and it's now among the least safest sporting endeavours on earth.
Until they can widen all top level pitches by 10-15 yards, they should go to 12 or 13 a side.
+1, the game has gone horrendous. Saturday was shocking entertainment.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on August 02, 2021, 02:31:27 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 02, 2021, 11:31:07 AM
And I was castigated for saying the lions was nothing but a jolly.
And you should be again.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 02, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
a contrived, overhyped gather-up.
Contrived? The first Lions Tour was in 1888!?!
Quote from: 6th sam on August 02, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
However how somebody from Munster can get worked up about playing alongside someone from Northampton, genuinely baffles me
Your bafflement can be more easily understood by others when it is considered that you label a sporting institution, in its third century of competing, as 'contrived'.
The Act of union was 1800. So from 1888 it was The "British" lions, fair enough. incredibly it continued with that name even after The 26 counties became an independent nation in 1921, and only became the "British and Irish " lions in 2001. Surely if international players needed an extra representative layer, then there should be a European team. I just don't get the "British isles " thing. I could even understand a UK lions team , giving unionist players in the North the opportunity to play for a British representative side , with which they could clearly affiliate . But how a Munster man , kisses the badge of a "British and Irish" team , I can't understand . Why not team up with the French for an Atlantic team then?😂🤦🏻♂️.
Rugby's issue is that only a handful of nations take the sport seriously and they are a cut above everybody else. In Only NZ , pacific islands and Wales is it the major sport. Because teams are sometimes on the opposite extremes of the planet , matches are organised in elongated tours, and an extra representative layer provides a few extra matches, which many rugby people find interesting, and fair play to them. But for me a lot of it is contrived and unnatural . Only my opinion, it doesn't keep me awake at night 😂
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.
Quote from: trailer on August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.
Gotten a bit like American football alright.
Lord help the front rows if subs are limited.
It's an interesting idea Trailer.
I just can't help thinking that if there's an advantage to be gained in injuring someone who can't be replaced, then it'll be exploited.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 02, 2021, 04:50:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.
Gotten a bit like American football alright.
Lord help the front rows if subs are limited.
There has been a definite shift away from that in the last couple of years. Players are getting hammered by the refs for anything above shoulder height and you rarely see "Superman" dives through a ruck. That's not to say these hits don't happen, but when offenders continue to get binned or lined they'll eventually have to adjust their style.
Quote from: trailer on August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.
There's always rugby league if that's the direction you want to see rugby go, but it doesn't reduce the collisions involved. Heard a former pro talking about the amount of pain killers involved with the sport, union is the same too. I never really got into league, maybe it's because I had no natural team to support in it, but I always found it very repetitive.
I have found I have watched less and less union over the last few years too for all the reasons mentioned here. I thought it peaked around 10 years ago but hasn't been as good to watch since.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on August 03, 2021, 10:14:30 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 02, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.
There's always rugby league if that's the direction you want to see rugby go, but it doesn't reduce the collisions involved. Heard a former pro talking about the amount of pain killers involved with the sport, union is the same too. I never really got into league, maybe it's because I had no natural team to support in it, but I always found it very repetitive.
I have found I have watched less and less union over the last few years too for all the reasons mentioned here. I thought it peaked around 10 years ago but hasn't been as good to watch since.
The size of players who now play on the wing or centres is dramatically different even in 10 years. A lot of them would've played in the pack 20 or 30 years ago such is their size.
I definitely think adjusting the game so players are lighter or fitter would be a good starting point. Probably not the magic solution but coupled with these changes we see around the tackle it might make a change.
Society is changing, it's only a matter of time until heading in soccer is severely reduced or banned outright at least at amateur level anyway. Rugby will be no different. When ex players start to talk about the effects it's pretty shocking and I don't doubt it was a factor in CJ Stander retiring when he did.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 02, 2021, 12:29:19 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 31, 2021, 07:40:32 PM
I see the GAA are running the Limerick all Ireland hurling semi final in direct competition with the Lions decider 5 o clock on saturday. That is Limerick rugby city. I will of course watch both at the same time on my various devices.
I presume this is a wind up.
The all-ireland semifinal of our national sport , should bow to a contrived, overhyped gather-up.
I can just see it , lads on tables in pubs around the country (outside and socially distanced of course) , singing the fields of Athenry , beating their chests and roaring with tears in their eyes , "I'm British & Irish to the core" 😂🤦🏻♂️
I used to enjoy Irish rugby internationals , but my interest has wained in recent years as the game has got more boring and high risk of head/neck injuries. But I can still relate to the sense of place eg club, province , country. However how somebody from Munster can get worked up about playing alongside someone from Northampton, genuinely baffles me
You might be in for a shock when someone explains professional sport to you . . . on some occasions lads might play together for club teams and not even be from the same country :o :o :o
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/matt-williams-rugby-in-desperate-need-of-a-major-overhaul-to-its-antiquated-laws-1.4635204
Rugby's current blight was the blight of the first Test. A huge number of aimless kicks from both teams, ridiculous chunks of game time wasted with exactly nothing happening, as the forwards stood about, refusing to form scrum after tedious scrum.
Add in the long delays that are sadly now part of every match, as replacements spluttered onto the pitch and the match officials endlessly stopped play to talk to each other.
Running rugby
What was missing from the first Lions Test and so many other games is rugby's unique selling point. Rugby is different from every other ball sport because it is the only game on the planet where you have to run forward and pass the ball backwards.
It is the players running with the ball in their hand and passing to a teammate that is not only unique, it is also a joy to behold. Running rugby has a magic that mesmerises people. Words fail to adequately describe the exhilaration it creates and, much more importantly for the future of the game, running rugby can be monetised. Running the ball is sexy and fun. Parents want their kids to play it and advertisers and sponsors will pay for it.
If the future of rugby is represented by the first Lions Test, then our beautiful game is gravely ill and in desperate need of a major overhaul to its antiquated laws.
Rugby supporters have longed for the day when World Rugby would begin the overdue reforms to the laws that we can all see are required. So a few weeks ago, when World Rugby announced the new law changes for 2021-22 the rugby community was hopeful. The changes since announced were so inconsequential I will not even bother to list them. Rugby people across the globe were stupefied at the lack of meaningful law changes.
There was nothing to reduce the endless mauls and box kicks. Zero on the huge amount of time-wasting at scrums and goal kicks. Nothing to enhance the current imbalance and advantages that defenders have over the attackers. Nothing to reduce referees' non-stop, needless talking.
In not acting to restoring the much-needed balance between attack and defence, World Rugby's legislators continue to punish players who want to do what the young William Webb Ellis did. That is to pick the ball up and have a reasonable amount of time and space to catch the ball, run with it, then pass it. This is every player's birthright and the pure essence of the game which is now under threat.
Whether it is competing at the Olympic Games or ensuring a Lions tour in a pandemic, when rugby puts its substantial, collective will behind a project there is almost nothing the game cannot achieve. And there is your answer. Rugby's legislative elite simply do not have the collective political will for essential internal reform.
Rugby is in desperate need of administrative champions who will be able to pursue the relentless simplification of the labyrinth of obsolete laws that have been left untouched for decades because rugby's current crop of politicians simply don't have the political balls to make the hard calls required to do what the entire rugby community knows is urgently needed.
PS If World Rugby's officials had seen Rassie Erasmus's video privately, it would be just another tough talk with a coach. Conversations like this happen face to face, at most Test matches. Rassie was justified to cite the three exceptionally dangerous pieces of play by the Lions that all required cards and went unpunished.
In publicly releasing the video Rassie crossed a line.
Like all in rugby, Rassie is frustrated at World Rugby's decades-long refusal to meaningfully reform officiating. Our referees are failing because they are required to judge an impossible number of situations far too quickly.
Rassie has shed some light on rugby's officiating problems. Whether he has damaged the game and his own career at the same time remains to be seen.
C'mon the Boks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDuPuSMDxM
Well that didn't go according to plan. Colby was the difference maker. The Lions didn't have anyone like him in the matchday squad. Ithink the Lions should regret not having Rees Zammit in there, he could have made a difference.
They have a lot of game changers in that squad
Young Smith flew out after the premiership final ( in which he starred )
NO WAY was he getting included with Gatlands game plan
Lions best player was Russell but even he kept kicking away needless ball cause that was he was told to do
If it wasn't for him coming on and playing off the cuff the game would have been long over
Why do coaches set up not to lose instead of trying to win ?
4 nations couldnt beat 1
Quote from: trailer on August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs.
Even easier solution would be total matchday squad weight limit.
Wouldn't be very hard for the 4 officials to have a couple of sets of weighing scales and tot up the 23 on each side.
Bust the limit and you have to drop as many of your subs off your squad as necessary to get back under the limit.
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 07, 2021, 07:37:03 PM
Well that didn't go according to plan. Colby was the difference maker. The Lions didn't have anyone like him in the matchday squad. Ithink the Lions should regret not having Rees Zammit in there, he could have made a difference.
That's rubbish. God himself could have been playing on the wing for South Africa and it would have made no difference. The winning try from South Africa was a freak play based on the bounce of a ball and pure luck
South Africa with an incredibly limited kick & chase game plan won due to poor officiating and the Lions not taking their chances in the first half.
Rules need to be changed to discourage such negative tactics. South Africa were incredibly negative/cynical over the whole series and were at their most dangerous when they kicked away possession to the Lions.
Questions need to be asked about the rules when limited teams like South Africa look more threatening without the ball than with it and as a a tactic give the ball to the opposition rather than look to create anything through their own play
Quote from: dublin7 on August 07, 2021, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 07, 2021, 07:37:03 PM
Well that didn't go according to plan. Colby was the difference maker. The Lions didn't have anyone like him in the matchday squad. Ithink the Lions should regret not having Rees Zammit in there, he could have made a difference.
That's rubbish. God himself could have been playing on the wing for South Africa and it would have made no difference. The winning try from South Africa was a freak play based on the bounce of a ball and pure luck
South Africa with an incredibly limited kick & chase game plan won due to poor officiating and the Lions not taking their chances in the first half.
Rules need to be changed to discourage such negative tactics. South Africa were incredibly negative/cynical over the whole series and were at their most dangerous when they kicked away possession to the Lions.
Questions need to be asked about the rules when limited teams like South Africa look more threatening without the ball than with it and as a a tactic give the ball to the opposition rather than look to create anything through their own play
Rugby has massive issues, cynicism , endangering opponents, financial concerns, reducing skill and Flair. I don't see a way out of it
Quote from: 6th sam on August 08, 2021, 08:50:03 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 07, 2021, 11:18:54 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 07, 2021, 07:37:03 PM
Well that didn't go according to plan. Colby was the difference maker. The Lions didn't have anyone like him in the matchday squad. Ithink the Lions should regret not having Rees Zammit in there, he could have made a difference.
That's rubbish. God himself could have been playing on the wing for South Africa and it would have made no difference. The winning try from South Africa was a freak play based on the bounce of a ball and pure luck
South Africa with an incredibly limited kick & chase game plan won due to poor officiating and the Lions not taking their chances in the first half.
Rules need to be changed to discourage such negative tactics. South Africa were incredibly negative/cynical over the whole series and were at their most dangerous when they kicked away possession to the Lions.
Questions need to be asked about the rules when limited teams like South Africa look more threatening without the ball than with it and as a a tactic give the ball to the opposition rather than look to create anything through their own play
Rugby has massive issues, cynicism , endangering opponents, financial concerns, reducing skill and Flair. I don't see a way out of it
Due to Covid every sport has financial issues, but in terms of player safety rugby is doing more than most sports to deal with issues like concussions and head injuries. Dangerous/high tackles are now clamped down on with suspensions.
The big issue is the style of play were brute force is leading to games turning into dour slugfests (like the 2nd lions test) that no one wants to watch
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
They are suspending players for high tackles and forcing players to leave the pitch for assessments if they get a head injury or a hit to the head. That's way ahead of football and GAA who don't have any policies in place for head injuries and even if they do they're certainly not enforced. Players being taken off with head injuries or after getting hit on the head are the exception rather than the rule.
Changes do need to be made to the rules to make the game less about physicality and speed up the game
You're comparing apples and pears.
There are more head injuries and concussions in a 6N game than a championship season.
It's like expecting judo to have the same protocols as boxing.
Quote from: dublin7 on August 08, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
They are suspending players for high tackles and forcing players to leave the pitch for assessments if they get a head injury or a hit to the head. That's way ahead of football and GAA who don't have any policies in place for head injuries and even if they do they're certainly not enforced. Players being taken off with head injuries or after getting hit on the head are the exception rather than the rule.
Changes do need to be made to the rules to make the game less about physicality and speed up the game
Absolute nonsense. Hard to even know where to start with that.
Quote from: APM on August 08, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 08, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
They are suspending players for high tackles and forcing players to leave the pitch for assessments if they get a head injury or a hit to the head. That's way ahead of football and GAA who don't have any policies in place for head injuries and even if they do they're certainly not enforced. Players being taken off with head injuries or after getting hit on the head are the exception rather than the rule.
Changes do need to be made to the rules to make the game less about physicality and speed up the game
Absolute nonsense. Hard to even know where to start with that.
Clearly you're too intelligent to do so. Fair enough
Quote from: dublin7 on August 08, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
They are suspending players for high tackles and forcing players to leave the pitch for assessments if they get a head injury or a hit to the head. That's way ahead of football and GAA who don't have any policies in place for head injuries and even if they do they're certainly not enforced. Players being taken off with head injuries or after getting hit on the head are the exception rather than the rule.
Changes do need to be made to the rules to make the game less about physicality and speed up the game
That's just not true. Gaa have clear guidelines regarding head injuries which are enforced , where gaa differs from rugby is that statistically there is much less risk of head injury in gaa. Scrums rucks phases direct collision between 20 stone plus professional athletes at speed . It's ironic how coaching looks like it's reducing the risk of playing errors but increasing the risk of injury. Ethos around schools rugby and participation also is questionable , with the existence of "an old school tie" mentality absent in most other sports . Encouragement of Bulking up for youth players most of whom won't end up playing adult rugby anyway. Having been a rugby fan , I don't see where it's going , and can't watch it anymore
Quote from: 6th sam on August 08, 2021, 02:49:05 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 08, 2021, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
Rugby isn't "doing more than most". As a sport it continues to bury its head in the sand that the size of the pitch and number of players on it, innately encourages players to bulk up to the point that they're all uncoiled weapons.
They are suspending players for high tackles and forcing players to leave the pitch for assessments if they get a head injury or a hit to the head. That's way ahead of football and GAA who don't have any policies in place for head injuries and even if they do they're certainly not enforced. Players being taken off with head injuries or after getting hit on the head are the exception rather than the rule.
Changes do need to be made to the rules to make the game less about physicality and speed up the game
That's just not true. Gaa have clear guidelines regarding head injuries which are enforced , where gaa differs from rugby is that statistically there is much less risk of head injury in gaa. Scrums rucks phases direct collision between 20 stone plus professional athletes at speed . It's ironic how coaching looks like it's reducing the risk of playing errors but increasing the risk of injury. Ethos around schools rugby and participation also is questionable , with the existence of "an old school tie" mentality absent in most other sports . Encouragement of Bulking up for youth players most of whom won't end up playing adult rugby anyway. Having been a rugby fan , I don't see where it's going , and can't watch it anymore
They're not enforced at senior level. Maybe they are at underage. It's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt, then they'll be forced to take the issue seriously
It's a contact sport played outdoors in all weather conditions.
Therefore it's always only a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt; whether that be a head injury, a broken back or neck, a ruptured spleen, a heart attack, and so on. It's only a matter of time until someone gets struck by lightning or hit by a hailstone the size of a tennis ball.
But you keep pretending to yourself that a sport that has practically zero head collisions per game needs some protracted laws and sanctions to prevent freak occurrences from happening. It obviously helps you turn a blind eye to the malaise that is swamping rugby, so stick at it.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 03:19:52 PM
It's a contact sport played outdoors in all weather conditions.
Therefore it's always only a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt; whether that be a head injury, a broken back or neck, a ruptured spleen, a heart attack, and so on. It's only a matter of time until someone gets struck by lightning or hit by a hailstone the size of a tennis ball.
But you keep pretending to yourself that a sport that has practically zero head collisions per game needs some protracted laws and sanctions to prevent freak occurrences from happening. It obviously helps you turn a blind eye to the malaise that is swamping rugby, so stick at it.
What are you waffling about? Rugby officials are clearly trying to deal with head injuries and focus on player safety
How exactly the rugby board are expected to deal with a player getting a heart attack is beyond me, but maybe you can tell me what the GAA protocols are for this
Clearly you don't give a f**k about head injuries,but it is a serious issue. How many times do you see a a player in GAA get a serious bang to the head and be allowed play on? Like I said in GAA (at senior level) you're expected to carry on ,while in rugby you're straight off the pitch
How many times do you see a a player in GAA get a serious bang to the head and be allowed play on?
That's my exact point. It almost never happens.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 08, 2021, 09:38:36 PM
How many times do you see a a player in GAA get a serious bang to the head and be allowed play on?
That's my exact point. It almost never happens.
So because you think it never happens you don't need a policy or plan for it?
I suppose that's like car/life insurance. Why bother paying for it when you'll probably never need it.
Jesus, you're hard work.
You are currently attempting to deflect the problems in a sport in which head injuries are rife, by condemning the protocols of another sport in which head injuries are exceptionally rare.
This is actually insane.
Could never understand lions tour, really odd concept
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 08, 2021, 10:32:19 PM
Could never understand lions tour, really odd concept
I understand it when it was in the amateur era when none of the home nations had any real chance of beating the All Blacks and Springboks. Now in the professional era, the home nations should really be pushing to compete and beat them more regularly on their own.
Quote from: michaelg on August 08, 2021, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 08, 2021, 10:32:19 PM
Could never understand lions tour, really odd concept
I understand it when it was in the amateur era when none of the home nations had any real chance of beating the All Blacks and Springboks. Now in the professional era, the home nations should really be pushing to compete and beat them more regularly on their own.
Yeah , very odd in today's age and I like rugby but just can't get into the lion's thing, almost looks like a cool kids club in tour
I watched some of that game (it was on in the house I was visiting) and my god what a pile of shite. I cannot see the attraction of that game at all, unless you are a giant muscle bound muck savage and no good at any other sport why would you go near it.
Quote from: Itchy on August 08, 2021, 11:11:42 PM
I watched some of that game (it was on in the house I was visiting) and my god what a pile of shite. I cannot see the attraction of that game at all, unless you are a giant muscle bound muck savage and no good at any other sport why would you go near it.
I have watched the sport since I was 5, I even played it for 2 years. Unfortunately the above synopsis of where the game is at now, is the reason people will start to switch off. Big mongs battering each other, 20 M box kicks, penalties that are questionable. No running with the ball. Its utter scutter.
Overall it was poor, the South Africans play that way all the time, the Lions are known for expansive, positive rugby but we saw very little of that.
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 11:27:18 AM
Overall it was poor, the South Africans play that way all the time, the Lions are known for expansive, positive rugby but we saw very little of that.
Gatland has never played that type of rugby even with Wales. Loves the crash ball does our Gats.
Quote from: Rudi on August 09, 2021, 11:11:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 08, 2021, 11:11:42 PM
I watched some of that game (it was on in the house I was visiting) and my god what a pile of shite. I cannot see the attraction of that game at all, unless you are a giant muscle bound muck savage and no good at any other sport why would you go near it.
I have watched the sport since I was 5, I even played it for 2 years. Unfortunately the above synopsis of where the game is at now, is the reason people will start to switch off. Big mongs battering each other, 20 M box kicks, penalties that are questionable. No running with the ball. Its utter scutter.
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat these days. Still enjoy going to the odd game (more for the stout and craic) but it is pretty much unwatchable imo
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/17/rassie-erasmus-banned-rugby-two-months-match-days-next-october/
Rassie Erasmus' reputation in tatters after World Rugby bans Springboks director and demands public apology
Erasmus guilty of six misconduct charges, including threatening referee Nic Berry on Lions tour, and hit with two-month ban from all rugby
By
Daniel Schofield,
DEPUTY RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT
17 November 2021 • 8:36pm
Rassie Erasmus walks past Nic Berry during the Lions Test series - Rassie Erasmus' reputation in tatters after World Rugby bans Springboks boss and demands public apology
Rassie Erasmus is now banned from being involved with the Springboks on matchdays for 10 months CREDIT: AP
South Africa's director of rugby Rassie Erasmus' reputation lies in tatters after he was banned from all rugby activity for two months for his "premeditated" and "egregious" attack on referee Nic Berry.
Erasmus will miss South Africa's match against England on Saturday and has also been banned from being involved with the Springboks on matchdays for 10 months. He has also been ordered to apologise to Berry after being found guilty of six counts of misconduct by World Rugby's independent misconduct committee.
Their decision means the former Springboks coach cannot play any part in Saturday's Test at Twickenham. He was banned from all rugby activities until next year and will not be able to attend a Springboks game in any official capacity, or engage with media on the day of a match, until after Sept 30, 2022.
The committee found that 49-year-old Erasmus carried out a threat made to Berry that he would publish video footage criticising the official.
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The charges emanated from a 62-minute video that appeared online in July, where Erasmus blasted Berry following South Africa's loss to the Lions in the first Test.
The six charges found against Erasmus by an independent conduct committee were that he:
Threatened a match official that unless a requested meeting took place, he would publish footage containing clips criticising the match official's performance and then making good on that threat; published or permitted to be published the Erasmus Video containing numerous comments that were either abusive, insulting and/or offensive to match officials;
Attacked, disparaged and/or denigrated the game and the match officials;
Did not accept or observe the authority and decisions of match officials;
Published or caused to be published criticism of the manner in which a match official handled a match;
Engaged in conduct or activity that may impair public confidence in the integrity and good character of match official(s); and
Brought the game into disrepute when he published or caused to be published the Erasmus Video.
SA Rugby said on Wednesday night that it and Erasmus will appeal the charges.
Both the World Cup-winning coach and the South African Rugby Union, which was fined £20,000, have been ordered to issue a public apology to Berry, who accused Erasmus of conducting a "character assassination" of him. Despite the appeal, Erasmus will still be suspended from performing his 'water boy' duties at Twickenham on Saturday.
The verdict, issued by World Rugby's independent misconduct committee, was scathing of Erasmus' conduct and lack of remorse in releasing a 62-minute video detailing perceived mistakes by Berry during the Lions' first Test victory against South Africa. "There is a difference between feedback and abuse," the panel of Christopher Quinlan QC, Nigel Hampton QC and Judge Mike Mika stated. "This video was not feedback... it was an ad hominem attack, which as we have said lacked detached analysis or balance."
While the panel acknowledged that coaches influencing referees is a part of the game up to a "limited point", it said "that line was crossed in the actions of Mr Erasmus and SA Rugby during this B&I Lions Series."
Perhaps the most serious charge relates to Erasmus' threat to publicly release the video his analyst, Russel Belter, had compiled of Berry's perceived mistakes in the first Test which were overlaid with Erasmus' disparaging commentary. Incensed by Lions head coach Warren Gatland's questioning of the appointment of South African Marius Jonker as television match official, Erasmus had demanded a meeting with Berry immediately after the match, sending the following email:
"...just a heads up from our side!!= we feel the pressure which the lions attempted to put on your team of 4 through media did actually work well for them!! While we will be doing the same this week I think you will note that ours is more factual and honest!!"
Placeholder image for youtube video: IlXBosc7Okg
This was then followed by a further message to Berry: "This will not get into the media - just have a chat to me tonight".
While Erasmus denied leaking the video, which was not password protected, he did share it with the Springbok players and staff as well as its intended recipients, Berry, World Rugby's high-performance director and its head of match officials Joël Jutge. The committee found: "We simply do not accept that a day or so after he threatened to go public on match officiating, the leaking of that video was a coincidence."
The contents of the video, "was not an objective analysis of the refereeing seeking explanations, discussion, correction. Rather it lacked perspective, impartial analysis or balance. In places it is sarcastic. We have selected some examples, but that is all they are".
There was also the serious insinuation that Berry had treated the captains, Siya Kolisi and Alun Wyn Jones, differently on account of their race. This was an allegation that Kolisi repeated in a press conference before the second Test. The SARU was charged with permitting and failing to discipline Kolisi and assistant coach Mzwandile Stick to make such comments.
The panel found: "If there be doubt, we remove it: we recognise the exceptional sensitivity of race in South Africa. We are sure that none of the match officials deliberately or consciously treated Siya Kolisi differently from any other player. Nothing they did was motivated by race. That RE believed his captain was treated differently does not get close to justifying the content of his video."
While Erasmus believed his actions were justified following Gatland's questioning of Jonker's appointment they carried a heavy human cost on Berry, which he made plain in his testimony before the committee.
"I considered officiating in a Lions tour comparable with that in a World Cup," Berry said. "The appointment is a honour which few achieve. However, due to the actions of Mr Erasmus, my family and I have endured a significant amount of distress and we will only have negative memories of the whole experience.
"I feel that Mr Erasmus engaged in a character assassination of me on social media. I have spent many years trying to build my reputation as an international referee and in the course of his video which was posted online, Mr Erasmus has caused it immeasurable damage."
Yet Erasmus, who changed roles from head coach to director of rugby after the Springboks' 2019 World Cup victory, showed no regret for his actions or the toll they took on Berry. Asked if he felt any part of his video was insulting towards Berry, Erasmus replied: "Well, if it's insulting because you had a bad game and i'm pointing that out there, then it is insulting."
In summarising its punishment, which took into account previous bans handed out to now England head coach Eddie Jones, the panel concluded: "We have no hesitation in concluding that RE's misconduct is much more serious than any of the cases cited to us. This was an especially serious and egregious example of offending of this kind. It involved premediated, multiple abusive and insulting comments and attacks on the officials' integrity in the course of that 62-minute video."
Rassie won't care. The end justifies the means. He manged to soften up the officiating enough to swing the series.
It might feed his paranoia
Quote from: Don Cockburn on November 18, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
Rassie won't care. The end justifies the means. He manged to soften up the officiating enough to swing the series.
He'll care when he gets hit with a defamation of character suit!
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on November 19, 2021, 02:54:54 AM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on November 18, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
Rassie won't care. The end justifies the means. He manged to soften up the officiating enough to swing the series.
He'll care when he gets hit with a defamation of character suit!
can we go to the tmo on that ffs
Andy Farrell speaking now at his unveiling as Head Coach.
The biggest concern has to be how shit the Aussies currently are, that could damage the concept.
Expect nothing other than fully supportive comments on the Lions concept to follow. ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on January 11, 2024, 01:20:12 PMAndy Farrell speaking now at his unveiling as Head Coach.
The biggest concern has to he how shit the Aussies currently are, that could damage the concept.
Expect nothing other than fully supportive comments on the Lions concept to follow. ;D
Can hardly wait for the Irish 'fans' down under to do some cringey sh*t on video ;)
There kicked it off for you Benny ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on January 11, 2024, 01:20:12 PMAndy Farrell speaking now at his unveiling as Head Coach.
The biggest concern has to he how shit the Aussies currently are, that could damage the concept.
Expect nothing other than fully supportive comments on the Lions concept to follow. ;D
See the English are trying to claim Farrell.
The best to revive the Lions concept would have been to out Clive Woodward in charge, thus ensuring very closely fought matches against the Aussies.